Open Gays in military - how has it worked out?
 

I'm not trying to start a political post... so don't go there.

Do you have experience or have knowledge of this?

There are countries that have open gays in military and I am wondering how has that worked out?

Are you gay and thinking of Joining? :-P

In the UK its "allowed" but the soldiers dont like it and drive them out from what I hear. However the British Army has under gone massive changes in discipline - the old ways are out.

This is however hear say as this is what I heard from my best mate who is leaving the army this year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol5Dfs7jqFI

Depends on function and position, armies are like huge companies, you sure can find use for them - most likely not in the combat units. ;)

There is a decent article on the subject in Wikipedia, with links to more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gays_in_the_military

As for " most likely not in the combat units", that is clearly untrue - back in the days when people were being dismissed from the military because of their sexual orientation, they included plenty from combat units. For a current example of a frontline gay British soldier, and on the consequences of his 'coming out' see here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-decision.html

I'm guessing DI's these days are very reluctant to order 'bends and thrusts'.

I'm thinking about morale for the most part.

When I was in military it wasn't even a consideration to allow them in.

I remember thinking... why is it I have such a problem with gays?

The I realized why. when they hit on me it was like they were saying, "you are like me", which I found very objectionable.

I am curious to know how it is working in other countries that allow gays in the military.

The reason I ask is because you cannot really get any "REAL" information about the topic.

It would be interesting to know what the military men and women are dealing with, and their perspective on it.

Afterall, all the bureucrats and politicians know what is best for everyone.

The media is clammed up tight, the politicians don't talk about it, and the Generals are all under gag orders.

There was one CPL I knew that was said to be bisexual. Mostly I was jealous that he was having twice as much fun as me.

In the Army they station them at Fort Dix in New Jersey.

I served in the RN FAA for a few years. I actually went through basic training with a 'gay'. He eventually got the boot for not being up to scratch with his kit and attitude, but before he left he left a letter on another recruit's bed declaring his feelings. He wasn't forced out because he was gay though, he really was a total a**ehole.

On a similar subject, my father finished his RAF career off at a training establishment in the midlands where there were two serving 'out' transexuals. They even went as far as wearing womens uniform and went by their 'female' names.

I'm not against gays being gays, and I understand that some people are born with the wrong bits on the outside. Thing is, if they are that mixed up mentally, should and could they be relied on in high stress situations like say, a war, that the military tend to get involved in?

EDIT: I am talking about transexuals in the last part of my post, just to make it clear.

Someone's sexual orientation should have nothing to do with their service or ability to serve, military or otherwise.

I'm heterosexual. There are plenty of women where I work. I do not feel compelled to act inappropriately with them.

If someone can behave professionally at work, there's no workplace that should be denied to them. That's really all there is to it.

People write about lgbt issues and the military like it's 'inevitable' that if a gay person is in the military, they WILL try to have a relationship with another co-worker.

If someone can't keep it in their pants, whatever 'it' is, they should be held accountable...and unfortunately, that probably means that more HETEROsexual men would be kicked out of the military than gay people.

Lol lots and lots nearmiss!! Did they try and hit on you often? Come on m8, post a picture of yourself so we can judge whether you're "Gay Bait."


@ JG27/Farber; that's NOT a Monty Python video at all. That's P Company at Aldershot practising for their "Coming out" parade.:grin:

My last 6 months of life in the United States Marines was good. I was proud to know that a victory had been won for American's who previously had to hide behind a mask to serve their country.

I knew of a few that came out after the repeal, and believe it it not, most of them were women. I know that discipline in the US armed forces is above all and that no one will get away with trying to drive gay and lesbian kids out of the service or into suicide.

One of the questions I asked at my old CO's brief was "Have other countries adopted a similar policy, and if so have they faced similar problems as servicemen here expect?"

They said that serving in Afghanistan with the Dutch blew their minds with the way everything was co-ed. They said that males and females shared all facilities. They said they never saw a break up in problems amongst the Brits, or French.

That brought me faith and pride.

Well as one who spent 11 years in the military (4 RA, 5 AR, 2 ANG) and during that time worked with guys who were gay..

I would prefer a gay guy over a female on the battle field!

Now before anyone goes off the deep end..

I am not saying there are NO WOMEN out there that can pull their weight, all I am saying is that MOST of the women in the armed forces are NOT pulling their weight!

