Will there be an online community for COD after BOS?
 

I see COD is $5 at gamersgate and was thinking of getting it for friends at that price.
Using fusion4 of course. But now I am thinking with BOS out in a few months is it worth picking up and learning?

I love BOB theatre and BOS theatre in comparison is fairly boring to me.
I have only just got interested in COD again after that horrid launch and the myriad of bugs that even still exist... rear view mirror facing the right way yet?

So the interest is there. Question is will the community be there?

The answer would have to be a big yes. Just look at the 46 crowd, they took it over and consider it their brain child. :grin:

Good! :)
Because I just spend $10 on two copies from gamersgate and now have to choose two initiate pilots very carefully... but then I am fairly new to this as well!

Good decision, Destraex! I am looking forward to seeing you and your friends in the BoB skies!

To me BoS will only become a topic when it is released in another 6 months. But as this might be round about the time when the Team Fusion patch 5.00 with its new theatre (Mediterranean?) and planes (Bf 109 F, Spitfire V?) might come out...

In any case a very good time for combat fligt simmers!

This is my main problem with the current TF concept...originally I was hoping that they could bring back some of the features that were removed by the devs, and maybe concentrate on the reported bugs. But adding variants is not a healthy direction IMHO, and will create an stagnant pilot environment like that of 46, where they are stuck in the last decade. They(TF) have done a good job on some things, but the job of adding aircraft, belongs to the devs/games of the future...who we must support or that too will fade away

Thats just nonsense.

That is my interpretation too.

I would have called it differently but I also do not see any reason why an evolving CloD would not do the flight simulation community a favour. There are so many planes and different theatres available and surely a lot of great ideas not yet implemented by any sim.

The aspect that all the achievements Team Fusion have realised were possible by pure enthusiasm just shows what game development should be about. Of course, beside the financial aspect that professionall developers also have to keep in mind.

COD will evolve with TF just as it would have with a dedicated developer, only slower, with a part time community TF development crew.

Oleg and Luthier's development team built a very complex sim engine, that was being designed for years of feature/content upgrades. Oleg wasn't able to finish the sim engine, but everyday TF is getting a better and better handle on its complexity, and its almost limitless potential.

The COD game engine currently has no rival in its capabilities, but it will be interesting to see if the ROF game engine can be upgraded by the BOS developers. I see no reason why it couldn't, as all game engines are just a bunch of arranged 1's and 0's.

answer: yes

First off .. CoD for $5 is a no brainer at this point. By all means a very good choice. CoD has managed to pull itslef out of the trash can and back in the Pantheon of great sims.. but it will always be limited unless TF can find a way to eat with it becuase it is too much work and they will not be able to compete with the likes of 1CGS and RRGDCS doing this in their spare time. It takes nothing away from what the have done because in the minds of many CoD would not be what it currently is without TF... even with the last official patch from 1C.

I think that BoS is going to start making waves come Tuesday. In 6 months unless there is some kind of global disaster .. BoS, with it's limited theater and all is going to shake up the flight sim world.. like it hasn't been shaken up in over a decade.. I guarantee it. The Alpha Early Release slated for Tuesday is the sim at 32% .... Come February of 2014 we should be seeing something closer to the final product.. but in any case it is going to be a game changer come final release

I don't know about that... but I understand where both of you are coming from .. and I agree in part with both of you but I think that CoD is only going to go so far for the reasons I mentioned.. Unless TF can find a way to get paid for their time and work... there will only be so much they can do because they have to eat .. they have to live.. they have to work.. and there are so many hours in the day .. especially when you have a family.

I have no idea what Ilya is going to do in DCS... but BoS is coming and it is going to make a wave.. not a splash.

all good points BC

Good post.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro

The secret is, and always was, to arrange those pesky one's and zeros to get the most out of the available computing power.
As it seems the foundation of the CoD engine is so sound that, after cleaning out the bugs, it offers the possibility to realize Oleg's dream of a multi purpose, high fidelity sim engine.
As the problems with expanding software mostly come from the built in limitations, the 777-1c- devs have quite a lot to do the reach the possibilities of the CoD engine from their RoF base.
Lets see how the reach their goal, that far it looks good.

With all the effort that Team Fusion has put into this game, COD has gone ahead in leaps and bounds. To my mind it's arguably the most enjoyable WWII sim out there.

And heaven only knows what these guys are capable of developing in the next 6 months. Yes, BOS will definitely be on my 'to get' list. But it'll face extreme competition from COD when it finally does come out.

I'm struggling to enjoy COD, maybe its just too realistic for my sense of gameplay. At times I used to get annoyed at the damage model in IL-2 where a spit could stay in the fight after taking a very solid burst. Realistically in that situation the fight should have been over with the spit pilot bailing or try to find a way to get away, and nurse his aircraft back to base.

