the failure of clod is a failure of US ALL
 

the murder message for a kill in the console was an idea of mine, the panning of mouse insync with displacement as well

so something that had my colaboration failed, and i ask why?

wel all know:

HATE

ive done my good blowing the fire by posting some bizarre thing, well i learnt my lesson

seems the devs learnt since in the new forum you can totally ignore a user, if you ignore raaaaaid youll hear no longer about me since whole threads posted by the user are ignored

what do you think is the reason for the "hate" that destroyed OUR game? and lets pray doesnt destroy our world

me? too much tv and murdering games

Anyone got a spare ultra machine?

Raaid, I think the vicious "complaints" culture, nurtured especially in the UK by the gutter press, is responsible for the kind of tone some people find absolutely acceptable. But beyond that, it also seems to me that the rather sad haters just did it because they craved some kind of notoriety that their real lives couldn't give them. Big fish in a small pond syndrome...

I don't know anything about them in real life, thank god, but one thing is for sure: flight sim fans they are not. They are driven by destroying something, like pulling wings of a fly, and not by contributing to anything. The kind of people I've always steered well clear off in real life.

Freycinet, thats actually the best way I've seen it put yet anywhere , and I agree completely, the people you mention never seemed to realise the damage they were doing at the time, as has been said at the BOS forum they got what they wanted, sadly.

Your also right that they're definitely not flight sim fans, it's good to see that 777 is taking a strong line with these clowns.

Stop it Raaaaid you are making waaay too much sense lately!:grin:

Yay Raaid. No idea wtf you said. But have another wodka for me guy! Merry xmas.

I disagree, I think...?
If the product were solid there would have been no hate.

So what would have been best, to simply play long and ignore and cover up the laundry list of faults in the game or to be honest about it?

It was their responsibility to release a functional product. Not ours to eat whatever garbage they threw at us.

it is not a failure of us all...

it was a failure from the beggining
i remember myself to say it 1 year ago and someone says to me that they going to fix it and i don't know nothing.....well where are you now little fella.....
ho ho ho ho merry christmas to you all :grin::grin::grin:

If CloD had been released last year as an paid open beta -- pay $20 for the beta, with option to upgrade to release ver for $29 later -- it would have made all the difference and MG would still be working on The Sequel.

Instead they tried the sneaky used-car sales way and MG have paid the price. They gambled their reputation and lost.

You think? you think enough people would of brought COD full price after 18 months of patches to have made it worth while them making the sequel?

Not a chance, the last patch fixed the online lag, but they was almost no fixes for offline and that's where most people play.

I'm offline only. Been playing Heinkill's RAF Redux campaign and having no game bugs or glitches. Even won a medal :)

Even went as far as copying the campaign missions into a Single Mission subfolder to refly some of them: they are that much fun.

Rise of Flight have released their Channel Map. I paid $18 US for it. (About 12 Euros).

It is far less detailed than the Cliffs of Dover map. It's a stripped down version and also without London.

A poster on the RoF forum has commented that he trusts the RoF team to improve upon it with time and also iron out any bugs. There wasn't that kind of loyalty on this forum for Cliffs of Dover from many posters.

Why?

Agreed

And nope no loyalty from any of these trolling morons whatsoever, shocking given what they had been given if they could have opened up there eyes and had some foresight but these guys are utter morons. I agree these guys are not flight sim fans they are just a bunch of ******* idiots.

I think that would've been much better, to release as a pre-purchase beta. People would've bought it fully knowing that it wasn't a finished product and thus complaints would've been reduced to a more tolerable level. H*ll! the guys at ED and 777 are using that very model, here's a beta, it's not finished and it's a bit buggy but you can pre-purchase it if you want to at your own risk. I guess MG couldn't go that route, maybe Ubisoft told them to keep quiet. God knows what has happened at the 1c/MG offices the last few years but it sure would've been interesting to know.

The haters - some of whom still hang around in this thread - were loyal to their own deranged agenda, which was "criticize incessantly until you tire out everybody else from replying, and thereby "win" the argument."

