i 153 in real

[Soviet Ace]

Originally Posted by Panzergranate

I've just checked, yes you're right, Cyclones.

The B-239 was 1,100 HP and some 1,200 HP.

The B-139 had a top speed of 292 MPH, whilst the B-239 and B-339 both made 324 MPH in level flight, the same as a Hurricane.

The B-139 didn't have the full length "Green House" canopy.

It has the best visibility for any fighter I've flown in WW2 sims so far, with the Bf-109 being probally the worst I've experienced.

The Fins regard the Buffalo with the same affection as the British have for the Spitfire. It was regarded as their best fighter even after they received Bf-109s.

The I-153 is a most interesting aircraft to look at, I have a model kit of one, and 3 are still flying today.

Where are you getting this 1,100 and 1,200 hp from? All I've found, in all my sources is 940-50hp for all three of them (Buffalos). There is no Cyclone, that powered a Brewster Buffalo in WW2 on the Finnish side; that pumped out 1,1-1,200hp. They were all either R-1820-34 which pumped out either 940-50hp, just like the I-15bis, I-153, and I-16 M62-63 Engines.

[Panzergranate]

Originally Posted by Soviet Ace

Where are you getting this 1,100 and 1,200 hp from? All I've found, in all my sources is 940-50hp for all three of them (Buffalos). There is no Cyclone, that powered a Brewster Buffalo in WW2 on the Finnish side; that pumped out 1,1-1,200hp. They were all either R-1820-34 which pumped out either 940-50hp, just like the I-15bis, I-153, and I-16 M62-63 Engines.

From the dedicated website "Annals Of The Brewster Buffalo", which has everything from the RAF evaluation tests in July 1940 to pilot's combat reports through to statistics. Lists of Commonwealth Buffalo aces are also given.

The Buffalo was the most successful fighter of WW2 with a 40:1 kill to loss ratio. The Fins managed a 38:1 kill to loss ratio and the Commonwealth pilots still managed a 2:1 kill to loss ratio.

Against the A6M Zero it enjoyed a 1.39:1 kill to loss ratio.

The Fins manufactured their own engine parts and other spares for the Buffalo and also fitted bigger cylinder bores in line with Wright's own improvements.

Note that the Humu (Reckless) flew with a 950 HP engine taken from an I-153and was found to be underpowered compared to the 1,100 HP Cyclone.

The P-36 A-3 had a 950 HP engine, whilst the ex-French Airforce "Cauldron" P-36 A-4 aircraft, bought from the Nazi's, were powered by 1,100 HP engines.

One unusual feature of a Buffalo, which is never found on any other fighter, is a seperate cargo hold and seperate passenger space under the pilot.

The maximum range of a Buffalo is 1,065 miles without drop tanks or 10.5 hours in the air.

[Panzergranate]

The "F" word came into existance, in the English language in 1872, according to Whitely's Oxford Dictionary of Swearwords and Expletives.

It is a Police charge sheet abreiviation and stands for "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" which one would be charged with if caught with one's pants down in a brothel during a police raid.

The offence came onto the statute books in the UK in 1872, as part of the government's on going moral campaign to stamp out prostitutution in the UK.

Until then, patrons of brothels were allowed to go free and uncharged during a police raid.

Prisoners in the cells would ask each other what they were in for and one could be in jail, awaiting trail, for f**king.

Its use in films and plays set before this date are historical language errors, in the same way as the Sherif Of Nottingham, in Kevin Costner's Robin Hood film, telling someone to come and see him at 12:30.

There are many urban myths about the word's origin, this is the true origin.

[stealth finger]

Originally Posted by Panzergranate

The "F" word came into existance, in the English language in 1872, according to Whitely's Oxford Dictionary of Swearwords and Expletives.

It is a Police charge sheet abreiviation and stands for "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" which one would be charged with if caught with one's pants down in a brothel during a police raid.

The offence came onto the statute books in the UK in 1872, as part of the government's on going moral campaign to stamp out prostitutution in the UK.

Until then, patrons of brothels were allowed to go free and uncharged during a police raid.

Prisoners in the cells would ask each other what they were in for and one could be in jail, awaiting trail, for f**king.

Its use in films and plays set before this date are historical language errors, in the same way as the Sherif Of Nottingham, in Kevin Costner's Robin Hood film, telling someone to come and see him at 12:30.

There are many urban myths about the word's origin, this is the true origin.

and now for something completely different

[Panzergranate]

The 38:1 kill to loss rate against Soviet aircraft of all types still proves a mega-point.

No other Finnish piloted fighter type came halfway close to this.

Between 1942 and 1943 one BUffalo squadron, with just 18 Buffaloes, managed to achieve 274 confirmed kills for the loss of just 2 Buffaloes through Soviet action, of which was shot down killing the pilot and one was written off when it crash landed at base.

The I-153, whether flown by Fins or Russians, was hopelessly outclassed by modern high speed bombers such as the SB-2M, Blenhiem II, Blenhiem IV, etc. with the latter being simply able to throttle up and leave pursuing I-153s far behind. The I-153 makes 288 MPH and the Blienhiem makes 293 MPH.

