Mixture: All Brit fighters tested

[Torian]

Just gonna copy and paste my post from the ATAG forum here for those who may find it interesting.

OK, Testing done, my findings are:

DH Hurricane.....mixture is back to front, full rich is all the way forward, lean is all the way back....might be why the DH is a pain to start, get lever all the way forward when u push throttle forward.
Hurricane Rotol...modelled correctly
Hurricane 100oct...modelled correctly

Spitfire MkI....back to front...as per DH Hurricane
Spitfire MkIa...modelled correctly
Spitfire MkIIa...modelled correctly
Spitfire MIa_100oct...modelled correctly

Blenhiem MkIV...couldn't see any change. It flew just fine with the mixture where it should be, all the way back. In-game the mixture throttles are all the way forward at spawn.

Made a semi-dark early morning map and these findings are based on yellow and blue flames from the exhaust. If these are modelled incorrectly then all bets are off.
Not sure if it's absolutely needed but I found running the mixture throttle all the way up and down seemed to have a settling in effect after u takeoff (take that for what it worth, maybe nothing).
Now if this is all correct then it should help us with correct engine management and fewer burnt engines. There are other factors of course like rate of climb (keep at 180mph or above), radiator settings
(I aim for between 35 to 50% depending on what I'm doing aiming to keep engine temp under 110* water temp), prop pitch (the higher u go the coarser u will need to run it...been using 2400 when up at 16 to 19000ft) and throttle adjustment...u don't necessarily need hammer down all the time, proper engine management will require adjusting throttle to where it's needed.
Joining the Allied side means u are gonna need to learn how to fly. If u don't want to learn how to fly then get in a 109 E4 and just enjoy urself

[phoenix1963]

Good work, I emailed the same thought (but less comprehensively tested) to Sean (IvanK) because I had the same worry that he'd possibly overstated the problem for some aircraft.
He's in contact with Ilya.
Can Klem's measurement scripts give us the real mixture values?

56RAF_phoenix

[Torian]

Originally Posted by phoenix1963

Can Klem's measurement scripts give us the real mixture values?

I'm not familiar with this, can u give me a link ?
Thx

[phoenix1963]

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=33661
At the top of the thread.
I've not had time to try it yet, but maybe there's a call that can be added?

56RAF_phoenix

[Torian]

Thx for that. Comparisons between CloD FM and real world performance is not really my bag and is being done by more competent folk than myself. I was just wanting clarification on that which we have been given and how best to work with it. I just wanted to know which way to push the lever to get the correct mixture and to let evry1 know which planes have it right or wrong.
I'm not sure whether that test script is coded to measure mixture setting or just record where it was set and that will be affected by which way Klem believed it was supposed to be going. ie if he has coded it believing all mixture is modelled back to front and has coded 100% as fully rich when in fact 0% is fully rich then performance results will be invalid. I'm only guessing at this as I have no idea but just thinking out loud. I will PM him and give him a link to this thread and he may be able to clarify things.

[klem]

Hi Torian,

you should have my PM now but for anyone else...

My Hurricane tests were done on Auto-Rich, i.e. lever 'back' where it should be.

For the Spitfire I forget exactly what I did because it was a quick and dirty knowing there was another patch to come. I do know now that the MkIa with 100octane and BCO currently is modelled so that the mixture has to be 'fiddled' with. It should be back at fully rich for all normal flying and tests (they fixed the forward/back issue so forward is now lean and back is now rich as it should be). In the latest patch, you have to adjust to lean when flying BCO which is not how it should be. It should always be auto-rich ('back') unless cruising on auto-lean for economy (with restrictions on boost and rpm).

I could add the mixture to the script but it shouldn't be necessary. As I said, it should be 'back' on auto-Rich for all tests and normal flying.

Hope that helps.

[David198502]

Originally Posted by Torian

Just gonna copy and paste my post from the ATAG forum here for those who may find it interesting.

OK, Testing done, my findings are:

DH Hurricane.....mixture is back to front, full rich is all the way forward, lean is all the way back....might be why the DH is a pain to start, get lever all the way forward when u push throttle forward.
Hurricane Rotol...modelled correctly
Hurricane 100oct...modelled correctly

Spitfire MkI....back to front...as per DH Hurricane
Spitfire MkIa...modelled correctly
Spitfire MkIIa...modelled correctly
Spitfire MIa_100oct...modelled correctly

Blenhiem MkIV...couldn't see any change. It flew just fine with the mixture where it should be, all the way back. In-game the mixture throttles are all the way forward at spawn.

Made a semi-dark early morning map and these findings are based on yellow and blue flames from the exhaust. If these are modelled incorrectly then all bets are off.
Not sure if it's absolutely needed but I found running the mixture throttle all the way up and down seemed to have a settling in effect after u takeoff (take that for what it worth, maybe nothing).
Now if this is all correct then it should help us with correct engine management and fewer burnt engines. There are other factors of course like rate of climb (keep at 180mph or above), radiator settings
(I aim for between 35 to 50% depending on what I'm doing aiming to keep engine temp under 110* water temp), prop pitch (the higher u go the coarser u will need to run it...been using 2400 when up at 16 to 19000ft) and throttle adjustment...u don't necessarily need hammer down all the time, proper engine management will require adjusting throttle to where it's needed.
Joining the Allied side means u are gonna need to learn how to fly. If u don't want to learn how to fly then get in a 109 E4 and just enjoy urself

what a bullshit statement...get in a 109E4 and fly on rebka against other 109pilots and then see if you still enjoy yourself if you dont want to learn how to fly.
the rest of your post is informative though!

[Torian]

Well I do apologise that the tongue-in-cheek intent did not come across as intended. I'm just glad that we can now work with the mixture modelling knowing at least which which way it's oriented on the various Brit fighters. I find that the 109s seem to have less FM issues and with fuel injected, auto mixture & prop pitch engines there is less to have to factor in with engine management. I like flying 109s but my heart is with the Spits & just wish the devs would get them right.

[David198502]

+1 for that statement!

[Osprey]

Great work all contributors. Given that we apparently have 1 patch to come alone for COD there is a great concern that this may not be fixed, but it is essential that this, plus the temperature problems, are fixed.

I urge all pilots who seek accuracy to push this directly at B6 and Luthier.

~S~