Apart from loyalty to themselves and their own twisted thinking they don't know what the word loyalty means. Foreign concept to them.

But yeah, let's hear them explain what a great improvement the RoF Channel map is over the CoD one, whose colours they went on about ad absurdum...

Why?

Because if Jason says they are going to do something, they do it.
If they say its going to be fixed or going to be in the next patch, it is.

The patches or updates are on time, work with no or very little problems.

No flim flam, flannel or BS and no banjo vids.

They never said it would have london, its not a stripped down anything, its not a version of a COD map.

Its a ROF map, and its very good, looks like a English landscape and plays very well.

Thats why.

I resent staements like that..
The were plenty of us who put there trust in the 1c team and waited patiently for bugs to be ironed out.
The Finance was pulled because there was no faith in the ability of the team to fix it by the investors .

And investors would have seen this forum and seen only the moaning minority that have a large presence on this board and decided to pull the plug... simple fact.

Krupi, do you really believe that? i mean really?
You really think they pulled the plug on the sequel because of forum posts about COD?

They had a year to look at what Luthier had done for the sequel, all that work, all those models.
Do you think that if all that work and progress had been successful and it looked like the sequel was going to fix the problems, that 1C decided to ignore that and make the decision based on what a few people were posting about COD?

I cant honestly believe you really think that.

What has posts about COD got to do with a years work on the sequel?

Luthier had to meet the June milestone to show what they had done in that year....it wasn't enough.

Its that simple.

Yes I believe that it certainly factored into the equation that ultimately led to BoMs mothballing.

If it appears that a product doesn't have any support or audience then the shareholders will always go with the safer option.

They don't care about the product only about the money...

Its really that simple, CoDs failure will always be due to it being released in a mess but BoMs mothballing is due to a number of issues and one of them is the reaction of supposed "fans" of flight simulators... so yes its that simple.

Its THAT simple.

People were certainly vicious about the game and the Dev. Team but not without good reason. The game was dreadful when it was released and there was genuine disappointment in the community about a game we had been anticipating for years. I feel certain that with better communication with the community it may have been possible to turn thing around but of course that's easy to say in hindsight. Who knows what was really going on behind the scenes. What saddens me is the lost potential. The multiplayer side of the game is now highly functional and in my view maybe just two or three patches away from masterpiece status. If the game is to be left to die on the vine then that will be a very great shame and frankly, quite amazing.

refusing to do a 1944 plane set with p51 p47 and fw190 is just dumb, this plane set would have sold alot more copies and we all know this to be a fact!!!

I disagree. Nothing wrong with the BoB.
Besides, you do a 1944 sim you have a lot more planes/objects/maps to make. Way too much.

If they really wanted to have a hit, it would have been functional, and it would have been in North Africa.

Without polemics, and having been always a supporter of this sim, I cannot buy into the "blame the customer" theories.
The whole SoW-CloD-BoM venture is a perfect example of how not to run a project. Catastrophic mistakes were made years before the release, crippling the product beyond hope, and wasting huge amounts of money without any logic as we learned from former team members one year ago. The release of a broken product destroyed the credibility of the team and depressed the sales. I would say a word about Luthier's leadership, but kicking the loosers is not my cup of tea. He had the power, he had the time, he had the resources, he had the Il-2 name and reputation. He failed.

Let's watch at Jason's results, trying to suppress emotions and judge in an objective, dispassionate way their product, as a true flight sim fan should always do.

Best wishes,
Insuber

Only... your posts were never Clod related. ;)

Wrong. He had only maybe 6 months before release after Oleg was forced to leave by "anti-crisis management" and he had all 1C limitations and restrictions. I wonder how long 777 will last under these limitations before Jason and Loft leave (e.g. take 13 months budget only for BoS). They will have to make a deal with DCS next I guess.

Russian corporations are very different from western corporations.

Of course management primarily looks at sales and not forum postings. But OF COURSE an orchestrated campaign of hate is also going to affect sales. So many people have looked at my movies and commented, "wauw, this sim looks fantastic, but I only read online that it was crap, what gives?".

