Is it possible to fly the Bf-110 with 1 engine?
 

Did not succeed any tips? Or is it not possible?

I don't think that it was even possible in real life.

It's more like engine assisted glide after one engine is lost. Range seems to be enought usually to cross canal and if lucky enought land on a landing strip.

Protip: check compass direction to sun because every time i have got shot flying 110 i have lost my compass. This way you'll have even slightest change to know where france is without taking 50/50 chance and found out that AA on airstrip you are landing is shooting at you.

Historically no but there maybe stories out there saying yes..........


Bf110's were rapidly landed/ditched/crashed when engine failure occurred.

Most engine failure reports are the same for Bf110's they were not able to safely fly home due to possible engine fire.

I would imagine thier training was to put it down asap.

http://www.flensted.eu.com/g1943075.shtml

From this site that has interesting Axis Allied aircraft accounts/losses from Denmark

http://www.flensted.eu.com/




.



.

It was possible to fly on one engine in real life in the Me-110 and maintain altitude.

Twin engine aircraft all have additional speeds Single Engine do not.

Vmc = minimum control speed with one engine out <changes with conditions but is given one a standard day in a standard configuration>

Critical engine windmilling

Most aft CG

Most favorable configuration

Bank angle

Density altitude

All of these effect Vmc.

Vxse = Maximum angle of climb single engine

Vyse = Maximum rate of climb single engine

Both are the same speed as normal Vx and Vy, the rate is ~75% less on average though.

Vsse = intentional engine out operating speed - The lowest speed you can be to practice engine out procedures. This is a safety speed given by the manufacturer.

Twin engine aircraft have their single engine service ceiling and absolute ceiling greatly reduced. It is a function of the density altitude.

Service ceiling is the altitude the aircraft can only climb at a 50 fpm rate. Absolute ceiling is the point were Vx and Vy converge and the aircraft cannot climb at all but can only maintain altitude.

On a hot day and high altitude airport, the absolute ceiling may be lower than the ground level. Our airplane could not maintain altitude and would descend to the ground.

Its performance is extremely limited on engine. It is a characteristic of all twins.

You lose an engine, you want to get them down. Especially in combat.

Here is a good general article on flying twins.

http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/184438-1.html

So the answer is no you don't fly the Bf110 on one engine in CloD.

I watched a AI with one engine mid-channel 5000 make it home to the base. The landing was not a success:-P

There are historical accounts of BoB Bf110's making home across the channel.

They bailed out when over France.

This is a bit different, but I remember either Oleg showing us, or maybe it was a training mission in the other game. He-111 successful landing with one engine.

With one engine (depending on damage type) I can fly the He111 and land it perfectly well, its a different beast from the Bf110.








.

Very nice, and rewarding!... I have a fond memory in the other game spits vs 109 server. Was attacked and lost a engine He-111, huge trailing black smoke all the way back to LaHave. The landing was not the success:-P

Same goes for the P38 in the ETO and PTO..

Flying on one engine was one of it's selling points and/or requirments..

So much for the theory that if you lose an engine, you half to get them down asap being a characteristic of all twins that some want us belive! ;)

I have got home in CLOD on one engine in the BF110 numerous times. Its only possible imo at light weights (makes sense). Obviously start altitude helps. I have been as low as 1000m mid channel and done it ok. Net flight path is slightly negative throughout. As soon as the engine fails set failed engine Prop pitch full coarse (be nice if we could feather it), close Oil and coolant Rads on the failed side. Fly at around 250Kmh which is close to Min drag. On approach only use about 1/3rd flap max.

The Mosquito could do aerobatics on one engine.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7pNB...feature=relmfu

A test pilot also did some aerobatics in a B-26. Iirc this was a demonstration flight to show the B-26 could fly on one engine.

There was no Mossie plant in Ottawa. It was in Downsview (Toronto).

Eric Brown's comments on BF110 single engine performance from "Wings of the Luftwaffe"

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...snglengine.jpg

The RAF Evaluation flights notes on the Bf110 regarding single engine approaches:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...f110engout.jpg

So on one hand we have the historic record of how it was in WWII
And on the other hand we have Crumpps assessment of how it was done some 70 years after the fact, i.e.

So it is decision time again..

CASE 1) WWII accounts of or by WWII military trained pilots on how it was done in WWII
CASE 2) Crumpps modern civi trained pilot assessment of how it was done in WWII

The choice is yours!

Anyone have a photo of the 4 engined Lancaster flying on only the outer port engine.

B-26 on one engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu8eBh-JLnI

Apparently during a demo flight of the de Havilland Hornet the pilot flew it with both propellers feathered, then restarted one engine and put on an aerobatics display.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k3...and-hornet.jpg

I have never managed to keep a 110 flying on one engine in CoD, probably carrying too much fuel. The He111 is quite easy to fly on one engine.

I haven't yet flown the CLOD 110, but I do know that in real life it was possible to dive and fly the D-0 Dackelbauch on one engine, with fuel tank still attached, and land it at home base:

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k3...-page-002a.jpg

That is not realistic.

For a twin operating on a single engine....

There is not a single twin engine aircraft ever designed that operating on a single engine unintentionally was not an emergency procedure.

In the P-38 Flight Operating Instructions, located in Chapter
IV EMERGENCY PROCEDURES, you will find the instructions for single engine operation on page 39, section 5.

Here are a few more P-38 accounts..

That prove it was no big deal to fly on one engine..

Keep in mind these accounts are from actual military trained pilots that flew the P-38 WWII!

That is to say, a modern civ trained pilot may read something in the pilots manual some 70 years after the fact and falsly conclude that all twins require must land ASAP and avoid any sort of maneuver other than level flight while looking for a place to ditch..

But as you can see from the following accounts, that was not the case at all



And that is just three accounts.. There are many more of these out there on the web and in books

Enjoy!

Wow... Send your stories to Lockheed so they can re-write the Flight Operations Manual!!

Obviously, they got it all wrong and you are right.

Its groundhog day again, and its always the same person.......

:rolleyes:

Groundhog day or not, flying on one engine is an emergency procedure. Doesn't necessarily imply immediate, mortal danger.

Yup :)

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/u...e20engine1.jpg

That is the one. Thanks!!!

great pic!

Does anyone know the story behind it? I'm curious to say the least!

Nice & curious as well!

I have lost an engine in the 110 and made it back too.

Landing was difficult. True.

However I never fly at sea level. That's one of the first safety procedure that a COD pilot shld apply "in case of emergency".

Deck flying = death asap

Use alt for all: safety, SA, and offensiveness.

Don't expect much if you don't hve any alt bellow your wings. COD is great for that.

Bingo!

Loosing an engine in any plane would more than likely result in an emergency procedure (DUH)

The difference being a twin has options a single does not have! ;)

And the emergency procedure is not even the question!

That was just a tangent topic Crumpp started to take the focus of his initial reply to the original question that implied all twins have to stop what they are doing and start looking for a place to put down..

Which may be the case for the Bf110? I don't know, but based on the P-38 pilot accounts, that certainly was NOT the case.

As noted, a P-38 could do loops while running on one engine.

Which is not to say a P38 pilot would want to dog fight on one engine, it just highlights the silly notion that it is a characteristic of ALL TWINS must stop what they are doing and start looking for a place to put down

But I digress

The question was.. can a Bf110 be flown on one engine?

To which the answer is yes, both in game and real world

:confused:

You are just one of those people who just like to insist that earth is flat even when Columbus came back from america. It written right here in this book you hear! and sun does circle the earth because this book says it!

Now this threat was speculation and discussion about "Is it possible to fly the Bf-110 with 1 engine." Its not discussion did every 2 engine plane have emergency procedure for one engine flight. I could swear that they even had emergency prodecure for 0 engine flight but that does not mean that plane could maintain alt or speed in that condition.

As for manuals: Most manual are written for 90% performance just because part quality varies in different stages of production and part quality is nearly never 100% even in peace time as there are flaws. It would be dangerous if manuals were written for 100% performance because people would try to push it to that what manual states and when failure occures they would blame the manufacor for said failure.

As for this offtopic P-38 discussion there are really many flaws in manuals on that plane. For instance 'best fuel performance boost and RPM.' but then again you would not believe man who was the first to fly over atlantic know anything about engine performance.

As for Crumps 21st century aviation trivia that every plane should fly with one engine for safety. Say that to 1940s pilots flying with HS-129. Plane was nearly too heavy even for 2 engines.
And I really believe that many planes were not at their best conditions back then and would not get a takeoff permit from 21st century officials. No DeIcing, engine maintain schedule overdue, fabrics broken, parts missing, warning lights on, pilot have not had enought rest prior to flight, too much snow/water on runway Etc.

Don't know the story behind it, but that must be a Lanc B MkII with the bristol engines.

Propaganda photo-shoot at the time, most likely due to engines being Bristols not RR.

Lancaster B2

This is one of 200 powered by the Bristol Hercules radial engine.
They were built in 1942/43 by Armstrong Whitworth as an insurance against shortages of Merlins



Meanwhile .............................. back to on topic.


.

You want to fly single engined?

Here are some specs from a Bf 110 D-E distance manual with 2x500kg Bombs and additionally 2x400l fuel in ventral tanks. Means 2070l fuel.

Release date 21.2.1941
Attachment 10835

Of course you ditch bombs and tanks in an emergency, so fuel would be 1270l max.

