CO-OPs again...
 

After the CO-OP poll i thought i remembered something Luthier had said, and here it is....

Unfortunately two major things we cut out of the beta version of the patch did not make it into this release. Distant 2D clouds continue to conflict with NVidia SLI. The old Il-2 co-op style plane/position selection GUI also needs more work.

These changes will be released shortly.

From here... http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=24037

Which seems odd when Luthier says this now....

Will we see the coop mission in CloD, as it was in the old "IL-2"?

Quote:
Don’t understand the question. The way we see it, CoD already has Il-2-style co-op. We are certainly not planning any major changes to online modes, GUI, or anything like that.

Confused, so was Luthier just making that up about the clouds and CO-OPs? patch padding?

I remeber this too.
So whats going on with it???????
Or is it just another unanswered question?

uhm.... maybe luthier fixed, tough it was released when it isnt. it would be a normal confusion and happens to me.

Or maybe we're all talking cross purposes, he specifically states GUI there and most of the discussion I've seen mentioned just says co-ops, in which case Luthier is right, they do exist, we just don't have the GUI yet?

No Dano, i think they have gone the same place as this lot....remember...

FM reworked
DM fixed
Radio coms working
Radar
Ground control
British ships
2d clouds
Sli fixed
Exe crashes fixed
Community manager
Ground handling
Something great but i cant say...
SDK coming very soon!
FMB docs
Server files

The big downer for the Squad I am in at the moment is the inability to have coops on the main channel map, really the whole idea of the game for squad based flyers I think.....

Stop that furbs, I'm trying to stay positive :)

Stay positive guys its not good for your membership to be anything else here. I think Luthier is doing a fantastic job, its just that he has great difficulty in remembering anything. :confused:

Luthier was probably refering to the plane/position list in the map/briefing menu, wich was introduced in one of the patches.

And yeah... it's possible to play coops in Cliffs of Dover right now, just design a coop mission instead of a dogfight map. And you can use a coop script to get rid of the plane selection problem and if you don't want the AI taking off early.

Yes, COOP-style plane selection menu was introduced in the latest patch. It is supposed to fix the coop issue when players could not select planes if map icons were turned off. Before patch it was possible to select planes in coop only by clicking their icons on the map.

WPF.Unavailable issue prevents the menu from working correctly on the channel map however. A script posted in the MP forums sections solves this and other problems but does not have a GUI: i.e. players have to press 1,2,3,4, etc. keys on keyboard instead of clicking LMB. Not a big deal.

Now that makes more since than any of the the 'theories' thus far of Luthier being forgetful and/or confused.

Works brilliantly it does! loads of people playing co-ops every night! we dont need anything else :rolleyes:

Hardly anyone is playing in any type of server at the moment and it will stay that way until they get the game engine fps and stability sorted, etc etc etc. This is exactly what the developer is trying to do but nobody remembers unless they post it every other day.

We do remember Chivas, we have been remembering for the past 9 months.

Well... If we dont play coops in my squad right now it's because of the memory leak problem (doesn't have sense to be flying 1 hour just to crash the game when you are going to drop bombs), and also the only allied bomber has a wrong and very difficult FM. Aside from that there's absolutely no problem to play a cooperative mission.

So we need the new patch solving these 2 problems, not an old GUI from an old game.

I like you Tree, and enjoyed flying with you, and hope to fly with you again, but you should be banned from the forums until the sim is on solid ground. Everyone understands the problems and doesn't need your constant negative refrain that can only drive away possible members of the community. It would be different if your constant unrelenting negativism was constructive but it never is.

Naglfar i would really like you to some me how its possible, some sqd mates and myself would appreciate it.

I like you too Chivas and have much respect for you as a person and a pilot, even though you have disagreed with me right from the offset and even with most things I pointed out before release having sadly come to fruition i still would not wish you or anyone else for that matter banned, because although the points you made before release sadly fell on stoney ground I still think you were/are entltled to say them, I have never pm'd a moderator to ask for someone to be banned because im not that sort of person. Sadly you do not feel the same way. So i guess we should agree to disagree but I would never ask for a ban for you despite your track record of not being able to read between the lines. I hope you have a great new year.

An early release and bad reviews is way more likely to keep users away than when a forum user points out the games flaws.

Tree (and everyone else) should stay here unless the mods decide he has crossed the line. There are people here who make me not want to post (or visit these forums) because they are such obnoxious trolls, but since they support the game they are allowed to stay (I don't mean you, Chivas) so I think we need guys like Tree who are vocal about the game to balance it out.

And more on topic: as an offline flyer I would be very interested in Co-op missions working smoothly (and launcher crash fixed) cause that could get me to fly online more... (AI and comms keep me from playing much SP at the moment, but I know the upcoming patch should fix those issues).

Happy Holidays Folks

Tree, except for the banning i'll subscribe Chivas post!

I still hope that you see the light and realize that constant bickering is contraproductive.

You seem to me like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde respective flying and posting.

I've never PM'd the moderators for the ban of you or anyone else in these forums. I've also said for the last five years I didn't think it would be possible for the developer to apply all the features they talked about with playable frame rates. i've also told you a few times its the easiest thing in the world to predict missing features and delays in a development this complex. I understood the developers were letting the community know what they were working on and that there were never any promises. You never understood this and took everything they said as a promise, and accused them of being liars if they didn't succeed on your time frame. I hope you have a great new year aswell. :)

Well if somebody tells a lie then I do have a tendancy to point that out. i think even the most ardent fan of this sim would be hard pushed to say that we haven't been given more than a few porky over these last few years.

The cake is a lie......

This thread is about co ops, so talk about co ops...

yes, lets get back on track, so any news on when the Co op's will be fixed?

Dunno. Hopefully the devs can be persuaded to look at it again. Some people seem happy with the new set up, but I think there is a significant portion of the community IMO (I guess mainly squad flyers) that would prefer the old system. I don't know if it is just a GUI issue or the whole system.
My own opinion is there was absolutely nothing wrong with the old system, but who knows what will be developed for this series in the future.

Personally I don't think the developer has stopped looking at it. It appears their plan is to have a server platform with plenty of options to satisfy most simmers and the SDK will probably help the community further modify the platform. There is a huge amount of documentation to be done yet, never mind every other aspect of the sim they are still working on.

It will be a Keystone Cop movie in the developers office until the basic game engine is working. Until then I still enjoy the odd flight on the ATAG server where I can fly my ground attack mission or air interdiction against humans and AI, most everyone on comms, much the same way I did flying COOPs just without the wait. The fine details will come eventually.

Respect ;)

I am hoping Co-op will come back with a properly implemented gui.

Ok. I don't know what exactly do you need to know, so I'll try to explain it all.


First of all you'll need a coop script. There are two right now:

- By Naryv: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=354537

- By 41Sqn_Banks: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28559


I've used Naryv's one, didn't have time to try the one from Banks, so I'll explain how to use Naryv's script. With pics and stuff :mrgreen:

To start you'll need a coop like designed mission. In this example it's just a group of Blenheims with a Spitfire escort, flying to attack some german airbases. And a trigger acting like some kind of radar to alert a group of 109 and 110 defending the airbases:

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f..._90/coop01.jpg


You need to make sure that all the airgroups are idle, so they'll start only when the script says so. Just selecting each group, and cheking idle in the airgroup properties tab:

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f..._90/coop02.jpg


When your done editing your mission just save it. Then you'll have to rename the script file to the same name as your mission file, and put it in the same folder of course.

You can edit it if you need (to add other scripts for example) clicking Edit, Script, and selecting the Script tab in the FMB (you can also copypaste the script directly here instead of rename the file):

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f..._90/coop04.jpg



Now we are ready to fly the mission.

Join the game and select side, the script will put you in a plane. You can open the map, press the right button, and click in briefing to read it. Or you can hit ESC to go again to the map room and read the briefing there.

When you've decided what plane do you want, simply hit TAB to open the comms menu, and then select option 4, Mission:

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f..._90/coop05.jpg


You'll see this; select option 1, Select Group (sorry for the chat :-P):

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f..._90/coop06.jpg


Then you'll have a list of all the selectable Air Groups, select whatever you want (then you'll have a list of all the planes of the group, select again what you want...):

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f..._90/coop07.jpg


With a plane selected, you'll see a list of all the available positions in the plane. If there is someone ocuppying this position, you'll see his name. Again select the position you want:

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f..._90/coop11.jpg


Finally, when you're happy with your plane and your position, open again the comms menu, select Mission, and this time select Start Battle.

