Pilot kill after pilot kill. How do they do it??
 

Well we had had quite a break on the ATAG server while certain pilots had an extended break but now they are back and getting something like a 95% pilot kill rate...u know, you are in a dogfight and then ur screen suddenly goes black.
These guys are all of one nationality and are all on the same TS server together and do work well together. But PK after PK after PK and often in quick succession. Is it wrong to start asking questions??
Had one of them PK me twice on the server today while I was pulling fast moves in IIa and would have been a difficult target just to hit let alone PK and I mean no bullets whizzing by or anything just a sudden black PK screen both times. I know a lot of u fly 109s and blue exclusively and just wonder if any1 can explain how even a good pilot can pull this off 95% of the time LEGITIMATELY ? Please help me out. I fly a 109 every now and then and can't for the life of me work out how u could do it routinely. I know u can get a headshot hack in 1st person shooters (seen it often enuff) but is it possible something like this is being used in CloD ? It would be good if we could have a level headed discussion about this and not turn it into a flame war and have the thread deleted. If there is something dodgy happening then it has the potential do a lot of damage to the community.

It is possible depends on the pilot/loadout/patience :)

I honestly dont think there is any cheating going on in CLOD. As a 109 driver alone I am amazed(coming from warclouds in il2) how easy some red flyers go down in this game. Situational awareness seems gone. Turns that give a perfect setup and perfect target. I was on for 3h yesterday and only once did i even get shot at... I did cause a few PK but it seems to be more luck than anything! Maybe something in the new patch?? I cant remembee causing so many PK before. Saying that, also the 109 seems more sensitive to PKs...

100% AP rounds and shooting at convergence (see convergence settings below the video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zczgd...hannel&list=UL

It is easier to do this with E1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSIj6AfOh4M&feature=plcp

Ataros are you Mr X?

That is the rumor now :-P

No, but I like his tactics and shooting skills and asked him about convergence, loadouts, etc.

He uses 50% non-linear setting in elevator BTW. Good for shooting but not good for stall-fighting. He was not very good in a 1 vs. 1 championship BTW probably because of this.

His video thread on the forum http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=29379 (good training videos but mostly in Russian)

well, there is definitely some cheating going on...
ive seen for example a spit with only one wing turning like crazy for about 10minutes, while about 10 109s were shooting at it on ATAG above Folkstone...
it just didnt go down...it turned like it didnt had no damage at all...it only went down when i managed to kill the pilot....this was approximately 3months ago...

on the same day one of our RAF pilots told us, that they have seen a 109 flying with supersonic speeds around shooting like crazy...

...but about the pilotkills...well maybe they are just good pilots, have a good loadout and are skilled in aiming...

in 1946 people would make the head of pilot a 10 meter sphere.

given how easy it is to hack Cod, i wouldnt be surprised same is happening.

This all sounds like lag to me...

Why would they do that Pupo. Only the person with cheat install would benefit from it. So if u wanted to fly around with a 10m head be my guest but u cant make everyone elses head 10m in size!

People play single player and feel themselves as absolute aces and then the rude awakening of the multilayer brings them down a notch and produces cognitive dissonance that leads to them talking about cheating... People are much better than the AI ok? :)

Its the same story with BF3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBFZh...&feature=g-u-u

There are quite a lot of people who are AWESOMELY better then you, just admit it and try to improve. If you give a firing solution to your enemy, expect to die - simple as.

As Ataros suggests I's say that probably getting the right ammo belt could increase the percentage of PK. Much more "gaming the game" than cheating, as those loadouts are probably not historically correct. My two cents.

well, in 1946 it was possible. it may be possible in COD. i dotn really hack so dont ask me how.

all im saying is that i wouldnt be surprise if the game was being hacked, and VAC was not working.

lag

10min lag while the spit turns perfectly?no warping or whatsoever...?

This.

Maybe not historically correct but since Spitfires do not burn there is little point in bringing incendiary to a fight.

What its will be good is like counter strike, the last 5-15 second in reply when you are shooting down in the enemy view

Pilot Skills
 

I agree with this sentiment. I know I have to improve both my flying and dogfighting/aiming skills in order to survive online.

Situation awareness is of paramount importance. It's difficult to spot other planes in the first instance and even then to identify a friend from foe is never easy. You have to get up close to check out the plane you are targetting and so your concentration is 100% on that aspect. Check your six and your eyes can easily lose track of the plane you were originally flying towards. This is surely close to reality? How many actual WW2 pilots were shot out of the sky without even knowing what hit them?

