[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

I've done self defence courses man, and I know how to defend myself by just using my body, but above all I also know its limitations. If I get attacked by 6 robbers what shall I do? Put up a fight? I don't see the outcome of such a scenario as a positive one, unless you're Chuck Norris. If you're happy to gamble with your life good for you, I care about mine, and have seen and lived enough to leave it all to chance. Some stuff we can't control, but other we can.

So when were you ever attacked by 6 robbers at the same time? You know, I actually do know people that never got robbed over their entire life. Actually, that applies to most people I know. This kind of argument makes it appear as if a robbery or a violent crime happens to anybody on a weekly basis and you always have to be prepared for it, as if we live here In Somalia or Iraq and death is only a trigger pull away. You are blowing the dangers of violent assault or armed robbery way out of proportion.

In fact, it is more likely that you get hit by a car or killed by a plane crash in Europe, even in the US, even in Russia and China. What's your solution to that? Never leave the house as it's the only means to protect your family? How can you be so afraid all the time?

And what's with this stereotype of ego that needs to be compensated with guns? That's quite ridiculous, and typical of someone who never handled one. It's like saying "that guy is driving a Ferrari cos he has a small penis".. grow up man, envy is a bad bad thing.

Believe me, I know to handle a gun. I actually do have the same fascination with guns and weapons as everybody else. I'd not be playing this game in the first place if this was not the case.

However, there is a difference in admitting to have that fun and fascination on an emotional level, and actually realizing that and the consequences those instincts can have in the long run. It's a matter of self discipline you owe your own intelligence.
Btw, forgive my Ego puns. It was just too classic to not to use it.

I already found the solution for it, it's just a case of you not agreeing with it. If you want to think you live in a perfect world, with bees flying and honey streaming from rivers, you're up for a shock.

The world is exactly what we make of it. Not more, not less.
Either you treat humanity as an instict driven, dangerous species that is a danger to itself and requires the constant need to violent retaliation and mutual assured destruction on an individual scale.

Or you treat them as a species that has the capability to overcome it's natural programming by applied intelligence.

Whatever view you chose, it applies to you as well.

We will NEVER be a peaceful society, confrontation is in our DNA and has been happening for thousands of years. I don't see why it's not mature only cos it doesn't agree with yours, it's a bit arrogant, don't you think?

Sorry, there are enough peaceful societies out there. These polemics lead nowhere. If you want to play the cynical "oooh the world is sooooo evil, kill or be killed! D:", feel free to do so, but do not expect to be taken serious with this lame world view. So how often were you beat up to make you that bitter? How many friends do you have if you think everybody is only out for confrontation? I very much suspect that your own life situation will disprove your words.

Men is a herd animal. He is contructed for cooperation. Even more important, the larger the coopertional body, the more complex and rewarding achievements can be accomplished. It's a matter of pure rationale.

Oh, btw, you will love that. There is a scientific argument that says that intelligence and rational discourse actually developed as a weapon as well, as those that were capable of employing their brain to win an argument had better chances to raise in the food chain. Maybe train that one a bit instead?

I'm sorry, but you're talking nonsense.
I handled guns for years and never had a problem, you (and two others here) think of people with firearms like a bunch of gung-hos with holsters and guns in their socks, ready to jump at any given chance. It's not like that, I'm not for free carrying of firearms, I'm for discipline and security, a demand that is necessary for our society, since our authorities are obviously incapable of offering a suitable swift answer in case of an aggression.

No, I consider gun addicts in general as cool and generous people that actually do not want to hurt anybody, but simply do not think though the problem of broadly applying their hobbies and dometimes very warped world views. And I have no idea how your authorities work, but ours are good enough to bring down crime rates for the last 200 years on a constant basis, living in a country and a society that grows ever more secure. And it does not require gun ownership.

A mentality like yours is one that relies not only on an utopia, but also little and selfish, which back inside is all about "let's hope it won't happen to me".

You can't imagine how often I heared that Utopia argument. Appears to be standart in any such debate. Is there a handbook or something floating around titled "how to defend gun ownership for dummies" that I missed?

I will repeat, the world is what you make out of it. And the demanour you carry around will influence the people around you and vice versa. If you argue the world being such a bad place, it "will" become this place. It's like in the financial market, once you talk about a company losing it's trust, it "will" lose that trust. So if you are complaining about such a cruel world, then you actually help create it. Men is not a constant variable, the species always adapts to the situation and the signals given by others around.

Take some responsibilities for your society and your family, claim your right to defend them, don't just wait and hope others will do it for you.

It actually surprises me that some of you three (if not all) have families and think they're providing them with an adequate protection.

Simple maths.

Allowing gun ownership and raising the risk of being shot in general due to a much higher number of weapons available even to people that have no connections to the black market, with a certain chance that maybe, if being threatend, I can actually make use of my own gun,

or

Having only the means to defend myself with my body and objects lying around, but with a hugely reduced chance of that ever having to become nessecary in the first place, especially when children starting to have their own lives at nights without me having the means to pretect them 24/7.

Sorry, you argue simply for your own sake here, Sternjaeger, do not try to bring others families in here with such lousy arguments. You can either take the hard road, set an example, swim against the stream and influence the people surrounding you in such a positive way that they themselves start to influence others, or you can let your standarts being dictated by the scum of this world and help them dragging everything down.

Just do not complain when the bill for that is served.