When everybody is ready and selects Start Battle well... the battle starts:

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f..._90/coop12.jpg



It's very easy to do and much quicker than it looks here.

Only one more thing if you host the mission in a dedicated server. The server is counted as a player, so if it's a dedicated server it can't say that it's ready to start. The solution is simple, just edit this line in the script (put 1 instead of 0) to make the battle start when everybody minus one is ready:

It's in the middle of the script aprox...



Now all the people will say that this is not a cooperative and I'll have made all this for nothing :lol:

If you're not satisfied with the current system why not ask BlackSix to add it to the next list of questions for Luthier at the sukhoi thread here? Be specific with your query and suggestion.

Yes, personally I'm not saying that it has to be like the old gui, it wasn't perfect and had it's flaws. I suggest that the developers take a look at other games, not just flight sims. There's nothing wrong in borrowing something that works.

Thanks very much for that!

Il give it a go so its not a waste of effort on your part but it does seem a very long winded way to do what was a couple of clicks the old way.

But again thanks for this mate.

Once you have the mission ready it's just 4 or 5 clicks, not so long :mrgreen:

Also I forgot to mention that the plane load it's whatever the mission designer put in the FMB. It can't be changed when you select the plane.

Thank you for the detailed run through of the procedure.


Cheers and Happy New Year!

SO? waht do you think it is missing?


Personally, developing a script that loads on coop after the other after a certain time would be nice.

So that you have a list of planes that you can take and will take off at 10AM, you fly and land, wait, then another list of planes pop up for the 11AM sortie. this would result in a continuous dogfight style gameplay, but would create a wave effect, rather than a "resupply the front line" one.

by lsit i mean the il2 1946 coop plane select thingy.

I believe Co-Op is now already possibly much better than it ever was. It's just a different approach and map makers need to re-think.

If the community could get a few coders on board and the SDK and some documentation get's released I believe the current system can be MUCH more than co-op. It can be "just" co-op, yes - but also a large dynamic and co-opable campaign map, side mission co-op on live online servers (e.g. an online dogfight map could have numerous co-op missions if you find a few guys and want to fly with them etc.)

The only downside is that there is a bit of lack of documentation. And that the scripting part needs to be provided by community members - which often is very unreliable and tedious.

That said I'm really wondering why there isn't a forum section (or sub section) just for co-op maps. It'd help people make them, talk about how to make them and share them without the clutter of a merged universal forum.

My suggestion:

• developers could provide a sticky detailing their view on how the co-op's should be done in the game now and providing some great code snippets and links to documentation to help the community using the new style co-op's ;)
• developers / moderators could create a sub-forum under the "CoD Multiplayer" board.
• moderators could maintain a sticky post providing a list with co-op maps, documentation etc.
• regulars could describe specific scenarios and tell about how they would envision the co-op to work, eventually this can be solved already and if not it could be seen and discussed as a suggestion eventually
• experts in coding could provide their code snippets
• expert map makers could post tutorials on which code snips they used and how. videos or pictured and detailed posts would be easy to understand.
• everyone could visit the forum and either get into mapping or try and play the co-op missions provided by the community.

I strongly believe co-op is a great aspect of any multiplayer game and should be very much cared for.

Thank yoг very much for detailed explanation. Banks' version is an improved naryv's version, thus I'd recommend using Banks' one. He is also more prepared to provide support to it.

@ ALL
However he paused development recently because no one shows real interest in coops on these forums. About 120 people read this thread http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...ht=coop+script and no one replied to it or provided a bugreport to Banks as I begged there.

This fact simply proves that some forum warriors are interested only in using the coops topic for abusing the devs on the forums but not in really flying coops. Proving every day that "I was right saying that the game would not work" makes you feel good but feeling good because of other persons' failure makes others feeling a certain way about you. Try feeling good because of helping those who failed for a change, send a bug report to Banks at least.

