OT; afghan war illegal?

[chantaje]

Originally Posted by Meusli

Iraq yes, but Afghanistan no. They deliberately allowed terrorists to train and strike from their country, an act of war if you ask me.

after the attack the afghan gov of the time was in agreement that if the US gov bring proof that binladen was connected to the attacks they will judge him or deport him for trial in the US

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPh6Iv2GbcA

[DroopSnoot]

and why was Iraq illegal?

[Oldschool61]

Originally Posted by DroopSnoot

and why was Iraq illegal?

I dont consider either of them a war, they are both occupations. Iraq was
just a big mistake, never should have gone in there. Afghanistan is a policing
action.

[Meusli]

Did Bin Laden not admit the attacks on the WTC? If he went around saying he did then he most likely was responsible, plus he had the means. Also why have terrorist training camps for Al Qaede all over Afghanistan, were they some sort of holiday camps for lonely nutters?

[DroopSnoot]

Originally Posted by Oldschool61

I dont consider either of them a war, they are both occupations. Iraq was
just a big mistake, never should have gone in there. Afghanistan is a policing
action.

LMAO! been there? So all the people who gave up their lives to try to free that country and protect the rest of the western and eastern world from harm died for nothing?

And to the rest :
"We know he has them, we just have to catch him with them, thats the tough bit because we know he keeps moving them" - Hanz Blix

Sadam was a despot murderous monster that killed thousands of people, not only in his own country but in neigbouring countries because he didnt like their culture or religion, the nation he controlled lived under the heel of his boot and he wasnt afaid to crush his people and did so on many occasions.

Its sad that the US didnt want to wait for the UN, but Sadam is gone and the country is now free to start again as it was supposed to when Saddam was empowered in the first place to fight off Iran.

[Oldschool61]

Originally Posted by DroopSnoot

LMAO! been there? So all the people who gave up their lives to try to free that country and protect the rest of the western and eastern world from harm died for nothing?

Basically yes. And they were never protecting "our" freedom. They were over throwing a dictator. And wheather it was legal is still up for grabs. Not one american soldier has had to fight for our freedom since WWII.

[DroopSnoot]

Originally Posted by Oldschool61

Basically yes. And they were never protecting "our" freedom. They were over throwing a dictator. And wheather it was legal is still up for grabs. Not one american soldier has had to fight for our freedom since WWII.

Well lets hope america never has the need for anyone to over throw any of its government, because imagine if the world had your attitude,"if its not at my door i dont care".
This may come as a supprise to you but what happens around the world affects your freedoms and your countries freedoms. Its called commerce.

My friends died for a just cause, wether that's Iraq's populas's freedom or countries sounding Iraq's security and European and North American security.

Freedom is maintained its not perminent, thats what all the U.S soliders deaths since WW2 has achieved for you, the liberty to say it was all for nothing.

It always amazes me how the people how never had any direct experience of the instance have the most opinions about it which are mostly based upon a media outlet used for the furthering of their own particular cause, in this case a headline story.

I'm done with this BS thread.

[Jatta Raso]

Originally Posted by DroopSnoot

LMAO! been there? So all the people who gave up their lives to try to free that country and protect the rest of the western and eastern world from harm died for nothing? (not for nothing; for protecting petrodollar investments and helping plundering Iraq for oil)

And to the rest :
"We know he has them, we just have to catch him with them, thats the tough bit because we know he keeps moving them" - Hanz Blix (it has been proved extensively that those WMD never existed in the first place; Blix later stated that Washington and it's allies over dramatized the threat possibility, and assumed the whole story lacked foundation and solid evidence; US government ended up stating "just because we found nothing doesn't mean there was nothing"; draw your own conclusions really...)

Sadam was a despot murderous monster (put and maintained in charge by the US) that killed thousands of people (with backup of US), not only in his own country but in neigbouring countries because he didnt like their culture or religion (and because US gave him the means and support), the nation he controlled lived under the heel of his boot and he wasnt afaid to crush his people (nor of his neighboring countries because US had his back) and did so on many occasions. (with complacency of US/UN)

Its sad that the US didnt want to wait for the UN (not the saddest part from US on this though), but Sadam is gone and the country is now free (and in ruins and plundered of natural resources, plus enslaved on external debt) to start again as it was supposed to when Saddam was empowered in the first place to fight off Iran.(do you even know the first thing on Iraq-Iran war???)

i'm sorry, i don't want to antagonize you, but you display the utmost ignorance on a real sensitive issue like war; wake up to reality, the US intervention was a crime, lots of civilians died for nothing, they created the situation and later dealt with it on its own terms and agenda, acting only for US's leader elite interests, most ppl know about this, that's why US's image abroad is so degraded. it's well known US's main business is war, they just need some excuse every now and then to wage it. US's main industry is arms production, that must keep flowing; after all, if no one's fighting who'd be buying?

about the legal aspect of a war, it would be important to know who's casting judgement on this and on what terms; we have been lied over and over again by our leaders, as we where with the WMD and many other excuses before.

above all, i don't care if it's illegal or not as much as if it's right or not. legality is also a form of bureaucracy and is as corruptible as anything else. death penalty is legal on some places; i don't care about that, for me it's wrong plain and simple, not an issue that 'legality' can whitewash.

[chantaje]

Originally Posted by Jatta Raso

above all, i don't care if it's illegal or not as much as if it's right or not. legality is also a form of bureaucracy and is as corruptible as anything else. death penalty is legal on some places; i don't care about that, for me it's wrong plain and simple, not an issue that 'legality' can whitewash.

You are right , legality is a burocracy and can be bended.
its not the best guide of whats "good and bad" but is the only one that exist.
and its the only tool we as common people have to control our "leaders"

its the only way to have cheney or other war criminals on trial (in our dreams maybe but its posibble tecnicaly speaking).

thats why i try to put the legal part on the topic.
we all know that its wrong (i hope we do) , if we know its also illegal we can at least dream to see the responsables on trial.


S! thanks for all the responses. its a very interesting topic for me and i learn a lot reading all the opinions and povs

[Davy TASB]

Originally Posted by Jatta Raso

we have been lied over and over again by our leaders, as we where with the WMD and many other excuses before.

Tell that to the Kurds in Northern Iraq.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack