Is this the New Winston Churchill?
 

Politics aside, he's a compelling and formidable speaker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llDYLb7HoIk

I'm actually surprised they still allow him in the EU Parliament, he's so vehemently anti-Euro and anti-EU, still he greedily sucks from the big EU tit... I suppose they keep him for the entertainment factor, especially now that Berlusconi is not around lol

Wow, I wish we had realists like this here. Farage seems to have a pair of brass ones and calls it like it is. Not a sniveling sycophant that's for sure.
Im glad that there are still politicians that put the good of their nation before others.

Britain under threat from plot to create super-powerful EU president 'that will mean the end to nation states'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1u0O1z1V3

That is the problem with the UK governments.
On the one hand they constantly bemoand the lack of democracy of the EU. On the other hand, at every attempt to get in more democracy, and thus legitimacy, they block and moan.

A directly voted for EU President has been on the Agenda for a long time, always blocked by the UK.

And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is one reason why nobody is taking the UK serious anymore in Europe. Because they are just here to moan and whine (like the naysayers here in this forum), never to make a constructive contribution of any kind on the political level.

Britian is only in the EU to have a say at what happens on its door step. They wont go balls deep but they wont pull out. They dont want to give the power up but if it did - it could actually be stronger...

Britian is just backwards (imo) so many things done on the continent are better and if we wernt so arrogant we could learn allot from Europe. The fat cats and officials at the top just dont want someone in Brussels telling them how much they earn... Its the insulation from the channel all over again... That little strip of water has shaped this country so much...

We, in Britian, still drive on the wrong side of the road ffs... :-P

there are some idiosyncrasies and differences between the UK and Europe (and the rest of the world for the matter) that are just impossible to change.

The UK should stay an independent country for its own good, but it's obvious that on the long run sitting on the fence and barking at who's making policies will be considered annoying and uncommitted.

What good? We are not the British empire any more... Wake up.

Empires are not economically and morally viable anymore, the UK did incredibly well in other sectors. This country flourished when it invested in R&D and finance, and the wealth generated by this was the engine that carried everybody else along.
This has changed lately and the result is a stalemate which can be even more dangerous if not addressed on time.

I believe the UK should stay well out of the Eurozone, but should really work better when it comes to economic interactions. The stupid naysaying attitude of this government and clowns like Farage aren't doing us a great deal of good :rolleyes:

The problem of modern western economys is that they let go production in other countries and focus more on service. But that's the wrong way in my opinion, because a qualified worker in production earns more than some service worker. Also without production no service. Aslo without agriculture, no food on your table.

I don't call for "Protect your industry by taxes", just give them a frame in which they are able to compete with others. It would be also helpfull to change the productionlines to metric system. That would open a bigger market for selling.

But asking a british to change from inch to metric is like insulting them...

Try being British....you get to see threads full of this anti british crap all the time.

this is a bit generalised. The main reason to move services and productions abroad is "to cut costs" they say, what they don't seem to keen on cutting it's their profit though.
Government allowed for this for too long, which surely helped other countries standing up economically (and slowly catching up with us), but on the flipside it allowed only a certain layer of society to get wealthier, sacrificing the well being of many others.
Some stuff we can't do without importing (such as food and veg), but one thing we could surely cut on is the insanity of wanting to have ALL the products all the way through the year, completely discarding the concept of seasonal produce in favour of "I want my strawberries in January and that's it!". I've seen some jewellery shop prices for some veg at our local Morrisons lately, and frankly I wonder what the hell are they actually thinking...

It's not a matter of metric or imperial, things here have changed according to what the Government wants (petrol used to be sold in gallons in the UK, now it's litres), it's a matter of assessing an economic policy that really keeps into account all social layers and provides people with a solid job opportunity.

fixed there.

The problem these days is that the economy has long left national boundaries and is acting internationally, without nationstates in Europe able to wield much influence over it anymore. Democracy on the national level has become a farce for the last 20 years already, in Europe and the US both.

aaawww come on man, we don't live in a perfect country, but it's not about anti-British, when people make critics to things here they're questioning the principles, not the nationality of a policy. Especially in a country with such a broad variety of ethnies and social classes, the concept of "anti-British" is terribly anachronistic.