Einmotorenflug = One engine flight
Höhe = altitude
Ladedruck = boost
Drehzahl = rev/min.
Verbrauch = fuel consumption
Geschwindigkeit = TAS

ohh and 87 octane.

The original question was "Is it possible to fly the Bf 110 on one engine?" The answer is yes - it doesn't matter whether it was an emergency procedure or not, it could be done.

Fairey Gannet twin engined, was routinely and deliberately operated on one engine to conserve fuel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhZRVc9SS0M

Four engine Lockheed P3 Orion routinely flew with engines stopped and props feathered

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRnMv...eature=related

These thigs varied. In some situations there is no reason to assume that all twins can fly on one engine. In the Far East in the hot/high conditions beaufighters could not fly on one engine if they had the standard rocket rails fitted (with or without rockets), however they could if they had zero length rails which were just entering service at the end of the war.

Most extreme example has to be the much maligned Nimrod, normal practice was all four engines to get to the patrol area quickly, then patrol on one engine.

Point is that it is a waste of time making sweeping, definitive statements encompassing all aircraft types - there were twin engined aircraft that failed miserably to fly on one engine, including the Avro Manchester and Blackburn Botha.

I would imagine thier training was to put it down asap.

http://www.qmku.info/0.jpghttp://www.qmku.info/7.jpghttp://www.qmku.info/8.jpghttp://www.qmku.info/9.jpghttp://www.ymeu.info/test5.jpg

Sure it does...

Exactly. It is only common sense.

And that is the problem with the imagination.. Like opinions, everyone has one! ;)

In such cases it is best to stick to the facts over imagination

With that said here is a quote from an actual military trained WWII P-38 pilot..

Who happens to mention a little about his 'training'

As you can see..

This single engine training exercise consisted of loops, barrel rolls, etc..

Note the total lack of any mention or indication of having to land ASAP..

As a mater of fact Captain Stan Richardson referred to it as 'generally having a good time'.

Was this the case for all twins?

Nope!

Which is why making sweeping, definitive statements encompassing all twin aircraft types is just silly

Here we go again - read the original question Crumpp! - Was it possible to fly the Bf 110 on 1 engine? It did not require a long-winded technical explanation, nor did it ask about emergency procedures: In the context of the question asked it did not matter whether flying on one engine was an emergency procedure. Have you got it now? :rolleyes:

http://www.winthrop.dk/p38op11.html

Like most twins, losing an engine means a ~75% reduction in performance.

Typically, the P-38 cannot hold altitude with gear and flaps extended. The single engine does produce enough excess thrust to overcome the drag.

It is already been show the Bf-110 can operate on a single engine with typical degraded performance.


http://www.winthrop.dk/p38op12.html

Here is Jeff Ethel's NTSB report. He died making a single engine approach in a P-38.

http://www.winthrop.dk/ethel1.html

Bob Hoover had a really nice aerobatic routine in a far less capable twin.

Good energy management of your degraded performance is the key to successful single engine operation in a twin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7R7j...eature=related

:rolleyes:
So what is all this palaver meant to prove Crumpp? We get that you consider yourself to be THE No 1 authority on aeronautics, but why persist with a complete dissertation about flying on one engine when the original question simply asked whether it was possible to fly the Messerschmitt Bf 110 on one engine?

Simple answer - yes it was possible. Yes, it could be considered to be an emergency operation, particularly when there were hostile fighters poking around and no, we didn't need Crumpp's lengthy analysis to say it.

So in Cod if one engine is shot off from Bf-110 you should immediately turn it off and feather or coarsen, if unable to feather, the pitch as much as possible? Close all rad on that engine and push other engine to its limit 2400-2600 Rpm?

I might be doing something wrong because every time I push Bf-110 near 2400 rpm i'll burn my engine(s) up.

And little offtopic:

Do I remember wrong that there were a prototype Bf-110 with Counter-rotating propellers? I have some vague memory of reading about problems with weight distribution which cancelled the positive effect of Counter-rotating propellers.

Ok..

Bear with me here Crumpp

Because IMHO this post of yours is a little confusing..

Note.. it starts off with the heading/title..

-EMERGENCY OPERATING INSTRUCTIONS from the P-38 pilot's manual..
-Followed by the link to the P-38 pilot's manual..
-Followed by the statement Like most twins, losing an engine means a ~75% reduction in performance...

At a glance one would get the impression that the statement is from the P-38 pilots manual..

But I check the link and no where does it contain that statement..

So, at this point I can only assume that statement is simply your opinion and has nothing to do with the P-38 pilots manual, even though it was presented in such a way as to give the impression that it was from the P-38 pilots manual.

True at very low MP settings..

But more importantly..

'Typically' you would NOT be flying around with your gear and flaps extended on one, let alone two engines!!

