Friday Official Update, June 22, 2012

[mazex]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Where?

In the middle of Tuscany - a small countryside hotel in the hills near Montaione (some 30km SW of Firenze)... Any advice what to see/do? Venice is not that close so not your backyard directly PM if you have advice! Been looking for some military/aviation museums to mix with all the culture and wine yard visits but no luck yet... Have rental car so some distance is OK!

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by BlackSix

Yes it is. And my posts look terrible except for the Friday updates that writes or translates Luthier. I will take another 3-4 months to learn a language to work with this forum. I hope so.

black6,

your posts here are much appreciated, and it is good to have somebody communicate with us (even if you are not always allowed to say all you know)

if you see much frustration on this forum, please understand none of this is directed towards you personally, you are a great help here

[BlackSix]

Originally Posted by Stealth_Eagle

Oh well, I think you are learning quite well and maybe once a week you can try to come over here and have discussions with it (Maybe like FDR's Fireside chats that he did during WW2 perhaps ?). Then we can learn you more personally and we'll try to help you as much as we can. For most of us, our bark is worse than our bite (Wait a minute, who actually "bites" people around here?). Very best wishes to you BlackSix and thanks for doing this since not too many people would be able to just jump into a new language so quickly (Spanish has been the only class that I have failed in school so far, all my other grades are top notch so I can see your difficulty in learning something new.).

Thanks) My main problem is no free time for learning. If I'll find more time all will be good)

Originally Posted by zapatista

black6,

your posts here are much appreciated, and it is good to have somebody communicate with us (even if you are not always allowed to say all you know)

if you see much frustration on this forum, please understand none of this is directed towards you personally, you are a great help here

I understand all)

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

Yes,we all appreciate your help B6,your doing a sterling job

[Majo]

I do not agree about the language barrier mentioned here.

For many of us English is not our mother language, and still we have to deal with it every day.
You learn rules in order not to put yourself into trouble using a foreign language:
- Think twice before you speak/write.
- Keep it simple. Clear ideas and short sentences.
- Be sincere.

Following these rules, from my experience, will able you to get through with your message above
90% of the time. The 10% left is usually resolved with plain data or images.

Now, please, consider the kind of communications 1C, CloD Management, Luthier, B6, whoever…
has chosen to use with/for the community.

IMHO the language is not the problem, the problem is the message.

Salutes Majo.

[No601_Merlin]

. . . but they are actively banning people that show them up, expecting us to accept this incomplete production, that we paid for a year ago that's still unusable in any way similar the to IL2 that we have loved for years.

I feel cheated and taken advantage of expecting me or anyone else to buy the next instalment.

You lot are clueless when it comes to lifetime customer value.

Best you could do is sell the right to 777 who know to cultivate a regular income stream and continue to develop what has now become an exceptional product 'Rise of Flight'

Ban away, and if anyone disagrees you have got the game you deserve.

[Fjordmonkey]

Originally Posted by No601_Merlin

. . . but they are actively banning people that show them up, expecting us to accept this incomplete production, that we paid for a year ago that's still unusable in any way similar the to IL2 that we have loved for years.

I feel cheated and taken advantage of expecting me or anyone else to buy the next instalment.

You lot are clueless when it comes to lifetime customer value.

Best you could do is sell the right to 777 who know to cultivate a regular income stream and continue to develop what has now become an exceptional product 'Rise of Flight'

Ban away, and if anyone disagrees you have got the game you deserve.

Nobody is getting banned for voicing their opinion, but people ARE getting banned because of HOW they voice their opinion. There's a difference there that few people seem to realize.

If you stay constructive (i.e. don't go balls-out with cursing, insulting the devs/other posters and generally being a tosspot), then you won't get banned. Staying constructive even when giving negative feedback is, it seems, a lost and/or arcane art that few people seem to grasp these days.

[Volksieg]

Originally Posted by Fjordmonkey

Nobody is getting banned for voicing their opinion, but people ARE getting banned because of HOW they voice their opinion. There's a difference there that few people seem to realize.

If you stay constructive (i.e. don't go balls-out with cursing, insulting the devs/other posters and generally being a tosspot), then you won't get banned. Staying constructive even when giving negative feedback is, it seems, a lost and/or arcane art that few people seem to grasp these days.

This is totally true. In many ways I have had an awful lot of fun with CloD but, by the same token, I'm not happy about the state it is in... I'm not happy about CTDs ruining any attempt to play the game as it as, supposedly, meant to be... I'm not happy about a lot of things with CloD or how it has been handled. I've stated this many, many times! Not one infraction. Nada. Nothing. No threat of banning, no "ticking off" from a moderator... niet!

As Fjordmonkey states: Noone gets banned for simply stating their annoyance. It is HOW that annoyance is expressed.

[FS~Phat]

Originally Posted by Majo

I do not agree about the language barrier mentioned here.

For many of us English is not our mother language, and still we have to deal with it every day.
You learn rules in order not to put yourself into trouble using a foreign language:
- Think twice before you speak/write.
- Keep it simple. Clear ideas and short sentences.
- Be sincere.

