Balancing suggestions for Runemage

[monkeydog]

This OP issue with these units is mainly do to infinite phantom images. One suggestion would be to make it usable once and for every 20 mind runes get 1 more turn make 40 mind runes maximum. Maybe lower the percentage created as well. Of course it needs to be independent of the rune replenish option the rune Mage has for this to be possible. I'm sure you guys could come up with something better. This is just a start. Hopefully the devs can incorporate something in next patch. I just stop using them altogether. I was using two stacks of them with paladins and horseman.

[Nirual]

the health percentage definitely needs nerfing. If I was a developer, I'd probably change the Phantom spell in general so Phantoms can't use any abilities of the original, which is the central point people abuse. But failing that, the Rune Mage version definitely needs to be weaker in terms of health percentage.

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Nirual

the health percentage definitely needs nerfing. If I was a developer, I'd probably change the Phantom spell in general so Phantoms can't use any abilities of the original, which is the central point people abuse. But failing that, the Rune Mage version definitely needs to be weaker in terms of health percentage.

Considering the original Rune Mage made "pseudo" phantoms with leadership tied to per rune mage (let's say hypothetically 100 leadership per rune mage), there was definitely two different balance teams working on Crossworlds and Warriors of the North.

It is pretty silly that I easily figured out that 4 small stacks of 1 rune mage could artificially deliver insane firepower with Phantom Crush. The same Phantom firepower as 4 stacks of 50 rune mages each. Of course that's an extreme example (since you don't want to every lose an entire stack, so I kept maybe 20 per stack).

Yeah, being able to use the abilities is abusive and in a weird way they sort of did that. Rune mages don't get new runes (if you phantom a rune mage), orcs don't start with any initial adrenaline, but the royal griffin can still cast their celestial guards. I agree with your suggestion though.

Even without that though, I could crush everyone with 2-3 stacks of horsemen. Another balance issue is that rune mage phantoms in particular start IMMEDIATELY after being cast, unlike normal phantom which throws them back into the queue. This gives them the unique advantage of being similar to Summon Phoenix (a summon that can cut in front of the enemy's initiative) but in a caster form and with a split stack you can do it multiple times.

[Nirual]

Originally Posted by ckdamascus

Even without that though, I could crush everyone with 2-3 stacks of horsemen. Another balance issue is that rune mage phantoms in particular start IMMEDIATELY after being cast, unlike normal phantom which throws them back into the queue. This gives them the unique advantage of being similar to Summon Phoenix (a summon that can cut in front of the enemy's initiative) but in a caster form and with a split stack you can do it multiple times.

Actually a good spellcaster can get Phantoms moving instantly too, at least if you pick a high ini target.

But yes, the splitting is an issue too. I'm generally not fond of abilities that work completely separate of troop size /leadership, and this is by far the worst one.

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Nirual

Actually a good spellcaster can get Phantoms moving instantly too, at least if you pick a high ini target.

But yes, the splitting is an issue too. I'm generally not fond of abilities that work completely separate of troop size /leadership, and this is by far the worst one.

This is true, but with rune mages I can pick slow pokes to help burn counterattacks faster. It is nice, but a bit alarming when it is vastly superior to the real spell "Phantom".

Actually, what other abilities work independently of troop size / leadership? I was experimenting the other day and realized Demonesses' Charm works on 80% of leadership... of their own stack. Haha!

Hypnosis actually does work on 80% of your leadership (seems like a Viking/Skald COULD somewhat use this but eh).

They really took some time to balance out the older abilities. I'm always curious on more evil imba.

They really wanted to get this "Rune" theme going, yet I hate the Rune Magic Tree with a passion and beginning to dislike the Rune Mages even more.

[Nirual]

Originally Posted by ckdamascus

Actually, what other abilities work independently of troop size / leadership? I was experimenting the other day and realized Demonesses' Charm works on 80% of leadership... of their own stack. Haha!

to start with Demonesses, their swap ability. Wolf Howl (though at least it has a level restriction), Dryad Lullaby (same), Zombie Pass, Skeleton Sow Bones, and just about any creature buff/debuff ability such as those the Skald has.
Not all of those are as problematic and abusable as the runemages, but 3 stacks of demonesses are a nightmare for me.

And then there is the Paladin "Second Wind" and the Jarl version which have a leadership requirement... but its about 3 times the leadership of the troop using it, which makes it easy for a Phantom stack to give the turn to the Runemages that created it, even if its a full stack.