The haters really got what they wanted so dearly, the demise of the franchise, and now they try to pretend they played no part in it. Disgusting.

i didnt mean it was people fault

it was not my fault yet feel it like a personal failure as a flight sim fan

but not point pointing fingers

True, but once they bought it you can be sure they will share their opinion.

This game sucked all the way until the last patch, that's the truth - and you can't expect to successfully sell a minor grade product.
You could only delay the economical failure of such a product with positive propaganda - but you can never turn it away.

Your truth is not my truth, and I don't think you have a monopoly of "the truth", even though you present it like that ("that's the truth")

I thought it was fantastic from the first viewing, and it got progressively better with the patches.

Yes, sure, dissatisfied customers should vent their disapproval, but hating the sim and staying on the forums for two years, posting multiple times every day about that dissatisfaction like some of the haters in here?

- That's no longer being unhappy with a product that cost two movie tickets, that's a campaign of hate to make sure nobody else will be able to give the sim a go. What a waste of a life, but then again, it seems those people didn't really have one...

I would really have liked to give Battle of Moscow a go, but the haters did what they could to deny others that opportunity.

Here are the screenies of what we will never see... Oh rejoice, oh happiness, BOM was cancelled!

http://airwarfare.com/sow/index.php/...id=2#photoid=2

Must make every hater super-happy... Thanks god Luthier wasn't allowed to bring us cockpits like this... http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachmen...1&d=1340979063

In the state the product was you can NOT make customers happy. It starts with the system specs - they recommend a gtx260 while ppl even with most sophisticated(!) rigs couldnt play it without stutter.
Online play? Forget it, CTD.
Great, huh?

Now, imagine we all praised the game, do you think sales would have improved?
No, dissatisfied customers would only think we are nuts.

Is clod beautiful? Yes! and it's a friggin shame they cant fix, nonetheless it never worked liked it was supposed to.
It's like a wonderful handcrafted chef knife which is dull - nice to look at, but unable to do the job.
Unless someone fixes it - unfortunately the gave up, sux.
In the end it's all about the money, if you cant find someone to dump more money into it(and potentially burn it), you'll have to abandon it.
Btw; feel free to start a kickstarter project to finish Clod, its a free world.

The video you posted showed Clod in all its glory, really a sad end. Maybe some modders, one fine day...

Frey, i guess all the people who wrote a review must have been in on the "agenda" as well right?

Yer it was perfect out the box, you dont remember these very small problems then...

Epilepsy filter
Massive stutter over land at release
Full screen problems
Having to choose between sound and trees for 3 months
CTD's after 5-20mins for 4 months for over 50% of people
Floating ships
Crap offline campaigns
Non starting hurricanes
Crap AI
Sli...fixed in next driver release...(yer flippin right)



These problems were just made up and anyone who pointed these out were working in secret with 777 in a massive world wide conspiracy.

:rolleyes:

Every thing Furbs has said so far...all of it.
You can't turn a "sow's ear" into a "silk purse",
No matter how much time and money you put into it.
My mistake was misspending my money and time,
which has everything to do with this historical folly...

So...I'll be hanging out with the winning team...not the whining one.

My feelings also.

Now,we have a sim that's as good as RoF. Some may say better.

I've owned RoF since it's release and have bought most of the add-ons. I have no problem at all with RoF. I was flying last night on the new Channel map.

Cliffs of Dover was the future. It was a prototype of a unique and advanced product. It had faults,I agree. But when you raise the bar to the height Oleg went for,there will be faults.

I spent £50/$75 on the Collectors Edition.Far less than I've spent on RoF over all. And both are the best of the genre.


Best Regards,
MB_Avro

If the game was released silky smooth, that would indicate an engine that was something for today, but limited for tomorrow. bsure

This probably did more to kill it than all of the issues discussed here.
http://www.amazon.com/IL-2-Sturmovik...owViewpoints=0

Krupi, you have just demonstrated with this post how stupid you are, you cant fool me, I am The Bullcrapman. And you are talking BULLCRAP.

BULLCRAP, I am the bullcrapman, and you are talking BULLCRAP. We all know that you have no life outside of this game and we are sorry for you, really we are, now stop talking BULLCRAP and stop making those videos.

Well, sure is alot of people in on the "conspiracy" then.

lol indeed....I couldn't play the original Il2 on my rig. Oleg was looking further out to the future, probably 5/10 years for both games

I guess this is Trees 50th user ID, go ahead and argue with yourself again :rolleyes:

Correct. Tree, you would be better served on the new il2 forum.Its getting a bit embarrassing now.

must be a love hate thing :-P

Where did that witty and intelligent Bullcrapman go? i thought he spoke a lot of sense. :grin:

















Anyway...it wasn't Tree, im pretty sure it was his mum(reliable 3rd party source)

Whatever. He is not welcome on this forum, he has a new place to play in.

:)

Anyway, back on topic...

crap
Uther used the flush lever

Merry Xmas! No selection box this year Uther? :grin:

Ermm yea we all believe the reviews I suppose.

1.0 out of 5 stars Absolute disgrace by 1C CloD Official Forum, April 20, 2012
By
TruthHurts - See all my reviews
This review is from: IL-2 STURMOVIK: CLIFFS OF DOVER [Download] (Software Download)
I really enjoy this game, even though there are numerous bugs. I'm one of the lucky ones who can afford a decent computer. There is a huge amount of work to be done and the developers are still working on it.
The disgraceful part is that 1C Official Forum has asked that lies be told in false reviews to cover up the massive problems with Clod. There are a number of people in the Offical 1C Forum that are old men sitting behind computers, living their lives through computer games.
To anyone that reads reviews prior to buying a game, make sure you browse through all the reviews, especially when a large number are one star reviews.
The truth is that there is no guarantee that this game will be fixed. Until a patch is formally released and tested I would not advise you to purchase the game. A lot of the members on the 1C Offical Forum for CloD, who are asking members to lie in these reviews, also belittle those who purchase the game without reading reviews and then complain about how the game is 'broken'.
The only way to make sure that the next patch is working properly is not to take as gospel anything that 'Senior Members' say about it. Look for the Junior Members that don't post much. You'll see the ones who are old men playing games by their thousands of posts next to their Senior Member status. There are some Senior Members that will tell the truth but 1C Officil Forum Moderators are currently deleting their comments under the guise that the problems have already been spoken about. The problem with this is that those previous negative comments become extremely hard to find in amongst lies and mistruths.
Just be aware that the 1C Offical Forum is not the place to go to get a truthful review. These people are not from the the free world and have no problems in manipulating information. IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover

Made me laugh.....sadly.

Blimey, even Elvis only gave it one star on Amazon!:rolleyes:

well ROF transfer to WW2... god help us all!

and thanks to the 1C team to betray us AGAIN!

not enough hamburgers.

You would of thought Spitgirl would of pleased at least Elvis. :grin:

Nobody said CoD didn't have problems. It had lots of them, but the potential greatly overshadowed the problems and the many amazing things done right in the sim overshadowed the faults. Except to the nitwits who expected the sim to be perfect from the get-go and who mounted a hate campaign because it wasn't. I have nothing against the unhappy customers who vented their anger once or twice before throwing the sim in the bin. But I pity the psychos who spent two years daily slagging the sim in the most disgusting ways. Poor sods, you know who you are.

What a load of nonsense.

raaaid you were one of the biggest denyers of CoD potential not to mention your rambling ravings.

As for UK gutter press? That may be right in principle but when did they ever bother to publish here? It was not just UK forum users that denigrated CoD.

It failed because there was not the business potential under the current management. It was always going to be a risk. Huge development cost, possible lack of a coherent plan linked to available cutting edge expertise. CoD was always going to be cutting edge.

I think we are waiting for the next generation of developers and tools with the skills, foresight and ability to deliver the next generation flight/combat sim. History shows that nothing is beyond capability. It will come. Look back in 10 years time and it will be laughable. But don't expect to run it in a dual core Dx9 PC.

