Anyone remember a sim that divided us as much as COD?
 

This is not a rant in any way, as we are most certainly divided. I was just thinking about this the other day...on how certain releases have torn apart folks that have a common interest.

One of the bigger ones I can remember was the release of Flanker 2.0. I was at Combatsim at the time and there were battles going on that were mostly Flanker vs. Falcon arguments. Whats my point? Not sure I have one really...just seems different here and the battle has been going on longer than some real wars.

"Us"... define it please. I'm against the concept of "flight simmers community".

Look at the the stats here (only 20 guys actually answered to the questions, thanks guys!)
http://www.diavolirossi.net/manu/cfs/main.php

"Us" who?

Ok...your going to have to explain this. What did I do to harm a survey I've never heard of?

:D :D :D

Typo issue!! Edited.

So your saying there is no such thing as a flight sim community based on some obscure survey (that you created?) that 99.99% of flight simmers have never heard of? Sounds like a case of hurt feelings more than anything else.

You should have been here ( maby you where and just chose to forget the mess:)) when IL2`s code was cracked and the net was flooded with unauthorized mods, omg.

That was........well, i think you get the picture.

21 guys now.

Answer to original question = Yes
Title of Game = il2

Look... I'm here since the first IL2.

I've never flown in an arcade server, that's 2/3 HL was made of at the time.

And the "full difficulty" servers I flew in were the ones without external views.

So I'm part of a little IL2 community, a single rib of the global IL2 community.

So IMO the CloD is not dividing those communities.

CloD don't have a "community" flying MP as IL-2 146 have.

Too much issues to be solved in software first.

After this, we'll see the IL-2 1946 MP folks going to CloD/IL-2 new titles ASAP.

Simple and crystal clear.

Yes, talk about divishion:
and I have never even tried a mod all the way to this day http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...l/mockface.gif

It's my first real "war" between haters and fanboys on a Flightsim-board, that's for sure, but it's not the first war in general. Having played MMO's for many years, I'm quite used to rabid muppets on each side of the fence (usually between PvP'ers and PvE'ers/RP'ers). Hell, I might even have fired off a broadside or two myself.

The war here could be solved quite easily by the introduction of a peacekeeping-force with the right to execute any transgressors. Sooner or later they'd run out of muppets, but it takes a rather nasty toll on the population :P

Not a Sim as such but I remember the uproar with Empire Total War

It's like the Reformation!

All the signs are there: Luthier almost sounds like Luther.

Who gets to play the Pope?

A bit protracted though ;)

An alternative is just to move all whinge posts into the one thread, and let those who would, knock themselves out

:)

Any mil-sim divides players into 2 sides relative to a gunsight like in this vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8HCM...layer_embedded

Not all forum members are players of cause ))

omg im back shooting, those blind shots are so zen

Just saw this thread and immediately the same answer Ze-Jamz already gave came to my mind. Oh the memories... :grin:

Hey guys can anyone find that picture where there are small pictures of the comunity members interlaced around an Oleg picture?

I was trying to find it but couldnt

I'll just say Luftwhiners and Allied fanbois in the epic golden days of IL2. :D

Luckily no russians were around to feel the wrath of deltawood.

This forum is a kindergarten compared to that, though ppl back then were a bit tougher and didn't just drama queen their way out like the sofites today.
We definately lack ppl like Raybanjockey here.

If the sim survives long enough to be finished, the unfinished part of the divide will be forgotten, then other divides will rise to the surface, like, AI, FM, DM, etc etc, except on a much smaller scale. Most of the community is just fine and can see the forest past the trees, and understand there's always the possibility it could be clearcut.

This is a scenario I can agree with, all will be well except for the few FM, DM, color and A.I skirmishes and nobody really cares about those anyway.;)

edit, wrong thread

Only a few high quality games ever released satisfied / amazes users, only one i can think of ATM is CIV ? even there, mods still improved it further.

I feel CloD is an par with other games I've played.

.

That was a bad one, especially when Paradox waded in on the AI problem. Then Paradox released Hearts of Iron 3 and there forums went into melt down.

I'm not really an MMO guy, but from what I've read, Star Wars: Galaxies experienced one of the greatest schisms in gaming history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Galaxies

How about this:

Anyone remember a sim that was so broken but still had so many defenders?

/troll
LOL!

Its not broken, it was published at least one year too early. The problems of the sim have all to do with it's unfinished state.

And why we are divided by these fact? There is a group saying "Ok the game is unfinished, but it will completed by future patches" and there is another group "Ah my money it will never be fixed, all of the devs are loosers".
I am a member of the first group ;), but i can understand the second group, also. But why must i read the same endless worthless discussions in every thread, mostly from the same people. Thats annoying.

This!

Gee...we can't tell what camp your in by your completley unbiased portrayal of the facts.

