Fultures!
 

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I never play online because of bad experience in IL-1946 with vultures tath never left a pilot get of the ground by wayting over the airfield and shooting on the ground every body. I see at my first try it did not change at alll, fantastic and you are critical about some problem in the game in your place I should be ashame of your way of playing...bye have a lot of joy as a lot of vultures.

Try taking off at a different base.

If you get so upset about being shot down, maybe computer games aren't for you.

Try another server, if you were at ATAG they allow Vultures other do not try them.

Everyone at some point gets pissed off with vultures, your not alone ;) but don't let them put you off COD online from what I hear its in a much better state than offline.

Not shot down but the fact that some are waiting the spawning so they shoot you on the ground is not normal and never realy happened, a air raid and vultures are not the same, and is only possible because there is no defense over the airfield. When you have air superiority you can have opportunity planes in landing, if there is not to much tripl A over the airfield. With this sort of player you do not have a chance to take of, if you like it, maybe you do it?

feltchers?

as a side note vultching is entirely historical. even on heavily defended airfields it could and often did happen, just a single pass and then go. many accounts of the same as well.

Don't spawn at the coastal bases, especially Hawkinge. Problem solved.

War is hell!:)

I think vulturing is a great part of the game, and Im greatfull its alowed on ATAG. On some other servers, it was not allowed so I stoped flying there. To many ruels. like playing in a sandbox for kids only. ;)
It was a part of the war and its a part of the game. I have been shoot at many times on the base and it canot upset me at all.

As other suggest, Move to another base and takeoff from there. Dont give up :D

the main reason of a air force isn't to fight other planes in the air but destroy the enemy on ground befor he gets up.

if your prefered base is under fire then choose a different one. that simple.

i'm glad that those vulch whiners from FB/PF/46 times get less nowadays in CloD.

:-)

meh. I NEVER get attacked on take-off.
I don't operate from Hawkinge.
There is ALWAYS a fight over Hawkinge.

It's probably the easiest problem to avoid.

It did not often happend over airfields, they where well defended by triple A.

Do not climb in such case, get as much speed as possible, and survey the guys diving. If one closes from you start a smooth turn and slowly pull to break (hard turn).

If he tries to follow, this simple maneuver will make him loose energy quickly and make him more vulnerable, other aircrafts can them come and help.

If he quits, try to slowly climb while gaining distance from the field.

That's how I usually try to deal with.

...really? What's so great about it exactly? :confused:

depends on who you are :) vulcher or beeing vulched :D

just look at all those beautiful new ricochet tracers. they have been made for making vulching a impressive experience.

That is true, but a few people will always try for an easy kill in games...really nothing to be proud of but, it is their way because they lack the skill's.:)

it depends first who we are in real life :)

Vulchering - LOL... Do I have to get used to the slang aswell as learning to fly this sim? Telling someone to stop Vulchering me is going to be the hardest thing I will face in this sim... Mainly because I will have to keep a straight face while I tell someone to stop Vulchering me. Then I will have to keep my cool and and my temper in check because I cannot resist spawning at the same airbase and been Vulchered.

I love to strafe airfields with the Bf110 after i've dropped my bombload.
Every fighter that gets airborne is my deadly enemy and has the advantage.
Don't let 'em get up and then a swift departure, hoping that there are no other fighters already in the air, looking for easy prey.

Hey

Maybe you had a bad day? I never experienced it that bad, so I suggest you just try again:)

I've beaten this same issue to death.

ATAG won't change it for reasons "so complicated you cannot possibly understand". Our only hope was Wolf's Channel Command mission and they seemed to have taken it out of the mission rotation...also probably for reasons "so complicated you cannot possibly understand."

yeah I've beaten this to death too. And vulching is fine with me.

why not play another server? plenty of people, including me, happily play on ATAG, knowing the rules.

I don't care if I get vulched. I play almost exclusively red, so I hardly spend any time over blue territory anyway. Change airbase away from the combat. It's such a basic solution. you don't need a specially scripted mission. There are plenty of bases to choose from.

Yeah...we all know getting strafed on the ground was a reality in war. You know what else was a reality? Planes having mechanical problems and not starting, pilot being too sick to fly,etc. Why don't they model these things in the game? Because they aren't fun, that's why. Much like getting strafed on a runway while you are warming up your engine.

