1982 Falklands (Malvinas) War: a view from across the pond

[Baco]

No regarthing teh air war... No side WON. Teh British never ever detented Air Superiority. Target were being hit hard from the air till teh last day.. now in any military book that can not be considered Air superiority. If the enemy attacks with impunity, well, it is a problem, right?
So I belive the Air war is more inclined to the argentinians, becouse of the amount of damage they inflcited on the task force.
Dammage unprecedented in a modern war, and not surpased till our days.

NATO ship defense policy changed, the phalanx system was developed by studiying the vulnerabilities of the "state of the art" Anti Air frigates of 1982. suposedlly inespugnable in 1982... Well that sounds like a victory to me...at least a mopral one

Argentinian fighters did not have the range and endurance to fight the Harriers. Besides the Mirages are High Altitude interceptors, and the harriers are low level multipurpose aircrafts... of course the Harriers never climbed to meet the Mirages.. and the few times the Mirages tried to tangle at lo altitude ir order to atract the CAPs to them to aloud the bombers to reach their targets, they payed the price. But it was a calculated risk, to atrack, the CAPs... Later the British did not engage the Mirages and decoy tactics didn´t work any more.

The other piont was that the Magic 1 missiles we had were crap. They would not track and engage over 70% of the time (the Shrafir was onlly marginally better), so it was determined that it was pointless to try to engage the enemy. Our best tactic was to drop bombs and get out...

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by gheoss

To my point of view, the Malvinas are Argentine territory, you cant go to someones backyard and claim it to yourself because theres no one living there.

And the argentinian soldiers who died and survived the conflic, has the balls of the size of the moon, they were young kids with no combat training, scared and suffering from hypothermia, they fought like hell, they had F.A.L that didnt work, bad munition, no food (the high ranks were stealing all the food, money and items that the soldiers families were sending to them)...poor kids, when they saw the British suited with thermal, night vision, and all that technology..it was a big shock, but they still fought as heroes.

Same as the FAA, to me, the best pilots in the world (argentina STILL has the same jets, A4E Skyhawks, Mirage III, Super Etendart, Pucarás and Pampa)..

They used the jets as attack boats, fliying right above the sea crests..they had to wipe the cabin because of the water..

Big Respect for the Argentinians who fought with honor, they are the real heroes of that horrible and mistaken war.

In actual fact Mount Tumbledown, overlooking Stanley, was a fortress packed with several hundred Marines, some of Argentina's best troops, who were dug in.

They were attacked by 300 Scotsmen, so it's no surprise that they eventually ran for their lives. When the jocks got the upper hand the Argies ordered their own Arty to fire on their position.

Originally Posted by Baco

Regarding what the Ilanders want. The British did not stop one secod to ponder on what the people allready living there wnated whnen they kicked them out...

The principle of self determination is exclusive for indigenous population, NOT, tranplanted colonial population. No Islander grategrandfather was born on the islands, period. Every one of them comes from a british subjec familly. So the principle of self determination of the people does not aplly to them. It was Argentinian territory with a flag and a governor.. we do not claim to inherit it from spain, we claim it was populated and ruled by Argentina when the british took it by force. Putting it plainlly: If I steal yopur car, does it make it mine if my kid rides on it for long enough time? Or is it still your car?

Same thing here. The onlly reason the islands still are a British ocupied territory is illigal use of force. The whole world sees that, hell even the US abstained, instead of voting aggainst the UN resolutions..... Even the british people say it (acording to the latest polls)....

The war was a desperate atempt used by a drunk to remian in power... and gave the perfect opportunituy to a power drunk lady to stay in power, and oh yes the good ole British Navy a chance to get a little more budget... Still it was our right to claim what is rightfully ours. This is the same case of the owner of a house being sued by the burgler for getting hit in the head with a bat, INISDE the house, of course and with the families DVD in his hands.......

Regarding the combatants, Well both sides displayed honnor and courage and served their countries like true heroes... allways the military pays for the incompetence of their governments... Both sides fighting for what they belive in. My respect for them. British and Argentinians.

I don't think you've done one iota of research about the islands mate, there are so many mistakes in this it's hard to know where to begin.

For the record, and I can't stand Thatcher so I'm no biased, it was her husband who was a drunk - she was always sober even if there was a big party in town. I know this for a fact through a relative who was high up in the Police force when she was in power.

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by Baco

No regarthing teh air war... No side WON. Teh British never ever detented Air Superiority. Target were being hit hard from the air till teh last day.. now in any military book that can not be considered Air superiority. If the enemy attacks with impunity, well, it is a problem, right?
So I belive the Air war is more inclined to the argentinians, becouse of the amount of damage they inflcited on the task force.
Dammage unprecedented in a modern war, and not surpased till our days.