Some nice assumptions there Ataros.
I'll make one too: Maybe folks want something out of the box and not manually slapping their missions to make it work?

I agree and made my point directly to Luthier in the appropriate thread http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...2&postcount=25

Will not repeat it every day as it would not help but would on the contrary harm CloD and the series.

PS. Sorry for my spelling errors.

+1

Exactly. This is important. I hope as soon as this project is ready http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...0&postcount=71 Banks will integrate some sort of coop mechanics into it at a later stage. E.g. players would be able to create coop flights via the TAB-4 menu to attack current objectives.

Very good reply's thanks chaps, but i still think we should have and i cant see what harm it could do to have both ways.
making CO-OPs still should be easy and intuitive, and be simple enough for anyone to make, adjust and play.

I hope Luthier will change his mind and see this, until he does i think there will be no online wars.

Well there's no need of old coops to make an online war... I think that right now it's possible to make a classic online war (generating missions, reporting logs, all that...). I don't see what's the problem to make that.

But the possibilities that you have with scripts are way better than that. You can make a 24/7 war, moving ground units, generating air missions and watching all these movements in a web browser map in real time. Just like a SEOW, but in real time.

Or you can make it with dynamic ground movements. Like the ADW but without stopping to load the next mission.

And a lot of things more can be done, but all this needs time, and people willing to do it.


Personally I think that, speaking only about online wars, the old coop system is a thing from the past and no longer needed.

Lets hope your right, and time will tell. Because so far NOTHING is happening online for sqds apart from air quake on ATAG.

Ive not seen one new style coop(how do we find one?) online so far.

Certainly true for the Dangerdogz.

We wait patiently..........

There probably won't be an exodus of simmers from 46 to play COD online until most of the issues are fixed for people with average computers. Personally I've been able to fly the ATAG server with no problems. Not sure if its because I have decent computer with a separate OP and SSD for COD only, or just lucky.

Don't think pc powers the main problem holding up migration, its simply the fact the transition is so difficult, GUI, Steam, etc etc.
Many IL2 1946 users are used to the Hyperlobby and the format used to fly there,
CoD in its present form suits the casual lone wolf DF server flyer as it has no "soul" or community as of yet.

Until it becomes more user friendly and Squad orientated it will remain as it is a DF server quake game.

Lessons should have been learnt and integrated into CoD from the way people use IL2 1946 to keep the continuity and migration simpler.

The Hyperlobby community has been supporting new users to IL2 1946 for more years than I can remember, leading to increased sales
and generally keeping a huge interest gong with the IL2 series.

I cant see a few Dog Fight servers on Steam holding user interest for long.


.

quoted for truth, spot on.

anyway, roll on 4.11.

this is true. when i decided to trey hte game online i googled " how to paly il2 online" go the link of hyperloby typed in chat "hi, im a noob" and then i had these like 5 offers to different squads and a lot of guys teaching me how to use it, and told me what foruns i should go to and all that stuff.

So better not evolve and keep everything the same forever just to keep the continuity? :rolleyes:

Hyperlobby also works with CoD btw...

I agree that COD still needs alot of other work, but one of the few servers with any people in it, is the ATAG server where most people are flying missions together on comms. The missions are more COOP related, than airquake. Both sides have ground targets and organize flights of bombers some with multiple people in the same bomber, others fly escort, while others provide cover over the target area. This have very little in commone with airquake.

Chivas, ive spent prob about 30 hours on ATAG and ive never seen more than 2 human bombers together plus 1 escort.
most of my time was spent chasing vashising dots and stopping 109s straffing airfields.

It's getting much better once you are on coms, in this quite a few flights get together. My fav was a 5 ship 110 raid so far.

However, ATAG provides a very static environment and I am looking forward to the day when there will be more moving targets, triggers and dynamic missions.

I will give it another go tomorrow.

I agree triggers which are great feature available now, but I'm not sure how easy it is to implement, or how it effects frame rates at this time. Moving targets are also available on the servers, but again I don't now how well they work. When everything gets sorted and optimized by the developer/ community, the missions will be awesome.

Yes evolution is good ........ if we can evolve and continue, at the moment its not for many of us.

Continuity = £ & $


Re: Hyperlobby


http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=25745



.