I guess that's part of the reason I would never fly on ATAG...not a big fan of scoring easy kills on noobs warming up their engines.

got em in IL-2 1946 too now, and looking even better if I'm honest ;-)

One thing is a strafing run after a bombing mission or an airport attack, but loitering over enemy airfields is just not realistic and stupid, what's the fun in shooting something down in a vulnerable position? :confused:

View it as an opportunity:

1. Warm up at Hawkinge, take off, get shot down. Bugger.
2. Take off from an inland base, gain altitude and approach Hawkinge at 10k feet. Dive on the base and engage the vultures with superior energy.

the correct terms are vulture and vulching :)

when i find a vulture i wait for him to cross my sight while im stopped, once almost shot one

I thought the proper definition for vulching in internet air combat slang was:

You shoot up a guy, his engine is on fire heading down, along comes Johhny A-hole and puts 1 more round in him and says "chalk one up for me" and he gets credit for the kill.

+1

Sadly I think some people will never understand this at all. Is it really that hard to spawn away from the front lines if you don't want the possibility of being attacked on the ground? I wouldn't think so. But obviously others are kinda slow in this department.

Lol take off faster.

If you ain't complaining about it then we ain't doing our jobs.

Exactly.

LOL. On the one hand, folks are always talking about trying to get more people involved in simming, on the other hand, they happily strafe noobs on the runway and when they come here complaining about it, we call them "slow" and suggest that combat sims maybe aren't for them.

senseispcc: The best course of action is to just stay off of ATAG's servers. Things like "honor" and "chivalry" are terms that are lost on these guys and boosting their kills on a leaderboard is all they care about. And most surely don't donate any money to their server.

What is the RAF secondary base? There is a runway at a base way north that's tricky to use. I wonder if that is the same one. Maidstone? It's like driving over the lunar surface. bouncy bouncy bouncy bouncy

Well.....you might try having a go at the Spits chewing up your bombers at 14 angels. THOSE Spitfires actually shoot back! LOL

I don't know what it is going to take. It seems no matter how many post come up about it people always insist on spawning close to the channel.

No matter where you spawn it just takes that one person that gets zapped and they're in here with big crocodile tears crying about it.

There's also Rochester nearby that's much better, plus Canterbury that the LW can't find because we camouflaged the cathedral. :)

Newsflash for Doc...the majority of folks that purchased this game don't even know this forum is here and don't come here. Just another reason to show why a proper co-op GUI is needed...to get more servers out there to avoid this ATAG airquake "spawn camping" bs.

Doesn't apply in Cliffs of Dover. It can't happen that way.

New players don't have to come here. They see the ATAG server as one of the busier servers and decide to log on. Via the chat window they initiate contact with other players very quickly. The newbies are always advised to check the briefing page in front of them on their screen to

1) come to the ATAG Forum - which is mutiplayer centric - and,
2) get Teamspeak 3 with instructions on getting on ATAG's TS server

From there they can quickly find out how to best enjoy flying on the ATAG Server. If they want an "Airquake" experience - great! We'll point 'em towards the nearest furball. If they want a more complex squadron experience - fighters and/or bombers - that's fine, too. Plenty of squadrons willing to recruit and guide the new player along. Vulching a problem? We'll teach the new player how tactics and teamwork turns vulchers into targets.

We have many new players coming in every week, most by simply logging into the ATAG Server from the games's multiplayer GUI.

I'm not trying to get more people involved with simming. People either like it or they don't. What I don't understand is the very basics of people complaining about their own bad decisions. I guess people always like to pass the buck.

And what are you talking about honor and chivalry? This is a video game. If people are going to whine and complain about being shot down while playing a video game, I'm going to take a wild guess and say they need to step away from their PCs for a bit. If you are an enemy, in the air or on the ground, you are a valid target. It's pretty simple. One would think it's even more simple to look at the map, location of objectives, read the briefing etc., and realize if you spawn near the front, there's probably a good chance of enemies around. I wouldn't think it would take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. And I don't know any person that's a stats whore. Heck the stats are reset all the time anyways. I'm sure there are other squads out there that probably wear the uniform while they play and deal with ranks and weird shit like that, but we're just about having fun. We realize it's a video game.

I remember one guy on coms, can't remember what his name was, but he was crying about getting vulched while taking off in a blenny. I asked what base he was taking off from and sure enough it was the blenny base right near the front lines. Then I asked him why he wouldn't take off from another airfield inland, his response was he didn't want to have to fly that far. Now mind you, this guy pulled me away from flying to bitch about this, something as simple as spawning from a different airfield which he wouldn't do. Then he has the gall to tell me it's the mission's fault. That's when you throw up your hands and just laugh. People want to be able to get in the action fast, but if they happen to get shot down because they made the decision to spawn where the action is, all they want to do is complain.