Seriously, picture this: Imagine if every single game you bought you paid $50 for, then had to stick it on the shelf for a year. Would you really be happy not being able to play your games a year after purchase? That's how it is for us offline flyers. The AI is so porked it's not even playable. It doesn't have to be perfect or bug free, just playable and it's not.

That's what's happening here. Yes, we all know it was released a year to early and they needed our money to continue. The thing is, we're gamers not loan officers. It's made worse by the fact that we didn't realize we were in the loan business until much later.

The sky is falling.. Watch out!

Hm i bought 5 Copies. 5*45 = €225.-.
Hm i also fly offline a lot. But i can script and i build a lot of test missions so the AI if you know how to handle is not such great problem.

But again we have a neverending worthless discussion about facts every know. :rolleyes:

Yeh problem is not everyone has knowledge in the scripting and coding areas, nor do they want to have to do it anyway...

Gee...we can't tell what camp your in by your completley unbiased response to his statement.

DCS made People (me included) pre-order A-10 a year before it was completed before they 'allowed' them to download their beta. What is the difference there? Did I feel disgruntiled? No Way!

We in the west had a couple of weeks of Russion reviews of COD before it was released. I like 'most' other WWII combat flight sim enthusiasts reflected upon that before we bought the sim. 'We' made tha call that it was worth putting up with the problems to get on 'our' hands on the sim early. I for one have no regrets.

Hey a 'lot' of people bought the Russian release version (wasn't it US$17.00 or something like that?) That was their call. 'Most' said it was worth it to get their hands on it a week or so before the rest of us.

If you are dissatisfied about your purchace, I'ld suggest you move on to bigger ande better things. life is just too short! You never know in the (near?) future a patch may come along that matches the game up with you expectations of a good sim. If that happened then there is nothing stopping you from reloading it on you PC and enjoying the experience. But if it doesn't then you haven't wasted your time.

Cheers!

EVE online.
A MMO i been playing since mid 08 paralell with IL-2 46, last summer had a riot of it's subscriber base regarding a new expansion in the spring of 2011 (wich are all free btw,but game is sub based).
The developers announced that they would be concentrating development on the "in station" things instead of the main "flying in space" part of it for a while.

Went much deeper than that, but resulted in mass rioting both ingame and outof it. Ingame thousands of players gathered and started shooting at a monument in pure protest.
Long story short, the playerbase saw no other option for stating their oppinion and get the game back on track and get the developers to stop just adding new shiny things and start working on repairing features that have been ruining gameplay for years than voting with their wallets showing their discontent with game direction and future plans.

http://http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/11/16/eve-online-monument-commemorates-the-summer-riots/ Will just post a link to massively.com, wich for the interested can lead to propper pages to read for those interested.
Man those were some intense months :grin:
BTW: Not a sim, totally missed the main point :-S Still interesting to see how CCP (the developer) quickly changed course as soon as playerbase started voting with their wallets.

Tiger, I think the point is being 'told' its still WIP would of made things easier for everyone to stomach..You Pre-ordered yes but thats a pre-order and delays is part of the package when it comes to pre-orders..

I am tiered like you of reading the same sh** in here but one things for sure..IF they sold it as WIP, Beta whatever then it would of stopped a lot of the BS that's being flying around here for the last 12 months over and over again, would they of got as much £££? probably not but it wouldn't of damaged 1c's rep as much as it has by means of the community,reviews etc etc.

When i first started flying this game I remember being on comms with a squad mate and I loved how it looked just wasn't happy that i had to turn a lot of settings down (pre-upgrade) but evidently it wasn't JUST my pc...

Oh the confusion here in regards to GfX setups, specs and people going out and spending big £££ on upgrades, should they of? who gives a f** its what some of us do, were inpatient or at least I know I am.

More honest info at the start would of worked wonders, some peeps here would argue we were never 'told' it was finished but that's their call..i know what I took from this game being released

100% agree with you here!

Wasn't it something like 6 months? I think it was 10/2010 for the first beta (I bought it on 8th Oct 2010) and release was 4/2011?

You could be right. It sure felt like a year waiting for those patches to make the game playable! ;)

Just checked my receipt, I paid on the 5th October!

Yes I do! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-FwMteoXjg

Wasn`t that Ubi that forced the release? Why do you blame 1c for every single problem in the world?

No one does that, carguy.

1C did lose, to UBI, the naming right to the CLoD sim

What you going on about?...again

I Blame 1c for every problem in the world...geezers, grow up

Does it matter who forced who to release the dam thing? given my point in my post you just quoted??

UBI the western publisher has very little control of anything to do with COD or its sequels. The IC Company and Russian publisher is the main financer and controller of the IC Maddox Games development.

It does matter, as its not a good thing to go directing vindictive rhetoric at the wrong source...




Who named the sim "Cliffs of Dover"... 1C or UBI?