The US gov has been toying with our military in more ways than one, every social experience one can think of has been tried there. And for the most part it has not been good!

So Ill end with this

There are some women out there that are a mans equal.. So let them join!

Now if the politicians belied that too

Than they would not force the military to have two physical test (PT) standards, one for male and one for female!

My only fear is if the politician ever did address that, they would not raise the standard for the women up to the mens standard, but lower the mens standard down to the womens standard.. Than we would be in a real world of hurt IMHO!

"The I realized why. when they hit on me it was like they were saying, "you are like me", which I found very objectionable."

My self; I found it flattering that I'm a good looking enough guy, for a Gay to even hit on me. I'm secure enough to know how to say thanks for the ego boost but I'm straight.
If your not secure with your self and know how to control your self esteem, or ego then you have a problem with your self.

Gays have been in the military since the dawn of war.

You guys are talking about me...

Don't waste your time on me.

I asked what I thought was a sensible question. Some have responded to it and others probably don't know anything about the topic and are just juicing the thread.

I see where Mastiff is coming from but I also see where nearmiss is comming from. What grinds my gears about Homosexuals is that within the first five minutes of a convasation they must tell you they are gay. Or they explain something that has just happened to them and then say, "We'll he/she only did that casue Im gay..." I dont go ramming my Hetrosexuality down everyones throat, so why is it ok for them to do it? I dont tell people upon meeting them what a massive hetro I am... That would be wierd. However its a gays right to do this? If anyone wants to chase sausage - go for it, more clunge for me! :-P

It usually only takes 30 sec to tell they are fags.
Some of the "males" are harder to "spot" though.

Now thats gay!!! ;)

Hahah, Ace I like what you did there. Now that you mention it... Upon meeting women in the past Ive rammed my Hetrosexually down their throats ant they didnt really mind... Actually maybe thats different.


Indeed Swiss. However they can spot a hetro just the same and still insist on telling you they like sausage...

and why do you think the Spartan state was in decline;) they have always been around...just recent history has made a big deal out it.

Thank god there are still such insufferable rednecks around. How else would the rest of us know how not to behave.

Look out! Woofta! :-P

do they segregate the homosexual service members from the hetrosexual ones...the reason i ask this is putting men who are attracted to other men is like putting men who are attracted to women in the womens quarters....

having men who are attracted to men shower with other men is akin to me as a hetrosexual male showering with females...

sure if i was attracted to men, the best thing for me to do was to join the military where i would live with other men and shower with other men ect...


if yo uwere a woman would you tolerate a stranger who is attracted to women live with you and shower with you???

so why should men tolerate this from those who are attracted to men?

Funny part is Z thinks he just zinged me

When in fact I ware the title redneck like a badge of honor!

PS I think he meant insufferable.. but don't tell him he may take it wrong being corrected by a redneck! ;)

are you cross darling?

You would think this is logical and you would be right... However in todays modern world you'd be labelled a homophobic... This however is silly. As it means because you have applied logic and reason that you are in fact afraid of Homosexuals... Its a brave new socialist world we live in. :confused:

Maybe I should rephrase

Are there MORALE issues between straight and gay in military that seem beyond solution in your countrys' military?



Examples of MORALE

1. The team is playing well and their morale is high.
2. The President's speech boosted the morale of the troops.

From your experience..or what you have learned from experienced persons.

From your experience or what you know about Open Gays in military, would you volunteer for military under present world conditions. That is, if you were young enough and eligible for service.

If it was me, I would eat beans every day, every meal. That should keep those ones away. On the flip side, scantily clothed lesbians doing the nasty, definite morale booster in my book.

Edit:
I need to make a modification. The lesbians must be "hot" to me. Fat smelly lesbians with facial mustache, not acceptable.

The sexual orientation of those I'd be serving alongside would be entirely irrelevant to such a decision.

Just bemused by the dimwittedness of the majority here. Though it is heartwarming to know that you lot really do live, in your tiny little heads, in a time gone by and will become extinct like any other superfluous species.

So what are you exactly afraid of? By pure statistics you already have showered with a gay person in your life and did he hurt you in any measurable way? Guess not.