I expected COD's much more realistic damage model, to make this happen, but its exactly the opposite. Now quite often I use up all my ammo to take down an AI aircraft. That said its much harder putting bullets on target in COD than it was in IL-2.

In all the gun camera videos I've ever seen, I've never seen an extended dogfight. I'm sure there were, but I've never seen them, probably because the gun camera only starts when the guns are fired. doh!! I wonder if our flight sims have become unrealistically hard or if I need a more Hollywood style sim. Its not like we are bad pilots with thousands of hours of flight time, and shooting experience in combat flight sims.

I'll be interested to see if BOS, gives me a more satisfying gameplay experience. All else being equal, BOS's implementation of the Oculus Rift, could be the deciding factor in which CFS I fly most, .

Gents,

BoS will be better 'out-of-the-box' than CoD.

Just a guess but probably most of the gun camera videos were made at a later stage of the war. In this case the planes did not fire with small machineguns anymore but had devastating cannons. I think getting some cannon rounds into the target brings down planes more quickly. ;)

I think every game is better out-of-the-box than CloD was at the time of its release. The interesting question is if BoS will have the quality at release date which Clod has achieved in the current Team Fusion version (maybe already TF 5.00 in late spring). Looking at the current screenshots and videos BoS will have a hard time graphic-wise with its already rather outdated graphic engine. Naturally, cost-wise as well with CloD being nearly free ($ 10, often only for $ 5) in comparison with the high investment of $ 100 for BoS. The important part will be the general flight feeling and the physic and damage models. To me a major aspect will be its capability to allow for big campaign missions and a huge amount of objects in the air and on the ground - making it a real simulation and more than a dogfighting game. To my knowledge a strong weakpoint of RoF - so let's see how BoS will perform.

I think the vast amount of attacks were ambush in nature
at close range 70-80m, people should hone this style.

My take on Clod out of the box was just a master piece, with some issues needing attention. This became evident only after the fact, when trying the EU release with a strong machine. Every patch took a little bit of life away from it in various ways. There will never be another flight sim that can compare to it. We had our chance at this but most of us hesitated to do a up-grade, including me, it took me awhile.

Therin lies it's limitation.

I don't know about that.. I think the implementation of BoS was a choice.. not a non choice based on engine limitations.. I think, and especially after I have now seen the Alpha at 32% .. that this engine can do what CoD does .. but in reality it doesn't have to do what CoD does.. it just has to do what it does well enough.. and it does just that and it will only get better.

I don't think so. Competition yes.. but extreme? No... and even that will fade over time. BoS will face more competition form DCS:WWII than from CoD .. As far as the masses go and establishing a large community is concerned, CoD's days are numbered unless it gets picked up by someone. Even if it was someone who could pay TF a livable wage to work on it.. but in their spare time, unless they are all either single guys with no significant others and no lives to speak of, or a lot more guys than there are (and that becomes problematic as well.. too many workers..) there is only so much that TF can do and time is not on their side as far as the masses go. That is the reality CoD is facing. It takes absolutely nothing away from the work they have done.. and it will probably be around for a long long time.. but it will not be a major player in the genre outside of a cadre of dedicated fans.

I agree with some of this ... but the graphics of BoS are pretty darned good.. Not dated at all IMO .. just different from CoD. Mind you it is still a WIP by a paid team that has hundreds of man hours a week to devote solely to it's development. I think that at this point though.. TF needs to consider coming up with some more aircraft.. not a lot.. but even one .. that is not a variant of something already in the sim yet done to the same or very close quality .. if not better.. would send a message that would speak volumes about the potential for CoD's future and TFs role in it beyond the great work they have already done.


This is just my opinion .. and it accounts for what it does... I have no crystal ball .. but BoS even in it's current state is a very interesting piece of kit and it counters some of the basic things that CoD did very well very well.

In certain aspect it is no bad, the developer have compromises that sometimes limit creation, see many things that TD put in il-2:'46 that OM already say "is not possible", sample radio navigation.

Is fool this "my game is better" thing circulating around foruns.

CloD - BoB scenery, maybe Malta.

Bo$ - Eastern Front mid war.

DCS WWII - Western front late war.

Mmm, we need Pacific. :)

Sokol1

So whats the CoD community like these days ?

I gave up on CoD early in the piece because the community seem to be a bunch of of girly whiners who complained about everything and were never happy, throwing tantrums at every little problem, which kinda took all the fun out of the game for me (unlike IL2 where people seemed very tolerant and there was something of a team spirit).

I am asking as I have been playing EVE lately (every one there is a rabid sociopath instead) but am thinking of reinstalling.