Why did they have to get rid ouf the IL2: FB lobby system? I just got CloD and still haven't figured out how to play it with friends my own server.

I can't even see if they have connected, although the chat works fine. The plane selection is very buggy, and only the server owner can press fly - others will stay at the lobby.

Honestly it can't possibly be this buggy, I must be doing something wrong? If I only did figure out what. Never had problems with 1946, although it had no server list, atleast the listen server creator worked perfectly.

The COD developer has nothing to do with Hyperlobby. Hyperlobby was setup by a third party who I believe is in the process of adding COD to their sim list.

COD is quite buggy as it had to be released before it was finished for financial reasons. They have address some issues with patches and are in the process of developing further patches for COD while also developing a sequel which can be merged with COD.

You are wrong, its perfect the way it is. We dont need that old CO-OP system that worked fecking every time.
I mean look at all the people playing CO-OPs every night.
Luthier says its staying as it is. :rolleyes:

I've never been a huge fan of the old Co Op system. It always had a "staged" feeling to it, utterly artifical. I see the benefits in regards to online wars, but it still always reminded of a more Call of Duty style system then anything else, with the sole exception being "dead stays dead", or simply a football tournament. There must be better, more dynamic and immersive ways of conducting squad style combat without relying to a rather static and outdated system that requires pilots to wait for ages until a new mission was set up for running. I am seriously wondering ppl stick to this system just because they lack the imagination to get something better implemented by themseves or the Devs providing a more natural feel for historic airware.

To be honest i think all of us dont care if its the old way or the new way just as long as its simple and works.

Yes, we only mention the "old way" as its better than what we currently have (i.e. Nothing :P) so if they can improve it then of course we want that, I would have thought it would have gone without saying...!!!!

in the high times of IL2 coop onlinewar flying, the waitingtimes in the Hyperlobby slots were actually quite short very often.

one has to mention, 9 months after IL2 releasecthere was no online war running. it took its time to organizice them, and they improved a lot during the time. perhaps some can remember the manual reports in the debriefing screen in the first IOW :D
Open Coops were flown alot after release, BBury's Valley of Death anyone ;) But without the working Hyperlobby, all this would not have been possible. Il2 online playhad a lot of benefits because of a 3.party tool. cant imagine what would have happened without the HL.
The UBI.com lobby was crap, IIRC i was there once and than never again.

I will wait what the community is able to do online with this software in , lets say, 2 years after its release.....
in the moment the online possibilities of the software and the scenario of the BoB is boring for me.

Imagine Hyperlobby never came to exist... The old method would be a giant pain in the ass.. dogfight or co - op

What we really need is to be able to have a first person perspective run around on foot addition so we can go hang out in the ready room and then have silly races to the parked aircraft Le Mans style :)

I get it, but you must understand something.
I think that I can say for others, that it is not the same recipe as in 2008 we call for. Just as others have already mentioned, it is not really important how we implement it as long as we get a similar end result, with some of the CoD evolutionary features. And it is certainly better that what we have now - nothing.

I guess that df servers, scripted, non scripted and so on do have die hard fans. So do generic coops and online war type coops. IMO we should not say which is better. The thing is, df server fans have something similar to their liking, whereas coop fans have nothing.

And yes, the "staged feeling" is right, because it was staged to some point. Eventually, most of the players taking part in coop mision would end up in one combat area, beating the crap out of each others. However, all of them started their flight at the same moment, all of them had only one life. I`m not using the term "game of chess" for nothing here. Both sides made their moves accordingly to what combat situation looked like.

That is about it for generic coops. Now online wars.
At least two combat areas, evevn 110km separated from each others. Few types of player flights, including the light fighter squad, heavy fighter squad, bomber/ground support/resources flight. All of them starting at the same time. Now depending on what possibilities the VOW/VEF/IOW/BW site gave the sides - players ended up with adequate planes to their situation. If you botched your Li-2 escort and they got shot down, you had short or no tanks to take ground or planes to support them from the air in the next mission. Sometimes for that sole reason, reds had to put up T-34 against Tigers, or IL2 flight did not have an escort. The variants were numerous.
I had to fly many missions where out of bad resources, the Luftwaffe side had to use Emils in 1942 campaign, as fighter support. In other missions the reds flying Romanian, used Bf109 against blue German 109.

