Poll!! Regarding old style Coop GUI
 

Please Vote

More detailed explanation from KG26 Alpha

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=27934

This vote has nothing to do with C## script or FMB GUI.

The current COOP mission starts work horrible. Pilots ability to catch their ride in time before an event are insufficiant. The old COOP style was created to suit people. The current interface want people to adapt to the machine. The wong way around and not suitable for a coop. I have yet to se another game doing it the current COD way.

I believe we can agree that the fmb-documentation is missed as the old-style-coop-gui, where No.2 might be obsolete if No.1 where present.

The reason is manpower, time, money and different priorities for devs and users.

Absolutely mate your right, added also you cant use C# to create anything that is not already in game, and half of what is doesn't work yet, thus rendering C# pointless.

Ye gads guys......................

The Op's poll (if I'm correct and I'm sure I am) is for a CooP GUI that works like the old IL2 one, its has nothing to do with the FMB/scripting or anything else.

Perhaps firing up CoD and having at look at it will help you.

Yeah, this arguing about this is silly.

It's as simple as this: The old IL-2 1946 coop setup for players joining a coop mission and for launching the coop missions worked. It was simple and obvious.

Running CloD's coop missions is neither of those, regardless of whether or not it "works".

Mission building with the FMB has nothing to do with this poll or question.

Thats what I thought ,its about meeting,joining ,side ,aircraft selection ,arming, brief then launch.
The FMB writes the Coops but does not launch it .
I have looked at the FMB and but have not done attempted any mission building since the first release but will post in the relavent section once I have had a try to learn this scripting language.

Yes...but the new way isnt COOPs its something else.
And we need CO-OPs for training and online wars.
If the new way was good and working we would be seeing online wars by now...we dont.
Stability amd CO-OPs...not "something else" unless it works better.

Ace, they are not talking about the new mission scripting or anything related to it. They are talking about the screen which is presented to the player when they choose to join a co-op, and how it is bizarre, unintuitive, and doesn't allow the player to choose an aircraft before the game starts. Nothing to do with FMB, just the multiplayer user interface. That can be changed without altering the C# scripting in any way other than to acknowledge that players have already chosen aircraft before mission start time.

Most of the posters here assume that the old coop-gui can be easily implemented, it seems, but maybe the reason, that we don't have it, is that it isn't easy or even impossible to implement with the new game engine.

I can't see how that would be the case unless Oleg shot the guy who made the netcode on his way out the door.

EDIT:: To explain more, we already know that SP missions are MP ones with a single client (the player), since that is the "great revolution" in the mission design / game structure of CloD - that SP and MP are interchangeable for all intents and purposes. In SP we can choose to start in our aicraft, ergo all that is necessary is a bit of messing with whatever the UI is coded in to pass this info to the server and return to clients which positions are occupied before starting the mission along with a cheap, ugly bit of UI design to do the job like in every MG release so far. If our guys can't do that then I can thoroughly understand the state of the game.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo.........

Ok.. now I get it! Sorry for the confusion guys!

And thanks Grunch for helping me pull my H out! ;)

Yes.. that part I don't know how you would handle it online, other than to have the guy running the mission telling who to fly what

No problem, I guessed when people kept saying GUI that you hadn't caught on. This game has lots of GUIs! ;)

Yeah.. I thought they were talking about the GUI of the FMB, you know the pull down menu and stuff

PS sorry KG26_Alpha.. I know you tried to tell me that too.. but it just wasn't sinking in!

Again, sorry gang my bad

Also mate, with reference to what i was saying (my basis being modding for ArmA which is slightly different of course) you need resources which are not available to the scriptwriters at the moment which also Furbs has highlighted too.

As an example : In ArmA you would need to know class names of all the units in game that you want to script for, without the similar required documentation resources for clod, script writers will only be able to produce so much, hence why some scripts so far are limited to basic principles.

EXACTLY!-thats why there are only 62 votes in the poll -nobody is interested in the game-nobody can play co-ops-who the hell just wants to fly on dogfight maps all the time -boring!-you cant even fly with your buddies on-line like in IL2 in co-ops.?

Then ask if it is possible.

There are enough people looking here, there are just not that many people interested in coops.

In CoD the difference between coop and dogfight is very small, as you can have ai in dogfight servers.

And of course you can fly with your buddys online in coop missions, just build the mission and start a server.

The only thing missing is the gui to make it available for everyone.

Utter rubbish...

There is a huge difference between a dogfight server and a coop, yes the differences might be slight but they have a huge impact on how it plays

Agreed.. That and it is ironic that 1C's biggest competder to CoD is 1C's IL-2.. Add to that the fact that alot of people playing IL-2, play it because IL-2 runs smooth on thier 3 to 5 year old PC. That is just a few of the reasons why there are so few playing CoD online.. And yes, before a gloom'n'doomer feels the need to step in and point out some master of the obvious bug in CoD, yes there are other reasons people are not playing CoD, we get it.

