Friday 2010-07-09 Dev. update and Discussion Thread

[C_G]

Originally Posted by Il2Pongo

Don't forget the beetle blight, no shire with the beetle blight will have blooms in summer. Unless they got the pesticide shipment, which the Germans can intercept. And therefore win the war. Because no self respecting Spit pilot will land at an airfield that is one rgb value out from the expected shade of grass. The AI pilots will assume its a ruse and strafe the field.

That's the spirit! Let's go further down the rabbit hole! Adding insect infestation should only be a little sub-routine to add

[brando]

Originally Posted by Il2Pongo

Don't forget the beetle blight, no shire with the beetle blight will have blooms in summer. Unless they got the pesticide shipment, which the Germans can intercept. And therefore win the war. Because no self respecting Spit pilot will land at an airfield that is one rgb value out from the expected shade of grass. The AI pilots will assume its a ruse and strafe the field.

I guess it means we can argue about whether the mandatory crop-dusting airplane is over- or under-modeled!

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by C_G

Clearly what the engine should do is calculate the quantities of precipitation and sunshine received with respect to a calendar of seasonal crop planting/harvesting and extrapolate the level of colour saturation and height of the grass and crops.

It should also take into account whether Farmer Jarge has decided to plant more wheat rather than mustard seed depending upon the predictions of the 1939 Almanac and war-time production priorities. It should estimate the likelihood of Farmer Jarge having taken in the crop depending upon the prior days' weather, local ale festival dates (two day hangover recovery-time), and whether his ewes came down with foot-and-mouth disease (the likelihood of this would have to be determined by a separate but reklated algorithm, obviously) and precluded him from attending to his crops. In addition, the algorithm used to calculate the breakdown/wear rate of aircraft could be applied to Farmer Jarge's farm equipment and horses/oxen to assist in the determination of field colour and length.

Finally, it would be nice to see derelict cars/poles/other obstructions placed in Farmer Jarge's South-East English fields in response to mandated precautions against German invasion gliders. Naturally, the number of said obstructions should gradually increase over time as it would be a total immersion killer to see the fields suddenly populated overnight with obstructions that had not been there the previous day.

While I'm thinking of it, it would be nice if the trees could bud/bloom/blossom in spring in accordance with their type and, conversely, change colour and lose their leaves in the fall in accordance with their type, the weather, the altitude of said trees, and local microclimates.

I hope this is not too much to ask, Oleg. All I really want is for the most realistic flight simulator possible. One which would be virtually identical to the real world, only I would be 6'1" and have a slight sexy scottish burr notwithstanding an education at Eton.

.. and phases of the moon, plant growth should be correct according to bio-dynamic principles.

More importantly the fishies should be correct with accurate swim models and respond appropriately to the bait used by the player

[AndyJWest]

Since Oleg is modelling the entire globe, I assume he will be allowing for continental drift in his maps too.

[leggit]

Originally Posted by zapatista

i hope you were referring to the sky when you said the colour range was right, not the scenery

in the most recent screenshots with the low flying cluster of german aircraft over Brittan, the colour of trees and scrubs (and their spacing), looks to me more like the french maquis in a long bleaching summer, then the lush english vegetation in southern england (where i lived for 6 yrs)

since oleg repeatedly stated this is wip and vegetation colours and even trees shapes and types are not final, its not really worth debating if its right or wrong and i am not really concerned

somebody in the last couple of weeks posted 6 or 8 photographs of southern englands scenery (hedges and roads ?), and those colours were spot on from the way i remember them

here they are: posted by major-setback a few weeks ago: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...hedges&page=15

the brightest green ones could have been after a couple of rainy days and then some hot/warm days, and the more washed out greens (still much brighter and more colourfull then the recent ones seen in oleg's latest screenshot) would have been after a week or 2 of summer weather without any rain. maybe we need to have a wip-around and get oleg a package deal for a weekend in southern england, after all it is summer there now and the colors should be about right. anybody here from southern england that can comment more on these colors ?

Sigh....1st of all let me say i've lived in southern england all my life (West Sussex) so i'm well aware of how it looks. you talk about colour as if its a fixed state. It's not it changes constantly. Colour or your perception of colour is determined by all sorts of factors; light weather the seasons time of day. You "remember" southern Britain as lush and green yes it can be, right now because we haven't had any rain in a few weeks its looking rather dry and sunburnt. the grass is all yellow and burnt etc. my point is what you think something should look like and what would be a more realistic depicition are sometimes very different...most people look but only a few see.

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by leggit

Sigh....1st of all let me say i've lived in southern england all my life (West Sussex) so i'm well aware of how it looks. you talk about colour as if its a fixed state. It's not it changes constantly. Colour or your perception of colour is determined by all sorts of factors; light weather the seasons time of day. You "remember" southern Britain as lush and green yes it can be, right now because we haven't had any rain in a few weeks its looking rather dry and sunburnt. the grass is all yellow and burnt etc. my point is what you think something should look like and what would be a more realistic depicition are sometimes very different...most people look but only a few see.

Ditto, lived in Kent all my life, and besides from some of the evergreens and areas where there may be more precipitation, leggit is spot on. I mean, we've had really hot weather recently, and then the other day it rains and there's an absence of sunlight and bingo, the grass is already greener

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by leggit

Sigh...

you poor thing, all a bit much for you ?

Originally Posted by leggit

You "remember" southern Britain as lush and green yes it can be, right now because we haven't had any rain in a few weeks its looking rather dry and sunburnt. the grass is all yellow and burnt etc.

yes of course the countryside in england can dry out due to weeks of no rain, but no that doesnt mean that part of england suddenly turns into scenery that resembles the french maquis in the south of france during summer

looking closer at the pictures again, to try and identify what exactly makes the scenery in that recent shot look more southern-france then southern-england to me (cluster of low flying german bombers): i think it is mainly the color of the tree foliage being to light, it should be a much richer lively brighter green (and no, not fluro green like we had a few months ago).

Originally Posted by leggit

my point is what you think something should look like and what would be a more realistic depicition are sometimes very different...most people look but only a few see.

no need for escaping into psychobabble

unless the person is color blind or has some other visual defect, seeing and interpreting the landscape color spectrum around you in real life is no magical mystery tour requiring profound interpretation, it simply is what it is and can be accurately reproduced in visual media like video or photographs.

note: oleg repeatedly stated this is wip and vegetation colours and even trees shapes and types are not final
note 2; the same screenshot i am saying has to much of a bleached look to it in tree/foliage (not the agricultural fields themselves) also for the 1e time starts to show some combined BoB elements of scenery, low flying planes, houses, roads, fields, trees, forest, hedges (yes even a monthy python shrubbery !). oleg posted the picture for that reason i suspect, and it is good to see the project coming together (looks good !)

[philip.ed]

Zapatista, don't get angry because you're wrong. He is 100% correct; as much as the colours will be affected by rain, there was a great absence of this in the major part of the BoB with the weather changing in July to one of the hottest summers in History. If you still live in Blighty, you'd know about this. No need to quote me and explain how I am wrong, both leggit and I are correct, and whilst the colours would be affected by precipitation, an absence of this means that the grass would look exactly like I can see outside. Even with some rain in the past day, the grass is still dry and yellowed.

Also, although the shots posted show all these features together, a set of screens posted last year showed mostly all of the listed features even with smoking chimneys, so apart some very WIP terrain textures we haven't really been shown much more.

[reflected]

Hmmm...the terrain looks very bright indeed, as if it was "Storm of War: Battle for Middle Earth"

Then again, it might be totally realistic. Unfortunately, I'm not British. Can anyone from the Misty Albion tell me how close this is to reality?

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

and whilst the colours would be affected by precipitation, an absence of this means that the grass would look exactly like I can see outside. Even with some rain in the past day, the grass is still dry and yellowed.

why is it so hard to actually read the text that was written, instead of replacing it with your own preconceived idea's and then arguing with yourself pretending it is what i said ?

grasses and crop plants react relatively quickly to drought or rain, trees dont (roots are much deeper and able to still access water for a longer period), and it is trees that in that screenshot mostly look to bleached/light imo . if you are in indeed in kent, just go out for a walk in the countryside, and have a look at the color of the tree foliage and hedges. obviously they dont go brown or bleached in the summer (yet grasses and crops can). only in the last stages, when the tree is dying, will that actually happen

philip.ed, dont get confused by seeing forum threads as chat fest, nobody needs to agree with you (or me). other posters comment in this thread are about comparing current scenery colors/tones/shades with real life events (as much as we can do so for a ww2 period), and for that it will need photographs/video from real life, not opinion (be this yours or mine). if you want to be productive and live in kent and it is a long dry summer there again, maybe go out with a decent digital camera and go take some landscape/scenery shots to post here.