Big formations flown by players only, supported by AI, were a normal sight as non squad lone wulfs always got quickly shot down. The red side often made deception flights only to misguide enemy escort flights. Li2 flights changed routes and so on.

All this binded by every players` career,stats and mission reports featured on the online war site. Both sides in time developped their own heroes - players with the most downs, that lived throught entire campaigns. This ofcourse led to recognizing of the best online squadrons that took part in coops. One can easily say that an entire community gathered around coops, more specifically online wars.

IF we can recreate this using different tools than by all means let it happen.

And last but not least, it always mattered if you nursed your damaged plane rtb for repair. It always mattered if you managed to survive.
The one funny coincidence was that airquake flyers could rarely take the difficulty of escorting an IL2 flight with I16, against the 109g2 flight.

Yes, we can recreate this and much more with the current system. The old coop system isn't needed anymore to make online wars.

Brilliant! so when do we start?

Of course when someone, as it was in the old il2, writes the necessary scripts.

Well if its as easy as that....who needs simple CO-OPs that could be made and played in about 15 mins by anyone.

Robtek, can you write some CO-OPs for me then?
I need about 12 for starters to sort some sqd training...you know mixed combat, ground pounding and escort missions, 12 vs 12, 6 vs 6, 2 vs 2 you know dead simple to do.

Then later some more complex stuff for higher level training.

PM me when you have got that sorted.

Cheers buddy!

CO-OPs and online wars here we go!

OK so as it was usually the Russian community that came up with the online coop wars whats the news from there? Online coop wars are huge in the Russian community.
I doubt I'm alone in thinking we would be playing a massive BoB online war by now.
Strange that we are not if its all so easy.

the first ones, IOW and VEF (realy ancient times :) ) were founded by a german respectivly by an english guy ;)

Well thats why I said usually! ;)

Agreed..

The problem is the bar has been raised..

That is to say some of the people who were able to clear the bar in IL-2 can not clear the bar in CoD

The bar level being C#

Thus those who know C# can do amazing things in CoD that could not be done in IL-2.. But now the pool of people making missions (coops) is much smaller

It is a give and take.. It is too bad 1C did not have the time and money to offer both the old and the new.. Maybe someday they will?

But if I had to choose between having the old IL-2 FMB in CoD or the new CoD FMB I would choose the later.. Because being able to do more is allways better imho.. Granted it will be slow at first, as some get up to speed with C#, but in a year or two once we start seeing all the neat things being done that could not be done with the old system.. This rocky slow start will be but a faint memory imho

indeed, we will see.

Oh yes, thank god they simplified making coop missions by now having to use C#. It's so much easier than before, everybody's doing it! To think that the game has to be good enough four us, oh lol, it's we that have to be good enough for the game, of course! They should have sent a "C# Programming for dummies" with the game instead of an FMB manual...oh wait! there isn't any FMB manual, how silly of me.:grin: Sorry, couldn't restrain myself.

We are so lucky in having our own expert in AOA on these forums though, Im sure he can knock out some COOP's in no time at all. See Im all postive now, I didn't realise that the game was just an empty box and we had to build it ourselves, lets get organised, Aces your a programming expert where do we start??

I agree coding expertise has delayed major mission building, but also documentation and game engine optimizations need to be completed before COD will really fly. Hopefully the next patch will optimize the game engine enough that more people with the necessary coding expertise will want to become involved in major mission building. If the new series does survive long enough for optimizations, documentation, and SDK the community can take over, but at a much slower pace than if the developers were still involved.

Now where have we heard that before? Seriously 9 months on and we are still hoping. I admire your faith lads truly i do, mine had gone completely before release :grin::grin:

You guys would be aware of this thread?

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...147#post376147

My 2 cents...

COOP in COD are still nothing than a DF server with COOP interface. The inability to to halt the mission time and read the briefings before the time starts.

I tried the "Idle" trick and made a recording; It showed that when the server is started the aircraft more or less fell from the skies. A/C and TIME was not frozen.