I`ll ask again then. Who forced the western release? Ubi or 1C?

wow.. the silence is stunning

They're not hard questions,, are they?

Instead it's an hard question... I honestly don't know.

Do you know the answer?

Is it written somewhere?


Anyway you don't release a product in that condition. Because this is business, not "art". Imo the current developers are not totally guilty. I think it's a management's issue, having similar issues myself in the past.

Instead if you look at the lack of communication then IMO it's both 1C's and ubi's objective fault.
Just wait the day guys will start complaining directly to the publishers... that can be the end for CloD. But we're not so bad and we limit the complaining to this message board.

No honestly...it really doesnt

I doubt it would be the end of CoD, maybe. It depends on how the developer "uses" the complaints. They can either disregard the community or take the complaints and use them for the greater good.

Example: http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/

To date I think the guys have been doing the best with what they've got. It's a small team developing an extremely complex piece of software, compare that to the FPS genre where you have a huge dev team working on mainly eye-candy.

Could you be more specific? AFAIK those people that weren`t satisfied demanded their refund @Ubi and got it. So if you have something else in mind please share.

I doubt that UBI were in the position to force anything. The main IC publisher would decide and provide a copy for UBI to distribute to the west. Although UBI could demand that the IC publisher/developer provide an epilepsy filter before they would distribute the sim in the West.

SO.... UBI named the sim Cliffs of Dover, much to the upset of Maddox Games and the sim (western version) was force released by UBI. The original title for the sim was; "Storm of War: the Battle of Brittain".

You (et al) keep on complaining about lack of communication... fair enough - why should they, when greeted with hostility.

You (at al) keep on banging on about business and "management issue"... well good again. Who creates the sim and who publishes the sim?

and further good for you (et al) for just limiting the whining to this board... though, is it getting you (et al) anywhere?

But you can`t provide anything factual, can you? I thought this was pretty clear, but I may be mistaking. The epilepsy thing seems to be clear. Do we at least know that the release was forced? If it wasn`t then I can`t say I`d be debating the cause at all. Maybe we`re again short of information on this one.

I think about a possible penalty clause inserted into the contract. Of course I can only speculate about it: I know it since in my job penalty clauses are usually inserted for an accurate delivery date, minimal performance required and of course the obligatoriness of accurate support too.

I'm scared about it.

Well... very soon i'll not be "divided" anymore, i'll go back to fly choppers:

http://www.arma3.com/full/wp-content...ot_1105_14.jpg

I believe the "graphics engine" of ArmA 3 will have at least FXAA at the release and a little less stuttering...

Bye!

Was Ubi the publisher in Russia too, or is it 1C? I remember that it was released at start, and not in the Western market (as for the US market...)
And where did you read about that forced release?

Do you read hostility in my words? :-|

The publisher needs to be aware of the state of the product, because of a matter of his professional image. Ubisoft did a hole in the water with SH5 too, and infact look at their image: it's an hated publisher and many customers avoid their games (not only since the release of CloD and SH5).
I found it strange that people kept asking at them about the game and they didn't know anything...

About the whining and complaining: I'm totally for it, both as customer and developer. Constructive whining is needed to improve the product (no one is perfect). I remember some days after the release there were guys loving the sound of the engines (the old IL2's one)... why should they improve the sound engine then? Why should they avoid the "engine radar" if nobody is complaining about it (and I did a lot: it was one of my battle horses :-) )

We don't know if they are reading the message board... if they read then they could at least acknowledge the requests/complains. If not then keep whining to so that the problem stays alive and it's not forgotten. Whining does not kill anyone and there is always the "ignore" function that so few are actually using.

Of course sometimes I end with feeding the trolls like today... but I've had some fun: if they are not banned than lets exploit them. :D

This is one thing I don't understand: attack the offensive posters, report them, its' ok... but let the people complain if they want, just ignore them. :-)

IMO whining about the whiners is really damaging the forum... Live and let live.

I have no numbers, but I'm fairly sure and makes sense that COD's main financer is the IC Company, so its highly doubtfull UBISOFT which is only the western publisher would be in any position to force the early release. While the IC Company certainly would be in the postion to end financial support for IC Maddox Games COD development which is under the umbrella of the IC Company.

If they can actually be seen as simulators then RO:Ostfront and RO2 have divided their community, most than the IL2's one, since in RO there are far less options and different styles of playing/simulating.

There was a war into the tripwire forum...

Do some reaserch, find out, get your facts... verify for yourself



Publisher calls (defines) the state of what it is they are publishing.



Agreed that constructive critiscism is good (I assume you mean critiscism, yes?) but it is atm, is harrassment - pure and simple



why should anyone "ancknowledge" anything after the vindictive which has been hurled their way??



now, there's a thought... try practising that one :)

The FM of Take On Helicopters in this new patch is really great...