Following these rules, from my experience, will able you to get through with your message above
90% of the time. The 10% left is usually resolved with plain data or images.

Now, please, consider the kind of communications 1C, CloD Management, Luthier, B6, whoever…
has chosen to use with/for the community.

IMHO the language is not the problem, the problem is the message.

Salutes Majo.

Im sorry but you couldnt be more wrong if you tried.
Language and cultural differences are what most of the communication issues are about. Do you think they want the game to fail?? Come on have some common sense.

I just posted this in another thread in relation to the subject of Russian Language and grammar translation to English and I think it's important enough to post here as it serves as a great example. I apologise for the double post but this is important. For those of you that have read it already just skip over it.

Originally Posted by BlackSix

Maybe we finished it in May. But it does not mean that we should immediately release a patch with this elements.

I believe what Blacksix was trying to say was.

Even if we finished it in May it doesnt mean that we should immediately release a patch with only these elements fixed.

Which is perfectly reasonable. (confirmed by B6 below)

Originally Posted by BlackSix

Yes, that's my problem. I don't see any difference between these two phrases. They are translated into Russian the same.
Thanks Phat.

Guys please understand B6 is still learning english and a direct russian translation would lack some of the small important words that we take for granted.
Such as "if" and the context of a sentence can be completely lost in translation.

You guys have used Google to translate before and you know it does the same thing, sometimes it looses context by omitting important words or changing the order of words which has an effect on the meaning. (changing the S-V-O order can have an effect on the meaning in english)

A new english speaker often has this problem.

English and Russian language structure is generally Subject-Verb-Object but Russian language is a lot more flexible with the order, especially in more complex sentence structures.

For example, the sentence "A cat caught a mouse" can be translated into Russian in the following ways: All would be understood by a Russian native speaker to mean the same thing.

1) Кошка поймала мышь.
2) Мышь поймала кошка.
3) Поймала кошка мышь.
4) Кошка мышь поймала.
5) Мышь кошка поймала.
6) Поймала мышь кошка.

However, if we translate those same sentences back to English without an understanding of english (as google has kindly done below) you can see the meaning is completely different.

1) The cat caught the mouse.
2) The mouse has caught the cat.
3) I caught a mouse the cat.
4) The cat caught the mouse.
5) The cat caught the mouse.
6) I caught a mouse the cat.

So its not hard to see that this...
Maybe we finished it in May. But it does not mean that we should immediately release a patch with this elements.

Was probably meant as this...
Even if we finished it in May it doesnt mean that we should immediately release a patch with only these elements fixed.

So in the end we need to give B6 some slack and understanding that not everything he is trying to say will be interpreted the way he has intended.
A lot of you are always looking for the bad angle instead of trying to understand the intent given the translation from Russian to English.

Thanks for the effort B6 we appreciate your efforts especially given English is a new language for you. You are getting much better though so dont let this lot get to you!!

Here's another quick lesson on Russian and why its translations are sometimes perceived as blunt, direct or rude. Russian language doesnt need all the extra padding we use in English.

Some people say that the Russian language can be hard to learn. This is not really true, learning Russian is no harder than learning other languages. The main difficulty for a lot of people is learning the new grammar structure. If you have learnt other languages before you will already be familiar with some of these grammar concepts, such as gender and cases.

In fact, there are many things that make Russian easier to learn than other languages. The key is to use these things to your advantage. Here are some things that make Russian easier.

1. Once you learn the alphabet, you can pronounce almost all words quite accurately. With Russian the pronunciation is normally quite clear from the written form of the word.

2. Russian does not use complicated sentence structures like English. You can normally say exactly what you want with just a few words. For example, in English to be polite we would say something like “can you please pass me the salt”, however in Russian they would say something simpler like “give salt please”. Speaking so directly may even feel unusual for an English speaker, however it is perfectly normal, just add the word ‘please’ to be polite. This makes it easy to say what you want in Russian, and it will probably be correct. Less words also makes listening to people easier, as you can just pick out the important words.

3. Russian uses the case system. Instead of having a strict sentence word order like in English, you just need to change the ends of the nouns. This makes Russian a very expressive language, because you can emphasise a point by changing the order of the words in a sentence. It also helps you understand what people are trying to say.

4. Russian does not use articles. (Like “a” and “the”)

5. Russian has fewer tenses than English. Russian does not bother with the difference between “I was running”, “I had been running”, etc.

Cheers,
Phat.

[No601_Merlin]

only governments accept products that do not reasonable satisfy the stated aims a year after purchase. If you sell a product that is known to still need a great deal of development, then its reasonable for people who having given them a whole year to get it right to complain about promoting a new product before the original one is finished.

No amount of cajoling or semi condescending rhetoric will change that Fjordmonkey.

I suspect their funding was cut off by the publishers and they just had to release as it was. Read my previous posts I was happy to give them the benefit of the doubt, you will see I have only just given up hope brought on by them banning a squad member for voicing a very similar reply.