Are you afraid that you would get raped by that sex crazed gay animal or what? By that you would, btw, also say that all men are sex crazed animals who would rape any woman if they would shower with her. Interesting standpoint I have to admit. Complete bollocks, yet still interesting.

Maybe you lot should put your brains into running order before commenting, cause right now, you lot are talking out of your arses.

The most telling point here is the complete failure of the "oh no, we can't trust them in the showers" brigade to actually come up with any evidence - whereas the facts speak for themselves: there have always been homosexuals serving in the military, and it has never been a problem in itself. The only difficulties have been caused by the ignorance and bigotry of others.

Meanwhile, a hypothetical question. Should Alan Turing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing) have been trusted with military secrets? After all, he was as gay as they come (or at least, as gay as he could get away with, and a little too gay for his own good eventually), and was working at Bletchley Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bletchley_Park). What a risk to security! ;)

+1

Wow. I feel like I've just stepped through a time machine and ended up in 1975.

OK so we didn't have the internet back then but it seems the ignorance of the time lives on.

Does the fact that sometimes gays work in offices alongside 'normal' heterosexual colleagues have any influence on company morale?

Do gays working in schools/ hospitals/ shops/ morgues/ police stations/sports centres/ etc. etc. have any bearing on the morale of their co-workers?

How did I guess who all the turd herders would be. I have no problem with you gays, knock yourselfs out. The gays in the military of the past weren't so much a problem because they didn't carry a freaking sign. And yes it can be a problem try getting drunk like Marines with one and see if it doesn't try and make a move when your passed out.

Are you kidding me it took you that long to figure out that there are female Marines that are gay. Females don't belong in the Corps. They belong in the Navy or Airforce and maybe the Army. And Marines aren't double dutching

Huh....... Me thinks you have that backwards since gays are not likely to reproduce like the rest of us.................. dimwitt

You did miss biology class quite often, did you not? Gays can reproduce themselves exactly the way you do, just not with a relationship to the woman/man who carried the child to term or provided the sperm.

Just can tell you my experience:

I had one gay-guy during my service in the swiss military music. It worked out fine, altough he never had an "official" coming-out, many (including the commander) knew and respected him (he was one of the best friends I had during that time btw.).

As the swiss military-music is a special buch with many students and other open-minded people, I would say that this is an exception. I don´t know how it would have worked out at the "front-line", but i am almost shure he would have had more problems in another function...

"Zorin

Just bemused by the dimwittedness of the majority here. Though it is heartwarming to know that you lot really do live, in your tiny little heads, in a time gone by and will become extinct like any other superfluous species."

Big up Zorin. Agree with you 100%

Suprised what a closed minded people here. Nevertheless good conversation to have.

So.. the answer is yes.. you are cross

Seek psychiatric help.

it does hurt moral. its part of pc culture. i once had to work with a really fat liberal lesbian that had a mustache. of course, I wanted to break out laughing every time I saw her, but that would have cost me my job. i never got used to that. i could never get used to that. pc facist can't brainwash me. my genes won't let it happen.

edit
I guess I should elaborate. It wasn't just the mustache that I found annoying about her. It was the daily display of self-importance. "I am a fat lesbian with a mustache, I am special". "I am going to marry my girlfriend, I am still special." "Hi, you have to meet my girlfriend. because I'm special." "My girlfriend and I are getting married. We are so special". "My girlfriend and I are going to have a baby from sperm donor, who just happens to be gay. We are all very special." "If you do not think we are special, I will go to HR and complain."

Did you miss english class quite often, did you not? I said not likely to reproduce. I never said they couldn't, I think gay woman hate being woman therefore would hate being a child bearing mother. There are some I'm sure but I doubt enough to keep the species going........

Get a rectal exam.

Moronic...

How do idiots like this manage to live their lives without even noticing that not everyone opposed to homophobic bigotry is necessarily gay? Though I suspect, given Hunden's obsession with anal sex, we may possibly have a prime example of projection here - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection: "Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, usually to other people. Thus, projection involves imagining or projecting the belief that others originate those feelings".

Go away turd herder, we know what side of the knobing your on.

Hunden, go **** yourself. We know you want to...

Guys.. guys.. guys

You know neither one of you are doing either side of the argument any good!