I read the complain about the feeling of mission being scripted with COOP. But this is excatly the feeling I want when I do my training missions. Mission were my pilots starts in the middle of the action so we can train the same subject again or again in order to make it muscle memory. Somthing we use a lot in EAF. This feature saves a lot of time.
I would love to do it the old fasion way as they do it in the USN, USAF or USMC but none of my pilots get paid to use real fuel in a real live aircraft. Which is why I want the old style COOP back. It would also make it easier and more temting for the SEOW folkes to adopt the SEOW campaign for COD.


BTW I would like to thanks the SEOW and HSFX folkes for their work all those years :cool:

And yet you're still here... :grin::grin:

First of all, let's not get confrontational among ourselves over something that is not directly in our hands. ;)

With that being said,

Pretty sound arguments. A lot of people are expecting a newly released sim with not much in the way of 3rd party tools yet, to be what IL2 was after a couple of years of 3rd party involvement.

I'm not much of an onliner and mostly used Coops to train a mate who was returning to flight sims. When i wanted to fly online i always joined one of the objective based DF servers to get the best of both worlds: there is a mission to win and tasks to achieve, but there's also enough fluidity to ensure unpredictability and no waiting times.

I think the only thing needed for CoD is two switches: synchronise spawn times and no respawn. Then whatever we have will be able to work like an old-style coop which to be truly honest, would be most beneficial for arranged squad matches and squad training.

For an on-going online campaign with some sense of dynamic nature built in, the old coop interface is a bit long in the tooth frankly, as it would miss the opportunity to use certain appealing capabilities of the new engine.

Slapping up a quick and dirty training scenario for training people? Perfect. Making detailed scenarios that want to ensure the players follow a specified mission plan? Perfect. Making an online war? Workable but far from what can be actually implemented.

Mind you, i'm not saying the coop interface is not needed. What i'm saying is that sticking to it will limit the things we can do in the long run. It is needed, but mostly to bridge the gap until we get the really cool stuff happening.

Long term, i'd rather prefer a situation where a supply system is implemented (this means scripting), so that hitting targets has an effect on the enemy's ability to fight back. Then, depending on difficulty settings we could have respawns, limited respawns, no respawns or even virtual lives (eg, resettable stats and a counter on how many lives a player went through during the current campaign).

Even more, we could limit the ability of players to switch sides and even positions in a multi-crew aircraft. That's the reason these features exist in the difficulty options.

If i was running a more relaxed campaign i could allow people to come and go as they please. If i was running a more regulated campaign, i would have people register for a certain team for the entirety of the campaign through the server's forums, so that they can't get intel by simply joining the other team. Then i would have two sub-forums, one for each team, where they could plan their actions and operations without the other side having access to them.

This way (especially if dynamic/moving targets were scripted) players would have to actually fly recon/armed recon sorties to locate targets, instead of briefly hopping to the other team, taking off and making notes of the defences for the airfield they spawned at, switch back to their own team and plan a sortie to attack it.

If we wanted to take this further, we could even make it so that players sign up for a specific task or squadron for the entire campaign (eg, fighters or bombers), or even a specific crew position for the really hardcore crowd (like flying the entire campaign as a bombardier).

What this would need is a forum interface where the players sign up for their preferred team/task/etc and a parser adding that information into a script that controls what the players are allowed to do when actually connecting to the server.

The possibilities are endless and i thought up most of it within a week of release, just by looking at the difficulty options and wondering "now why would they have an option to limit this and that?".

Have some imagination people, we just have to wait for scripting to evolve or the SDK and manuals to be released. ;)

The good thing is that since i'm now studying computing i'm getting to grips with how objective oriented programming works and C# is pretty similar in structure to most of the OOP languages. The bad thing is that it won't be before summer that i'll have the time to possibly sit down and code something :-P

The best thing is that we already have people working on it, see Jimbop's link:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28559

Well, I bought the game. Used a lot of time in the FMB. Flown a bit.
Right now I am looking to see how long I should wait before I buy a new grafics solution. My GTX260 will barely give me 29fps in COD.
Keeping a thread in mind is a way of telling that there still are a need for a specific change.
The reaction from the staff here are helping me judge how urgent such a purchase is ;)

but I do look forward to the next release for IL-2 :grin:

Where did you get the impression I or anyone else said it was simpler?

