Invincible Heinkels
 

There is a problem I have with the sim that bugs me and that is that the He111 is unbelievably tough.

Do17z's and Ju88's are a great challenge, although I can usually set them alight/tear off some control surfaces/kill everyone inside. The he111 however is an absolute monster. I actually couldn't believe how tough it was before so I put on unlimited ammo, gave one a few diving passes with the usual no effect, then proceeded to sit behind him at the 170m convergence point and observe my furious stream of .30 have no effect, minute after minute. I have done this numerous times and observed it takes about 1000 hits to bring one down. The do17 or ju88 I can bring down in 300 hits.

I know the He111 has an armoured bulkhead behind the pilot but this still does not explain how on earth 1000 hits can not completely obliterate control surfaces and ignite fuel tanks.

Anyone else noticed this?

I wanna see video now.

Curious of Camberwell.

No.

A: Use a Hurricane for bomber attack as it's guns offer a higher concentration of fire.

B: Only fire at or near your gun convergence setting.

C: Make sure your ammo belting is a mix of incendiary and armor piercing only, NO BALL AMMO.

When I was still actively flying in Clod, I found that the HE 111 posed no particular problems for me compared to any other of the German bombers. Taking off the wings outboard of the engines was not difficult.

The really tough bomber is the Fiat BR.20.

It happened to me once or twice so far that I downed two or three Heinkels in one flight in a Spitfire (less concentrated guns and more unstable than Hurricane).

Both occasions happened under the same conditions: The key is the gun convergence and the weak spot wing near the engine.

Shooting the Heinkel fuselage is pointless. It throughly armored and .303s will just bounce off the armored bulkhead.

Aim for then engines/fuel tanks in the wings.

How many hits can people bring a he111 down in here?

This.

In fact you need to do this on all bombers.

Do-17, just inside one of the engines will cause a fire to blow off a wing
Ju-88, just outside one of the engines will cause a fire to blow off the wing

Br-20, don't know the answer to this yet - they seem very tough indeed.

It really isn't just a matter of how many hits. There are examples of real 111s getting home with many hundreds of hits. A ball or armour piercing .303 round makes a hole, that's all. It's what you hit that matters. Hit a cable, engine component, fuel, oil or coolant tank or line and you'll see some results. Fill the fuselage or wing structure with holes and it'll just carry on flying.

For a long time the damage model in sims was a very simple point scoring system where each bullet hit increased the score until a certain threshold was reached and the aircraft broke or blew up or something.

What we now have is far more advanced/realistic and you have to get your fire concentrated and targeted at the critical components to have any effect at all.

A hundred hits if hit square and fair in a single pass. 200-250 usually (2-3 passes with good hits). Up to 500 if one is really tough and I don't hit well.

Sitting behind the bomber and peppering him does not give good results. I attack with lots of speed, from side angle and above (or below), open fire at short distance (under 200, convergence set at 150), one short burst if I get him in my sight.
If not - or not enough damage done - get back in to position and then make another pass.
+++++

Btw, BR20 burns easily in center fuselage and sheers off wing at wing root. Easier than He 111 I think.
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