I'm really divided! Will get "Hinds" DLC today!

I'm thinking about that one, too. DI's Hind was a sim I enjoyed very much, and beside the IL2 the only Russian hardware I really like.

that is exactly the point...

You hit the bull's eye.

Eehh, 6S.Manu,

whining is NEVER productive and by no means related to constructive criticism!

Whining is what happens after the states of constructive criticism and then nagging criticism!

And now for something completely different....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5OR2Aghz-9..._different.jpg

How do we celebrate the first birthday of COD ?

Any suggestions?


http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/s...frech/c025.gif

play it maybe

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Language barrier's issue here... with whining I mean making clear that the problem is, not senseless crying or name calling... very few here are actually crying IMO, so it's no a valid reason to attack every "whiner" (the former type) as guard dogs...

A real life example: I work as developer of industrial software (italian shoes) and I'm in contact with many persons who are "allergic" to PC... you know, guys pressing on the keyboards with the forefingers alone.

One of my biggest problem is not thinking to these guys when I'm develping a new version, and so there will be a function not really user-friendly.
The program is working in the right way but some of these persons write to me with constructive criticism ("it might be better if the UI is made in this way"), others whine (even in offensive ways...) by telephone/email since they don't understand how to use the program.

In BOTH cases I must accept what they're saying (because it's true, the application IS NOT user-friendly) and so I analyze the issue together with my boss and decide if the UI have to be reworked.

And here we are talking about a working software... if it does not work there's nothing to talk about... you make the update now.

I can't ignore them... I (or the boss) answer to them in a honest way ("Good, we're going to change the UI" or "The development of that UI needs too much time and it's not crucial: we'll do in the next months, be patient").

They are my customers... if I don't listen to them I can't improve my application (I know nothing about shoes' production or selling) and above all I lose them.

Sure... You begin and I'll follow.

Fair enough



whichever way you put it (and the problem is the "senseless crying and name calling") whining, whinging, harrassing, vitriol, vindictive, carry on, etc... at some stage the whining takes its toll (as it has) Now, if you had your customers whine in an offensive way continually and over and over and over and over about the same thing, demanding this and demanding that, stomping all over your efforts and virtually attempting blackmail (well there's nothing virtual about emotional blackmail - it hurts) even you at some point would think (and react accordingly) "%#$!& this!", close responses/ filter incoming "critiscism and keep at it until your product was, in your view, acceptable to them and give it a go to them...and for what?? well, hopefully for acceptance and praise (and a bunch of happy vegemites).

Now what happened? Some respect was shown, threads quietened down/ some positive threads were made and a response came.

http://en.gamescope.ru/games/il-2-st...s-of-dover-en/

This link seems to state that 1c is the russian publisher... so how can Ubi have forced the release in Russia too, as you say?

And anyway can you prove me that the release was forced?

Or am I the only one with the duty to prove what I state?

you were given advice on that earlier...

IMO it's because it's CloD was release exactly one year ago... :-)

well, you have your IMO and others have theirs ;) How's your research going??

Research? It's your time to prove me that Ubi forced the release.

Still I post you a FACT:

God Bless the whiners... :D

you mean the constructive critiscisms, don't you? not the whinging surely?

Both... they're both unhappy, Ilya does not make distinction.

sorta makes a mockery of your poor (earlier) attempt of delineation, eh?

Give it a rest will yer...whats with the 'whos got the biggest balls' mentality?

Go outside and clean the car or something

Looks like you hit the thing called 'language barrier' again:grin:

:D ;)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-u0R7URt6CN...E+MENACE+1.gif

In this case I mean both "the unhappy critical guys" and the "crybabies".

Aren't they both unhappy? :-)

Come on, I'm trolling here... and I blame you for this! :D

you mean like to read backward all your crusade in defense of someone that felt the need to give his excuse for the situation?


(to be clear I'm happy that Ilya clarified the situation again, like a good communication is and what we were asking for, and I wish them a really good work because I prefer to fly a good sim)

sorry, what?

I think he meant 'all your crusades of trolling and feeling the need to reply just because you have a diff opinion'

Not my thoughts, just how i read it :rolleyes:

the "different opinion" and "trolling" thing again? - yeah, right okay. Funny how those two always seem to go together

Wouldn't be the thought that some "whinging" might be getting to yer, would it now?

the "different opinion" and "trolling" thing again? - yeah, right okay. Funny how those two always seem to go together

Wouldn't be the thought that some "whinging" might be getting to you, would it now?

Could do this all day but the sun is shining...im sure your still be here writing the same b****cks tonight

wot, a difference of opinion isn't allowed? are you into some sort of wierd WWII Germany RPG or sumptin' ?

your whinging, getting to me? nah, not at all



right back atcha ;)

Not on here, cheerleading only

So many offtopic posts in this thread. Why are they still here and no infractions given out.