That configuration only comes into play during a landing..

Where your not trying to hold an altitude, your trying to reduce your altitude so you can land! ;)

And more!

See the PERFORMANCE section I quoted below

I found both of these quotes, back to back, in the P-38s pilots manual..

In the EMERGENCY OPERATING INSTRUCTIONS section (4) FURTHER INFORMATION with regards to the preceding section (3) SINGLE ENGINE APPROACH AND LANDING..

As I noted above..

You would NOT fly around with the landing gear and flaps down..

This only comes into play during landing, as noted above SINGLE ENGINE APPROACH AND LANDING..

So, not sure what your point was here?

I also noticed that you failed to note that the P-38s were not limited to 44" Hg..

IIRC the P-38H was limited to 54"Hg. and the later models were limited to 60"Hg. for 110oct and 70"Hg. for 150oct..

So, in essence, the P-38s could fly and maintain alt after raising the gear with or without flaps and an MP set above 44"..

In summary your post has a very cherry picked negative feel to it..

That or maybe in your rush you just missed the following quote from the P-38s pilots manual?

That being the one in the EMERGENCY OPERATING INSTRUCTIONS section (1) ENGINE FAILURE DURING FLIGHT..

Where is says the following

As you can see from that quote..

A single engine not only produces enough excess thrust to overcome drag..

It produces enough thrust to climb to an altitude of 26Kft and maintain level flight at 255mph at 20Kft!

Also note the part where is says DURING FLIGHT..

That DURING FLIGHT aspects is what the original question was about wrt the Bf110 and later the P-38..

So, I don't know where you got the impression that we were talking about landings?

But since you brought it up..

I should point out that even on one engine, the P-38 was able to make several landing attempts, as long as it stayed above 500ft..

Allow me..

I should also point out that the following is NOT part of the EMERGENCY OPERATING INSTRUCTIONS section, thus not considered an EMERGENCY procedure

In the section APPROACH AND LANDING section c. SINGLE APPROACH AND LANDING - CAUTION it says

As you can see from that quote..

A single engine not only produces enough excess thrust to overcome drag..

It produces enough thrust to climb out and circle around for another attempt at landing!

I hope this clarification helps put to rest any of your concerns, and or anyone else who read your post and was concerned that the only option the P-38 had was to land/ditch when flying with one engine!

If your still concerned..

Here is a quote from Stand Wood, who is the WWII P-38 pilot that provided the P-38 pilots manual at that link you provided

Hope that helps! S!

Yep feather, close rads and only use 2,400 rpm and above on your good engine if you're losing altitude too quickly - you might have to adjust (coarsen) your pitch on your good engine to keep the revs down.

The interesting thing about the p38, mentioned earlier, is the tops of the propeller arcs move outwards (not inwards like a conventional counter-rotating setup). Naturally this makes the p38 "tricky" under asymmetric thrust regardless of which of the engines fails. There is no critical engine in a p38, they are BOTH bad.

According to Kelly Johnson, this was done to make the p38 a more stable gun platform.

Can the Me110 fly on one engine.

The following is a quote from the Tactical Trial undertaken on an Me110 captured in July 1940

The aircraft flies well on either engine. It is able to climb and maintain height easily without feathering the propeller. With the propeller feathered the single engine performance is improved considerably, and the aircraft may be turned comfortably both with and against the live engine.

So the reply is Yes it can easily.

Speaking of twin engines...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vQOY...layer_embedded

droool!

Please provide the source material so we all can evaluate please.

Other wise to be honest your post has no value regarding the context as presented.

:)

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/me110/me110.html

data on the Bf110. For the gear heads there is an article on the DB601 from Flight - Nov 7 1940

From the "Instructions for Flying the Messerschmitt 110" :

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k3...g-page-001.jpg

Here are the docs in original not good but you can read them. first page gives the context the second the section I quoted. Hope this gives the value you are after

Wouldn't it be nice if others could support their statements with original documents

I have had a couple of requests to show the entire document which I am attaching over the next couple of postings
I hope they assist

And the rest

Shame that's a captured "recon" bf110 and not a fighter/bomber configured one.

Interesting reading all the same especially the Hurricane comparisons.

True but the differences would not have been great. They allowed for the missing guns and the weight of the armour would seem to have been the main difference and that isn't significant, indeed one would expect the Recce version to have a slighjtly better performance.

Yes it is possible, you need to set the dead engine feathering position, and dont forget to close ALL radiators from the engine, not needed to be open anymore, to reduce drag.

You should fly straight and level well trimmed with 250-260 km/h, and be able to hold ALT. If you are light, you are able to climb a little even, with 230 km/h, but I would not do it if not needed. With the graph from Kodoss what is showing one engine 280Km/h, I am not able to do so.....;)