I really like to hear other pilots on teamspeak who seem to work in teams and support each other. Fundamentally, the need to fly with a wingman was almost a given in real combat. Personally, I would love to be good enough to fly in close formation with others and therefore support each other in spotting, targetting and engaging enemy aircraft. It would be good if we "regrouped" at a given point after combat and therefore, hopefully live a bit longer?

Too often there are lone "maverick" pilots (me included) flying about without any coordination. Suddenly, you are attacked by a "better" pilot or, simply, he has seen you first, and - game over.

I recall a note from one poster who said it took a year or two in IL2 to perfect flying skills and dogfighting. I can well believe it.

I don't know enough about the potential for cheating to comment. I just accept that I have a lot to learn and believe that "practice makes perfect" to be the only way forward:!:

Communication is the key. Fly alone and you are gonna die!:(

Also don't forget some people already have 100's even thousands of hours already flying one particular aircraft in CoD, so anyone with less than that is going to be at a disadvantage.

Aim at the cockpit. MG fire from a 109 is extremely effective, I really like the 2 machineguns in the nose. PIlot is often exposed in break-turn so PK is very likely. There is no alchemy in that.

Borsch, I have over a thousand hours pretty much all on the ATAG server and am very happy to admit that there are plenty who are awesomely better than me. What I am referring to is a very small group who rarely get anything other than a pilot kill and can get them in quick succession. I don't see any1 else who can amass the sheer number of kills in any given server session so quickly. Admittedly they rarely bother to land their planes but just ditch them and get a new plane to get back into the action...just what u like to see in a full realism sim. If AP loadouts, tweaked convergences, low monitor resolution and great flying skill is what is happening then ok. I don't have the expertise needed to know what can be "altered" by knowledgeable people but I know a fair few good 109 pilots who can't hold a candle to these guys. One flight sim I flew years ago was hacked to pieces by a programmer who could assign any hit power value to his ammo loadout so u were dead if any bullet hit ur plane. At least he was up font about it but what I greatly fear is that we are not all played for fools and we have our d'oh moment down the track and say "it looked like a duck and quacked like a duck" but we insisted it was all good.
I guess u really have to be in the ATAG server when these guys are on to appreciate where I'm coming from and I'm not sure how often u get in there.

Kind of the point I am trying to make. Do all that and with difficulty u will end up with 5 or 6 kills in any given server session, sometimes more. When u can get 5 or 6 kills in 10 mins then people are gonna wonder.

You're suggesting that there is a group of pilots, apparently from Russia, who are too good to be legit. Would you mind providing the nicknames?

I often fly practice on Russian minced meat servers like Repka No.4 and some of the local guys are ridiculously good pilots and shots. I know several other pilots who would PK you when you blink and they are not Russian and there is certainly nothing else than skill in that.

Just come into the server on a regular basis and u will soon see for yourself and make your own assessment.

Do you fly with an open canopy, if you do I think it's only right that you are more susceptible to pks.

i guess so as well. Thats what you get when flying cabriolet:P

Winger

To the OPs if original question....armour piercing rounds and already stated E1 can fire 4mgs worth...

Be grateful the Beos don't work online where we could set fire to your aircraft..shocking that they don't but hey ho as I'd rather load them up tbh

I do actually, that's why I am asking. :eek:

Open canopy or not, if you get it in the cockpit you're dead. The bullets won't bounce off the glass. Same PK with 109 when they expose the canopy in a climb or in a turn and hold your the piper in there and hose him down.

I don't fly with an open canopy and since canopy drag has been introduced I don't know many who do now.

It is very easy to do PKs with E1 and tungsten carbide load out. You don't even need to aim for glass. Aiming at belly or even from dead six does just fine.

This...^

Very effective ammo type

He does not cheat. He probably has over 2000 hours and VAC is enabled now. Getting a PK is much easier with AP it go right though everything even from dead 6.

How can u tell if VAC is on or not now ?

Do any of these pilots carry the tag =FB=?

I fly RoF and CoD. There are quite a few Russian pilots (and a few Germans) that are that good. In both sims, although not sure if they'd take the time to fool around on an American server.

They don't cheat. They train exceptionally hard, only take in a very tiny percentage of squad applicants and spend a lot of time flying (versus posting, testing, tweaking, making movies, skins or anything else).

There are Americans this good too - most have not shown back up from Il2.

Take a look at this - http://riseofflight.com/en/community...rd/Multiplayer

Look at the top 15. Then look for the guys with the best K to D.

=FB= Vaal 3.57: 1 - 576 hours flight time
=FB= Viks 3.84: 1 - 323 hours
kim 5.12:1 - 191 hours
(Winger is up there too :) )

Now think about how much you fly. How many Americans have 300 to 500 hours online time?

The Russians have always dominated these type of Combat Flight Sims. This is a sport to them. They take it very very seriously and they are the toughest adversaries you will face (this thread is a good example of their skill).

They have their weaknesses, but it's not 2 v 2 skills. They are the very best in the world at 2 v 2 - Air to Air.

^^ agree...it is amazing how good some pilots are on-line

We're too few to hack
 

I'm sure there are plenty of vulnerabilities in CloD, an obvious one is unencrypted packets.
But the most likely answer is there are many other games with a far bigger fan base and the small minority of gamers who get a thrill from cheating day-after-day and investing effort to crack a game will be on those, not CloD.

56RAF_phoenix

S!

Some Russian squads and pilots are exceptionally good ones, like Flying Barans with VikS and all. I would regard FB as the best one, at least in original IL-2. ROSS was medicore, they were caught outright cheating in IL-2 online wars. Some their pilots were OK. Mr.X seemed to have good SA and shoots very well. Add to this the all-AP belting and PKs do happen and a lot.

About cheating. The best cheater is not the most easily seen one. That individual changes only something that gives and edge, but not too much so it can be so easily spotted. Most of it can be put to lag or similar if well done and no-one would suspect cheating. There has always been and always will be cheating and I do not expect CoD to be any different due it's easy to manipulate file structure.

Online flying is hard and requires a lot of training. Unfortunately have no time or much passion to do that these days so merely a target drone :D But for a strictly offline player online is hell unless has natural talent.

When flying OFFLINE you get used to flying with target drones. :)

5 kills in 10 minutes? This vid has 5 kills in 5 minutes and is typical kind of vid for his channel. (@7:35) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8HCMXE4AdE&feature=plcp In recent Il2:Clod Championship the author of the vids and an unquestionably fantastic pilot Mr.X was knocked out in the second round having been completely outclassed. Just to show how good a players play this game. Now that patch is out people commented that some all time greatest il2 pilots appeared on ATAG - like =FB=Arhangel...

Forget about cheating, it will only mess with your mind. Or play RoF - definitly no cheating there (official!), but few people still dominate in exactly the same manner.

Personally speaking, I never use the cannon's they are just too lethal on-line or off. Still there is a lot to be admired of the positioning and the target leading that goes on.

online is easier than offline:

offline target doing difficult scissors

online target doing predictable hard turn

Here's his vid with canonless E1 on ATAG. Practically all kills are PKs :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSIj6AfOh4M&feature=plcp

Predicable scissors and hard turns are difficult?

Sorry, I think you havn't been playing enough online... For one, you can't turn evade your enemies by turning hard.

Not making any accusations, just relating my experience which is contrary to the above.

In my experience in fighting Mr X, he uses stall fighting almost exclusively to escape defensive situations.

If you get on his tail with similar E, he will begin by using mild rollrate maneuvers to try to bleed speed from the opponent on his tail, then escalates to full horizontal scissors, culminating in semi-vertical scissor stall fight technique in attempts to get opponent to stall out in nose high attitude.

Mr X definitely does head shoot a lot. I was the recipient twice on Sunday, once completely my fault, when I was dragged and bagged by Mr X and another of his wingmen. (or maybe not a wingman, perhaps Mr X just took advantage of a situation where I was too focused) 2nd after we had extended fight, and lost sight for a brief second, he got behind for a second and shot.

So far haven't killed him yet, although that is more my fault than his, had several opportunities when my shooting wasn't up to par, or when so close my convergence was going either side of his cockpit. Certainly put bullets into him. He isn't invulnerable although he will rarely give you an easy shot. Especially as for example in the Dunkirk setup on the ATAG server, where the E-1/E-3's are the class of the available aircraft. I was flying a Rotol Hurricane 87 octane in my fights with him, would have done better in a Spitfire IA.

That is better, thank you...he has much talent:)

AFAIK FB_Viks was one of the original developers for RISE OF FLIGHT, later bought out by 777 Group. I believe many members of FB were on Beta teams.

He also knows the IL-2 code very well, his group originally had a deal with 1C Maddox to purchase a revised version of the code in the predecessor to RISE OF FLIGHT, but the developers changed their mind after much experimentation with the IL-2 code, the Sim was renamed RoF, and published with an in-house original code.

The video shows exactly the technique he commonly uses to get most of his kills.

Not a lot fancy maneuvering, an approach at altitude and speed, a quick sweep of the area of the Dunkirk field, looking for taking off and landing aircraft at lower alts and speed, a dive and single pass kill. When he has to make a couple passes, the usual zoom into vector roll and back down for another pass. He'll make his escape when he sees someone approaching co-alt or energy.

Most of these kills are due to failure on the part of the British pilot to notice their attacker, giving an easy 5/6/7 o'clock shot.

Notice the fact the angle on for many of the firing passes is such that pilot armour should, in my estimation, be a factor if he is only using MG rounds, but not sure whether armour is actually modelled, or whether the coverage or protection is accurate for British aircraft, so much of the modelling of this nationality has been completely wrong.

Historically British pilot armour would defeat 7.92 mm MG rounds, but not cannon.

Easy against the RAF, not so easy against another 109.

There are some even better pilots from Russia and other countries, just look up the tournament roster ;)

Torian I wholly agree with you on this subject. I've never been one to call "cheat" in online games, as I know for sure people are better than me at many games...but when the evidence presents itself in such a way, it's hard not to wonder.

To anyone that is speaking in absolution about no one cheating, don't kid yourself. It is entirely, completely, and utterly probable that there are cheaters out there playing CloD...it's a piece of software just like any other and VAC is not the end-all cheat prevention. With 1C's apparent limited resources in regards to coding this game, I doubt there was any attention paid to cheat prevention other than the obvious and "along-the-way" sort of fixes.

Like I said, I'm not one to ever accuse of cheats/hacks, unless its painfully obvious (as seen in some Battlefield 3 games) but my vote is that this group is up to something...and it's evident by noting what gets damaged on your aircraft before you are PK'd. There have been several occasions where nothing, and I mean NOTHING gets hit on my aircraft except my pilot from a shot that was ~200m-500m away. No damage, no hitsound, no systems failure messages, decals, tracers, just black screen. To believe that someone can repeatedly pull a pilot killing sniper shot off on a REGULAR basis from a moving aircraft at range is questionable to say the least.

And please take into account there are multiple people saying this. Torian and I are not the only ones noting something fishy, obviously.

I agree there are good pilots/players out there, but this is extremely suspect.

I would suggest you provide proof in the form of videos and screenshots.

Otherwise it is just speculation.

Unfortunately, I do not have proof, and this is speculation.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

As I'm not in the position to take action against said pilots, my producing proof is irrelevant, and a moot point. I'm stating what I believe is true and that the OP is not alone in this matter.

Far from true.

If you produced convincing proof, you could undoubtedly get these pilots banned on the popular servers.

Otherwise you are just casting doubt on the integrity of the pilots, without providing any facts. Kinda like certain political techniques best not mentioned.

And we don't need politics on this forum...

Aborted,

Just to clarify...
Every pilot is in a position to take action on ATAG. All that is needed is to submit proof of any claims and such proof will be evaluated and actions taken if necessary.

In this particular case, I believe no one has any proof of wrongdoing hence no action is taking place.

Above statement aside, I personally think he's a very good shot and doubt there's cheating involved but I have no problem whatsoever of being proven wrong.

Colander,

Of course, if I were to come upon information that could prove that something was being exploited I would make the effort to report through the appropriate channels. I meant I'm not in the position to acquire such information, as in, proof is unattainable to me through conventional (and legal) means.

Please tell me that the people in this thread are not oblivious to the possibility of cheats being used online. I understand that no one wants to slander another or compromise the integrity of another player, but don't let that cloud your vision of the *possibility* of foul play.

The possibility exists and that is the reason we are talking about providing proof. If there was no such possibility, this whole thread would be moot :grin:

One thing I really regret is that track recording is causing disconnects. Recording the missions on the server would be the ideal way to acquire proof of cheat/no cheat and/or discover others that no one might have noticed.

Sadly, recording in the server will cause every one to get disconnected (I tried it some time ago).

Have the developers confirmed this?

I think it can not stop tungsten AP rounds. If you load 100% AP this makes pilot completely unprotected, as if he sits in the air without any cover I guess. Thus PK comes with the first bullet that hits aircraft body.

In reality, aricraft weren't armoured, except for IL2 (cannot wait :) ) .. any well aimed shots are going to hit the pilot especially for early, unarmoured aircraft.

Plus, i have force-feedback joystick, trying to out-fly someone without a FF would probably be futile ??? yes ? no ?

Cannot wait for the AI to be fixed so historic offline campaigns can be made .. :grin:

.

Actually you can record, I did quite a bit of online testing on your server, during which I recorded, but the times I did so, there were only 10-15 pilots online. Haven't tried when there is the usual high point of 40+ pilots

And how many Tungsten rounds were used historically? Are you suggesting this was the standard loadout for the 7.92mm MG's?

I don't think so. This was a relatively rare strategic metal, not available in Germany, usually reserved for application in Anti-Tank rounds, in this time period for the 37mm and later for the 50mm.

It's typical of a 1C product that you have these options in terms of loadout or aircraft, which can be selected without any penalty or restriction, and which completely unbalance the game.

So you have the situation whereby people are flying E-1's in preference to E-3's because the armament is more effective... Complete nonsense.

Why did the historical Luftwaffe replace the wing 7.92's with 20mm if they were no more effective?

Spitfire and Hurricane both had seat back armour standard after July of 1940, this was not the Soviet airforce.

The Hurricane and Spitfires are shown as having the weight of an aircraft with pilot and fuel tank armour.

and as far as the pk after pk after pk it can be done, but in my exp even talking to alot of good flyers only way to get a 95% pk like that is to make the damage area of your bullet larger and you can hit them in the wing and get a pk.

and yes i have flown both blue and red and in 46 and in clod im not bad i can also prove that it is easy to cheat but that backfired on me before and not goin that rout again.

i do know that some of the people mr x fly's with have been kicked and band from servers for cheating in 1946.

i look at it as birds of a feather flock together LOL

Yes from behind, but as the reds know they have a superior turn rate which means that the default move is almost always to pull back on the stick to try and get away from the 109 which just puts it at the perfect angle to make all that lovely armour irrelevant :|

I love all this talk of cheating. I have been flying online for several years and have never seen anything that I consider cheating. Maybe that's because I wouldn't consider cheating? Hmmmmmm.

PK
 

My two bobs worth! Having been on the wrong end of MK MR X's gunnery a number of times, I take my hat off to him. His videos show that it is no fluke, in red or blue planes. Obviously he has invested considerable hours of thoughtful practice to get that good.

Flying with my squad I have experienced some success against MK MR X - albeit he was flying Red (latest patch) and our blue flight outnumbered the red aircraft. So even the best individual flyer can be overcome by a team.

Appreciate that hacking code to turn one's aircraft into an uber-plane is probably not impossible. But if you were anywhere near as good as the videos attest why would you bother.

The fact is that they are just good pilots...probably don't post much, just keep flying developing their skills. From the example vids, one would conclude that the pilot has very good tracking skills/ability to position himself. He does just as well when he is flying Red, go figure

Same here BadAim, especially in a simulator, but people are strange.

It's be foolish to assume there are no cheats in an online game, in what is essentially an uncontrolled environment (coding-wise) such as Cliffs of Dover.

I've seen cheaters in ArmA2 cooperative missions, even...a game that's about the activity of teamwork, not kills.

Salute

An acknowledged expert on Weapons in general, and Air to Air weapons specifically is Anthony Williams, who has been published multiple times and has a website here:

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/miltech.htm

On the site is an article which deals specifically with the armament of the different sides in the Battle of Britain, and which goes into detail on the effectiveness of these weapons.

There is ZERO mention of tungsten cored 7.92mm ammunition being readily available. The article does mention the 20mm M-Geschoss round.

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/BoB.htm

An analysis of the effectiveness of the British 7.7mm and German 7.92mm rounds shows them as similar in armour penetration.

A British study during the same period found the effectiveness of these light MG rounds in penetrating pilot armour was poor:

From Mr. Williams article:

No mention of tungsten core bullets ripping through pilot armour there.

Wikipedia in reference 7.92mm AP rounds notes:

No indication as to when tungsten rounds were available, and clear indication those which may have had tungsten in the core were rare.

For the Germans to have been given unlimited numbers of 'magic bullets' is clearly wrong.

But just another one of the many botched aspects of this Sim.

Well we apparently now have an answer for the OP's question...

The German 'Magic' Tungsten round.

Heh, if it were only that simple. Though it may be a factor, I hardly believe its a matter of ammo loadouts. If this were the case, there'd be a slew of this sort of pilot in question.

So what you're saying is, your source gives no concrete info. The most you can infer from your quoted passage is that the tungsten-carbide rounds were less common than the standard hardened steel AP rounds.

Cool, thanks for editorializing it as a magic bullet. :rolleyes:

In any case, whether that ammunition was effective/available or not does not give solid evidence that it was correctly modeled as such in the game...and still doesn't give an explanation as to why/how certain pilots are able to hit ONLY the pilot from 200m+.

You have 2 choices:

1)Prove that they're ONLY hitting the pilot from 200m+

2)Stop talking

If you can't prove it, you're just another noob getting his wings clipped online, crying about cheats rather than learning to fly. So, once again, prove it or shut up.

Have you considered the possiblity that these guys are just really good, and you're just really bad?

You're a wonderful human being with fantastic qualities and deserve to be loved like anyone else.

Salute

You obviously didn't bother reading my entire set of posts, or perhaps you decided to ignore the content.

1. I have quoted a British test which used captured German ammunition loadouts, and which shows 1% penetration of pilot armour, and makes no mention of special tungsten rounds.

2. I have linked to Anthony Williams article on the Battle of Britain, which deals with the ammunition used by either side, and which makes no mention of Tungsten cored rounds.

3. I quoted from the Wiki article, which notes only at some point tungsten rounds were built, but also they were not common, and doesn't give a time frame.

4. I have pointed out the Germans implemented as quickly as possible, a policy of converting from 7.92 mm wing weapons to the 20 mm FF, why would this policy be in place if the 7.92mm was as effective as it seems to be in the game?

I think it is up to you actually to prove these rounds were in general use during the BoB, available in large quantities, and had the penetrative abilities which seem to be in effect in the game.

To suggest that a round which has the same propellant charge would have suddenly the capability to automatically penetrate the same armour which only 99% of the standard German AP rounds, with the same propellant could not, could seems to me to call for proof.

Right now you are arguing for their inclusion when it's clear their effectiveness runs contrary to all the available facts.

All you have done in your reply is to show you have nothing in way of substantive proof to argue for their inclusion in the game.

Uhh, I mean this in the politest of ways, but I think you're losing track of what the OP is about...and I'm not sure why the historical effectiveness and availability of the tungsten AP round is being brought to attention. I'm willing to bet money that the ballistics are far (FAR) from modeled correctly in-game. So comparing historical tests is not a valid comparison to in-game effects, IMO.

(In no way am I supporting Doggles narrow-minded, tl;dr-esque comment or taking his side, btw.)

Salute

Here is a quote from an online source re. 7.92mm projectiles used by the Germans and the quantity manufactured:

You will note the source does not include SmK(H) in the list of ammunition designed for aircraft, it is noted as being issued to ground troops. And of course, it is 1-2% of production.

I suggest a new thread is opened to discuss ammo load outs and ballistics for this one to stay in topic.

It is possible depends on the pilot/loadout/patience
http://www.rdox.info/01.jpghttp://www.rdox.info/02.jpghttp://www.rdox.info/8.jpghttp://www.rdox.info/04.jpg

I'd find a tutorial on how to effectively load out your plane very useful, being a noob.

Salute

I am going to correct myself, it appears the SMK (H) was used in aircraft, although again, it is clear it was a very rare round, it was not used in aircraft exclusively, was listed in being used by the Wermacht in a number of weapons, and the Wehrmacht was a much larger customer.

US Army Medical Corps did a survey of wounds and deaths due to enemy action, determining the source of the casualties, a rather gruesome survey, (don't click on the photo links unles you want to know the realities of what ordinance does to the human body) but exhaustive, it notes in 'Enemy Ordanance Material' in paragraph 54/Table 9 of the following link that some (non-standard) tungsten cored bullets were used in aircraft mounting the MG15:

http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksd...cs/default.htm

Buzzsaw the unstoppable...thread derailed.

/thread

Salute

Another source showing the SmK (H) used by the Wehrmacht in its Infantry weapons and obviously was the biggest user of this ammo.

US Army Military History document, see page 188 for details of bullet:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/12980915/26/a-Introduction

Salute AbortedMan

With respect, I did reply to your comments earlier, and suggested you bring forward some proof regarding hacking.

The fact that this issue of the Tungsten round has come forward during the discussion is obviously relevant to the number of Pilot Kills you (and I) have noticed.

An MG round which penetrates right through the armoured seatback is going to make it a lot easier to make these insta-kills.

Of course, and due respect reciprocated...I just didn't see the relevance of bringing ballistics vs anatomical studies and records of the written recollections of availability of ordnance into a discussion regarding someone possibly editing game files to insta-kill players.

The ordnance is available in game en masse, unlimited, therefore its logistics is a non-issue. The effects of the the player's "body" is boolean, it either kills you or it doesn't, there's no wounding going on here, that's the issue I believe the OP was talking about.

In any case, there's nothing that can be done here about it except bait the trolls for their squeamishly giggly offerings of "L2Play, noob" as seen in posts previous.

for the people that seem to be blind to the fact that this game can be modded have a look here

(i have 3 steam accounts 2 with just this game have gone on servers that are empty and flown those 109 mods often and still have all 3 accounts there for one can deduce vac is not active)


http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/forumdisplay.php?f=199

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=23921

nuf said

+1

Tell us more! ;)

I'd like to note that while it sucks being PKd so consistently by the same couple if people, it is kinda cool that there is a bit of infamy surrounding the player in question...he's kinda like ATAGs Red Baron.

Salute Pegasus

The comments in the links you have posted are quite old.

However, they do indicate German players were flying with 109 mods on online servers.

There is much "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" about how the Luftwaffe side is doing well.

The question is, were those players flying on servers loaded with Beta patches, or were they flying on official Steam program servers?

There is a big difference between a Beta patched server and one loaded with an official Steam install.

including this final patch the last one uped by steam 1.11.20362 ,

so in answer to your question yes in servers with official steam patches.

and i see those links are dead but those mods and more still are available.

Showcasing a cheat in an online tournament wouldn't be the smartest move as all eyes are on u.
The performance of a plane can be altered. Another ATAG member and myself were taken into another server a while back and discreetly shown how a planes flight modelling can be altered. This was occasioned by some weird stuff happening with 109s on the server (and no not lag related) and we were shown what could be done. In this case a plane made to fly 450-500mph without damage in straight and level flight. Now this wasn't a demonstration of some gunnery hack but it was absolute proof to me and my ATAG colleague that files can be altered to make planes do things in online servers that they shouldn't be able to do.
Look if these guys are legit then so be it. My only concern is that cheating will be misguidedly praised as skill. If it is skill then these guys are very good and I salute them.

i would like to thank you i was not going to bring that up as to not include you but i was there and all that you seen still works

i S! you for your cumming out and telling this story,
for what he says is 100% true the ac he was referring to was a hurri also flying inverted at that speed.

What is it about recording flights online that is broken? Is it developer side or something on ATAG specifically?

This thread is riddiculous. Always the same folks that cant get over their own disability and look for explanations in others instead of looking where they should - their own doorstep.
Pilotkills happen folks. I have been pilotkilled myself and never thought it was a cheat. I mean HELLO? 8xBrowning hammering me?
Or vice versa - MINESHELLS?
Armor piercing rounds?
Hello what would some of you say when playing something like Battlefield - grin.

Get over it...

You will never stop cheaters they will always find a way to, personally I just don't understand why people cheat in games :(

I was an okay pilot in il2 but I am terrible at aiming in cod and have no self control when it comes to sticking with BnZ tactics and try and turn fight spits :lol: but I still would never ever even contemplate using a cheat the whole thing perplexes me :confused:

Good wingin last night krups...you even got some kills, good skills n drills :)

On topic I agree with winger, this thread has been derailed some what.

Its always easier to take from the rich, they must be terrible pilots:grin:

I think the way to solve it is to report this cheating procedure to Steam VAC managers. VAC is a service Steam provides to game publishers and they are interested in improving it. This is how it works with other games: players report cheats and they fix it. There is no chance they test CloD cheats themselves.

Anyone who knows how to use altered files online please write to Steam and explain the procedure. Otherwise this thread will be just a promotion for this cheating mod and more players will use it next week already.

"...there is a bit of infamy surrounding the player in question...he's kinda like ATAGs Red Baron."

I can see no valid point of comparison between a man like Richthofen and some bloke who happens to play video games for a hobby. None at all.