I didn't ask that they have to give up completely on the inch system.
Gas and waterlines in germany are still in inches.
What I mean is that it would open more opportunities.

for example? :confused:

-Better and faster calculations for productions processes,
-lesser calculation errors ( Nasa lost a Mars probe through recalculation from metric to inch(or otherwise, can't remember))
-cheaper production through gaining more producers of standart parts, also then they are closer (EU)
-better measurement system for tiny sizes (0,5625" on a digital calliper = 9/16" on an analog one(which I prefer by inch) [14,2875mm in metric] which also reduces calculation errors
-improves the possibility of slight repairs on the market( you don't have to order inch parts from far away when you are in a metric country = selling point)

Do you need more?

Question: should they not concentrate their efforts on NOT profiting? Just be in the business of hiring people??



Sent from my SCH-R910 using Tapatalk 2

Doc, I have been a shareholder of a medium size business in the past and believe me, there's no way you can't profit. It's all down to decide whether you should make an effort yourself in a time of crisis and earn a bit less for the common good. Many are faced with this choice, but very few say yes to it.

Even worse, think about all those darn bonus schemes that private companies do: I mean, no matter how good you are, do you really think it's sane and ethically correct to concentrate big bonuses on a handful of people? I mean, are you really worth all that money?

Calculation errors: they're done in inches, cm or cubits, it doesn't matter what unit you use if you're a poor mathematician.

Cheaper production: I'm sure you've heard of a place called USA and their massive industrial production (which is also convenient to buy cos we kick ass at exchange rate atm)

Precision measurement is called micrometric for a reason.. they're already done in mm and subunits.

Same as above re. USA.

Your points are not valid I'm afraid (hey look at me defending the imperial system! Where are all the "Stern is anti-British" whiners?! ;) )

What I meant is, that it would reduce the calculation errors by using the same system ( if it's imperial or metric doesn't matter at that point.)

But what you also have to pay is transportation. And it's cheaper to by from close than from far away when you have rising fuel costs. And even the US produce or let produce more and more in China.

I learned something new to me, thanks.

In aircraft production and flying procedures they will keep the imperial system as a standart, because most of them are build in imperial.
And I never said that you have to change all to metric.

But global standard is International System of Units which bases on metric.

just because it sounds bigger in cm....:)

I used to work for Airbus. Bolts and hole sizes are Imperial but skin thickness and other dimensions are Metric.

Aye, its "En Vogue" these days isn't it, strike a pose theres nothing to it. :)

Tsk Tsk, those EVIL nasty Brits....Who in fact HEROICALLY SACRIFICED EVERYTHING so that the World could be free. Yes, everything...Empire and all. Bankrupt, (not that money matters, we were making a Point) ;)

If any one wants to understand what we are are all about, then listen to this beautiful rendition of the Poem "Ulysses" by Alfred Lord Tennyson.

Obstinate, Defiant, Bullish and English by the Grace of God. :grin:

I am become a Name.

A name of which I am Eternally Proud.

Get over it.

*Hehehe*

Gaffer, I thank thee.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqagmU4Fais

:confused:

Well Airbus used imperial fasteners and holes and metric measuring for aircraft panels for instance. The two metrics can live together, I don't really see how this can be an issue, again you need competent engineers..

I think you answered yourself there. Transportation costs are a non-issue when you buy in bulk.

Again, there are countless examples of effective co-existence between metric and imperial: the Concorde is another good example me thinks.

If anything sticking to imperial could guarantee the safeguard of engineering origins.

Nessun Dorma, Stern. Gan have a lie doon.

He admitted that he likes Black Pudding, though.

Why so much hate? Why are you persecuting us, Alessandro? (LOL!)

OMFG, its.....an Italian. He's a Nazi one day, yet he changes his mind, mid way? (Circa WWII) At least have the Courage of your Convictions and make yer mind up, ffs. :confused:

Stern is a Lone Wulf. He wears Lufftwaffle watches, pretending to be a Lufftlwaffle Teuton Knight, in his Lufftwaffle fantasy world.