Tell that to 1C Frey, they pulled the plug, after a year of work on the sequel.
COD just didn't sell enough, most players are offline and stock COD offline is dire.

Was there a hate campaign in every country COD was released?


This is moot anyway, like flogging a dead horse, quite literally.

Yet you and Tree are still here flogging away, why?

I've started using CoD, seeing that it's not going to be (officially) improved/modded, and do you know what? .... I THINK IT'S GREAT!!
For so long, I kept it "on the shelf", because of:
- it's initial performance problems; and
- the massive amount of negativity that abounded on forums, such as this one.
I'm annoyed with myself for having been so misled about it!
Perhaps it was only CoD's last patch that got it right ... I don't know!
All I can say is that I'm now enjoying CoD very much!

Good for you! enjoy

A massively common story, as I can tell from the reactions I get from my movies. Anyway, this is my last post in this thread. It is impossible to get the last word against the hater brigade, especially their most stalwart members, so I'll leave it at this...

A flawed game killed the game, plain and simple. It promised more than it could deliver, required an insanely beefed up pc to run well, and fell flat in many aspects. Its over. We should not keep beating this dead horse, and move on to the next specacular game we can all moan about.

The real true is that CloD is dead, it was dead since before release, after years of development, my squads mates always said 1 year before release, that the game will fail due to the lack of video preview we recived, i always said that the game will be great, i was soooooo wrong, when i launch it first time after a month of pre order waiting (unfixable mistake) and after reading the first russians reviews i said this team will fix it son, everybody was told that the problem was the E-filter, and we all bought that, the first MG first big lie, were thos video with out sound, as those were made with the avi recording feature that record frame by frame an looks like the game runs perfectly, once i realized that i lost all hope on this game, when they start to turn off features in every patch, it was more obvious, all knows what every patch fix and broke more than fix, so now looking backwards you can esealy see that the sequel was a simply face cover to the real true, the game was already dead and the move to join forces with 777 studios was on the way (in my opinion that should be the great june anounce), after 7 years of development and a year in intensive cares the patient just stop breathing.

Now after see what i seen what 777 studios did with RoF, have complete confidence on that team well organized, and with good and kind comunication with the community i see we will get a great product
forums didn't kill this game, Oleg and co bad managment did it during development and before release.

In aviation terms: They tried to build an Airbus A380XXL with the team and resources of the Wright-Brothers.

And I'm honest: I'm glad it's over.
777 will make a fresh start and hopefully with one step at a time, rather than reinventing everything.


So, is it our fault?
No. Be it supporters like myself (at least in the beginning) or constant complainers. We all came here for the same hopes and reasons. Just with different ways to express our feelings. But you can't make a brick fly - no matter how loud or sweet you talk to it.

If you read Loft's posts on the new forum, you will know what's comming. Loft posted very early on about the lack of interest in accurate and advanced combat flight sim and praised those new arcade flying games made recently with the pay for every gauge and bolt bussines model.
The new game will be a far cry from anything we, il-2 players, take for granted. Online will suck due to limitations of the engine and fragmented community because of a lot of payware.
If you think BOS will follow on Il-2's foot steps you will be in for a surprise.

have you tried RoF???

The needs of the many were undermined by the ability of the few.

Many suggestions and bugs were completely ignored by the team as they tried to make us believe they were fixing (read as removing) features. The writing was on the wall, sadly some were illiterate.

Glad to see though that work continues in fixing Clod, shame it's through unofficial routes.

Time will show though that enthusiasts will resurrect and bring back to life a much less buggy CloD.

Good times are coming ;)

Have you read the Rof forums in the last few days.....

Your obviously not reading the forums there-or rather your reading a lot of stuff that isn't there.

Hey if your bound and determined to be miserable have at it. Were all looking forward to the release of a functional game-something CoD never was.

Jaws is spot on. I'd say you haven't been reading much.

Loft's answers have been - no we can't, no we are not going to, or maybe later, not at release. It's simple PR fluff as this will be simply a re-skinned ROF. If 777 cared so much about accuracy how come their sim has been out 4 years and the SE5A doesn't even have something as simple as trim?