Hopefully those types will finally just move on to some other game or some other server that suits their needs / forces them to take the critical thinking part of where to spawn etc. I know plenty of people that enjoy the game, enjoy spawning in the front lines, and enjoy the fact they may get shot at on the ground because of it. What I enjoy most is I have the right to choose to spawn inland where I know I'll never get attacked on the ground or have the choice to spawn near the front lines where there's a good chance I will get attacked. Either way, I'll enjoy it. Video games are recreation to me.

I think senseispcc's problem/anger comes from the fact that he plays SP. In SP you basically know what's going to happen, you have control over when the mission starts, how you can fly, where you can meet the objectives/flight groups etc. When you join a dynamic environment online, all that control is lost. Anything and everything can happen at any time. Your tactics revolve around the current situation which can only really be known by those flying together and talking. So you spawn right in the nearest airfield and without a doubt someone saw you and strafed the crap out of you for it. I think stuff like this is why SP folks won't play MP and MP folks don't play SP. I like the dynamic ever changing environment, not knowing what's going to happen, where the enemies are, etc., is the best part. While in SP it's kinda the opposite.

Everyone that is ok with vulching seems to forget that vulching sucks a large percentage of players into that area of the mission, often leaving people that are smart enough to not bother with the "airquake condition" completely alone to shoot at AI bombers...and that's pretty boring.

When vulching happens, the Blue's are hanging around Hawkinge looking for easy kills, the Red's know this and either attempt a take-off from Hawkinge to get into a quick fight, or get a tad bit smarter and spawn at a further airbase only to head to Hawkinge because they know that's where the Blue's are. This further exacerbates the problem. This giant wonderfully complex and detailed mission on this GIANT wonderfully complex map suddenly gets pigeonholed into a square mile of frustration.

Yes it's a stupid result of people being stupid OR making bad choices, but it's what is going to happen over and over...because people are stupid and/OR make bad choices. It's not that I'm trying to criticize or degrade "people" but I simply cannot use any other word to describe them.

The "airquake condition" can be dealt with and fixed, or it can be ignored advertised as a beneficial part of a server's assets.

ATAG's choice. I think they're shooting themselves in the foot, IMO. They hold the balance of this game's online community in their hands, and I feel the stage they're setting for themselves is getting volatile very quickly.

BTW, With the current base configuration over in England, simply spawning at another base is not a solution. Red have three general areas to spawn from, Hawkinge/Lympne and Ramsgate/Manston...both pairs close enough to each other to be considered *one* strafable area to a vulture...and Eastchurch which leaves Red little choice but to navigate over the hotspots I just mentioned to get into theater. Blue, on the other hand, has so many bases strewn across the coast and inland that I cannot even read most of them on the map unless I zoom in to the maximum...that alone negates many vulture attempts, but not before Red is shot down by the extremely dense 5x5 *GRIDS* (wtf!??!?!) of AAA.

A friend and I once logged onto the server to fly some sorties...there were 4 Reds including us and about 7 blue. We spawn at Hawkinge since we thought it would be quiet due to low population...nope. Four 109's in the air and on us before we hit 200mph. Ok fair game, our fault..."it's Hawkinge." I thought. So we move to Manston, start warming up, roll down the runway, and wheels up...BAM! Black screen. Killed by a 109 pilot...one of the same four from Hawkinge. See the trend here? What's the solution for that?

EDIT: Wait, I got it...I know the solution. I'm just gonna start flyin blue. I paid for the game just like everyone else, I have every right to play it just as everyone else does and won't be hamstrung by bad decisions.

You don't need to convince me about coop. I coop eveytime I play.

Youre in love with yourself.

Question: How can you complain about being shot down when you never get off the ground?

This sums up perfectly the problem with ATAG

What the hell is dynamic about the same vulchers looking for easy pickens around Hawkinge? You need to look up "dynamic" in the dictionary Bliss.

Actually, if you read Aborted mans whole post it sums up why ATAG is more or less rediculous. We all know you are dead set against co-ops Bliss, I'm guessing you are a former quake player and like the predictability of what happens on the ATAG server?

lol. of course only the blue ones do vulching. :rolleyes:

and of course as a spitfire pilot you always fight against even or stronger enemies and never against big slow planes hanging in the air like lame ducks.

come on. :rolleyes:

in war it's the nature of man to wipe out the weaker ones first. what's wrong with it?

Yeah. And?

I find it offensive that you pigeonhole all blue players with this label.

I think this thread needs more moderation to curtail all the slanderous insults and abuse we blue guys have to endure in these forums.

You've nailed it perfectly.