Long may it continue. Long may we Lulz.

:grin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k08yxu57NA

He admitted that he likes Black Pudding, though.

Why so much hate? Why are you persecuting us, Alessandro? (LOL!)

OMFG, its.....an Italian. He's a Nazi one day, yet he changes his mind, mid way? (Circa WWII) At least have the Courage of your Convictions and make yer mind up, ffs. :confused:

Stern is a Lone Wulf. He wears Lufftwaffle watches, pretending to be a Lufftlwaffle Teuton Knight, in his Lufftwaffle fantasy world.

Long may it continue. Long may we Lulz.

:grin:

you and your clique have some serious self-acceptance issues I'm afraid.

What can I say? I'm sorry if I'm better than you (as you probably know, since you love stalking me), but can I be blamed for it? :rolleyes: ;)

Get over yourself buddy, and stop picking any occasion to make personal attacks (which are forbidden by the forum rules, remember?), you and your friends are starting to turn from sad to creepy :?

P.S.
What is your post supposed to mean exactly anyway?!

Now heres a thread worth pushing F5 on...

Orville have you been drinking again you loony?

lol nationalism on the internet??

imo the world is really divided between the ones that controll and have power/money , and the "mortals" . hate them not some random guy on te interten for instuling "national pride" wtf

No, It is your very intention to "provoke". That is what you do.

A) Successful Troll was Successful

B)See above

C) What of it?

He thinks that Hitler escaping to Brazil was a historical possibility. "Heed thi' baal"

:confused:

I think he's got you sussed out perfectly Stern.

Arthur, you should be manning tae guns, And yes......There shall be No Compromise. No Surrender.

ENGLAND EXPECTS THAT EVERY MAN WILL DO HIS DUTY.

Amen.

:D

WHAT?! How did I provoke anyone here now?! I was actually defending the imperial system and this racist bully steps in and gets on a personal attack on me AGAIN (because there's history with Mr Orville,who apparently confuses me with someone Italian that might have done something to him,or his girlfriend..) because he doesn't like it when someone has an opinion on the UK that might differ fro his!

Well boo-effing-hooo,you're not thinking you live in a perfect country do you mister? Or it burns when someone who's not British says something you don't like? Is complaining not allowed if youre a foreigner? You like my tax money to go in your unemployment check though,dont u sunshine?
This is racism 101,and you should be kicked out of this place for good,because it's people like you that ruin this community.

Orville please do carry on with this,show your true nature,it will do you only good :rolleyes:

I knew you would give me this. So why don't you send me half your money for my common good?

You can give more away. You don't need an intermediary to be between us. You and them that "common good". Just send in an extra 20% of your revenue to your taxing authority.

You can lead on this topic.

Do!

Don't talk!

DO IT!.

Send in 20% more I am sure they will use it.


Maintain it. Keep doing it. Not a one off thing. Do it - prove it and be proud you've done it. Start an organization that leads by example. It will catch on. It will gain momentum and other bleeding hearts will join and soon the entire world that don't share will be shamed into hiding. Do not state in here that you done it take it global.

I am behind you all the way on this.

oh but I did, that's why I'm not a stakeholder anymore. When I was still benefiting from this I could afford to give some away, and I gave part of the profit to two local charities, one for a Down syndrome holiday centre and another for a social recovery programme. My business partners thought I was crazy, truth is that I didn't need all that money to live a happy life.

I am employed by a big organisation now, and even if the salary is not what it used to be, I still take my time and volunteer in a local charity, if anything you get to meet so many interesting people!

The self reflective word that you are looking for is actually "GRASS"

Wouldn't lower meself to that level. Very sad.:sad:

..wow, you're still here.

I:cool:B:cool:T:cool:L
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx...1xxfo1_400.gif

Lol, so true!

I used to not understand the reasons for using the Imperial Metric System, until someone explained me that indeed, it was more natural for the human scale than the somewhat artificial and difficult to understand concept of the meter.

