Friday 2010-05-07 Dev. update and Discussion Thread

[gibxxi]

Seeing as I notice that the camouflage texture and insignias are independent of each other will the following be possible?

A real immersion killer on all WWII flight Sims since the dawn of the genre has been the lack of individuality between aircraft of the same type, from the same squadron.

Taking the Hurricane Mk.I screenshots already posted as an example, it bears the code "DT-A" on it's fuselage. As your probably aware, during the BoB, and indeed throughout WWII, the RAF used the first two letters of this code to denote the squadron, and the final letter to denote the individual aircraft from that squadron.

Therefore, will individual aircraft bear different letters to others from the same squadron, i.e:

DT-A,
DT-B,
DT-C... etc, etc.

Not only would add some personalization to the player's aircraft (possibly customizable by them), but it would also lay to rest the "cloned" feeling one gets when viewing multiple aircraft from the same squadron.

If each letter of the alphabet (For the RAF fighters) and all the numbers / rank insignia displayed on the aircraft were customizable by the player, it may also allow WWII historical squadrons to dress up their planes in the way their real-life counterparts were actually presented.

With only 26 letters, 10 numerals (0-9) and a certain number of rank insignia for the German planes, it would not require a massive amount of graphics to do.

Maybe also provide font templates with the mod tools after launch to that people can customize their planes in line with those of their favourite squadron.

I'm not someone who has played any of the other IL-2 titles so I'm unaware if this has been implemented in prior games. Also, I apologize if this has already been suggested.

Seeing as Oleg has already admitted to being a perfectionist, I thought I'd highlight this often neglected area of customization, as I would also welcome such an eye for detail.



Edit: Also, will ALL historically accurate insignia make it onto the German planes? or is this too touchy an issue? I know other developers have avoided this issue in the past by "omitting" certain insignia. I think you know where I'm going with this question. I only ask in the interests of historical accuracy.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Until countries like Germany relax their laws concerning symbols like the swastika I think Olegs company is constrained to restrict symbols in his sims. These countries represent a large part of the market for the sim and it would be bad business if he made it impossible to sell his product in those countries.

[Rant mode=ON]
I personally don't have a problem with seeing these symbols in a historical context, but have had to ban my step-daughters skinhead ex-boy friend from wearing hate symbols in my house (Luckily he's no longer on the scene-hmmm wonder why???). Any Nazi fanboy is a dweeb in my book and needs to get out and get a life and start seeing the value in human diversity rather than blaming everyone else but them selves for their personal failings.
[Rant mode=OFF]

The strange thing is that same laws in Germany used to restrict anti-nazi symbols (maybe they still do???) such as a swastika crossed out by a circle and line as well. Go Figure?

For those interested in historical accuracy I'm sure there will be an abundance of community created skins available.

cheers!

[philip.ed]

gib, if you have played BoB2, it has a multiskin with nearly every skin seen in the BoB. As you say, this multiskin has the individual codes etc of the planes, which is a real immersion factor when playing the sim

[Blackdog_kt]

There are already individual aircraft numbers in IL2, but the rest of the skin in the stock campaigns is usually "cloned" for aircraft of the same squadron. Think of it as the skin being the base for all of the squad's aircraft, with individual stencils applied for the aircraft codes.

As for other insignia, a lot of squads have their own and in many cases these are already represented in IL2. So, thus far i really have no doubt that what you're asking about is going to be included in the new sim as well since it was in the old one to begin with. However, what will really set individual planes apart in the new sim will be the application of weathering on a separate layer.
I guess the base camo/skin will still be the same and each plane will have its own code, but with weathering applied the new planes will look factory fresh while the old ones look worn out, with flaked paint and long exhaust and gun port streaks. In IL2 you have to manually change a skin yourself to include such things, but in the next series of sims the aircraft will age on its own as you fly missions.

For the axis insignia now, the fact that Germany outlaws the use of the swastika means that probably any european distribution of the title will not depict it. As explained before, this is done so that the game can be sold in Germany but there will probably be modifications or custom textures added later on by the users, just like it happened with IL2. As for luftwaffe squadron insignia, there's a guy from the community here in these forums that has taken it upon himself to research each and every one of them in order to ensure maximum historical accuracy.

The short answer about the things you ask for is, we'll get some of it because it was already in IL2 and not having it in SoW would be a step backwards, we'll get some new things too from Oleg's team and their new technologies, community members are providing extra feedback and material to fill in the blanks and whatever you don't get on release someone from the community will probably provide later on. So, sooner or later you'll probably get everything you ask for markings-wise

[gibxxi]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

Until countries like Germany relax their laws concerning symbols like the swastika I think Olegs company is constrained to restrict symbols in his sims. These countries represent a large part of the market for the sim and it would be bad business if he made it impossible to sell his product in those countries.

Agreed. I was hesitant in mentioning it, as the discussion of the subject usually descends into a hate-filled slanging match on most forums I've read. But like I said, in the interests of historical accuracy only, i would welcome the immersion factor of their inclusion.

Even an invisible "placeholder" so enterprising graphics artists can add it after-market will suffice. As several have commented, these things usually get added by the 3rd party modders quite quickly so it's not a big issue for me.

I noticed the unique squadron codes in BoB-II, yes, that must be the only time I've seen it modeled from the box. Nice touch. I come from an on-line WWII MMO that will soon be shutting it's doors for good, so up until this point, I've never seen the need to purchase a commercial flight sim. That's all going to change now, and even if that wasn't the case, this sim looks so damn beautiful, from the screens that have already been posted, I'll be buying it whatever the price is. The only other sim I've ever purchased was European Air War, simply because it had a "BoB" campaign. I'm English, and fiercely patriotic about the BoB in general, so SoW is like a dream come true for me.



Nice inclusion with the Matilda Mk.II (favourite tank) as well, but trim down those Mudguards Oleg, those were very seldom used in practice, most commonly replaced with shorter versions, or removed altogether.

I also notice from the recently posted video, that the Dornier Do-17 is equipped with Daimler Benz DB-601's. From my research, the Do-17Z and Do-217E used the BMW-801A 1,580hp, 18-cylinder radial engine, an earlier version of the engine used in the Fw-190A. Not sure if this is an oversight, or something that was present on the original blueprints, but i do remember reading about another aircraft (might of even been the Fw-190) that was originally going to be fitted with DB-601's, but because of a shortage in DB-601 engines due to Bf-109 production, it too was converted to using radial engines at the design stage.

Edit: Just had a look in one of my WWII aircraft books, and it states that initially, the Do-217 was fitted with the Do-215's DB-601 in-line engines, but that the fitting of the BMW 801 radial transformed the aircraft. Quite what they mean, I don't know, but I would assume they mean much better performance with the BMW-801's.

Regards.

[Flyby]

I look forward to the super-duper cloud detail. As a mission builder, will I be able to set cloud ceilings in SoW-BoB (and maybe set turbulence too)? I think it would be great to have a couple of flights of fighters sneak across the channel, flying under low clouds to deliver a surprise attack on an enemy airfield. Be nice to duck into a low cloud layer. Will it be possible set this in the mission editor?
thanks!
Flyby out
PS Oleg, how's the game conference going. Wouldn't hurt my feeling if you posted a video update showing what's going on.

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by gibxxi

I also notice from the recently posted video, that the Dornier Do-17 is equipped with Daimler Benz DB-601's.

What makes you think, it is Do-17?

Originally Posted by gibxxi

From my research, the Do-17Z and Do-217E used the BMW-801A 1,580hp, 18-cylinder radial engine, an earlier version of the engine used in the Fw190A.

May be, you should research more, to find that Do-17Z was equipped with Bramo-323 9-cylinder engine.

[gibxxi]

I stand corrected on the Do-17Z



Regards.

[Pierre@]

And a "Dornier Do 17 equipped with Daimler Benz DB-601s" ...is a Do 215

[gibxxi]

So i just found out. just saw the screenshots of the Do-17Z in one of the other threads.

Never seen any photos of the Do-215 and i've been a WWII buff for a long time. Guess you learn something new every day. That'll teach me to panick-post, lol.



Regards.