If I only had one wish, it would be those that seem to know how to do it "right" and create a non-r"e"diculous server would stop being so shy and come out and do it. Watching the people that truly know how to do this sort of thing, just sitting in the back ground with such a vast knowledge of mission building and how to do it right, without stepping up to the plate is frustrating. I hope for the day when the loudest voices - the obvious one's that really know how to build those perfect missions come out and show us people with 1000's of hours building missions how it's done right.

Please please show us the way. Obviously the ATAG server is complete garbage and so are the missions.

Sincerely,

A dedicated airquake, non-historic, garbage server owner that doesn't know anything.

Thanks.

Bliss the server is so ghetto

What's with al this crybabies taking shots at ATAG like tey owe you something?
Aren't you fools forgeting that, without the guys from ATAG, tying so hard to keep a solid server runing great, while the game was close to garbage, this game would have been dead vor a long time. At least the online part of it.
ATAG server, and the people working hard to keep it runing , with the endless stream of bugs, from patch to patch, is in large part the reason you have an online community still active.

Vulching is part of the air wars, and it is part of the game. Get used to it. Front line bases were always visited by enemy planes. The Russian airforce was basically raped on the ground at the begining of the war. The il2's were constantly attacking enemy airfields troughout the war.
After ten minutes of warm up and 20 minutes flight in a bomber, when I get close to the enemy targets, if I have escorting fighters, I'll always ask them to try to suppress the airfield close to the target until we get the bombs out. That means shooting at anyone that even thinks about taking a plane up to interfere with our mission.
On ATAG there are plenty of bases away from the action, to take off without any danger.
I thought this was common sense by now, after so many years of online playing. :rolleyes:
No matter what flying online game you play, it's always been this way.

I suppose that if the enjoyment of your simming experience reduces itself to vulching, then you really got into the wrong genre.

Sure, it's a laugh every now and then, but if it becomes a habit, then it's only a counterproductive attitude that will push people away. Where's the fun in that anyway? There's no fair measure in a dogfight or by using a better tactic, it's just coming down on someone who's in the most vulnerable position and maybe struggled all the way back after a mission and is looking forward to a good landing..

I refrain from joining servers that allow vulching, simply because you know it's gonna end up in a puerile airquake..

Only add some flak ....

Damaged enemy aircraft over the air base is always priceless... B)

yeah well, an easy kill is an easy kill, eh? no skill required

I think the whole debate is hilarious, to be honest.

As many here have said: If you're being vulched, then gtfo that airfield and accept that you'll have to do a bit of flying in order to get to the fight. Simple as that. Or, if you don't like being vulched, don't play on ATAG where that sort of thing is allowed. Bitching about how ATAG sucks because they don't have anti-vulching rules is, quite frankly, silly and borderline idiotic. If you don't like how something is run, don't go there. Hell, set up your own server with your own rules instead. Of course, that takes more work than most people are willing to put in, but hey, it's a solution.

While I don't usually play online, I will, if the opportunity arises, use every possible means I have to kill you. My basic instinct is that if I can kill you on the ground, you're one less tosspot that will get airborne to challenge my rather horrendous situational awareness and worse gunnery-skills. If I'm being vulched, I'll just spawn at a different airbase and then use the altitude/speed to enter/exit the fight Boom'n'Zoom-style. I will use every single advantage I have and can use in order to shoot you down, just as I expect you to use every single advantage and skill YOU have in order to swat my silly butt out of the sky. To do anything less would be stupid.

In a combatflightsim, I fight to win. That's the plain, naked truth of it. I fight to help my TEAM win. And I will use every dirty tactic that I within reason and within the rules can apply to do it. Hell, I will, if I'm completely out of ammo, low on fuel/heavily damaged and too far away from an airfield, even ram you if need be. I might die, but I'm taking you with me.

Avoiding vulchers is hilariously easy, as all you have to do is spawn at an airbase further away from the frontlines. Yes, you might have to spend 5 minutes flying to the combatzone, but you'll be in a superior tactical situation at that point. Few, if any, people realize this.

you will always have a chance against vulchers!
its the most statisfying kill, if you shoot down a player, who feels safe and convinced to kill you in a second when he dives on you...fight as hard as possible, fly clean and turn the tables!
its possible and its fun believe me!
everybody is welcome to try to vulch me!