It is a simple question, gives us your view on it, and please leave the sword fighting out of it.. wait.. that didn't come out right. ;)

It can hurt moral.. but it is not a given that it will. It all depends on the gay guy/gal in question

As with any 'group' there are militant aspects.. It is these types that I take issue with! I have worked with guys and gals that are gay.. I have been lucky that none of them were of the militant type! Just everyday people doing their jobs.

The PC culture parts I take issue with is the brain washing aspects.. The militant aspects of the gay movement that force the Adam and Steve options on everyone is what pisses off most people. I no more what to hear about Adam and Steve in public school than Adam and Eve!

So I hear ya Blaster, I have met the types you described (militant lezbos) but I have been lucky enough to not have to work with them for extended periods.

+1 Do want you want... Just dont make those that dont like it or are not interested suffer it...

I am a dimwit because i don't care if there are gays in the military closeted or out.....:rolleyes:

Roflamo!

its remarcable that the guys who attack me the most have some problems with the homosexuals

In what sense? Feel free to explain in detail.

Oh lord

http://bucultureshock.com/wp-content...orms_ahead.jpg

:rolleyes:

It's all in the mind. See "Political Orientations Are Correlated with Brain Structure in Young Adults" http://download.cell.com/current-bio...ermediate=true

Fortunately, there is strong evidence that right-wing thought patterns can be cured through appropriate mental exercise: it need not be a lifetime affliction. ;)

Homosexuals might get upset if you say things like that.

Surly the militant ones will!

I dare say some might. Mostly right-wing ones. ;)

Fixxed that for ya! ;)

Er, how? I point out that being right-wing can be cured. Why should left-wing homosexuals have a problem with it? :-P

It sounds like you feel your lesbian colleague should have been banned from your workplace because ... of what exactly?

Surely you have also worked with heterosexuals that make you laugh/cringe/angry?
Should they have also been banned from your workplace because you didn't get on?

ps. I'm not homosexual; I have five kids, but I'm no bigot either.

I grew up during communism in Romania. I did the army right after the communism went down and there weren't any gays that i knew in he army where i served. At least we didn't know about it, as most likely they were afraid to even try anything. The whole society was very hompophobic back then. Anyone trying a move on another guy in the army, would have most likely end up beat up by the whole platoon.
My first contact with the "modern society":lol: was when working on cruise ships. Oh what a shock.:lol: That was my "crash course" on "Modern society with all it's feedoms".
There were lots of gay of all kinds on the ships. Working and living with homosexuals was at first shocking, then funny and with time it became just normal. Later I even shared a cabin with a gay guy for a few weeks. It didn't bother me at all. We knew and respected eachothers sexual orientations and it didn't bother me at all.
There was a lot of fun working with some of the more flamboyant gay guys. You come with a big tray of food for your customers from the kitchen and you see this crazy little guy in front of you, pretend he droped a dish on the floor and instantly bends over "trying to pick it up" right in fron't of you knowing you have the arms bussy. :lol:
It was all in the name of fun of course. Most people were very cool and with time it all worked out just fine. If a gay guy is hitting on you, it's enough to tell them you are interested in fish not cheese.:lol:
Some did try very hard to look and be "different".

Louis C.K. has a funy one about that.
I don't dare posting it tho.:mrgreen:

story time?

Ok my turn.. Was back in 2000.. I was working on the mobile tactical high energy laser (MTHEL) project out a HELSTF.. Which is about 60 miles in the middle of no where! We had a small group of engineers, and after a few years we were pretty tight group. That is to say the jokes got pretty raw sometimes! Good fun.. Well one day our project lead (boss) pulled us into a room and had this funny look on his face.. He started in saying.. Ah, guys, I think we need to tone it down a bit. Than he went on to say that we are getting a new guy in next week, some analysis guy to help out with the work load. At that point, I was just joking, but said.. 'what is he gay?'.. Well than the boss really started to squirm around.. At that point we all knew he knew but could not say. So the new guy showed up, he was fine, no problem fit right in. Heck he could dish out the jokes as well as take em!