That's why things like doors, have whole numbers if measured in feets, instead of meters for example.


And about fractionay units, daily we use to divide things in two, three, four parts... a foot is 12 inches, half a foot is 6 inches, a third is 4 inches and a quarter is 3 inches. Half a metre is 50 centimetres, a third is 33.3333333333 cms and a quarter is 25 centimetres....

And about the base 10 thing, we have the time (1 hour = 60 minutes each, 1 minute 60 seconds ) and no one seems to have a problem with that.

So pick your poison...

Metric TIME!

10 Hours to a day. 10 Mins to an hour. 10 seconds to a min...

Of course they wont be the seconds we know now. ;) One second would actually be 2.4 minutes!

Imagine when someone says just give me a second and they take allot longer, when they say give me a second under the new Metric time they would be right if they were with you with 2mins!

And patches 4.8 weeks be sure :D

I don't know how you call inches in Spanish, but in Italian is "pollice" (thumb), because one inch is indeed the average width of a male thumb. That's the beauty of the imperial system, it's based on body proportions :)

We call it pulgadas, that comes from "pulgar" which is the word for "thumb"

I think we also tried to use another measures based in body proportions, but no agreement was reached on what was "average" LOL

HAHAHAHA!!! :mrgreen:

It is indeed based on body maths. 1 yard is the distance from your finger tip of an arm streched out to one side to the tip of your nose.

Lol, Orville m8. I've just given up ten minutes* of this precious bank holiday weekend to re-read this thread and I'm sorry but I fail to see any provocation in what Mr. Stern has had to say. In fact I rather agree with everything he's said here.
When all that brown ale has passed through your system and you've ceased being Biffa Bacon perhaps you should re-read it too.

*ten minutes out of the couple of hours I had allocated to enjoying CoD with the new wunda-patch. Sigh.............................................. ..............

it's not working for you then? I'm toying with the idea of reinstalling CoD now, but I also got scared by some of the screenshots that came out :shock:

Back to topic:
In 100 years a blatherer like Nigel Farage will be forgotten, but Winston will be remembered in a 1000 years.
Politics aside do you really think this guy fits the shoes of Winston Churchill?
I highly doubt that Farage could ever write something like "A History of the English-Speaking Peoples" or "Marlborough. His Life and Times"
You call Farage a formidable speaker? C'mon you gotta be kidding, you should listen to a speech of Winston Churchill

If you haven't got CoD installed at the moment I don't think it's worth the effort in order to be disappointed by this Alpha patch. Not that much of a problem as RoF and squad coop's in IL2 are still keeping me amused but my first thought after trying out what is supposed to represent months of re-writing was "It's gonna end up like Microsoft combat flight simulator 3!":confused:

Thanks Herr Otto for posting someting on-topic. :) I just wonder if you have any knowledge of Mr. Farage other than the short clip I posted?

Well i only know his (not all of course) speeches made in the EU Parliament and it's quite almost the same: "I'm against it, the bad EU, the bad this and the bad that.The Germans dominate the EU, the Germans here, the Germans there"
Actually quite a bore imho.
It is always easy to be against something, specially when you know you never have to show your voters how you would do it better as Prime Minister. :rolleyes:

Strong words softley spoken Otto Bongo...

Ooops, sorry Baron back on topic;
As a Brit I would say Nigel Farage is an engaging and rather likeable man with an excellent public speaking style who's views do represent a fair proportion of British public opinion at the moment and it's quite likely his political party - UKIP will get the biggest share of the vote at the next elections to the European parliament.
Kongo Otto has put his finger on part of Mr. Farages success; It's always easier to knock things down rather than build things up. He's also very lucky to have survived a light aircraft accident during our last general election. I expect you can Wiki him.

Personally I disagree with about 95% of the things he has to say and whilst I accept his views and opinions as sincere and honourable I suspect, in a previous time, many of the members of his party would have been only too happy to have been handing out the towels at Auschwitz.