The only reason I'm being critical Bliss is because you were so vocal against a more intuitive co-op gui. You stated you "hate" co-op style of play, and therefore would like to "pigeon-hole" everyone to your style of play. So it's pretty clear you will never have that sort of thing on your server and that's fine since it's yours. But trying to stifle a legitiment style of play and a requested feature because you hate co-op, isn't helping the sim expand to online squads that have been waiting for this.

i think you have a good point (btw maybe edit your tittle, its "vultures" not fultures ;) )

in a real life setting, other then an airbase just having been severely bombed, you would have AA flak going of and sirens blowing to warn you of nearby or incoming enemy planes

bit odd ATAG servers dont use AA flak guns and sirens at their airfields (was available on il2-1946 servers), is there a technical reason for this ? seems a bit odd of an omission and so is not even be willing to accept comments over it. ignoring criticism of this omission is a good example of the "fake real" point whores who ignorantly think it represents a real life situation. sadly this online behavior is only encouraged by the mutual gratification behavior of their air quake peers, so unlikely to change anytime soon.

The argument isn't about "I'm being vulched, this sucks!"

Vulching negates an entire mission by attracting lesser attentive players to one area. One single small area...which in turn ruins combat for the strategy-minded players because a server with 40+, hell, even 10+, should be chock-full of fighter formations roaming about the map and completing objectives (that you as a mission builder worked so hard on) is now a desolate and barren wasteland of blue.

You naysayers can't deny the negative effect on gameplay a majority of a team hovering around a single base has, whether it's a "valid" style of gameplay or not, it's detrimental to the majority. Spawning at another base to get away from the threat while taking off doesn't fix anything, because EVERYONE needs to do it, but that will never happen...stop dreaming that it will. Yes, you and I see the solution, but the major public does not, and never will. Besides, they'll spawn at the other base and head straight to the vulched base. Happens every time.

sure, but the AA folks wouldnt be having a nap, or have the rest of the base crew sitting in their sun-chairs smoking their pipe saying "hey what old chap, bad luck there was a fake-real jerry camper around to ruin your day, lets have another crumpet"

its all about context. lone enemy fighters attacking an airbase on their own (unusual in itself because of the risk) and then not having some warning/alert from the airbase in question, MOST unusual. right now on ATAG you can have undefended forward airbases with a constant cluster of enemy planes camping right over them, and no warnings by ATC or AA, and no nearby airbases dispatching fighters to dislodge the campers. so no, its not realistically representing a normal ww2 airfield scenario

nothing wrong with "being allowed" to vulch, setting artificial rules to not allow it doesnt solve anything

the question is, is having a constant swarm of vultures camping over non-defended airbase realistically representing a typical ww2 scenario, obviously not

no, thats "kill stealing" :P

if you'd want a zoological label or new nomenclature for that situation, then we need something new, eg an animal that is a cowardly scavenger (strictly speaking, the hyena and jackal dont fit that description because they do kill most of their own prey in the wild)

hear, hear !!

them is wise words

that indeed could be the main problem

if their server is setup to deliberately represent a non-real scenario (not proving AA at airbases, no siren warnings, and no nearby airfields dispatching fighters [human or AI] to dislodge fake-real campers), then rewarding that kind of behavior with a point system is a major part of the problem.

S!

+1 to what Fjordmonkey said.

Taking off or landing, they're still the enemy and valid targets. Vulcher guilty as charged. And I welcome everyone to vulch me in return :)

War is hell etc. Just pick the not-so-close-to-the-fight -field and you're safe from vulching. Or if you must take off from the front field, fly low and fast away from the direction of fighting before starting to climb.

Mission editors CAN make vulching much harder if they choose so, placing heavy AAA around the airfields.

According to Bliss it's impossible.

First off, ATAG has lots of Flak guarding both RAF and Luftwaffe airfields. I've been hit by Flak so many times over England at 3500m that I try to avoid the area completely.

Secondly, in the last 3 months I can count the number of times I have been shot before takeoff on one finger. It's not that people aren't doing it, it's because I'm on Teamspeak for a few minutes before I even enter the game and have an understanding of what's going on before I even create a plane.

As to the ridiculous notion that Blue has better airfield placement and therefore is less susceptible to being pinned down by people shooting planes on the ground, maybe you should go back to 1940 and tell the RAF to move those damn airfields further away from each other.

If you think being shot full of holes 10 seconds after creating a plane is annoying, try taking off 70km from the French coast, forming up a group of three bombers, and being shot down an hour into your flight 3 minutes before you reach target. You can create another new plane if yours gets shot up before you take off and what have you lost, 20 seconds?

Does getting shot down when I’m that far into a bomber mission make me angry? Hell ya it does, but what am I going to do? Should I blame the spitfire pilot for being smart enough to find us, and for doing exactly what I would have done if I’d come across 3 Blennys while flying a 109?

AbortedMan, you mention the night when I was involved in bouncing you when you left Hawkinge and then meeting you again when you took off from Manston. I apologize for this, next time I will try not to out-smart you when you are on the server.

i seriously doubt that

adding heavy AA and sirens at airfields might eat into the fpsec and result in less players being able to use the server maybe. so you'd have a choice of a more realistic scenario with less players or more people on a relatively bad server that encourages non-real behavior (and even rewards it)

Yeah right...that's the same. At least you got in the air and were flying. Not just sitting on the ground warming up the engines. Did you read the thread?

Ah a thread on the validity of vulching as an online tactic, it looks like COD really is coming into its own, I haven't seen one of these since the UBI forums, ah good times ahead :)

On topic I've ALWAYS supported the right to vulch if one wants, as has been stated over and over and over, if your being vulched, spawn at another airbase get alt. boom and zoom the crap outa the vulchers at the original airbase, or if the mood strike go to THEIR airfield and give em the good news back, or even just for something a bit crazy go and do the objectives and bomb the crap outa their targets. Heaps of options really.

All the people here who think vulching is the worst thing in online gaming still haven't said WHY they can't just spawn at another base, I'm honestly curious why its so hard for you to do.

LOL! was thinking the same. The developers must be doing something right when we get a good old fashion 20+ thread on vulching. Seems as if people are playing the game again. :)

Vultures can only vulch if an airfield is unprotected.

If people are unwilling to fly patrols over their own airfieds or at least divert to the airfield when a call goes out on teamspeak or chat then there is the whole team to blame.

Remember that a single strafing run over an airfield is not vulching. To really vulch your need air superiority over the field.

I supose the Devs are right in wanting to let us man AA guns. Hey couldn't we have aFPS system where we can pretend to be in the Pearl Harbour film and climb up into the control tower with Bren Guns!

Cool!

The AA at manston is pretty heavy as it also comes across from ramsgate. Looking for the German targets in that area in a lone Stuka was pretty scary, After a dive all the AA converged and took me down. About 8 different bofors had scored hits. (on ATAG)

here we go again. finally the really important things are beeing discussed :D

Vulching should only be allowed if there is FLAK at the bases, then it's realism, without it's the fault of the mission builder for being lazy, every base should have a ring of FLAK emplacements around it, and a few scattered along the coastline for good measure. This makes it a gamble to attempt an airfield attack.

Getting vulched is just like any other mistake you can make as a sim pilot.
there will always be vulchers and its your job as a good sim pilot to know where the enemies are likely to be and when you are putting yourself in danger. This is called situational awareness.

Atag is clear on its rules thats that. If you dont like them set up your own server. It sounds like there could br a bit if a following!!!!

For all you off-line players who dont like vulching do you always wait for the ai planes to take off and gain altitude before attacking. I bet not you're straight in there vulching the poor old ai

noooo... its called; what happened to (the much cried for) "balance?"

A few ideas:

1.- We can bring down the server - No more complaints
2.- We can ban all the complainers - No more complaints
3.- We can password protect the server - No more complaints

Maybe this way, whiners will create their own server and make amazingly great missions that every one (read 100%) of the pilots love. I think that with this incentive, many incredibly good servers will pop up!

Thanks,
ATAG_Colander

I think it's vulcherized?

I've tried to see your point here but I really can't. You seem emotional and perhaps unhappy? I suggest you find somewhere else to play.

Who can take this topic seriously? I mean really. They're not serious. They're here to complain about no coops, the sim, you, me and anything they can get away with and laugh when you respond. They are multiple account holders and they belong to a group and on anothet site or chat laugh about the attention. Seriously now. Its not really anything. Just trolls.

I thought it was 'vulcherizationessness'.

Why do all you ATAG guys take everything as a personal attack when the economics of gameplay is brought up about your current server condition?

You sir win the prize for quoting out of context, and completely failing to see the point! :rolleyes:

My personal experience on this subject is I am ok with it, I fly Red mostly, I have launched from coastal airfields quite a few times, and to be honest if I cant get off the ground there I launch farther back... if Blue controls the air over our airfields... sorta seems like our fault :)

Taken from wikipedia: supercalifragilisticexpialivulchious

Dont ask me to show my sources... they need to remain protected...

Ok, I'll try and explain what I believe to be your error. Generalization, "All you ATAG guys", it's similar to your generalizations about the server, without evidence and incorrect.