But the one that sticks out in my memory the most.. See we where in the middle of no where, you had to bring your lunch everyday because there was no where to eat from 60 miles. So we had to pass the time alot waiting on stuff.. So we all started playing hackie sack.. Well one day we were in the circle playing.. And I had just bought these funcky slipper looking sprts shoes from Walmart. I thought they would be great, didnt have any laces to lace up, just pull em on and go. Well.. truth be told them shoes were 'ghay' looking.. And one of the guys in the hackie sack circle (not the gay one) looked at my shoes and said.. 'Jezz Grant them shoes are GAY!' at which point he rememberd the gay guys (wont name names) was stanging right next to him! At which point he turned to the gay guy and said.. 'Oh man, sorry, I didn't mean it li' And before he could finish the gay guy looked at him and said 'Don't worrie, I wouldnt even wear them gay shoes!'

See.. now if all gay guys were like that.. There would be no problems! It is the militant wear it on thier sleeve everyone notice me and accept me or else gays I have issues with.. Heck gay or not I have issues with any militant group that wears it on thier sleeve everyone notice me and accept me or else types

She was a fascist. She was out to get every straight, white, politically right, male in the department. At first, HR department catered to her every complaint. Me, my coworker friends, all got the standard sexual harrassment lecture from our managers at some point due to her "sensitivities". I would say it was an agenda. A chip on her shoulder. Only after about 2 years, HR finally got wise I guess and moved her out of the department, back in the far corner of the building. I guess they were afraid to fire her in fear of getting sued. That's what it's like in the real world buddy. Sorry if you think I'm a bigot. Don't really care. Everything I said up there is absolute fact. No embellishment. We also had a homo in the department. I got along with him fine. I don't know where he was politically and I didn't care. He didn't push the homo agenda either. Just a co-worker I got along with and a brain and a sense of humor. But I also knew he would probably fudge pack me if I was willing. You sense these things. So, I made sure to keep a distance, so he didn't get any funny ideas.

+1 Exactly!

So whats next reeducation camps? You libs are all the same. You claim to be open, tolerant and excepting of all others. Yet you are the biggest haters of all. You try to cure peoples opinions, thoughts and religious believes. I am tired your type. I'm sure you would be happy to see all that don't fit into your twisted mold be placed in internment camps. All I can say to your type is come and get some.

LMAO don't be so hard on yourself a little exercise goes a long way, cheer up:grin:

PFFFFFF!!!!! Next pint's on you!! :-P

Good thread nearmiss, you set two ideological oppinions to war and you banned my sig... Nice. :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBecM3CQVD8

why dont you openly say what you mean with that video

that caught my interest

Utterly clueless. Incapable of recognising the irony of his own statements, Hunden engages in further psychological projection, waves his imaginary Crusader's sword over his head, climbs on his imaginary mount (a flea-bitten donkey) and charges headlong into imaginary battle with the Heretics, Homosexuals, Liberals and Martian mind-controllers that lurk inside his atrophied brain.

P.S. I'm not gay. And neither am I a liberal. I am heterosexual, and a Marxist. :-P

P.P.S. ...and atheist. Not Martian though... :-P

Why dont you make sense? 100 topics of non sense... :cool:

ahhhh so it was you that flagged my signiture... :-P

well you seem to be accusing of devil worshipping with your video

thats what i understood from your subliminal

No. Though I did get asked to stop using this for an avatar on the Ubi forums:

http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/a...Driver1938.jpg

It is a Soviet medal for 'outstanding tractor drivers' - I awarded it to myself for my flying skills. ;)

Did you submit a structural MRI to the institute to verify this? Or is this coming out of your ass?:-P

So your a political extremist...

Is that Al Sharpton? because I don't think he is. I think he is a racist tho, of the worst kind. Uses his own people for his own gains.

With a sense of humour. Who'd have thought it was possible...? ;)

How long did you have to stand in the marxist options line to get that upgrade? And how many goats did it cost ya? ;)

Nope, a sense of humour comes free with the membership card. If someone tries to sell you Marxism, but can't make you laugh, they are faking it.

Read the original: The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Napoleon by K.M. himself: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx...maire/ch01.htm. The funniest shaggy-dog story ever written, with added dialectical materialism.

lol you guys are funny

I always get a good chuckle out of these commo-hippy-greeny versus fascist-neocon-biblebelter threads :D


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/239/5...2fb6e80f5a.jpg

Yup, not bad for a 'no politics please' thread...

You are correct... there have only been a few sensible responses to the topic. I don't know anymore than I did when I put this thread up.

No sense to infraction the off topic posters. I seriously doubt most of them paid much attention to the original post.

This thread is history.