It's obvious you don't know much about the sim or clod for that matter.

You guys are that hung up on clickable cockpits eh?

Your bias is making you see things that arent there. Lofts statement is that they have a plan, they are sticking to it, and they do not have time for various and sundry useless crap like clickable pits.

So here's what you have to complain about:

Its staying with DX9. DX9 is stable. DX9 works and is in very wide use. Best market share. Makes sense. No need for you guys to sell your friends down the river like you were ready to when the devs here couldn't make the game work with the specs on the box.

Unknown hybrid pay system. Thats as much as anyone knows, yet everyone here is convinced it'll be pay per gauge. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiight.

"13) Can we expect the clickable cockpits?
No. We create a simulation of air combat (this includes attacking ground targets). The pilot will only receive critical systems, propeller pitch, boost, altitude control, different mechanization, weapons and more. Procedural training device it will not be, it will be a game simulator. We would like to return to the original idea of ​​the "IL-2 Sturmovik", because we believe that it was great."

But they will be to a great extent animated. So what is wrong with this? its exactly what IL2 was and IL2 has been the sim gold standard for 10 years. CoD broke from that form and FAILED.

Controllable vehicles. WHO FREAKIN CARES! FLIGHT SIM!!! Lulz.

So thats the cliffs notes of the big whining issues of the dev diaries. Seems kinda petty no?

Back to shaking you magic 8 balls now.

EDIT: And the SE5A does have trim now, go play the latest release. Just another example of them actually fixing their sim, something that CoD never really got.

Sounds like a child got their toys taken away.

Why do you come here with that, go to the new forum and vent

Sorry, not in my book. Flying bombers or multi engined planes makes clickable pits very! important. Of course, if you stay with the I-16, then ok.

10 year old standard? Not what I want in 2014. There has to be improvement in BoS on every sim-relevant aspect over IL2. Maybe take DCS:P-51 as reference?

Most important features to me:

* flight model
* level of accuracy for operating the planes including engine management and radios
* dynamic weather
* believeable AI (includes ground control)
* dynamic and scripted coop/offline/online campaigns with career

We will see what 777 can deliver.

The only gripes I have with CloD (since the patch 07/2011) are:

* AI and radio comms (ruins offline play for me)
* disappearing contacts (ruins online play for me)

Very sadly Luthier concentrated their efforts in a graphic engine rewrite instead of fixing those.

certainly myself i didnt talk much about the game

rather playing that complaining and use the forum to chatty chat as i would in a pub

but my point is this is a failure for us and lucky us for 777 or wwii air sim would have disappear maybe forever

what happened is bad for us all as simmers and many people are masochistically happy and were praying for this end

imagine this type of guy whith a psicology of i harm myself to harm others to feel good get access to the buttom

what all you can't see that Oleg and Luthier did a totally wrong manage on the project, was their failure not us, it's all their fault, for promisng things that couldn't be achieve and then lies and silence, that's not the way to manage a project and reply to paying costumers, and the saddest is people here keep refering them as some kind of untochable allmighty and wise gods. They fail at their task horrendously and CloD is over now, end of story.
Now just keep going foward and support 777 ontheir new project, oleg and luthier are gone and they are not comming back tomorrow with a version of CloD with all the things their promised and lied about all this years of development.

Maybe their fatal fault was they actually DID listen to us.
Way too much time wasted for rivet counting and other peripheral stuff, while losing focus for the important stuff, i.e. supplying a working title that sells, even if the rivet counters are not happy with the historical accuracy(at release date - if it sells, you got money for later improvements).

You could not be more correct. The Battle of Britian has been done to death. To annoucne the next instatllment , essentially( BOM) BOB -East was equally as poor business decesion. The battle for Stalingrad does nothing for me either. Aparently I'm am in the majority. If there is any truth to Korea this would be infinately more interesting than any eatern front scenario.

The three most important turning points of WW2 were as follows:

Battle of Britain

Stalingrad

Midway

And as agreed by most historians. You are not in the majority.

