Weather/Terrain effects. Surely this is the minimum we expect for CloD or the Sequel
 

It's difficult to sit on the wall here because we can all see that CloD has potential. Reading the latest posts though it appears that CloD will only be fixed as best they can, as the Sequel is now the priority. There is to be no more development for CloD, what you have is what you'll get...other than fixes to broken bits.

Graphically I have always been irritated by IL2: 1946 and CloD due to the draw distances or should I say management of draw distances.

I hate the fact buildings appear like popcorn even when settings are tweaked through the full-range from low to high amounts and similar on texture settings. I don;t know why this hasn't or can't be fixed as there is nothing worse than flying low over the deck only to see the landscape 'literally' being drawn in front of you.

The promise of Weather, new clouds....effectively atmosphere that immerses you in the environment you are flying in, effectively destroys the illusion of Britain. Weather in Britain can be miserable with days being lost to rain.

The British campaign should at-least have had the Hurricane or Spitfire sat on a runway as rain falls and a low overcast hangs overhead.

The Aircraft takes off, breaks through the overcast into sunlight and a blanket of cloud is laid out below making retreating enemy easy to spot.

Dogfights ensue, dancing above and below the cloud cover....this is BoB??

The least we should expect is this (link below)

Now I know many will bleat...Arcade! So-what? I am not talking about gameplay...I'm talking GRAPHICS!!!

I'm all for the detail we get in the aircraft, I'm all for the attention to detail of the 'fixed' FM and DM...they are incredible, that's what CloD (sorry IL2) is renowned for. Please make CloD as accurate as that.

However just throw away the landscape, terrain and cloud models. Give us atmosphere. Give us rain, cloud layers...give us immersion!

This weather is the least we should expect of CloD and anyone who says that this weather and cloud detail is 'rubbish' in this video, really is a Fanboy of Fanboy's!

I don't want pop up, I don't want pop up clouds, ground, buildings, trees...I just want a basic, simple level of weather that this 'Arcade' game creates easily and successfully:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJF_o...feature=relmfu

MP

I totally agree with u!!!
Waiting for better times...patiently

in sequel im pretty sure that they will do the best
the question is what is going to happen with the CLOD

Hit the nail on the head my friend. CLoD is like a beautiful women to look at but not a brain in her pretty head. Great to play with for a short time but you quikly grow board. I really hope they can fix but I have my doubts.

CLoD...a stupid person; blockhead; dolt.

I was so immersed by Wings of Puke that I removed it from my hard drive after playing with it for only a couple hours.

The plan is to get the weather working for the sequel, and as COD will be merge-able with the next instalment the weather (and other improvements + updates to the engine) will be usable in COD too.

So, we'll get it, but it's going to be a waiting game.

I'll also speculate that when they introduce cloudy/overcast, stormy, etc conditions that they will have to tweak and 'recalibrate' the lighting settings - and this should mean that the current slightly over-dulled, pastel effect for COD's perpetually bright sunny skies will be redone and improved as well.

And as the Russian Front will have both winter and summer conditions they will also have to re-work and fine-tune the current always-high icing settings for clouds. So no more icing up flying through British summer clouds.

In fact, since coming to terms with the probability that most of what I want will be supplied in the sequel I have been enjoying a near-Buddhist state of contemplative tranquillity regarding the current state of COD and no longer care about Beta and Steam patches. ;)

Shame you never experienced the Graphics and weather effects shown in the video above. These would be a GREAT addition to the authentic immersion in the (allow me to beat you to it) SUPERIOR CloD) ;)

Sometimes an Ostrich has to raise it's head above the sand to actually see that there are other options available?

Thanks for not laying an egg David!

MP

(Queue usual rebuttle, thread going down the David Hayward route of no-one dare have an opinion other than his and getting another thread closed!) Please watch this thread closely admins and allow others to have an opinion.

Now answering your point David.

When was the last-time you took a simulated aircraft through a cloud-cover that is shown in the video? It's an opaque layer of cloud. A fight could be going on below it or above it but you don't know unless you fly through it. There are no tracers visible, there are no see-through points...it's an immersive 3D world where a player can use the weather to their advantage.

I appreciate you didn't like WoP, I can't make you like it. It is Arcade, but it also has a much better representation of terrain, lighting, no obvious pop-up....and it has cloud and weather effects.

You don't like it. I get it. You have said many times.

Now, regarding the weather conditions and Graphics on the ground....CloD could learn a lot!