You seem to be unable to contribute to the discussion in a positive manner. The ATAG server is merely an attempt by a generous fan of the game to provide a means to enjoy the game. I do fear though that this facility may not be available to any of us much longer. I can only hope that there's another out there with the ability and resources necessary to provide similar.

I remain entirely unclear as to your point. I believe you have the answers to your generalized criticism available both here and at ATAG. You know this so there is perhaps another agenda, I'd like to know what it is.

I hope you are able to believe that I don't take any of your comments personally, I don't respect you so I cannot afford them sufficient weight but I do see the damage they do, hence my response.

I hope that you can become a little more positive and accurate in your criticism as such effort is useful and welcomed.

Septic.

prove that they took this as a "personal attack" (TM) first before you go asking why.

The online community attempts to address an issue that they feel needs attention and you call it complaints and threaten with shutting down/banning/locking...nice.

This thread is a lot better than most on this forum. It's fairly constructive criticism and the posts are mostly thought-out and voiced concerns of player's opinions, why the instant "troll" label?

S!

Vulching/spawn camping/insert your word here/ is present in any game. Live with it or quit playing/change game/server/whatever if the server allows it. Personally I do not do it..if I catch a plane on ground with my bombs if the field is a target listed then it is a bonus. But staying near a hornets' nest = begging for trouble :) Rather go in fast for the target and get the hell out even faster :)

They raised an issue, but in the negative. This is otherwise known as a complaint. I call it a complaint.
It's a complaint.

I bet most real 109 pilots would rather have caught British planes on the ground than in the air :D

1.- Is not "The online community". Is a handful of people.
2.- It will be fairly constructive once all the "critics" have their own server and share experiences in mission building. Until then, criticizing is just that, criticizing.
3.- When some one that does have the experience tries to explain why things are one way or the other and I see him get attacked by people with no interest in understanding what is being said, I call that trolling.
4.- When trolls attack, people gets tired of trolls.
5.- When people gets tired of trolls....

Way to paraphrase and take that sentence out of context...try using the entire piece of what someone says when you quote next time. It'll keep the discussion on track.

If 1C threatened with banning/shutting down/locking the game for people that tried to raise an issue, but in the negative...aka, a "complaint" do you think that'd be a valid way to support/address/improve things for people?

Someone has an opinion so they vocalized it on a forum, where it belongs. The OP had a legitimate concern, and as broken as his English may be, he was constructive and civil...now 9 pages later you're bickering at me about the definition of a "complaint," server admins are talking of shutting down servers and banning the people stating their opinions...it's ridiculous.

I should just start acting like the real troll that I'm being treated like, CAPSLOCK and trollface pics and all.

Dude, the online community IS a handful of people!

I believe you are misunderstanding the situation entirely and that this misunderstanding fuels your grievance and attitude. I prefer to believe this to the only other alternative, that you are indeed a Troll.

ATAG is not a corporation, it's not a business, there's no grand-plan, it all hinges on one man. You perhaps don't believe it but it is merely an individual's altruistic endeavor.

Please prove my belief right, understand the real situation and call an end to this.

Septic.

Feet back on the ground and a lesson from history. Please forgive me if I don't get the books off the shelf and trawl through for the exact airfield and Geshwader but Al Deere in his book "Nine Lives" and Pierre Closterman (who was on the same raid in a different Squadron) in his book "The Big Show" tell of the time they took off across the channel to a LW airfield to where FW190s had just relocated.

The plan was for Deere's wing to fly at treetop level to the LW field and hit them on the ground. The French Squadron was to loiter south at low altitude to intercept any interference from other LW units.

As Deere's Wing approached the field they saw from a distance the entire Geschwader lined up for takeoff. By the time they go there the alarm had been raised and the FWs were up and running in all directions. They shot up what they could at the field but if they had arrived two minutes earlier.......

Yes there was lots of flak but most of them got away with it due to surprise.

There are other similar stories.

So, expect it, it happens/happened. Extend your gameplay experience. Take off from a safe field, fly with others, get position and advantage if you can. If you want simple safe lone-wolf shoot 'em ups fly somewhere other than ATAG. Try the Repka servers.

All you've done is act like a troll with every single one of your posts. I've already answered your questions 10x now. And if you had any sort of clue about the FMB or what's possible in the current online situation you would have left it alone or believed when I said we HAVE to do things a certain way because of certain issues.

And you're trying to compare 1c to us? 1c is a company that makes money. People are paying for their products. ATAG on the other hand has a small amount of people that aren't being paid and doing work on their own free time and spend our own money to try to give to the community. You are pathetic. And you will not be frequenting our server anymore.

So, how does that make you feel?

