Friday 2010-05-07 Dev. update and Discussion Thread

[Zorin]

Made a quick scan from Mr. Vasco's book to prove my point about the position of the ring antenna and aerial.

1. Photograph of a Bf 110 C rear fuselage interior



2. Screenshot with marked new positions

[Flutter]

Long time lurking, first time post.
Nice update Oleg, however, I have trouble with the screenshot of the Tiger-Moth inside the hangar.
The Hangar does not appear to cast a shadow onto the Tiger Moth, and (worse) the Tiger-Moth does not appear to create any shadow on the ground (I would expect a blurry, but darker shadow underneath the Moth. My guess is that the code allows for a maximum shadow strength (all direct light occluded), after which only ambient light lights the object. This works ok. outdoors, but here the result is that the maximum level of darkness inside a building (6 km down a coal mine?) equals the ambient lighting level outside. The whole issue may stem from spending too much time inside hangars though...
Flutter

[Pierre@]

+1, Zorin.
Look also at the "Fliegerdenkmal" pictures on page 138 of John Vasco's book you are mentioning: "Bf 110 C,D and E - An Illustrated Study" published by Classic in 2008 with great profiles by Fernando Estanislau.
They clearly show the D/F loop antenna was positionned between fuselage frames 10 and 11. (By the way, these numbers, 1 to 18, were stencilled only on port side).

[=KAG=Bersrk]

Originally Posted by Zorin

Made a quick scan from Mr. Vasco's book to prove my point about the position of the ring antenna and aerial.

1. Photograph of a Bf 110 C rear fuselage interior



2. Screenshot with marked new positions

@ Zorin and others:

1. Main problem is not in C-7 and stuff... Problem (or not - from different points of veiw) is that C-4 (and C-7. made from C-4) was NOT a main and usual model of Bf110 in Battle of Britain. It was actually a war of C-2 and D-0/3 Most part of C-4 gone for night fighter regiments. Loss lists of ZG2, ZG26 and ZG76 together with losslists of V./LG1 confirm that.

2. About aircraft itself. As far as I know, C-7 was chosen by MG for fill the "Bf110 Jabo" gap with minimal reworks. And, it was done with elements of "early" or "factory built" Bf110C-7's, and with elements (like Pitot tube and enlarged trims) of "late" or "field" Bf110C-7's, wich were actually mainly Bf110C-1/2/4 "in virginity". There are many photos, BoB period, of Bf110C-7 with VERY different upgrades, like armored windglass, armorplate for pilot e.t.c.

3. Yes, making Bf110D-3 for "Jabo role", wich is closer to history, would be great, but it would need to add some Bf110D-7 elements and rework rear fuselage section. If that would be done, it would need a several weeks to do. All we know, that time is very strickt. So...

4. Let we stay away from pitot and trims on Bf110C-7. We should better ask to show it on Bf110C-4 image. THAT would be critical.

5. Ring antenna, really, must be moved back to 1/2 of fuselage section.

[Zorin]

Originally Posted by =KAG=Bersrk

...

2. About aircraft itself. As far as I know, C-7 was chosen by MG for fill the "Bf110 Jabo" gap with minimal reworks. And, it was done with elements of "early" or "factory built" Bf110C-7's, and with elements (like Pitot tube and enlarged trims) of "late" or "field" Bf110C-7's, wich were actually mainly Bf110C-1/2/4 "in virginity". There are many photos, BoB period, of Bf110C-7 with VERY different upgrades, like armored windglass, armorplate for pilot e.t.c.

...

Yet there can be not one photo that shows these features, large pitot tube and enlarged trim tab, because they were introduced with the E series after the BoB. Just to make that clear. Even though there were a number of modifications, these were not among them during BoB and therefor are WRONG.

[robtek]

@Zorin
it seems that you are right, but realistically you can hope for a change in a later patch!
Right now it is very more important to deliver a finished game!
Those details are important for screenshots and movies, not for the regular gameplay.

[Zorin]

Originally Posted by robtek

@Zorin
it seems that you are right, but realistically you can hope for a change in a later patch!
Right now it is very more important to deliver a finished game!
Those details are important for screenshots and movies, not for the regular gameplay.

All I hope for, at this stage, is an acknowledgment that they made mistakes and are willing to fix them.

I respect Oleg's stance that he wants prove via official documents, but in this case it is like I said: "The sky is blue." and he asks for official documents to prove it. It is a plain fact, dictated by logic, that features that where first build in the winter 1940/1941, can't be found on a summer 1940 plane.

[=KAG=Bersrk]

Originally Posted by Zorin

All I hope for, at this stage, is an acknowledgment that they made mistakes and are willing to fix them.
..It is a plain fact, dictated by logic, that features that where first build in the winter 1940/1941, can't be found on a summer 1940 plane.

1. Good point.

2. Agree.
First Bf110C-7 (factory built - only 39 airctafts) - produced from july 1940 to september 1940.
First 8 Bf110E-2 produced in october 1940, and largely went in series on december 1940.

At the same time, around december, most of survived C-2's, C-4's were repaired and upgraded to C-7, and got it name in official documents.

I accept MG position about Bf110C-4. It was not a main "zerstorer" of BoB, but... It is chosen, and "let it be".
From september 39 to july 1940 there were 359 Bf110C-2 built. Also, ~200 Bf110D-0/1/2/3 were built from march to november 1940. And we must not forget about 50 new Bf110E-1, wich saw operational in october - november 1940 during Battle of Britain. And all these bunch are against "dead-end model" Bf110C-4, produced from may 1940 to september 1940, in number of 155 aircrafts.

I can list a several ZerstorerGruppen, wich operated and lost in action mainly Bf110C-2, or Bf110D, up to 80% of all losses.

[Zorin]

Originally Posted by =KAG=Bersrk

1. Good point.

2. Agree.
First Bf110C-7 (factory built - only 39 airctafts) - produced from july 1940 to september 1940.
First 8 Bf110E-2 produced in october 1940, and largely went in series on december 1940.

At the same time, around december, most of survived C-2's, C-4's were repaired and upgraded to C-7, and got it name in official documents.

I accept MG position about Bf110C-4. It was not a main "zerstorer" of BoB, but... It is chosen, and "let it be".
From september 39 to july 1940 there were 359 Bf110C-2 built. Also, ~200 Bf110D-0/1/2/3 were built from march to november 1940. And we must not forget about 50 new Bf110E-1, wich saw operational in october - november 1940 during Battle of Britain. And all these bunch are against "dead-end model" Bf110C-4, produced from may 1940 to september 1940, in number of 155 aircrafts.

I can list a several ZerstorerGruppen, wich operated and lost in action mainly Bf110C-2, or Bf110D, up to 80% of all losses.

See, this is what I meant with well of wisdom. Oleg has it right here at his disposal and he isn't making good use of it, apparently. If he only had asked the right questions prior to the point of choosing the aircraft types and starting their build process ...