MP

So you can state your opinion and he can't?

I am sure that the MG team could make an awesome landscape if they only had a 1km square area to work with :rolleyes:

I did experience them. I still removed the game from my computer.

While I tend to agree that more could and should be done with weather in CloD and future titles, I still have to remind people that map area does play a large part of what can be done with reasonable quality. This isnt an excuse for the devs, but comparing games that dont render the same square mileage probably isnt fair (not to mention other things going on under the hood)... now here is a really crappy ILS landing by me in A-10... these graphics are somewhat dated by what we have in CloD... but you get the idea right... weather shouldnt be given up on, but they also are not just something they can plunk in...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mRsrPLO7BQ

SO in closing... I sorta agree... but not quite :)

The dev team said that they were working on dynamic weather, so they obviously realize that it's something that people want. Apparently it's not possible now on a map that is much larger than anything you will see on Wings of Puke.. Why is that so difficult for some people to believe?

Clod has some very small maps too. They look terrible.

Yes but... I.. They.. I will will get my coat...!

Good point :|

;)

I'm quite sure the developer is well aware of the cloud and weather problem. The development had a guy working full time on the clouds and weather and they fired him for obvious reasons. Hopefully they have found someone with more expertise to carry on.

The terrain also needs work, but I think the community can fix this if and when the tools are released. I believe they are also reworking the water. BUT for any of this to happen they desperately need to fix enough of the performance, stability, and game play issues of the game engine to make the Sequel successful. If the game engine is finally fixed and the Sequel sells, then the development will have time to breath, and just work on features, aircraft, cockpits, and maps. The unfinished game engine has had the development teetering on disaster for sometime and they obviously aren't out of the woods yet.

dont let the depressed ones confuse you with their tales of doom :)

on that one "small map in CoD" occasion the same advanced game and grafix engine in CoD just has to briefly model a small geographic area. its not as if it can suddenly scale down magically and that suddenly frees up the resources to add game console style eye candy and dumbs down the FM and DM etc..

its like saying a fiat 500 and a Ferrari should cost the same because both on one occasion are driving at the same slow speed :)

point being, for CoD/BoM the same gfx and game engine in other settings has to model the highly detailed aircraft models, FM, DM, and a huge map with large formations of aircraft and complex ground unit activity, AND you (we) want a high level of detail when on the ground or flying at low altitude (rather then the cartoon visuals of WoP). there simply isnt enough pc resources for this on mid level systems, it even strugles on high end pc's in 2012 (eg having to turn of dynamic weather etc).

Rise of flight has nice clouds.:grin:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-TCTDHO7Nw

[QUOTE=Bob_Marley;458836]Rise of flight has nice clouds.:grin:

[QUOTE]

But they can't fix their trees!

I hope they take a second look at their trees later too. Seeing the new water, I remain hopeful. It would be good to see some bump mapping on the landscape too. Clod has an edge over RoF in that respect.

Yea but you hav... Hang on did you just say something positive about clod!!!

Argghh the sky is falling!!!

[QUOTE=Skoshi Tiger;458837][QUOTE=Bob_Marley;458836]Rise of flight has nice clouds.:grin:

Whats wrong with the trees in ROF?

ROF is way ahead of CLOD. :!:

I remember I was so impressed with an early video of CloD showing some clouds and the effect of the sun shining on the top of the cloud. I found the video at 1:12 - 1:14, it made my jaw drop....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQbCIT-aMnY

WOW! That´s really amazing!

Well, if the release candidate looks like that vid I'll be happy. The summer of 1940 had it's bad days, but it was generally speaking a better summer than we usually experience. This one's been crap so far. :(

How so, up close rof looks better but from the air the fields look very flat and washed out in rof while in cold the look 3D.

Because its finished and well polished and the future looks bright.

Example...

http://www.wingsofhonour.com/riseoff...0x1600x24b.jpg

http://s5.postimage.org/pgdmgsw53/sh...512_223645.png

Well my ROF looks better than that pic try to use the Anti-Aliasing settings it will get rid of the jaggies. :!:

I think they both look great.

Yes they do.

And the rof pic was a random one from the web

Looks like a fairly early version with low landscape settings. It looks significantly different now, but still needs some clod style bumps maps to give a better feeling of depth.

Well the graphics are global over all maps, they have to perform well on the largest, so you end up with the same thing for the smallest. If they only had small maps that would be a different story.

If it makes anyone feel better, Dynamic weather in DCS games is a resource hog as well, and a real knock on FPS.

Great weather effects in the original post. The water over canopy seems a bit overdone but still pretty good. What stood out most for me was the smoke and fire from the burning buildings. Most realistic smoke I've seen in a flight sim. It doesn't just rise straight up from the fire but appears to be roiling as it goes up. Also isn't a uniform thickness and has patches of thick smoke breaking away from the column. Very nice.

ROF looks much better on my PC than that pic, but I still don't find the terrain believable. Although the latest ROF video of the float plane taking off and landing on water is amazing. COD terrain is OK, but it should get much better, when the community can fine tune it, and replace some of the trees with hedgerows etc.

Is an early version with low setting. However i agree about the bumps mapping feature for RoF.

About CoD and the weather-landscape problem, we can only hope in the sequel and yes.....in the RoF Channel.

The CoD's Channel with those textures and without weather is no more no less than nothing. Terrible if not horrible.

stop compare ROF and CLOD.

it is two different sim. not the same era.

personally i find that ROF is not better than CLOD but i don't care about WW1 sim... then i don't care ROF.

please people here...speak about same sims to compare... take il2, CLOD, BOB. but not ROF.

In terms of graphics you can compare them.

In terms of gameplay they are different due to there settings.

Well, regarding that ROF screenshot, it definately doesn't represent highest quality settings. Looks like it's even set to low landscape (which you definately don't need to set, if you can run CloD...).

However, the terrain in ROF looks more generic and very flat at longer distances. Especially at the horizon it looks a little off. Worst thing however, are the trenches, roads, railroads etc. They just look sticked on top of the normal landscape (which they practically are) and make the engine look older than it is.

I prefer the CloD landscape, because it seems more unique and less generic, but it's still far from perfect. The colors still look funny and i could live with a bit less bump mapping. Also while the water looks very well from high altitude, it seriously suffers when you fly low. I think ROF has the edge (only at low altitude though), even without the new 3d water of the coming update.

As for the future looking bright etc., i don't think that's true for either ROF or CloD...

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/7124/new3uh.jpg
By furbs9999 at 2011-07-31

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/8195/day5g.jpg
By furbs9999 at 2011-07-31

And not a landscape, but something else missing from CLOD...

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/8981/new5fx.jpg
By furbs9999 at 2011-07-31

Beautiful SE5a pic it looks so crisp. :)

Map size, while presenting a set of initial challenges, is not a large problem in this day and age.

Streaming, instancing, etc etc solves the performance issue completely.

The best clouds I have seen implemented in a current game are most likely the ones present in ArmA 3.

I believe they use a middleware which I cannot recall the name of now-- alas all cloud solutions based on real-world light scattering shader tech look quite alike.

http://www.arma3.com/full/wp-content...t_1107_025.jpg

http://img.youtube.com/vi/I0untAgEncI/0.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DOvMJkppCv..._arma3_2_4.jpg

There is actually a way to increase the saturation setting in ROF which can improve things for those finding it too washed out.

You need to edit the startup.cfg file located in Rise of Flight / Data.

Change the saturation setting from the default of 0.75000 to whatever floats your boat (mine is currently at 0.81500).

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/...__23_11_14.jpg

Also, I'm no expert on this but the ROF manual says:

Shader Quality. This setting affects the appearance of certain graphical effects such as the appearance of the water, lighting and ground. You can choose from Low, Medium, High and Maximum. When you choose maximum the ground will have a special texture applied to it to look bumpy and this is called Parallax Mapping. Parallax mapping is triggered when you fly close to the ground

So is Parallax Mapping the same as Bump Mapping?

This is parallax mapping..

http://www.wingsofhonour.com/news/20...80x800x24b.jpg

Like I said ROF is nicer when close to the ground, above it I prefer cod.

Parallax Mapping is a more advanced shader technique than bump mapping, but in laymans terms-- they serve the same purpose.

A proper parallax shader gives real feeling of depth, even if the render perspective is close to the surface, whereas normal/bump maps are lacking in this area. Parallax shaders are also these days expanded to tesselate and properly offset a surface:

http://www.abload.de/img/1n93h.jpg

At the end of the day both games look amazing, but RoF has more polish due to being out for longer.

http://www.wingsofhonour.com/news/20...80x800x32b.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/a...720_214012.jpg

This is what parrallax mapping looks like in RoF

http://riseofflight.com/SharedResour...12_04_06/1.jpg

[QUOTE=Skoshi Tiger;458837][QUOTE=Bob_Marley;458836]Rise of flight has nice clouds.:grin:

Ill have the ROF trees any day over CLOD trees!!

