Daidalos Team's Room -QUESTIONS AND REQUESTS ONLY on IL2 Authorized Addons

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by Aviar

For some strange reason, I also support JVM's trimming proposal. In part, because he explained it so well. He made some very valid points.

Actually, I can see it as part of the Difficulty settings...or possibly a conf parameter. This way, the players who may disagree with this option would not be forced to use it. Heck, we already have settings such as External View and No Cockpit. I don't see Auto-Trim as being any more outrageous than those options.

Aviar

I agree, actually. I do think JVM is overstating the difficulty of trimming with a decent rotary, though, I never have any problems trimming with the rotaries on my X45. The range of HOTAS rotaries is usually far more than 45° (on the X45 it's just a bit more than 270°), and therefore it's very easy to trim. Thing is, though, the majority of people don't have a stick with rotaries, so I don't see it as any more of an unfair advantage using auto-trim than for example allowing padlock vs. people using TrackIR. I'd just prefer if it wasn't perfectly accurate at trimming every time, like it is for the AI.

[JVM]

Remember I am not proposing really auto trim: I am proposing triggering the trim action at a speed of change equivalent to a real life trim wheel;
- if you stop pushing the button, the A/C will not be completely trimmed,
- if you change the attitude of the A/C during trimming, the A/C will not be correctly trimmed and you will have to do it again (= releasing the button and push it again)

This is quite close to RL equivalent of retrimming. You will have a perfect trim only if you let the time to the trim to reach its intended position, without having changed A/C attitude in the mean time: again this is close to RL behavior.

What you may not realize is that it is possible to obtain a far better trim with a proper control (or the system I propose) than with a rotary, even if you are trained to use the rotary.
In RL, you can obtain perfect trim...each time! With a rotary, it is approximate at best: to test it, relase the stick when you think you are in trim and look at what happens...

So the perfect trim the IA does can and should be yours...

As I said, the lesser evil would be insta-trim: you push the button, and voilà! you are trimmed...a bit easy but you still need to think about trimming action...and the full point is, more often than not, one does not think in time about trimming! You need to re-trim for each attitude change or RPM change: in manoeuvers this means all the time!

I can tell you that this is not a cheat at all, considering the limitations of our setups; you would just remark that your flying and A/C performances would be of better quality, exactly like in RL, that's all...

JV

RL flyer...

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by JVM

What you may not realize is that it is possible to obtain a far better trim with a proper control (or the system I propose) than with a rotary, even if you are trained to use the rotary..

*shrug* Could you explain how? How is a trim wheel in the cockpit of an aircraft functionally any different from a small wheel on a HOTAS system with a similar range of travel, other than that the rotary is probably easier to turn than the trim wheel?
The only problem I have with achieving perfect hands-off trim is either a) the aircraft doesn't possess full 3-axis trim (the most usual problem), or b) the center detents on X45's rotaries effectively eliminate a small but significant area from being available on each axis because the rotary can't be moved to these positions without springing into the detent.
This is why I don't understand people complaining in reviews that the Logitech G940 has detent-less trim wheels.
I don't think that people realise that detents aren't an advantage for a trim since the hands-off position changes all the time.
Other than those two problems, one of which wouldn't be improved by your system, and the other of which is a hardware problem, I don't see how your system would actually make any noticeable difference other than meaning that I have less control over the trimming of my aircraft, and that it would take longer to achieve a trim change (which is perhaps more realistic).
I just don't really understand how it's an improvement, but I'm quite happy to find out why it might be.