The question for me is, why is the UKIP so successfull in elections for the EU-Parliament and so unsuccessfull in elections for the House of Commons.
In Germany we see the EU-Parliament as an retirement home for quite unsuccessfull, recalcitrants or older Politicians. Not important enough to send someone important, so to say.
There is a say in Germany "Hast du einen Opa schick ihn nach Europa" which means "Do you have a Grandpa send him to Europes Parliament"

So in imho it would make more sense to have a stronghold in the House of commons rather then in the EU-Blatherer Shop.
What i also don't understand is this, when there is such an resentment against Germany and or the EU, why doesn't the UK leave the EU?
Nobody is forced to stay when he feels so highly uncomfortable.

And not to be misunderstood, i have nothing against beeing against the EU. I'm also against the EU, because i can't see the reason why the taxmoney of the german worker is wasted for the laziness, corruption and stupidity of other states.
I relly couldn't care less about Greece, Spain or Italy!
Their problems are homemade and there is no reason that the German worker has to eat the soup those jerks cooked!
But when you want to do something against the EU, you have to do it at your National Parliament and not in the EU-Parliament which is a toothless tiger.

Maybe i'm a bit harsh in my judgement but i'm a bavarian and i'm not really a fan of beeing part of Germany and its role in the EU to say at least.
IMHO Bavaria should gain independence again like it was until 1918 and restore monarchy and of course leave the German State immediately.

...yeah, let's go back to the 15th century, shall we? ;)

I love Bavaria, and as much as I think it's a prolific and active part of Germany, I doubt it would benefit from independence.

If there's one country that surely benefited from the Euro, that's Germany! Your politicians tell you that your tax money is needed to fix the other countries, but the truth is that it's an easier excuse for them than having to explain what the hell they actually do with all your tax money.

Have a look at this article for example.

UKIP is only successful in the European parliament elections as they are the only national elections in the UK that are held under the system of proportional representation. You know that system well Kongo-Otto. It gave you Hans- Dietrich Genscher for most of the latter part of the twentieth century.

Elections to our parliament, where the real power lies, take place under the first-past-the-post system, like in the US. We tend to send our failed, unwanted and unloved politicians off to become EU commissioners.

I don't think the British people as a whole have any resentment against modern Germany or Germans. In fact I'd say we have quite a lot of respect as we're fairly aware that the EU experiment has been paid for in large part by Germany.
I'm afraid our national press is another story.
Also, our politicians have never really been honest and up front to the British people about what the EU is about. We have always been told it is merely an economic area whilst the rest of europe has accepted that it's foundations were always political as well as economic.

UKIP is the chicken of this dis-honesty coming home to roost.

Well you prove that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
So its good for the UK when they have a monarchy and of course it's a fall back to the 15th century when Bavaria should have a monarchy.
Ah ok must be some Italian kind of logics.

The only one who clearly would not benefit from an bavarian independence is Germany, maybe you should take a look who in germany has the economic power in Germany.

Stern really more and more i think you are a mere troll.

Well over here the press and many people i know think that some British politicians are against the EU because they don't want to speak up open and clearly against Germany. Some German newspapers even go so far so say that British EU resentment is always not against the EU but Anti german.

Thank you for the clarification.

dude, it was just a way of saying "let's go back in time", I wasn't referring to the century specifically.. and be careful about going down the race path again, cos I think we've recently seen what happens ;)
..I'm not sure this conversation can carry on, you sound like a Bayern Partei advocate, and like many of your mates all over the world, you normally blame your issues on others.

Are you one of those that believes that because you have BMW, Audi, Siemens and Allianz based there then you're the one that works for the wealth of the whole country? :rolleyes:
No, I have developed a gravitational field over the years that pulls fools :rolleyes:

This disproves the saying that opposites attract.

All for Bavaria leaving. But please pay pack all that money you got over decades from NRW until the early 90ies, that money enabling Bavaria to develop from a backwater agrarian country just like Greece to modern northern european standarts. With interests.

And please start reading proper newspapers. Then again, pretty all of them these days are Bild Zeitung material, so nevermeind.