If they can sort out that damn flicking and add tree collisions CoDs would be superior but as it stands RoF trees are better.

[QUOTE=Anders_And;459012][QUOTE=Skoshi Tiger;458837]Yeah me too plus you break things when you fly into them. :rolleyes:

Oh my God, the trees in CLOD really look bad... Way too bright(should be dark green) and they shimmer and you can fly through them...
In general, trees are the darkest part of a landscape, not the other way around...
Examples

http://www.history.org.uk/resources/..._news_348.html

http://www.google.com/imgres?start=0...68&tx=86&ty=68

http://www.google.com/imgres?start=4...2&tx=119&ty=52

http://www.google.com/imgres?start=4...:47,s:44,i:229
CLOD landscape looks like Simpson landsape...

So i take it you have never flown in an aircraft?

Nice to see you have edited your post to show just how wrong you were LOL

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...outsideNRT.jpg

http://urtravelogues.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/1.jpg

Jep, Trees are way to bright now. When being close, they are okay but on distance they are way way to bright.

Strange enough I sometimes have different tree-colors in mulitplayer than in singleplayer...???:confused:

(darker in MP)

Wish they would of made the sunderland a flyable. :(

Krupi I work as an arline pilot and spend on average 5-6h a day in the sky so calm down...

Trees look ok in game when around 16:00 and later because shadows make the trees look darker...
Around 12:00 the game colours are terrible!

about the weather...
 

Why don't they do the same thing that Bohemia Interactive did for Arma 3? They bought a system of dynamic procedural clouds and it looks amazing, look at the screenshots of Arma 3!!

http://www.arma3.com/full/wp-content...t_1107_026.jpg

http://www.arma3.com/full/wp-content...e3_01_camp.jpg

http://www.arma3.com/full/wp-content...ot_1108_10.jpg

http://www.arma3.com/full/wp-content...t_1107_025.jpg

It isn't their system, they had to pay for it but it is worth it. Maddox can use several people to work on a new cloud system for a long time. And time costs money. In case of buying this cloud system, they would only spend money but not the time. So, it would logically be profitable! Who shares my opinion??

Too bad Bohemia can not find someone to buy a flight model from! ;)

I dont understand you Krupi. First you claim that I im wrong and then you post pictures where you prove that Im right.... (In both your photos the trees are the darkest psrt of the landscape). Just as I said they should..

ACE-OF-ACES: yes I know... I didn't want to praise Arma by my post or compare whole games. It was just an example how to make nice clouds for a game!

Roger that bud!

I love the ARMA stuff! Most realistic FPS out IMHO

I only wish they would put a little more effort into the flight models.. Than it would be an all in one game IMHO

Who knows, I hear they put more effort into them in ARMA3, but they also said that when moving from ARMA to ARAM2 ;)

On the note of secenry

There does seem to be a price to pay for all that ARMA detail

In that the world size is typically pretty small (see IF44) and thus the view distances are limited.. Not a big deal when walking or driving around.. But when it comes to flying, it can suck. Take IF44 (ARMA 2 engine) you can fly across the WHOLE WORLD in about 20 seconds.. Even faster in ARMA with jets! So there is a balance that needs to be considered.. When you look at how BIG the CoD world is.. I would take the level of detail CoD offers now over ARMA if it ment CoD would have to reduce the size of the world to ARAM sizes to use that secenry engine ARMA is using

I totally agree 1000000000000000% in this day and age with the horsepower we have available theres no reason not to have WEATHER and ATMOSPHERE in their next simulation. My gawd they had it in games back in early 2000's...and so far Gaijin have been kicking 1C's ass its not even funny.

It was more about your landscape comment... obviously..

Talking about landscape...found this today...Dont ask about FM and DM, realism,
historical blabla...

but there are getting close to something here...;)

enjoy if youve never seen it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFSPfq2SlUk

L

Well done Krupi!! You managed to to find landscape pictures!!! That might be considered an achievement where you live, so very good!!!
Now everyone, take a look at hese photos eand we can all see thst the treelines should be alot darker than we have in Clod. Will do alot for the landscape.
Not sure if 1c is working on trees for CLOd anymore but i guess not...