Hi Galway

In my opinion, the mood is much better now. The people who were constantly unhappy with the game have left, the ones who are really into it, are still here. And the most amazing thing: the community is growing due to the Team Fusion-Mods!

I really recommend giving CloD a try with the Team Fusion Mods! You can find support and everything at http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/forum.php.

Welcome back!

definitely worth another try, the community that remains is very kicked back and mellow :)

yeah, as the other friends have said..
those who remained here are the "true believers" in some ways...

Team Fusion mod is a MUST though... it literally transforms the game into a gem... you must download it and try some mission online.
It's a blast.

And IMO nothing compares (yet) to the level of authenticity and details CloD has... not many aircraft, but , God, how realistically they are modeled. Cockpits are a work of art, and it really seems you're inside a real plane.
And its DM is the best, hand down.

I truly love this game. It has huge potential... too bad it was not loved much, due to its many faults. But it remains my preferred sim. (and I've been playing since... what? Tornado, the 1993 videogame. By the way, does anybody know this simulator? It was AMAZING...)

I really hope a future mod will create the early clashes in the Mediterranean and around Malta... it would be surely a fantastic occasion to fly in a Cr42 or a Glad over the sea, escorting convoys, hunting for submarines, clashing against torpedo bombers ... (it's great to dream a little bit, isn't it).

Anyway, as previously said, give the Team Fusion's Mod a try... you won't be disappointed.

Cheers

There is little doubt that COD will live on for quite sometime. Oleg and Luthier have developed an almost limitless sandbox for a mod teams and mission/campaign builders like Team Fusion to create new features, environments, and aircraft for the online and offline community. The BOS developers say they want to provide a Mod friendly environment, but it remains to be seen how BOS will fair in that regard. Either way I see no conflict, as over the next few years we will be able to fly a couple of different Eastern Front Theaters from the BOS developers, and BOB, probably Malta/N. Africa from COD/Team Fusion.

That's all good, but if people become to comfortable in their various IL-2 sand box's siming advancements could suffer.
We just had a golden opportunity for a flyable B-17, but sadly participation numbers were low.

The advancements will depend on developer/engine capabilities and funding, along with strong mod communities. Sims will become stagnant when development stops, or the community stops supporting the developments, but I don't see that happening any time soon even in this tiny genre, with two development teams, and a strong Mod community. The original IL-2 was a long term success because the development team, and mod community continually added more interesting stuff.

The B17 failed because of the small genre, and the hangover of Luthiers/Olegs long drawnout development of their new highly complex game engine. Today's combat flight sims are so complex, that they take so much more time, and money to develop, while the genre wants it sold cheap, and released yesterday. The complexity of the game play also has a detrimental effect on the number of gamers that want to dedicate the time to learn. Its no wonder that only combat flight sim enthusiast are making these games, while the genre will shat on them at any sign of a setback.

The COD development would have tested anyone patience, but thats what were going to need, unless there is some coding breakthrough that will allow complex game engines, and content to be developed quickly and efficiently. BOS should be OK in this regard as its only developing content for an established game engine. Time will tell how the ROF game engine can be tweaked, and handle WW2 complexities, but so far so good, as they slowly add content. The same holds true with DCS WW2 being developed on an established game engine. Their long term success will depend on how these games handle the amount of aircraft/objects required, offline gameplay, online multi-player gameplay, continued developer support/additional content, and mod community support.

I think CLod development suffered from very tight budgets all along, causing good people to leave the project(rumors..?). That in turn increased the development time, and never quite getting it done. Then releasing it unfinished with a pure bogus, about the minimum system requirements...its always been the money being the problem I think. Tuff business

All living things are "just" a bunch of arranged A, C, G and Us, are you going to tell me it's EASY to make (from scratch) an elephant? or a shrew? I think the shrew might be easier, but I'm not at all sure.

It's a very long time since anyone seriously worked at a senior level with 0s and 1s, you may have to cover them as a pupil, but even octal went out with 8 bit computers.

<edit>

So, this is a long ago post that I was replying to, sorry about that, but it still has to be said, computers are getting more difficult, and programming them becomes higher level to deal with the added complexity, yes it's all "0s and 1s" at the very lowest level, but you can't look at that level and make any sense of the things at all, unless you are God.

Agree it is good times!

This forum is not very much active anymore, but I do not post much except here, I read a lot what is happening at ATAG, there is much active posting there. MTO is coming for sure, there are the ships and subs already for this theatre, just when.

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/forum.php

Most at the moment I play Malta Mod for COD, which is good missions, and wait for the correct MTO.

And there is much active on the BOS forum. I have not boght into this alpha, I will wait for beta, but already there are many features and many flying. It is looking with good promise!