NATO ship defense policy changed, the phalanx system was developed by studiying the vulnerabilities of the "state of the art" Anti Air frigates of 1982. suposedlly inespugnable in 1982... Well that sounds like a victory to me...at least a mopral one

Argentinian fighters did not have the range and endurance to fight the Harriers. Besides the Mirages are High Altitude interceptors, and the harriers are low level multipurpose aircrafts... of course the Harriers never climbed to meet the Mirages.. and the few times the Mirages tried to tangle at lo altitude ir order to atract the CAPs to them to aloud the bombers to reach their targets, they payed the price. But it was a calculated risk, to atrack, the CAPs... Later the British did not engage the Mirages and decoy tactics didn´t work any more.

The other piont was that the Magic 1 missiles we had were crap. They would not track and engage over 70% of the time (the Shrafir was onlly marginally better), so it was determined that it was pointless to try to engage the enemy. Our best tactic was to drop bombs and get out...

So you are saying that you were xxxx but this never happened





I suppose this wasn't hand ball either

[Osprey]

If you have a spare 2 hours

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NtDG0_PgCU

[Glider]

Originally Posted by gheoss

To my point of view, the Malvinas are Argentine territory, you cant go to someones backyard and claim it to yourself because theres no one living there.

Whatever the background there is no doubt that the UK have had control for approching 180 years. In fact its been under UK control longer than Argentina has existed in its current form.
However its time to look forward, not backward. The UK have a principle that its down to the people who live on the island that have the say over who they exist under. Its exactly the same princple that Scotland are operating under. They have the power to become a seperate country, hard to believe but true and a vote is likely in the next 2-3 years.

And the argentinian soldiers who died and survived the conflic, has the balls of the size of the moon, they were young kids with no combat training, scared and suffering from hypothermia, they fought like hell,

Totally agree, raw recruits didn't stand a chance against the best the UK had, but even then they came close to winning the battle.

They had F.A.L that didnt work, bad munition, no food (the high ranks were stealing all the food, money and items that the soldiers families were sending to them)...poor kids, when they saw the British suited with thermal, night vision, and all that technology..it was a big shock, but they still fought as heroes.

There was little difference in the technology but the Argentine Leadership were pitifull and that was probably the biggest single difference. Its always the PBI that pay the price

Same as the FAA, to me, the best pilots in the world (argentina STILL has the same jets, A4E Skyhawks, Mirage III, Super Etendart, Pucarás and Pampa)..

Few in the UK would disagree with this, the pilots were really top draw. I always remember a quote from a Para who had seen some of the attacks. Remembering that they had been told that the Argentine Pilots were not that good he commented.
What F----er said they were no good, bit like Fangio, give them something fast and flashy and they look pretty bloody impressive to me.

From a Para that is very high praise

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Osprey

I'm pretty sure that it was known that there was a very high chance of finding oil in the region even in 1982. It just wasn't worth extracting it, until now.

And Stern, according to your logic the Canadians should get Alaska, or should they? I wonder if your stance would've been different if the Russians hadn't sold it off to the USA - I don't hear you pleading for sovereignty there, and it was handed over much later than the UK had people living in the Falklands.

I dunno about Alaska, and again I'm not saying that Falklands should be given to Argentina.. can you guys actually read?

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

Stern that page you linked was from an Argentine Government webpage.

No doubt that there's no slant on that lol.

Still waiting for an answer to my question.

..well what's wrong with that? Or is it only the British take a valid one?

[Sternjaeger II]

uh and Osprey, you're doing the much dreaded parallel football-history which I believe is one of the telltales of out of place banter.. does it really have to go down to that now? Can the conversation be civilised?

[Jaws2002]

If you look at the changes the global map had in the last 200 years, I kind of have a hard time understanding Argentinian demands.
Things change. countries and empires come and go. Borders are constantly changing.
The place I grew up in, back in Romania, belonged to Czechoslovakia, Poland, Hungary, Austro-Hungarian empire, and now is part of Romania. The map of the world changed hundreds of times in this 200 years.

200 years is a long time. There are generations of Brits that lives all their lives on that island. It's their land now. Better get used to it.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by Baco

The principle of self determination is exclusive for indigenous population, NOT, tranplanted colonial population. No Islander grategrandfather was born on the islands, period. Every one of them comes from a british subjec familly. So the principle of self determination of the people does not aplly to them. It was Argentinian territory with a flag and a governor.. we do not claim to inherit it from spain, we claim it was populated and ruled by Argentina when the british took it by force. Putting it plainlly: If I steal yopur car, does it make it mine if my kid rides on it for long enough time? Or is it still your car?

This is were things become complicated. A home is not a car. It is one thing to steal a tool and then let the children use it, it is another one to be born and having lived a whole life in one place and then being denied that being their home.
Despite some, admittingly, very strong argumentation towards giving back the Falkslands to Argentina, robbing people of their identity and land is a matter that should not be taken lightly. Former injustice in this regard, and sorry UK, that it was, still can't be made good with more injustice. Gibraltar, btw, is a very similiar case.

However, I think the concept of the Falklands becoming their own entity makes most sense, but this would require such a much more mature Argentina so that these islands could feel safe from occupation.