anyone heard of tradition of starting voyages on new moon
 

i ask because you can do this in that case:

nomad started voyage exactly on new moon when the angle between sun and moon is zero degrees

along the voyage they would count sunsets and exactly on the 28th sunset they would measure the angle between sun and moon

if the angle was 10º it meant they have travelled 5º of longitude

so anyone heard of songs or folklore sying on starting a voyage on new moon?

Google shows plenty of superstition on the bold part of your quote :)

well the reason is simple see my 1st post

in an east travel around the world sun advnaces one revolution and moon delays one revolution more from as it would from greenwhich,(willy fog)

the rest is easy

the thing its in cartoons but supresed from history

edit:

im kind of seeing why it got supressed:

are you sure we have been told the truth about TIME?

i go east for 28 days you remain at greenwhich

i know ive travelled 90º during those 28 days

you dont move during 28 days

after each counting to 28 sunsets we look at the sun and the moon

you see new moon i see full moon

time relativity anyone?

"you see new moon i see full moon"

No, that's incorrect.

You post interesting stuff :)

But wouldn't we have all this type of navigation worked out by now?

I know we have flown highly accurate atomic clocks on opposite routes around the globe and measured the difference, we've had Astronauts speak to us from the Moon and the ISS and can measure the difference and thus eventually be able to calibrate such every day devices as car sat nav that is as near as accurate as we'll need.

As for relativity, the answer is, its only relative to the perceiver ... that's what it means ... I think :)

I'm not sure what your point is here to be honest?

The above could be used in pretty much every single one of raaids threads, devoid of basic logic....

Another xxxxxxxx topic. Any chance of re-running the poll to see who wants Raaaid to continue spouting his inane drivel?

so what is time?

traditionally the delay between two noons is taken as refernce of time

but some cultures take sun noon and other moon noon

and others BOTH

if you go east slowly sun time will acelerate since yourfollowing sunset but moon time will slowly delay since your following its orbit

so answer me this bs question to prove its bs , if you do right ill make another poll

how can time simultaneous acelerate and declerate

i have no clue thats why i ask, do you see anything wrong in asking?

edit:

whats moon time and sun time?

difference between different noons of each

what happens if a go east following moon orbit and sunrise

sun noon happens faster moon noon happens slower

if time is either sun or moons noon difference how can one time go by faster and other slower?

"Time is not a reality, but a concept or a measure." Antiphon

The passing of "time" does not accelerate or decelerate regardless of how it is measured.

Poll please.

no you havent touched my point

if you pls i admitt im too stupid to hold the sun moon model in my mind

but having been all my life stupid i learnt to simplify

so heres a simplified model of sun earth moon=

earth is the center of the universe

sun and moon rotate oposite to each other both every 24 hour

so its acepted i can take an arbitrary time either sun time or moon time both are identical

but god i travel west and reality gets insane

sun time and moon time are not syncd anymore

sun times accelerates and moon time decelrates or the opposite i dont mind im dixlexic

is time then justy a moldable illusion?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Denoument.jpg

No. The notion of time is a human "creation" and so it is susceptible to inaccuracy and illusion created by imperfect calculation or by using celestial bodies to measure it. Yes I do know of ancient civilisations using planetsetc to measure time.

Once you work out that the sun and moon are not synchronised it may become clear for you.

Poll please.

yes so you admitt is right if its a human creation doesnt really exist

an illusion

You are getting off your subject.

Poll please.

well ponder this

phileas fog lives in this planet with a counterotating sun and moon

after his travel around the wolrd he counts 79 suns and 81 moons

dont you agree then he could use a combination of sun-moon dial he could easily obtain longitude which is interesting for navigation?

how?

from greenwhich time difference will be always zero, both sun and moon take same time to make a revolution in the sky

but for phileas fog who travelled around the world he will count a 2 days difference between sun time and moon time

so the rest is easy

360º 2 days
90º 12 hour
30º 4 hour
15º 2 hour

so whats wrong with this?

why this isnt in books?

answer right any of this and youll have your poll

but i bet for sure like when the time i had no money and i bet one euro i could drink a beer of one swallow

Thanks for pulling us back to reality with the Monty Python laughter conspiracy, Katana! :D

Dear Raaaid:

I was suspecting, but after reading this genuine argument, now I am sure: your account is being used at least by two others.