A fighter need to be at least 100 MPH faster than a bomber that it is dealing with. Being slower or just about able to match speed makes it an easy target for a bomber's gunners.

With modern bombers being faster and able to out perform the I-153 at altitude (and the I-16), the only other roles open to the I-153 were as a dogfighter and ground attack fighter-bomber.

Most bombers it faced could simply fly high and out of reach.

As a dogfighter it lacks the performance at altitude and the speed to deal with the fighters it faced, apart from Finnish Gladiators, Bulldogs and D-21, German Hs-123 ground attack aircraft.

The I-15 and I-15 Bis may have performed well against other bi-planes such as the He-51 over Spain, but by 1941 it was just a dinosaur fighter in a changing world, only outclassing similar dinosaur fighters and bombers flown by both the Fins and Russians. The premise for creating the I-153 as a dogfighter was flawed because by 1938, the age of the high speed maneuverable monoplane was beginning.

As for ground attack, the only other bi-plane to carry rockets was the Fairey Swordfish.

Apart from being an easier target for enemy FlaK, bi-planes do perform better in ground attack roles than faster monoplanes with less agility. Short take off and landing is also an advantage.

[Soviet Ace]

The reason why Russian planes seemed so outclassed, was because in the 30s, Russia put more effort in their biplane designs than monoplane designs. The reason why? Because during the 30s, Stalin and the rest thought that Biplanes were the way of the future because of their amazing maneuverability, and agility. The USSR, saw monoplanes as basically obsolete before they even really got going.

Same goes for many French planes as well. The reason the MS 406 and other French fighters were slow, was because though they were monoplanes, they wanted to keep that good maneuverability and agility going that many biplanes had. Same goes with Italy, and that's why we have the Fiat CR. 32-42 also.

Britain also thought biplanes would still be important, and actually the first designs of the Hawker Hurricane was actually a Biplane design.

It was Germany and the US, who started putting more work into the Monoplane structure/design, and that's why it seems like they outclassed most of their allies and enemies.

[f1rebrand]

So I see.

[olife]

Originally Posted by Panzergranate

The "F" word came into existance, in the English language in 1872, according to Whitely's Oxford Dictionary of Swearwords and Expletives.

It is a Police charge sheet abreiviation and stands for "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" which one would be charged with if caught with one's pants down in a brothel during a police raid.

The offence came onto the statute books in the UK in 1872, as part of the government's on going moral campaign to stamp out prostitutution in the UK.

Until then, patrons of brothels were allowed to go free and uncharged during a police raid.

Prisoners in the cells would ask each other what they were in for and one could be in jail, awaiting trail, for f**king.

Its use in films and plays set before this date are historical language errors, in the same way as the Sherif Of Nottingham, in Kevin Costner's Robin Hood film, telling someone to come and see him at 12:30.

There are many urban myths about the word's origin, this is the true origin.

thanks to explain it ,i didn't know it...

[winny]

Originally Posted by Panzergranate

The "F" word came into existance, in the English language in 1872, according to Whitely's Oxford Dictionary of Swearwords and Expletives.

It is a Police charge sheet abreiviation and stands for "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" which one would be charged with if caught with one's pants down in a brothel during a police raid.

The offence came onto the statute books in the UK in 1872, as part of the government's on going moral campaign to stamp out prostitutution in the UK.

Until then, patrons of brothels were allowed to go free and uncharged during a police raid.

Prisoners in the cells would ask each other what they were in for and one could be in jail, awaiting trail, for f**king.

Its use in films and plays set before this date are historical language errors, in the same way as the Sherif Of Nottingham, in Kevin Costner's Robin Hood film, telling someone to come and see him at 12:30.

There are many urban myths about the word's origin, this is the true origin.

No it isn't it's one of the urban myths. There are examples of the word dating back way further than that..

earliest appearance of current spelling is 1535 -- "Bischops ... may **** thair fill and be vnmaryit" [Sir David Lyndesay, "Ane Satyre of the Thrie Estaits"]

All of the acronyms are urban myths. There's loads of them.
When he was compiling the first dictionary Dr Johnson excluded the word, and **** wasn't in a single English language dictionary from 1795 to 1965.

The earliest version on record is recorded in the OED 2nd edition and cites 1503, in the form fukkit;

[Steyr_amr]

Originally Posted by winny

No it isn't it's one of the urban myths. There are examples of the word dating back way further than that..

earliest appearance of current spelling is 1535 -- "Bischops ... may **** thair fill and be vnmaryit" [Sir David Lyndesay, "Ane Satyre of the Thrie Estaits"]

All of the acronyms are urban myths. There's loads of them.
When he was compiling the first dictionary Dr Johnson excluded the word, and **** wasn't in a single English language dictionary from 1795 to 1965.

The earliest version on record is recorded in the OED 2nd edition and cites 1503, in the form fukkit;

I wanted to make this point too, but I'm Irish and have already been stereotyped in this thread. I rarely curse, even rarer with that word, and was prepared to argue the point but the lady across from me just this minute uttered it 4 times in one sentence down the phone, so I think I'll just go because this thread is so for off topic.

Good information on one of the games most marmite aircraft though.