Would Herr Otto's independent Bavaria have its own currency? :twisted:

..and here's the next one.. boy I should really have this checked, apparently the pull is irresistible.. :rolleyes:

Sure! But i'm not sure which whe choose, Beer or weisswurst. ;)

We must be alike then. What a thought to go to sleep on.

Actually you prove again that you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

Actually i'm a CSU member. You can wiki it.

so you're a conservative Christian democratic, yet you advocate the separation of Bavaria from Germany... I'm confused, am I missing something? :confused:

Hardly. Goodnight Hood.

What has the one to do with the other? I don't quite understand.
But im tired now and i have to get some sleep.

And appologies for my sometimes harsh words, i'm sometimes a bit short tempered.

well u said u r a member of the CSU and would like Bavaria to be independent, is this right? I would have expected you to be part of a separatist group more than a centralising one, that's it.

yeah I figured as much ;) no worries, apologies accepted, I often think that hot tempers and "lost in translation" moments get in the way of an otherwise interesting conversation :)

Well the CSU covers many Groups of Bavarians including Royalists like me, i know there is no chance for beeing independent but outside the big cities at the countryside there is still the one or the other like me.

The Kingdom of Bavaria was from 1871 - 1918 a part of the German Reich, that's true but it was more or less independent, it had its own laws, its own Army. The only thing the German Reich had authority over Bavaria was the Money (Reichsmark) and foreign Politics. The Army was independent except in war, then the Bavarian Army was under the High Command of the German Reich.
It had an modern constitution (for the times standards the most modern of all German states)with a two chambered Parliament (actually it was a copy of the british parliament consisting of a House of Lords and a House of Commons.
In 1912 Bavaria was at the edge of an constitutional monarchy all this was stopped with the beginning of the great war.

With the election results in France a done deal and now this what do you see as the future if the common currency now?

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/afraid-exul...203620995.html

Well if you ask me, i would say switch back to the Deutsch Mark as soon as possible, or kick out Greece from the Euro and let them have their Drachma again and of course no more bail outs for Greece or any other State!
There is absolutely no explanation for why the hard working German worker should pay the bills for other governments who lied, frauded and cheated since they came to the euro zone.

There is a fairly simple explanation, the German economy relies on the Euro and would lose a lot of trade without it. Therefore, the German economy relies on the Euro being strong which, in turn, means bailing Greece out because the Euro is partially dependant on the Greek economy. I agree that perhaps Greece shouldn't have been let into the Euro, but the amount of money Germany puts in to the bailouts is because the German economy is the most reliant, and very strongly reliant, on the Euro because it is very reliant on a high amount of exports within the Eurozone and the EU . No Euro = Less people buying German goods due to exchange rates and comission = less money for German businesses = less jobs in Germany = less economic growth, or even economic contraction.

Contrary to popular belief (and general appearance), politicians aren't stupid and wouldn't do something as big as the bailouts unless it was in their country's interests to do it.

lol.

I hate to sound like Raaid but am I the only one who can see the blindingly obvious ?

Within the eurozone theres only one country that is out of step economically with the rest.

Its Germany. ( ok and perhaps Netherlands and Belgium too).

What countries like Greece and Spain urgently need is a rapid depreciation of currency, this is at the moment impossible within the Euro.

Even with recent falls on the currency markets the Euro (which is defacto the new D/Mark) is underpinned by the fundamental strength of the German economy.

With all the eurozone locked into the same currency, this artificially bolsters the German economy even more,and perpetuates over a longer time scale the fundamental inequalities within the eurozone economies.

Entering the Euro wasnt an economic decision it was political, commited by politicians on idealogical grounds. well now the political consiquences are apparent for all to see.

Some hard choices are going to have to be made very soon, these choices will have long term effects for us all. Do you expect your politicians to make the correct decisions ?

Choice. As things are. Continue to prop up failing economies with billions in money, force these failing nations to suffer decades of austerity job losses and poverty and face the fact that even with "loans" and assistance eventually if these economies dont grow they will be unable to repay any assistance. If this happens that nation will be forced to default and leave the euro with catastrophic consiquences and possible dominoe effect to other weak euro currencies.

Choice. Planned expulsion of weak euro currencies from the euro into either there own currencies or even a "second division" Euro 2. So that these nations can have the "short sharp shock" as they reallign there economies thus avoiding decades of poverty and stagnation. A weaker currency would boost exports and although imports would cost more a period of inflation falling currencies and growth would probably have these nations back on track within a decade. There is an added advantage, most of these nations are in the sunny south of Europe. think of the cheap holidays !

Choice. Germany leaves the Euro ! If Germany went back to the DMark The Euro would fall on currency markets giving all the remaining Eurozone members an opportunity to go for growth, on the otherhand the DMark would rise harming German exports (unless the have productivity gains) and the market if given free reign would after a period reallign the exchange rates to realistic levels.

Choice Force ALL non Euro European countries into the Euro (including the Swiss), These nations either have large economies or financially strong balance sheets, they being within the eurozone would undoubtedly strengthen the euro.


The German taxpayer has been the greatest contributor to the european project for decades now. Until the euro came into force Germanys contributions had no tangible benefit for Germany except for a few subsidies that came back into Germany. However the Euro has aided the German economy massivly since its introduction. Its no surprise that the two largest exporting nations have artificially low exchange rates. If you doubt the truth of this statement just look at the chinese Govts insistance on not letting there currency float on the markets, pegging it artificially low.

Personally my choice for future prosperity for europe would be for Germany (plus anyone who wished to join the new dmark ) to leave the Euro, enabling the Euro to have massive falls.

The political ramifications are perhaps even more alarming and each seperate course has its own implications, and some as is the nature of these things totally unforseeable


As for the bigger picture what we are seeing is the effects of globalisation, the reconverence of the global economy and the economic future being reshaped in our lifetimes.

We live in interesting times.

Ehhh, with Germany leaving the Euro, there are more countries in the Euro than just Germany, Greece and Spain. For example, Finland, France, Estonia, Belgium.... none of those are having serious economic problems right now in a similar way to Greece or Spain and they wouldn't want to see a devaluation of the Euro either.

As for the two-teir Euro, that a possability, but it's more likely that the Euro would fall apart than that happening.

Yes thanks for the Euro, i always wonder how we did survive before the Euro.
In the years before the Euro we had the Deutsche Mark which the German economy relied on and i think its not exaggerated to say that the German Economy did a bloody good job without the Euro.

The German economy survived two world wars, the great depression and a few other minor incident in history.
Do you really think, we couldn't survive the End of the Euro?
Maybe in the world of some Analyst from some Rating agencies, but otherwise the major part of the word Analyst is surely not "yst" so to say.

So and this is my last post in this thread i don't want to have another Infraction mail by the Forum Gestapo and their willfull denunciators.

Gordon Brown and the Euro.
 

Is it true?

Gordon Brown refused to join the Euro in order to annoy the Prime Minister, Tony Blair?

Tony Blair is and was pro-European.

Maybe it was the only good decision of Gordon Brown's career?

(Euro has again fallen against the Pound)

When's the next patch out?

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Of course the German economy could survive the end of the Euro, but it would certainly suffer for it, and my point was that it is better for the German government to loan a few billions to Greece now that it will get back in time than to watch several billions go down the pan never to return if the Euro collapsed.

Also, it's worth remembering that the only reason the German economy is in the position it is now is because of heavy investment in post-war Germany to make it economically strong but also economically dependant first on the US, and then on the EU. Germany would not be in the position it is without the EU and is, to a large extent, still fairly dependant on it. That's not a bad thing by any means, the EU is also very dependent on Germany too as it is the biggest economy in Europe and essentially bankrolls a lot of what the EU does, but the relationship is mutually beneficial, so in that sense neither would be in a particularly strong position without the other.

We don't yet but troubles are brewing up ahead. Here in Finland the state are reducing the public funds by 5,5 billion euros IIRC this year so we can afford to pay off our debts. This at the same time as we are poring in money in to the big black fiscal hole that is Greece. This does not go well with the general public. We have a lot of issues here at home that will be a lot worse in the near future. Like in most EU countries, growth is low and maybe soon non-existant and unemployment is of course rising although the sitting government is doing all they can to make the numbers look good, i.e placing unemployed people in courses or work practice -which doesn't lead to anything for most- so that they won't be counted as unemployed in the statistics. They do the same thing in Sweden, where roughly every 4th young adult is unemployed, so probably even more. The card house that is the Euro is gonna fall but nobody's got the balls to blow the whistle.

At the same time, risk capitalists are sucking money out of partly public funded private schools and nursing homes to tax paradises. The government is reassuring people that selling out publicly owned things is good for the economy and produces jobs. That's weird because the last time I checked the owners of privately run nursing homes likes to see return on their investments and that means having as little staff as possible and investing as little as possible. Brings the recent "diaper scandal" in Sweden to mind where the staff of a private nursing home where told by their boss to cut down on the old peoples diapers to save a few bucks. Nice to come visit your grandmother/father that toiled for years without any comfy social security and see them all soiled in their own excrements, worthy end of the hard working generation right?!

Or privately run schools, handing out A's like there's no tomorrow to attract more students so they will receive more tax funding by the government, in Sweden the latest studies shows education is REGRESSING!! After about 15 years of privatization.

What will be left of our welfare in 20-25 years time? Nothing! I can tell you that with certain confidence. I'm ashamed knowing by the time my daughter is at my age she won't have the same possibilities and social security that I have. The markets, banks and risk capitalist have all gone out of control, the economy should be benefiting people not the other way around. Bring out the leashes!

I'm currently across the Baltic from you (southwards, Eestis) and work with quite a lot of Finns so I know the feeling, though I think it's the same all over. We have it to some extent back in the UK too, but obviously we're not as much of a welfare society as Finland or Sweden. Even so, it's nothing that a devaluation of the Euro would fix, which was my point, but with what you said, we can only hope for the best I suppose.

I think we're in for some interesting times over the next decade.

The Euro was a 'political' creation. Designed to 'unite' Europe.

But 'money' is not political. Money takes no prisoners.

And Money does not recognise the Geneva Convention.

Interesting times ahead. Reap what you sow.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

No, the EU and the Euro was designed to create the "greatest" bureaucracy the world have ever seen and to give Germany the power over Europe without armed forces. These so called liberals spawned all these ideas and now it's like Soviet Russia was with centralized power. Some paper-shifter in Brussels is deciding how our cucumbers here in Finland should be shaped (I'm kidding you not). It's gonna break up, say whatever you want and turmoil will follow and I know that it won't be pleasant to be a politician or a banker when that happens because that's where the blame will fall.

P.S With regards to the OT, no that is not a new Winston Churchill, that is a political troll that does have a few good points...that's it.

We must fight back in the bureaux of government, Addman. Not so long ago the Brussels mob tried to control the length and straightness of the bananas that we Britons could purchase in our stores and supermarkets.

Noting this, and preferring the magnificent curves of the Jamaican variety to the stubby digits presumably grown in the now defunct marijuana factories of Holland; our government spoke out in Europe and gained an exemption.

I'm not sure whether we sent N.Farage to insult the Belgian Prime minister or something - but we won.

Winston would simply have sent the Royal Navy to blockade the Belgian ports. ;)

B

This thread is fun, you never stop learning. I just realized that:

http://www.fatburningfurnace.com/ima...on%20facts.jpg = http://www.allworldfacts.com/wp-cont...ation_camp.jpg + http://geocurrents.info/wp-content/u...Gulag_map1.jpg

Wow! I should have just posted those 3 pictures instead of writing all that, really sums it up.:)

Nice choice. WWIII ~ 10 years later.

WWW3 will be about resources.
What threatens Europe are riots and civil wars - either way we go.

Imho splitting Eurozone into a northern- and southern Eurozone is the way to go.

Whereas WWII was fought over interior decorating.

lebensraum ... German term for constructing a nice living space with a pleasant aesthetic.

we're already fighting WW3 me thinks ;)

splitting the Eurozone? How do you mean split it? Different currencies? Different deals? What's the logic?

Simple, eurozone elite club and eurotrash class.