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Old 09-03-2011, 02:51 PM
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bongodriver bongodriver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madfish View Post
I agree ruggbutt.

@Iku_es, aren't you a bit overprotective of the pilots?

The reason I am asking is because the alarm scenario you describe wasn't what that flight experienced. But even if they would have - the issue I still have is that I simply cannot think of any reason for a nose up but of many for a nose down. Is there actually a single reason for a nose up during a stall warning?.

Also please don't say that they have been scared by an alarm. Seriously, I may not be a pilot for a living but I got my fair share of experience with emergencies, even during flight. I don't want to disclose details but let me mention this: what do you think are they getting paid for? Trained for? So they can be scared when it counts? Even more of a clear sign that human pilots should be replaced as soon as possible.

I absolutely agree that is possible the pilots aren't the cause for the crash at all. What I'm saying is that from what the blackbox reveiled so far they didn't act according to what normal procedures would be and what you'd expect.

I'm just extremely interested in an actual reason for a nose up in that situation. You and for example IvanK defended the pilots behavior but on what basis? Procedures during a stall warning are as seen above: Nose down!
Collision with ground was highly unlikely when a plane exceeds its maximum permissable altitude I assume. So what kept them from nosing down? I simply cannot understand.



Bongodriver, you're joking right? Why is it we always see the same defense to cover up for something that eventually killed hundreds? I wonder who is the troll here. Why can't you just kindly elaborate how they followed procedures and why a nose up was necessary, even breaking the max altitude?

Also I get the suspicion you're not even a real pilot. At least not one with deep knowledge and manners. After all you should know that most of the people who now analyze the crash aren't pilots either. Many of those are "just" stupid engineer "trolls". I guess you get the idea and why I'm interested in an actual answer.

I'm not saying they are the cause for the crash - I'm saying they didn't follow common sense from what I can tell and most likely also violated procedures.

As I mentioned above, and I probably asked for about 3 times already, I'm just highly interested why they'd nose up during stall warnings? I'm sure you are much wiser than I / we are so could you enlighten me on the subject instead of assaulting me verbally? That'd be amazing.

Also let me ask you this: would you trust a pilot that pulls the nose up during a stall at that altitude with absolutely no risk of ground collision? Why didn't they just mayday and descend?

Suspiciously every time someone jumps to defend the aircrew they never actually explain their behavior wich was obviously not leading to a safe landing of the plane and violating many procedures. IvanK even posted them. Is it because there is no real explanation or is it just so top secret that it cannot be shared?
Madfish......The main reason nobody is explaining this to you is because like 'most' sensible people we will wait for the 'official' report on exactly what happened, if you really want me to tell you why they 'pulled up' then I'm sorry I can't, but I can tell you that any pilot will not 'pull up' if the only situation he is faced with is a stall, but the Air France incident is much more than just a 'stall', they encountered something much more elaborate and were being fed information (in all probabbility) that was conflicting and they were left to make action on a 'best guess' basis (that is why I used the analogy of a gamble)
I personally don't care if you believe I'm a pilot or not and won't waste any time trying to convince you, but I will explain that 'pulling up' during a stall is not the biggest mistake, in actual fact 'most' aircraft will suffer no ill effects from keeping the stick back in a stall, all that happens is the aircraft remains in a stalled condition and descends at a highish rate.....but if you put a rudder input in in this condition then you 'could' induce a spin, I have stalled the Learjet in real life (not in the sim) and it is a pussycat in the stall, I can't honestly say I have flown any aircraft that has undesireable stall effects, but I have flow a few that will kill you if you don't handle the spin correctly.
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