One of them have posted that the earth is flat, and the other has proved it has radius of 600 km. You should delete your account right now :grin:

Please don't take it too seriously. i know you won't ;)

Do remember there are 23 hours 56 minutes and 4.09 seconds in a sidereal day ... not 24 hours.

I want all those stolen minutes back !

well i solved the paradox if instead you had you would have had your poll but sorry it wasnt bs:

i finally figure out how a primitive folk could have obtained longitude with the lunar distance method

the problem is that i can not transmit the sun and moon movement to the same dial when i travel changing longitude and of course it gave to the full moon seen by the traveller and at the same time new moon seen from greenwhich paradox

the reason for this paradox if that if i use the same dial for both sun and moon time im assuming they have a fixed proportion and this is not the case whn im travelling east in whcih their proportion appears to vary to me while travelling

so the key is to keep sun time in a normal dial

and keep moon time in a mirror dial like this:

http://interiordesignhouses.com/wp-c...ror-Clock1.jpg

so then when you travel east you keep both moon and sun time in each dial

if the moon its at six o clock in the mirror dial and the sun at 12 o clock in the normal dial but you see an angle between the sun and the moon of 0º or 0 hour it means you have changed 90º of longitude

well can i claim the prize by the royal navy now

Your question was something like:

How can time simultaneously accelerate and decelerate?"

I answered that question. Poll please.





Also, you use "bs" in that post. I'm sure you'll get a 5 point penalty as that's contrary to the profanity rule, isn't it mods? sarcasm/off

well im not making the poll cause you didnt solve the new moon full moon at the same time paradox while i did:

you cant take the same dial for times that have changed proportion by goin east

you have to use a mirror dial and a normal one

yet if you want you can make the poll without mentioning me

for example something like this:

POLL: should be allowed offtopic in the offtopic section?

ill abide by the results as the rest

..what's really disconcerting is how you're allowed to relentlessly keep on posting this kinda utter rubbish and move interesting stuff down.. note that most of the posts in your threads are made by YOU, just to keep the topic visible..

I really don't know what to make of it: a part of me is seriously concerned about the fact that you're allowed to spend too much time on the internet, the other is annoyed about your consistent nonsense, which, as a forum user just like you, I find disruptive and annoying.

for me its interesting how to obtain longitude

now you may find more interesting what the media tells you whcih you copypast here

whose postin brainless rubish

btw after a thread of 210 posts in a phisics forums its been acepted this idea works

of course since you dont understand a word you think its nonsense

in whos side is nonsense actually when i reached by myself the same idea than euler on lunar distance post it and you call it rubish

edit:

chew on this nonsense and admit the problem its its too dificult for you:

phileas fog in his travel around the world counted 80 sunsets while going east while in london they counted 79

but how many moons did phileas fog count if in london they counted 80?

in his travel around the world fogg would have counted 80 as well as in greenwhich

by earths roation he counts one more than ingreenwhich due to his travel, by moons translation he also counts one less moon than if he hadnt travel,, a net diference travelling or not travelling of zero

so you see by travelling around the world that is 360º of longitude lunar and solar time offsets 24 compared with greenwhich

so you just have to keep track of sun and moon to obtain local sun and moon time and if its ofset 0º from expected you didnt move and if its offset 24 hour you travelled 360º of longitude

this is NOT nonsense and i bet many find it amusing and intelligent

your seeing it as nonsense is your not understanding

No. It's nonsense. It doesn't compute, it doesn't follow any logic, so in a way you're right, I don't understand what you're on about. And even if it made sense, it's so poorly explained that it can only be classified as nonsense, since 90% of the time what you write is actually unintelligible.