Haha oh this is rich.

I've never once addressed you, Bliss, in any of my posts until you chimed in and I was replying. Look back at anything I've said before replying to you and you'll see I was merely discussing thd cause and effects of player's actions in an online mission (not even referring to ATAG's missions, mind you), but you've seemed to take it as a personal jab, for what reason I don't know.

If you want to ban me from your server for talking about game mechanics, that's your perogative, but get your ban hammer ready, because if it isn't me it's going to be someone else.

Funny how you'd ban myself for posting on a forum, non-slanderous opinions btw, but you won't ban known cheaters.

Not too worried about it.

Ahem. You don't speak for anyone but yourself, or a small subset of the CLoD-community, at the very best. Just sayin'

It WAS constructive, until it turned into a slugfest against everything and anyone ATAG.

Now, I'm not affiliated with them in any way, shape or form, but my pervious arguement still stands: If you don't like how they run THEIR server that THEY pay for, don't play on it. Simple as that.

You want a No Vulching-rule? Set up and pay for your own server.
You want a "fair" fight? Set up and pay for your own server.
You want to set which rules apply to where, when and who? Set up and pay for your own server.

Because right now all you're doing is step into another man's livingroom and demanding he change the color of the paint on the wall since it doesn't appeal to you.

It's less funny however how you chose to ignore all my responses and attempts to explain the situation to you.

I suspect it's your manner old chum, I've tried quite politely to explain this. For another example; Who precisely is cheating? Where, when how?

In all honesty I don't care any longer. Your prediction that there will be many others like you is, like all your assertions, a meaningless generalization. Thankfully the only evidence we have to judge the likely accuracy of your prediction that "...it will be someone else" shows precisely the opposite. There's only been one other I believe in the last year and a half. The vast majority of those who inhabit the server are fair-playing, fair-minded gamers seeking to pursue their harmless hobby for fun. Hopefully it will be as long again before we see your like again.

Cheerio,

Septic.

except of course that on the current ATAG server (which is only important in this discussion because it is the only major CoD server that has been running for a number of months so that is where new players are likely to go to first) there is no decent AA at these forward allied airfields, and no sirens warning of camping vultures when you spawn there, and additional it is the permanent same fake-real air quake scenario every day at those airfields, that's what makes it boring and fake

in your above historical example, just pretend there was no AA present, and the same thing happened day in day out during the whole 4 year war, do you really think that the germans at that airfield would be looking at each other in amazement "ahh ze brittish they are so smart, every day now they come and bomb us and we are alwayz completely zurprised by them, ze AA guys are having a nap unt ze air tower guys have gone to ze pub unt forgot to set ze alarms, these clever british always seem to know this ahead of time and just keep shooting up our planes on ze ground"

realistic ? err nope !

Dunno if this has been said already as I couldn't be bothered to go through all the guff on this thread. (I save that for when it is 2am and I need a good giggle. :D)

Cheating is finding a way, through nefarious means, to have a bullet proof plane or, perhaps, infinite ammo on a realistic settings server.

Vulching is WAR.

This is a simulation of war.

It is very frustrating being Vulched but, as it is a simulation of a war, I'm fairly sure dying or losing a war and having your country invaded is a bit of an inconvenience also. :D

.
Hello,
First I am sorry I begun all this polemic about this tactics of “vultures”.
Personally I am against, not because it is not realistic, because it is not really in the beginning of the war but more at the end when the numbers where staked against one side that could not do anything against the superiority of the other side. It is not the same to have a hit and run raid against a airfield and a “vulture” airplane(s) waiting for a victim to take of or land. The Allies with their offensive tactics did do it sometime until the cost was to expensive due to the “flack” or the defensive patrols above such airfields (expl.ME262/FW190d9).
But this is a game and I see no fun for either the person that sho (not down because the plane taking of is not airborne) at the person that is trying to take off and it is certainly no fun for the person how is shoot at how did warm up his engine, made his circuit around the airfield to align at the end of the runway to be shoot at the precise moment where his rudder wheel is lifting his plane does crash. Otherwise we shall end up with servers with 20 Germans against 1 new RAF pilot how can never take off? Or the other way around! If this is your definition of fun so be it! Have fun your way. I am trying to find the right server, balanced where someone with glasses can see an adversary from time to time at equal terms.
Have a nice time with this great game. Never forget this is a game.
:-P

"Every time I put my hand on THAT workbench, someone smashes it with a hammer!"

Then why don't you put your hand on another workbench?

Reply: "Every time I put my hand on THAT workbench, someone smashes it with a hammer!"

:confused: