MW3 Blamed for Norway Massacre?
 

Here we go again... :confused:

Experts in the video suggest Breivik was 'influenced' by his video game habit.

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/tec...420-1xas3.html

yep, playing too much CloD will have you stealing a vintage Spitfire and shooting up commercial passenger jets.

oh wait ... modern commercial passenger jets are faster than a Spitfire ...

may I suggest a surplus SU22M4 http://www.skynet-aviation.com/warbi...ets_4sale.html and guns only...dont be a pussy and use rockets:lol::twisted:

This is where vulching comes into it's own!

Oh my God they're practicing!!!! ;)

Influenced?/
The article says he used FPS's to develop and sharpen his aiming... a training tool

i thought it was helping his target acquisition skills, not aiming.

Either way, the twit should be sent to bloody Svalbard to partake in a feeding-program for the Polarbears....

I just dont see what in Call of Duty can be applied to real life shooting... Maybe what end of the gun to point at the target or something...
Its like he said he improved his fighting skill by playing those UFC games.
On the other hand I think games like ARMA could be used for navigation and squad organization training (as they are already doing with VBS).

The only combat-skills you can pull out of MW/COD are pretty much target assessment and acquisition. And then only in a rudimentary way. There's very little about the games that have any real-world implications, and besides, remember that this lunatic attacked and killed unarmed kids/young adults at a summer-camp. There were none on Utøya that was a threat in any way, shape or form.

Breivik is using the games as a means of justification for his actions in an attempt to rationalize his insanity. Nothing more and nothing less.

Hah. Isn't it like saying you can learn sword fighting by playing Skyrim.

Some of the Dragon Shouts might work at least.
Well, if you eat enough garlic anyway.

well i have the theory that fps are designed by generals to avoid the natural 3/4 of soldiers pretending to shoot

but i dont think this guy really needed this

oh he is bad not crazy when will people tell madness from badness, although i admitt both togetther can be pretty bad

So killing 77 defenseless people, most of them children and young adults, in a cold-blooded rampage with guns is something you don't think crazy, or that his reasons for doing so is in any way, shape or form normal? Or that his actions in the courtroom this previous week has been, again, in any way, shape or form anything other than insanity?

Good to know. Real good to know.

well im utterly insane and i dont go on a rampage killing

he is getting all the girls he wants in jail

he has fans

he is spreading his ideas

he made the word multishit famous

he is smarter than me and you together and as crazy as hitler was

when will people get if crime is madness there would be no jails but asylums

of course i admitt theres really bad a bad and crazy person but insanity doesnt mean badnees nor badness means insanity i really dont understand how much people is brainwashed into it

crazy(grazy) has positive connotations, also lunatic , and the word insanity is like condolence

So a book about mythical dieties can influence a group of people to fly a plane into three buildings, but playing Modern Warfare on the computer day after day can't influence some one to shoot up a camp filled with children.

I'n NOT saying video games caused this massacre, but I can certainly see a twisted mind becoming desensatized to killing by playing over and over again - thus potentially making it 'easier' for this nut to go out and do what he did. He obviously already had a screw loose, and was looking to express his anger and frustration (that's putting it mildly) at the wind mills in his own mind.

There's a certain point in this man's thought process that went from deep anger, but inaction to deep anger and justifying killing almost 100 people. I believe MW may have been just one influence that contributed to his mental failure.

I realize there's a difference between a 'thus saith the lord' and this man's killing spree. He probably didn't get his unction from MW, but the core symptom of both groups is disatisfaction, anger, frustration, hatred. Both were manipulated to believe it was okay to do wehat they did. The first group by promises in a book - the other by continuous desensativity and sublimating that onto his victims.

Does that mean video games are inherently dangerous? No. But I have no problem believing that certain minds can be influenced. It's a very very small risk - one I don't think warrants the KIND of attention it gets, but it can happen.


...... and in case you think I'm making excuses for him. I'd vote guilty and the death penalty. If not the death penalty - he'd NEVER get out of jail - EVER.

A death sentence would make him a martyr, in his and his associates eyes, as his belief he had a just cause.
Not wanting to go OT (or into a sensitive area), but, the supposed "Clash of Civilisations" is something to keep in mind here. There's only one thing left really, which can both galvanise and polarise the masses on a world wide basis, and that is religion.

They should just chain him to a lamp post in Oslo overnight.. Let the people decide..

Then pick up whatever is left over in the morning. Save a lot of money.

Anyway I thought it was WoW he was playing? "16 hours every day for a year" is what's been reported over here in the UK

That's enough to drive anyone mad.

Oh.. and I bet you that he's got a tiny d**k... And girls used to laugh at him..

Another small man with big issues.

His insanity is rational. Your insanity is politely irrational. It's like comparing black and white. Good and bad. Enjoy your way of perception of the world and don't let the insane rational people destroy it.

The court there is about to find itself in a pickle shortly, I feel...

"Two psychiatric evaluations have drawn contradictory conclusions on Breivik's sanity, and ultimately it will be up to the judges to rule on them when they hand down the verdict sometime in mid-July.

Breivik will only get prison if the court deems him sane - something he is fighting for so as not to delegitimise his Islamophobic and anti-multicultural ideology."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-2...rson27/3963898

If the court finds him sane and sentences him to Jail, his "efforts" are legitimised

If the court finds him nutso, then anyone who came before that court for religion based terrorism would also have to (by precedent) be declared nutso



Breivik has already done the "voices in the head" thing, in saying the "voices" were telling him not to do what he was about to.

Strange really because in the UK the reporter's just minutes after the trial had closed for the day (on different channels too) said the game he had played was (quote):

" He took a sabbatical of (x months) to play a Warcraft game to hone his skills, "World of Warcraft" that was the game two stations quoted.

This-morning in one of the newspapers I read it said the game was Call of Duty Modern Warfare and they illustrated the article with an image from MW2 where the terrorists shoot people in the airport.

I think it makes more 'news' sense to show 'real' gun footage of MW2 than an Elf in WoW?

Maybe I am just cynical?

MP

Well on the OP I must say as a currently servicing, the only way you can train to fire a weapon effectively in combat, is by firing a real weapon. It's all about what you do at the firing range, anything prior to your first rounds down range is pure speculation. Most of the value of training is the consistency, and automation. You raise the weapon to firing position, you aim the sights, off the safety and start putting rounds at target. After doing this repeatedly over a long time, it becomes natural, just like riding a bike.

When you then "panic" in a stressed situation, this natural procedure has dug so deep you go on "autopilot". Your training is what saves you from your self, always. Stop thinking? No problem, it's in you from training. Do as you've learnt.

Violent game studies are contradicting these days;

One study will say it encourages violence and removes empathy and disconnects people from reality and consequences.

Another study will say it lets people vent their rage at a game, rather than society. It's healthy to rage once in a while, so it doesn't build up inside.


When it comes to Breivik though, I can't help but have mixed feelings.

At one hand, he is a genious in some ways. He pulled off a seemingly impossible task, acheiving his personal goals in some ways. He communicates dynamically with the judges and acts like it's all a game. He is by no means stupid in my eyes. So yes, I do find the whole trial process fascinating.

BUT:

The other hand says this guy's actions were unspeakably horrible and by no means is there any way on earth to justify his actions, no matter what the cause. I strongly feel disgusted and sick when thinking about what he has done, how many lives are destroyed. He admits that his actions are unspeakable and he metaphorically talked about a "voice" telling him "don't do it", but I think it's only a hopeless tactic that would maybe cause people to think differently of him. It's not going to work, ever. I wish with every atom in my body that his actions last summer never took place. Nobody deserves that, no matter the cause.

By saying the trial thats going on now is fascinating, I don't support him, or his meanings or actions by any means. It's just; you gotta wonder how, why and what kind of person does this stuff.

There was a BBC video on the BBC website this morning showning a bit of footage from the court (it seemed where either the defence or the jury were questioning the prosecution and their reasoning for bringing up video games) and World of Warcraft was specifically mentioned there as a direct translation from the court proceedings. As you say, I think it might just be because it's too easy to blame Call of Duty, especially since a lot of people are aware already of the controversy that particular part of Modern Warfare caused.

Anyway, whoever that it was that was questioning what I understood to be the prosecution asked why they had used his video game habits in evidence, and they said they couldn't say anything more than they have already because it might lead the jury to a forgone conclusion (or something to that effect) when the case was not over yet. I suppose, rather than taking a lot of time to explain to the average viewer/reader/listener how WoW is (or isn't) related to the case, it's much easier to replace it with Call of Duty since that's something that everyone already understands I suppose. Like you say, could be cynacism, but on the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't.

its not "supposed" there is a clash and even Merkel had to admit that and I get the feeling that Breivik is the extreme!! embodiment of a growing anti-immigrant sentiment in Europe but one thing is for sure...the guy is a sociopath...you can NOT murder that many people and be ok with it...he is the type the SS sought during WW2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWVmdBUGxAo

Well honestly I understand the anti immigration feeling.
I'm not subject to the muslim horde that you Europeans are dealing with, but we have our own issues in California.

It really makes you wonder if its right to allow people to come to your country, and then wath as they refuse to assimilate, even to the point of refusing to speak English (in our case).

Me-*knocks on door* "Hello! I have a Package for Jose Garcia!"
Occupant-*Opens door, puzzled look on face* "Que?"
Me-"Good morning Sir! I have a package for Jose Garcia, I just need your signature before I can givehand it over."
Occupant-"habla espanol?"
Me-http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/facepalm.jpg...No.

@ Thee Odball

Sociopath might be any easy label, but his testimonies etc indicate that he does have a social conscience - the very reason he did what did (according to him) was, in his view, to protect society.





Kupsised

"He said he played online fantasy role-playing game World of Warcraft as well as shooting simulation Call of Duty, which he said helped to hone his strategies for what he believed would be a suicide mission.

"Some people dream about sailing around the world, some dream of playing golf. I dreamt of playing World of Warcraft," he told the court.

He insisted the game was a social, not very violent strategy game, which was "pure entertainment [and] has nothing to do with July 22".

Breivik said he played Call of Duty: Modern Warfare as actual training for the shooting spree.

"It is a war simulator. It gives you an impression of how target systems work," he explained, adding he used it to practice "shooting other people".

"The plan was to not surrender before the whole plan had been carried out," he told the court.

"It was a suicide mission where the probability of survival was equal to zero."

On the day of the attacks last July he arrived in Oslo's city centre and was surprised life did not imitate art.

He told the court: "I expected three or four officers to come out and get me".

But Utoeya survivor Tore Bekkedal says linking war games addiction to acts of terrorism is a knee-jerk reaction.

"I've played the same violent video games and I don't go round bloody shooting kids. I mean half the people in Utoeya played the same games," he said."



read more -> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-1...-utoya/3961532



Perhaps the video game association was shot down by comments from one of the survivors?

I tried to find the video I'd seen but can't seem to get it any more. Unfortunately, when there's developing news on the BBC they chop and change the contents and titles of articles so it's near impossible to find again. Couldn't find it in my history either. Either way, I don't think it was from that exact passage you quoted, since Breivik himself wasn't there, it seemed to be that they were only questioning the prosecution as to why they deemed that necessary information and as far as I remember it, only WoW was mentioned. If that's the actual court transcript from when Breivik was in court though, that'd make sense why all the papers had jumped on CoD.

The quote is from an article in one of the local newspapers down here and, when it comes to what goes on in a court room, can only quote what was said. They can't give what they thought was said, for example, for penalty of interfering with due process. (I forget the exact term)
The Breivik statements quoted in the article, would be what he said and the survivor comments are unclear as to where they came from -testimony/ interview?.
Needless to say, the defence has something from one of the witness which they could possibly use.

I'm curious to see your video

I think the Norwegian comic artist Lise kindof explains this perfcectly in her comic strip:

http://i.imgur.com/fTTDb.jpg

I'm curious to see my video too :P I can't find it any more unfortunately, which is seriously starting to bug me. I definately saw it on the BBC yesterday morning, but can't find it any more. It may have even been live proceedings or something, since I literally can't find it anywhere and translation was being done by one woman on the fly, or at least it seemed that way. What I meant in that last post though was that you are probably right, since in the video I had it may have only been them summarising what was said and therefore they only mentioned WoW and not CoD.

I dont think he would be accepted in a SS combat unit. They were searching for physically fit young men willing to fight and die for their ideals, and I don't think Breivik was so willing to fight and die for his, being that he surrendered as soon as the police arrived.
And what kind of a joke is the Norwegian police? I read that they do not regulary carry guns...

Agree. The system has half the blame in this case. The Norwegian police did not have a bloody helycopter to get to th shooting scene, while two news chopprs were filming the savage shooting people. It took them over an hour and half to get to him only 40km from the capital.
This is unacceptable. Half those kids could have been saved in most other countries that take the security of their citizens seriously. First, they made sure there are as few weaponns in the civilians hands as possible, telling them the police will protect them. Then they took the guns from the police and did everything they could (with budget cuts and monumental bureocratic bs rules), to make sure those units that still had guns were almost incapable to react effectively.
This case is to be used by law enforcement agencies across the globe as example of "strategy of certain defeat".
The same people that created this impotent system are going to make sure this monster is cared for for the rest of his life.

That kind of stuff can make you so angry you could kill.........

Agreed on all accounts. I hope they learn from their mistakes, and stop living in some imaginary land where those things dont happen. They are responsible for protecting the lives of those people after all.
And the max sentence of 21 years is to me like laughing at the families of victims...

It is certainly tragic that the police weren't prepared, but on the other hand, you have to remember that Norway is the sort of land where these things don't happen. Breivik committed twice as many murders in a day that normally occur in a year in Norway. I can't see any justifiable reason, prior to the shooting, for maintaining a sort of SWAT team or something of the like, in the eventuality that something like that might happen on an off chance. Of course, it's all well and good to look back in hindsight and say they should have been prepared, but in reality there was no reason for them to suspect anything like this would happen.

The same is also with the 21 years thing, there just aren't generally multiple homicides in Norway, so they haven't had to change the law to allow for it. Since you can't apply the law retrospectively it can't be changed to apply to Breivik, but I'm sure they'll have the sense to change it now. But again, this event really isn't something that was forseen and it's unreasonable to have expected anyone to see it coming.

There's no excuse to drop the ball the way they did. This is all related to the political system runing the show. In the town of 200.000+ people I live in, there were no homicides for over two years. The police officers still ride with the c8 cqb carbine in the cruiser, because you never know.

God works in mysterious ways doesnt he....he just sat around and watched.

I seem to remember that nobody foresaw the school-shootings in Columbine or Virginia Tech either, despite having a ready access to guns set down in the constitution. Having police that are armed on a daily basis is in absolutely NO way, shape or form a surefire way to stop a lone person with a plan and the will to carry it out.

The political system here in Norway is NOT to blame for one man's insane rampage, and there was quite frankly nothing that could have been done to prevent this. Our police isn't armed on a day to day basis by choice as much as per orders, and the only two units of the police that are armed and train with firearms damn near on a daily basis are Delta (Antiterror-squad) and the Rapid Response Team. Who, I might add, were both present in downtown Oslo not all that long after the bomb there went off.

If you can blame july 22nd on the political system here, then I can blame each and every gun-related homicide in the US on the political system there. Or any other place in the world, for that matter.

I don't expect you to understand, however. You don't know us, and you don't know how we think.

Re Breivik's sentence: He will most definitely receive the maximum amount permissible by law here, which is 21 years of prison. But he is also damn near guaranteed to receive a sentence of incarceration, which is, under our laws, something that can be used until he is no longer a threat to himself or the society in general. Incarceration is mostly used in cases where there is a severe and real ground to believe that a person will commit similar acts again, and Breivik has stated multiple times that he would if he could.

I'd be surprised if Breivik ever is a free man again, and IF he is, I severely doubt he'd live long out on his own. While we Norwegians aren't vengeful by nature as a people, exceptions have been known to happen. And while not vengeful by nature, we do have long memories.

S!

I think that what is common in Scandinavia is the police not having visible guns everywhere. To some a gun can be a provocation and police is taught not to use it as first measure of law enforcing. And in most cases this is enough and works. But as in any communities there are exceptions and then the special trained police units are called in, even MP can support.

This Breivik..A gruesome example of what a twisted human mind can plan and execute. Blaming computer games or whatever is just an excuse to put the blame on everything else but the shortcomings of our societies. There will always be someone that would do things like this even in the so called perfect community.

Tough times in Norway now, especially for the relatives and survivors. I wish they will have the strength to overcome this ordeal and the lunatic kept away for life.

Ecclesiastes 10:13

The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishness: and the end of his talk is wicked madness.


.

Has anyone ever noticed just how similar a battery hen farm and society are?

I don't blame the system for the actions of the mad man. I blame them for the extremely poor reaction. The fact that law enforcement units in Norway did not have as basic tool as a helicopter, is not excusable and the system is to be blamed for it. Also one can argue that having only two armed units in the country was a shortcoming, as Delta was obviously bussy in Oslo and didn't have enough people in time to send to the island.

I can't say I know Norway, but I've been there quite a few times. I've been from Oslo, to Bergen, Trondheim, Tromsø , all the way up to Nordkapp. Awesome country and great people. But I think the leaders were quite naive about law enforcement needs.