Hi Krupi, thanks for posting the picts, this confirms what I hate most in Clod landscape... the myriad of isolated trees visible from 30 miles. The pattern of real timberline is more similar to aggregate bushes.
Cheers

Talking about landscape and weather at all... does this game have a day and night cycle with changing weather? I don't know, just inform me. Of course, there are games that look amazing - they have totally photorealistic landscapes and clouds, like Battlefield 3 and other titles. But, trust me - I work 4 years in games development. The maps in this games look so great because they're static and not changing - no weather changes, no sun cycle. In this case it is much easier to make the environment looking perfect. But in case of day cycles and changing weather, it is incredibly difficult to make the environment look good at all conditions. You notice that the environment looks great at noon - but then you move the sun to sunset and change the weather - and everything looks strange, trees are too bright/dark, water does some funny stuff... it is a nightmare for a developer

This was exactly my point in the previous posts as well... ;)

the OP is correct in my view.
having working weather is cruical for a flight sim
but looking at the current clouds, how they look, and how they affect performance, although there are only a few fluffy balls, doesnt make me believe that 1c is capable of achieving this soon.

it wouldnt be that hard to believe, if they were at least working correctly.
BUT CLOUDS ARE NOT EVEN WORKING.they are not visible the same way for each player, and sometimes they are completely invisible for one player while they are there for another.(dont try to hide in clouds, they might not existing for your pursuer)

yesterday, we flew on atag, clouds of course still enabled, and they cause really bad performance.then suddenly over manston, the whole cloud layer disappeared in a split second for the whole squad.a few minutes later, another cloud layer appeared as fast beneath us above Lympne.

unfortunately, they fired the person who worked on the clouds.
unfortunately, they fired the person who worked on water.
unfortunately, they fired the person called Oleg.

in the current situation, i dont believe in working weather in the sequel.
in the current situation, i dont even believe in a sequel.
in the current situation, i dont believe a word they say, until i see it.

And ppl wonder why the devs don't listen to ppl on this forum. This is a ww2 flight simulator not a landscape sim.

so let me guess RoF landscape is amazing in comparison yeah?

Well I agree to a certain extent. I could happily wait to have the dynamic weather fixed and the tree collision etc, if the rest of the game ran smoothly and was fully functional. The dev's have had many attempts and spent much time on trying to fix the particle/smoke slow down issues with little success, building pop ups, flickering trees and clouds have suffered the same fate, now credit it to them for trying but the results have been poor and have disilusioned many here. Maybe its time to have a quick look at the GUI, Coop's and netcode -fixing these issues could bring many people back to this game.

With that kind of argument, graphic would not have developed at all the last 10 years...

Face the facts, its 2012 and if a game developer cant get even the most basic colours right, then of course people will complain!

ROF does alot of things ALOT better, but im more a ww2 fan so i would like these things in CLOD as well of course... One thing beeing the trees...

you say it...we are talking about a flight simulator here....dont you think that clouds and functioning weather are major features in a flight sim, which add a lot to immersion and realism?

+1

Yes of course but you have but for crying out loud be realistic I am pissed off that we don't have even half the stuff that they said we would I am pissed off that we don't get much communication but I also have the sense/maturity to realise that constantly bitching about things does not lead to them being fixed and if any of the constant moaners here think that they are IN ANY WAY HELPING YOU MY FRIEND ARE IN DENIAL.

Some seriously bad stuff has happened to MG over the past few years and we can either moan or we can offer support and constructive criticism.

I cannot wait to get some decent weather I cannot wait to have more ships to bomb and I am pissed off with the quite frankly terrible FM of both the 109 and spit but I know however slowly they are working they are still WORKING on them and that is all that matters.

So you can be either part of the problem or part of the solution, for every person that want something new/promised added there is someone who wants the game to run smoother.

It's up to you to decide if you want to be helpful or be a hindrance!

Wise words Krupi, +1.

well i tried to be part of the solution for a long time.
but somehow that didnt work out.
i still try to be part of the solution, but didnt you realise, that it doesnt matter anyway.

its not our fault that the game is in its current state, and we all have no influence at all to improve it, if the devs dont listen.

you are sick of the moaning of some members on this board...well others are sick about the devs comms,politics,decisions.
both sides wont change anything.

Edit:beeing realistic?is it really too much to ask for working clouds in a flight sim?i dont even speak of dynamic ones....but in 1946 it worked.its working in every other flight sim...even those arcade ones that soo many hate here.