I'm not saying you're not intelligent, but try and not ramble on too many things together, take all this time you put here to write down in an orderly manner a thesis or essay on your favourite subject, people might start to listen to you then. You can't complain that people don't understand you if you don't make an effort in the first stance and explain yourself properly.

+1

and add to it to finish the things you start (have look at all your orphan threads after you suddenly lost your interest on them) instead of throwing one after another. If you don't care about your own creations how you can expect someone else does?

And try to tell less lies. We are not stupid you know? ;)

All right ill try:

I think I´ve made a new discovery on archeoastronomy:

It is something simple yet is like realizing that the tree which falls with nobody around makes not noise.

Ill let Jules Verne explain the key concept:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Denoument.jpg

And now my discovery and the reason the nomads like american indians counted moonsets:

I hope somebody help me figure out better but here it is the second concept:

Moon time is for travellers a universal time actually:

Simply think about this:

If in London they counted 80 moonsets how many moonsets did Phileas Fogg counted in his travel around the world?

80 moonsets as in london, contrary to Sun time moon time its universal IF YOU TRAVEL

Think about this, it´s fun :)

Much better redaction!

Ok you attracted my interest, I will think of it, seems like a good puzzle.

Thanks raaaid.

From now on I will writte like this.

I dont think it is really the redaction but i am giving proof of my interest by making a bigger effort.

By the way i love forums because it is the only place where i can be myself and tell no lies. :)

Edit:

Well i have just solved the problem and my heart beat got to 140

I will not spoil it for you but i suggest you take a fixed frame reference, an static Sun.

I was wrong in the universal Moon time thing,you will see if you come up with answer, yet it still proves the ancient sailors could have known about the lunar distance method from 1760 to obtain longitude just by counting suns and moons

No, believe me, the redaction was a problem for following your logic.

Also bad for your image, because you said you have a degree in english, and your careless writing was making appear you like a liar.

You look like a sensible person raaaid. Maybe you want to accept a suggestion from me.

You have both people that likes your post and people that doesn't like them at all. I think the last ones have nothing against you, simply they are not interested. But since you're one of the most prolific persons I know, your posts are all the way around and some find it like spamming that put down in the forum other threads.

What about keeping your offtopic posts in one thread? That would help you keep focused in one thing at a time, keeping all your thesis and theories together. I bet that thread would be always the top one, so practically, a sticky. And that would end all the complaints about you.

Cheers!

Yeah¡ thats fine this thread will do:

You go east following Earth rotation and Moon orbit

From a fixed frame, the sun, Earth rotates 28 times, Moon rotates 1 time and you rotate one time in your travel around the world, all with the same sense.

You can take yourself with Earth as a single thing that rotates 29 times, the 28 from earth plus your travel around the world

So then you substract 1 from moons orbit to this 29 figure

So in your travel around the world going east you count 28 moons

How many did they count in Greenwhich?

28 from earth rotation minus one from Moon translation= 27

Seems i had gone wrong

But the bomb in archeoastronomy is that Phileas Fogg in Travel around the world in 80 days counts one MORE sunset than in London and one LESS moonset than in London

What I am figuring now is how the ancient sailors obtained longitude with this knowledge with the simplest method, I would appreciate suggestions :)

Eulers solution took four hors to obtain longitude with the lunar distance method and though the wikipedia explains wrong the lunar distance method to obtain longitude i could bet its the same I say

Hey raaaid, I kept my word and had a look at your affirmations. I am sorry to say you that I cannot answer your questions because you are mixing Science Fiction and Science.

I have not the time nor interest to read Verne's fiction again, so I can't say if he counted sunsets, moonsets or sheeps. Anyway I remember that Verne used a known fact tho give a thrill to their audience at the very last chapter.

That known fact is that you can cross timezones travelling, or in your own example, see more sunsets travelling eastwards that if you remain stationary. In fact I can write a fiction story now, where you travel so fast eastwards that you can see in the same timeframe 5 sunrises while I am still shaving myself and yawning.