Debatable, and a matter of perspective. However, the the absolute turning point of WW II was when the Japanses bomber Pearil Harbor, it was more significant then all three combined. Coupled with the ignorance of Germany declaring war on the US .

The Battle of Midway is the only one of your three that will make interesting and diverse flight sim.

In your personal opinion.

I found CloD to be a interesting and diverse flight sim experience, I just went into it not expecting to take a slight of P-38's up against a flight of FW-190's.

It is all about personal taste and realistic expectations, your idea of interesting is yours as is the same with anyone else.

Well said, could not agree more, I feel much better 777 has the project, as I have seen what they CAN do and not what they endlessly PROMISE to do. May not be all the bells and whistles of Clod as planned, but in the long run, if it it does not work well, any game, its not gonna fly off the shelf, no pun intended.

I think Luthier sums it up best....(notice no blame of forum posters)...

Project lead Ilya Yevchenko...
"The situation sucks. I see no reason to sugarcoat it with bull. I don't want to go make empty promises or try to prove that black is white. We released a faulty game. We did more than even seemed possible to fix its faults and add improvements, but in the end it was not enough."

CLoD was killed by its management. The biggest mistake was LYING at the release, pretending that HUGE problems that were in the game didnt exist. In Russia, they paid Kanobu game review site to review the game like HUGE problems did not exist. It was very-very bad psychology and very bad PR -and it was management's fault. PR remained horrible for the rest of the 1.5years.

And then there was managment problem with keeping focus on what Il2 was about. Oleg gave in to clickable pits demands (which drove costs/complexity - did you ever wonder why DCS sims are ONE plane games?), LOD problems were never given priority, FMs are very iffy still- landing a plane might as well happen in Blazing Angels, crazy collisions, AI was dumb and also had ability to do super fast barrel rolls, Sinlge player (90% of customer base according to Loft) was ABYSMAL, draw distance is horrible (nice graphics huh?)... What were they thinking? And to release it sneakily (not as a beta - people would forgive everything to beta! ANd most would buy it still- can you remember the hype?)

Haters were horrible as well, but "Ilya with his talented management lads" has certainly fuelled the fires- and thus takes nearly all responsibility.

I was really scared that CLoD would be the Silent Hunter 5 of flight sims - a DEAD END. Boy, are we lucky that there was another way... Last year I was also campaigning against the haters, explaining that "yes, its bad, but if we loose it we'll end up with with abandoned franchise that nobody will replace for many years". I now see that I was fighting wind mills, they way CloD was handled from the top, it could not have happened any other way.


B6 recently said that Afrika was discussed but rejected due to complexity of models needed for the Navy of the theatre. I thought that Afrika was easy money as well, but apparently not...

I bought the software the day it was released, and suggested it to other 20 guys.
Then I waited half a year to see how the development was going on before I turned on CloD realizing that the issues were not "bugs" to be fixed...

I don't feel I'm guilty.

What again, raaaid? Are you already belonging to the big crowd of guys, who accept buggy releases? For sure, in such a genre, people accept more faults and we all did.

But after promises of fixing, the time it took and the bad set up comunity work forced many of us to get mad and in my opinion, totally understandable!!

But what forced them to bury the game? No money and no community playing it. But this is also their fault. They exactly know, that comunity work is essential and that the game has to go in a direction, where a comunity can actively take place. They never heard on things like: we need tools to create our flight evenings. They never asked into deep, what a comunity needs to fill servers.

So it for sure has nothing to do with any angry guy. It has to do something with the gamestate, the bad situation for all of us (and also them) in bug fixing, all the engine issues and then the totally wasted approach, which was simply too late to let them make any more benefit with this game. There were thousands of guys havin clod and just waiting to get the same possibilities like in il2 to switch to this game.

But now it is too late. I can understand the haters currently, I can understand the decision of 1C and I can understand the guys trying to do the best out of this situation. But I cannot understand your "raaaid" on a couple of people and giving them a bash. Sorry, but this is normally rediculous to talk about such a posting.