Krupi, 18 months with still nothing fixed and/or improved is really too much. This game is a total mess all around. To many years before, too many months now....with nothing if not some nice models and cockpits. We disagree about everything on this forum, how can we hope this CoD could never be the new IL2? Do you understand this at least?

They are using you as betasters for a engine that is a total mess and without any intention to fix - developed - improved CoD, if not in the "sequel", but be sure we'll never have THE Battle of Britain because there is no interest at all from developers to improve it. They care less than nothing about the BoB.

The BoB without clouds and a static weather is simple ridiculous, and this is non acceptable at all considering that IL2, 11 years ago, did it better......

...but, you know it: "we'll fix it in the sequel".

I really hope that this total mess that is called CoD could be trashed as soon as possibile. We'll give them a chance for the ETO.

btw, im not your friend, and if you think you changed a tad with your attitude the last 1,5years, than you are in denial. :grin:

Tell that to the ATAG and JG27 guys they are constantly improving the game in there own way.

Hats off to Wolf and colander and the others who they work with S!

thats true, but that has nothing to do with your argument in the first place.

?

You can't be serious? The beta patches have been a major improvement. Just count the number of crash threads since the last beta. Stability had to be one of the major points that was consistently brought up. It's all but vanished.

look Krupi, i didnt say anything about atag or any other squads beeing not productive and good for the community...
but even the atag guys with their extremely powerfull server are very restricted in their possibilities because of so many problems the game has.

i did say, that YOU(not atag) wont change anything with critizising critical posts on this forum, just like i wont change anything when i critizise missing game features or bugs.because you are definitely not changing my opinion, while i and others are obviously ignored by the devs.
simple.

Thanks for entirely proving my point

If no ones at the door why continue knocking! Your just pissing off the neighbours

same could be said about you :)
lets just agree to disagree.i dont think its unrealistic to ask for working weather and you do...

I bet 20,- € that they wont get the weather fixed in the sequel without new and bigger problems and i severely doubt that CoD with its /(%$§ engine will be mixable with the great new engine everybody there is talking about.. but we will see.. :)

....im the bookie :)

Well I am not the one asking for the next game to be free...

Oh see that I can things up as well, clever!!

???????????????
and who is?
Edit:if you really want to take this further, PM me and lets not hijack this thread...maybe ill answer :)

Please point out the post I made telling you to stop asking for weather!

I said constructive criticism was the way to go not screaming at the devs..

Making stuff up, a typical sign of someone who knows they are wrong, runaway before you embarrass yourself further

and i say, the way you critizise doesnt matter at all for the devs.it shouldnt at least as they are professionals, and should only focuse on the point made in the critic no matter how loud someone shouts and in what manner as long as the complainer has a valid point.

over and out :)

just release the damn code, and we will do it by ourselves!

Krupi I dont know what youre on, but calm down!!
A few posts up you said you were mature.. To me you sound more like a 14 year old... Now just calm down and accept that not all people share your opinion.

Some animals put their head in the sand, not wanting to see a problem, just like political correct media, others bring the issue up for discussion. And as annoying as that might for the "ostrich media" or people who dont want to hear things that can tear their values apart, it still has to mentioned and discussed!

They are changing the engine now, right in front of our eyes, with each beta patch, so the process is already underway.

I'm not sure I'm ready to take you up on the bet though...:)...there will need to be tremendous work done to get the originally-planned dynamic weather system optimised enough to be playable without sending fps crashing through the floor again.

Add in the planned MMO and improvements to the net code required for that and it looks like a very tall order.

And given the time taken to get the engine revamp to final Steam release quality, it is difficult not to conclude that something will have to give. :sad:

(I suspect it will be the MMO. Maybe put back to the 2nd sequel...?

They have been just too damned ambitious with this whole thing. Putting off driveable tanks and MMO until the basics are done is surely the most sensible choice.)

Oh I am so offended... :rolleyes:

Yes some ppl bury there heads in the sand and others behave like babies and throw there toys out the pram. Me! Well I'm stuck in the middle between these two idiotic groups who both think they are correct.

As I said I am not happy with the games state but I am far less happy with how the "community" is taking it. A small struggiling company making a not so profitable highly complex piece of software under constant criticism, what a great working environment!

That's how I see it. It's not about whinging or wishing ill on the devs.

It's an 'elephant in the room' issue. Not commenting on or acknowledging the disappointments of the last year and a half is just unrealistic imo.

But it should be balanced too. Think most of the comment in this thread has been,