The point I made and the point you missed is mission making is going to be harder due to C#

I thought I made it pretty clear when I said the bar was raised? Guess not

The other point I made and the point you missed is those who can make mission using C# are going to be able to make far better and more realistic missions

That is the give and take I was referring too when I said it is a give and take

Long story short, the more powerful the mission maker the more complex it is going to be!

At least 1C went with a popular language like C# over some of the other flight sims like DCS that went with luna..

Funny thing is..

If 1C didn't change a thing in the FMB, as in didn't give us anymore control/options all these threads whining about it being harder to make missions now would be replaced by threads whining about not having anymore control to make missions than they had in IL-2

Poor 1C.. Dammed if you do, Dammed if you don't

Geee thanks Tree! That means alot comming from you! So much that I think Ill update my sig! S!

Ageed 100%

No problem buddy, we are lucky to have you and this fantastic game. :grin::grin:

No thank you!!

I think the game is even more lucky to have your continued support. They keep kicking you out, and you keep coming back to support it even more! I am inspired by you.

C# is not needed to create a coop mission. Banks did everything for us already. What is needed is to copy Banks' files to your HD, load game, open Banks' lobby and open any offline mission (from any campaign or single player) via it. This allows to play this offline mission as coop.

Recent version allows running several coops at the same time (that was not possible in Il-2 and is much more closer to IRL airwar). Worth coping here
This system can also run on top of any "dogfight" server (some players dogfight and others fly coops in the same airspace).

You know that..

And I know that..

But some of the nay-sayiers refuse to know that..

That or they don't know how to copy Banks files to thier HD! ;)

Now if that were true hopefully you would left along time ago. ;)

This.

Unfortunately the people here seems to lack a lot of imagination and patience :rolleyes:

----------------------------------------------

One more time for old times sake...

THEN WHY IS THERE NO BLEEDIN CO-OPS BEING PLAYED? IL TELL YOU WHY, BECAUSE THE SYSTEM DOESNT WORK!!

Are you saying that somewhere back in development history they said "i know, you know that old style CO-OP that worked 100%...lets swap it for all sorts of cool stuff that nobody will use because you need to learn C+ to do anything...oh and lets not provide any manual or documents as well for at least 8 months"

You need to learn C+ to make CO-OPs? are you fecking metal??

THERE ARE NO PUBLIC CO-OPS BEING PLAYED BY ANYONE AFTER 8 MONTHS!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND, ITS NOT WORKING!!!

---rant over--- :grin: needed that.

May be because of the memory leak problems that the game have right now, wich can cause a crash just before dropping bombs, or even better, just before landing after a completely succesfull mission :mrgreen:

Just because you can't do anything with the scripts doesn't mean that nobody can and nobody use the script system.

I think that the decision to include it was the best decision they ever make with this game.

You don't need to learn C# (CoD use C# for scripts, not C+) to make coops. You just have to use a script made by other people (the one made by Banks for example), wich is a very simple thing to do.

As I said, there are other problems more serious than the lack of an old coop system.

But anyway that's false. E69 played recently a public coop, and I think that they had more problems with the crashes than with the CoD online system.

Yes, I doubt coops will take off (pun intended!) until the CTD issues are resolved. This was interesting from the guy who runs the ATAG server:

"Hopefully we'll get a patch out soon, so we can include some of the other missions we've made that are more focused to the formation/bomber flights/ground pounding. Just in the current situation of the game, it's not worth running until the launcher issues are sorted.."

From here. I can't wait for these types of missions but agree there's not much point starting them until people can reliably take off, fly a decent length mission and land again without crashing. Hopefully the next patch sorts out the memory leak.

I can understand the frustration, but keep the "fighting" in check please.

Also, try the solution/workaround/whatever before you deem it not working, if you haven't already done so. If you have tried it and it didn't work, post in the relevant thread (eg, the one where Banks released his co-op tool) and ask for help.

In short, use proper forum etiquette like the reasonable beings you are, instead of getting worked up just for the sake of getting worked up. Or else the moderating team will also start to get worked up and do a thread clean-up. Just saying :-P