I hope also that you realize also that moonrises and sunrises are 1) dephased, and 2) that they either happen or not happen (you can't see 0.75 moonrises right?).

So yes, it is possible that at a given time, for two observers in different places the count of moonrises can be different, even if both observers are stationary and close to each other, and even more, if the counted the same number of sunrises

That is no "bomb in archeoastronomy" man, maybe for some, but for international travellers is basic stuff. ;)

If you don't mind I'll wait for your next one, this one I find no interesting.
Sorry!

Maybe you that like so much maths and strange coincidences of numbers, are interested in why we always see the same face of the moon? This question arose a few days with my friends and it was interesting to hear the answers.



P.S.:
16.03.2012
Valencia Moonrise 3:16 Sunrise 7:11
Madrid Moonrise 3:33 Sunrise 7:24

Well actually I have been partially wrong all this time

if in london they count 79 sunsets and 76 moonsets Phileas Fogg in his travel would have counted one more of each

All this time I have been using a model in which Earth rotates at half the speed the moon takes for a full rotation around earth

In this way the Sun and the Mon have different apparent sense in the sky so my idea would work since Fogg would have counted one more Sun and one less Moon than in Greenwhich in this case

Anyway I still think ancient people could obtain longitude easy what im still figuring out

edit:

The reason we see always the same face of the moon is tidal lock

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_locking

This is due to the center of gravity and center of mass of the Moon being in different places since gravity varies with the distance SQUARED

I have been pondering to buy this watch but its a too capitalistic thing:

http://www.yeswatch.com/timekeeper/i...Hour-Bezel.jpg

If you ever wrecage with it you could easily know longitude by the offset between the sun needel and the real sun

Though I coud do the same with my 30 euro casio which tells sunset and sunrise time :)

I've got a watch I often wear that can be set to show local tides high or low or moon phases, but I can never be bothered to set that function and I don't think I'd ever use it even though I do like Astronomy.

Best fun I ever had with a watch was with a Casio remote control calculator gizmo watch ... I think you can still get them, they were a bit bulky looking even back when I owned one in about 95 though and like something from Thunderbirds one of their puppets would wear ... but what evil fun I could have with it :) I'm not a football fan, but I'd sometimes go into one of our local pubs when there was a big footie match on ... check the brand of TV and go to the toilet to input the code, then go back and sit down with a pint and change channel just as it got exciting for the football fans there ... I'd have been chased if I was caught at that though, also used to learn the codes for friends and family's TV's and switch them on and off or raise and lower the volume without them seeing me.

This was the watch ...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg

Today so close to the equinox when the sun rises exactly in the east and day lasts as long as the night lasts I started back my eyes exercise which brought back the 3d perception

http://yaplog.jp/tek_tek/img/70/1021...93e10dd0_m.jpg

this some see it in 3d some dont

i see it 3d with glasses and flat without them

but could not it be applied to games to make them easy 3d?

Those are not watches ... they are electronic toys ... these are watches ...

http://www.steampunklab.com/watches/11

http://www.monstercommute.com/wp-con...punk_watch.jpg


http://cdn.walyou.com/wp-content/upl..._Watches_4.jpg

http://cdn.walyou.com/wp-content/upl...Watches_17.jpg

http://cdn.walyou.com/wp-content/upl..._Watches_6.jpg

Something I often thing about it´s why after exactly 2003 flies become stupid

I have been hunting flies all my life till 2003

After a crisis in a moment of wrath i killed a fly hitting it like you would hit a marble with your index finger

I killed 30 flies in a row without missing one in a period of 2 days till I got sick and decided I would kill a fly no more

When i was a kid what i do in this video would be imposible, now flies are dumb as hell

my theory is that i am not on Earth anymore but in a planet with a population so peacefull flies dont run from humans any more, maybe inner earth?

or they just got dumber?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cJff...ure=plpp_video

or I am a fly mind bender?

... and the bees are disappearing ...