We are already in a situation, where we accept by far more bugs than ever before. It has to do with complexities of the games, but I think, that we are accepting enough bad issues in any game! :)

If CoD had had the same tolerance and willingness to spend money by its fans that RoF had, the bean counters at 1c might have decided differently.
But the expectations were too high, by the fans and the bean counters, and the time frame too limited to make CoD an profitable base.
Just remember, RoF complete, at the actual christmas sale, is about 287 Dollars.
Makes one wonder what CoD could have become when the income were quadrupled, at least.
But here the majority was whining abot 30, 50 or in some cases 70 Dollars,

That is a considerable price tag for ROF :shock:

Yep, and its kicking off on the RoF forum, because the new update introduced a serious soundbug online, and turning off tree's don't fix it...
Oh well, the new map only cost me $20, the Felix another $12.99, and another $20 or so on weapons mods and compasses this week. I can wait. :rolleyes:
I'm hoping one day they will fix the FM's for some of the planes I bought but whats another year or two eh.
Can't wait for the new il2.

Hmmmm this thread explains a lot ... Some of the drama in this thread is like a Lifetime Movie.

Do you have to buy every plane and every map and every nut and bolt and add on? How much of what you buy do you actually sepnd time flying? That should be the question asked before purchasing anything new under this business model.. To buy it just because it is there is ... something I will not do.

+1

In ROF I've bought about 8 planes plus the Channel map (Plus the initial game when it first was for sale).

The planes I've bought have only been the ones I'm interested in and no one has pressured me into buying anything I haven't wanted.

IMHO, as a business model, it's not bad because it gives us the opportunity to give a ongoing support to the developer without having to pay a monthly fee (which would out of the question for me at least - not into that sort of thing)

I have never regretted spending a single cent on any of the IL2 series (in fact I probably made the computer and gaming shop sales assistants lives hell in the weeks before the games hit thew shelves) because each and everyone of them brought massive improvements.

Hopefully this will continue in the future of the series!

If people are willing to fork out $1500, $2000, $2500 for a new PC to make a sim work, then wouldn't it sound plausable that we'd probably fork out over $300 (easy) for a flight sim that works (and meets most demands re: complexity, looks, realism, etc,.)?

At this point the "Domestic Bliss" factor enters into the equation.

It is easier to justify spending $20 every couple of months over couple of years than spending $300 outright on a computer game.

take my word for it! ;)

I think robtek's bigger point was IL-2 was dirt cheap, if had the ROF sales model they may have survived...and so I have to ask what you would not have bought in IL-2 1946 :-P

I would not pay for planes like in 1946 as I don´t pay for planes like in RoF. But I certainly would pay for planes with the detail level of the 109 , Hurry or Spit in CoD to be flown in an amazing CoD like enviroment.

Good for you, but you were in the minority. You can't argue against the results.
The BOB was a poor choice to begin " the next generation of flight sim ", it was executed and managed poorly as well. The vast majority of the sales are purchased by individuals who play single player offline campaign and mission building.

+1

Yeah but... THAT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN..

??

+1

and it has less to do with anyone on these boards.. If you think the .. and I am using an inflated arbitrary number just to make a point.. that the 60 most vocal critics of CoD on these boards had more of an impact that the reviews on every PC game site and every online store review (granted some of them may have been the same people) then you are kidding your selves. None of us are that important. For that fortunate few who never had any issues with the sim great for them.. but for the vast majority who were more than willing and in many cases did plunk down good money on day 1 it was not fun.

+1 (of course, fixing fm's doesn't bring in the dollars like new planes and maps).

some people, ahem, really need to go over to the RoF forums and educate themselves even just a little bit......

Agreed, COD might have been a mess but at least they tried to fix things... That doesn't seem to be the case with 777.

Yes, look how that worked out for them. I'd rather have had them spend some resources on churning out some new DLC flyables or something instead of making sure that every single, little FM whiner could go to sleep at night so that the rest of us who weren't spending whole days on these boards could get some fresh content for us to play with! PHEEEEW! It's called making money but in the sim developers world it's called SURVIVING.