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/

Do not forget old IL2! There has just come the new 4.12 from Daidolos which gives the best AI ever the game has had.

The sim world is good and alive and for us who like WWII!

(But I don't mention DCS that one is an origami paper aeroplane who I think will never fly. I am glad I was not so quick to put money on that, if you read how people payed money but did not get the rewards they have promised.)

The point of the statement if you had quoted my whole post was that, any game engine code can be improved.

Its too early to tell how DCS WW2 will pan out. The good news is they have already created stuff for DCS, and are only creating more stuff on an established game engine.
Another positive is the new EDGE graphic engine currently being installed in the DCS game engine looks very good. Personally I received my P51 reward almost immediately after kickstarter finished. There definitely appears to be some confusion, on just what rewards, people are entitled too, and Luthier has been characteristically quite thru this process. And as usual his development team are having more than their fair share of setbacks, not to mention the long Russian Christmas/New years break. Hopefully things will get sorted when Luthier gets their website up and running.

Bingo! Thank you for navigating this topic through the misinformation and hubris. Very refreshing.

If it was that easy it would have been done long ago. TF has done a great job so far and I don't think they are done yet. Look forward to their future work.

Seems that DCS and BoS have been making some initial dents in the CloD player-base. I know of a couple of former CloD squadrons who have, for one reason or another, pretty much given up playing CloD now and have moved over to BoS or DCS.

However, that said, there do seem to be quite a lot of new players joining CloD. Last night, for example, there were 250 players online for a couple of hours, which isn't bad for CloD and is not terrible fewer than DCS had at similar time. I guess the challenge is to keep them playing Cliffs for longer than 18 months or so.

Hello in da house
 

Hello I have return to see what is happening in Cliffs of Dover after much happy time in Stalingrad.

That sim is OK but I have need for more historical single play so wish to hear is there more new single player for CloD now or for Team Fusion or for the original not Team Fusion version?

I have looked on ATAG and see there is some updates but also for the version which is not Team Fusion? I like a lot the Team Fusion version but also the not Team Fusion version runs well on my mashine so anything for that version is also well.

Thankyou!

Hi, I don't know what you mean by the not-team-fusion version.

Are you looking for extra single-player campaigns for the Vanilla game?

The single-player aspect of Cliffs is still very limited. I think improvements will come with TF5, maybe. The best experience is really online.....

planespotter, if you are playing singleplayer, please check out the desastersoft-campaigns.

www.desastersoft.de

Probably the best campaigns you can get for Cliffs of Dover.

I do DCS,, haven't decided if/when I will try BOS.. depends how much money... quality, and hardware..

Surprisingly:

http://s22.postimg.org/4d2xanezl/stats7.jpg
photo uploading

a bit biased, because the ATAG-Number shows all people playing CoD, including offline-people whereas the other site only shows multiplayer...

+1

I couldn't disagree more.

The new era of flight sims has been horribly flattened out because of this limited scope of development which excludes the interests of half the world.

Team Fusion is about the add the first American aircraft in the "new era of flight sims", the P-40E, and the F4F-3.

BoS has way too much development for simply one battle, in one era. Way too limited in scope, and the method is just not practical to expect to see other theaters of the air war come from that team.

BoS series is getting a P-40E this year too. So is DCS.

This is, I think, the most important point:

"BoS has way too much development for simply one battle, in one era. Way too limited in scope, and the method is just not practical to expect to see other theaters of the air war come from that team."

I never understood why the BoS was picked as a locale for a flight sim. Unless someone thought "The Great Patriotic War" wasn't getting due attention.

badfinger

Russian developers = Russian battle? Human nature, I suppose. And the Battle of Stalingrad is well known in Russia.

But it was a turning point, as was Midway and the Battle of Britain.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro

Yea but P51 won the war...................

:grin:

Allegedly...;)

There is still a large CoD community, though nothing like the glory days of hyperlobby and '46.
One group alone (ACG) has over 120 active members playing a battle of Britain campaign, and there's Storm of War campaign as well, which runs at weekends, and is always full. People shouldn't only think atag when thinking about Cliffs, there's a lot more out there.
Team Fusion are doing great work with what they have, with TF 5.0 just around the corner, with a new theatre! There's years left in the sim yet.

Amen, and we are always looking for pilots to build bigger and more massive scenarios with greater realism. We average 85 pilots per mission split between aliied and axis squadrons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzuu_dWhrO8

Check this WIP for our Ground Control system for Fighter Command, it's WIP and we are soon to use another version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbzNyi9UR_A

If you'd like this stuff for your squadron to do missions with please contact me at www.aircombatgroup.co.uk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA-_MaV3X08