Agreed

That is a good point..

Correct me if I am wrong, but the biggest difference seems to be the list of planes in the IL-2 GUI menu vs. displaying a map with bases, or inflight assest.. That is to say

IL-2 COOP
1) select plane from list of planes displayed in GUI menu
2) Hit fly

CoD COOP
1) select plane from one of the bases displayed on the map
2) Hit fly

So yes selecting the plane you fly is now different.. but when you consider all the things you can do in CoD that you could not do in IL-2 that difference does not seem to be a show stopper.

You really need to take a look at some of the script examples Altros has in the FMB section, becaues from what I have seen during the review of those examples that kind of stuff is doable in CoD using the C# scripts

You shouldn't try to impose the old il2 limitations on CoD.

Just tell me please, except from the gui and the debriefing, what exactly can't you do in a CoD - "dogfight" - mission that you could do in a old il2 coop mission, and how important is that particular point?

I have they are not bad scripts, and your right will be very doable but as i say somewhat limited right now. My fave is the emergency vehicles script.
I'm hoping when the proper documentation comes out it will have all the relevant info to produce some good external scripted addons, like say play a custom sound file attached to one of the emergency vehicles as an example. Until that sort of thing can be achieved I'm not going to look at script writing.

Yeah it sucks not having any documentation.. But Altros and the gang have reversed enginered alot of it by just pulling the info from the DLLs

But as i understood everybody can take a plane on a base and the ai is on hold until a trigger is set, i.e. by the starting planes.

Isn't that the same? Ok, every pilot is challenged to take the correct plane and loadout, but even that can be set, afaik.

That is the way I understand it, granted I am not a mission making expert, but from what I have read that is the way it works.

Same end result, a little different path to it

Again, based on what I have read that is the case

But there must be something missing.. In that even Altros said the current CoD coop is 'broke'.. Not 100% sure what he means by that?

But.. I look at it this way, we may have lost a few ways of doing things, but we gained much more than we lost IMHO

Ok i will explain why we need CO-OPs....

When i used to be part of a online IL2 sqd we would have a training night once a week in which we would want to work on different aspects of online flying, some would be practicing say 4 on 4 dogfights or 2 on 2 or 1 on 1 then after a hour we would maybe switch to a sqd dogfight with 8 or more of us vs AI.

Or we would want to try bombing ground targets with a few of us joining the CAP flight and then after we would want to switch roles.

Now we want to be able to do this all in one night with no fussing around, with short flights to the target, with the AI or other members of the sqd in the right place at the right time with the right loadouts.

then if we want to tinker with something we want to able to do it in 5 mins and be back in the air.

If something goes wrong we want to be able to restart the mission with one or 2 clicks and be all ready to go in about 2 mins.

IL2 did this perfectly, CLOD cant.

its a simple as that.

I still don't see anything you listed that can not be done..

Please focus on one example of somthing that you think can not be done, than maybe we can find a solution?

That is to say Just because CoD does it differently, or because it may take your mission makers longer to make on the fly changes does not equated to it can not be done

OK

You don't get it and never will so leave it at that please as this incessant going around in circles is pointless,
you don't seem to understand what's being said,
if you don't care and it don't affect you then leave the discussion and let those who do care it does affect explain and put their point across.

You have had your say and we have all heard.

I apologise if I sound harsh but your just not getting it.

Thank you

Yeah, spot on furby

Well.. I get it now that you were talking about the list of planes in the menu (GUI)

But the rest of what I said still stands..

That being other than a different way to select the plane you fly, you can do COOPs in CoD

Or put anotherway, no one has posted anything that can not be done in CoD that was done in IL-2 other than the difference in the way you select your plane

It was very easy to do in il2, its simply not the case in CoD, yes everything is there but the process is much longer in CoD at present... why make things more complex!!!?

What they are trying to say is with the games current setup it makes this overly hard to do, and that until MG fill in the gaps with the rudimentary style GUI like the 1946 style, right now though the only way is to spend ages creating separate missions for multiple circumstances. Which of course takes time and training doesn't have the flow that it had with IL2 1946.

Ok, i get it.

You want it the old way, not worse, not better, not different, just like it was in the good ol' days.

Just a idea, different game, different approach.

Complexity is the price of flexibility.

Why not use the coop script from navyr?

ACE if all this is possible...please set a CO-OP up and i will join you.

Lets say a very simple CO-OP to start...

2 planes 1 spit 1 109

spit on the airfield, 109 1 min away in the air, then we will stop and switch roles, then change planes.

I have a TS3 channel ready.

Why did no one ever complain about the original? seems like it was flexiable to me.

Never said that, don't put words in my mouth, I want a system that was as useful as the one we had in il2... why argue against something that is very useful... if anybody on this forum deserves the title "fanboi" then its the people that stand in the way of progress just so they can defend a feature that wasnt and should have been around from the start!

Thank you Krupi!

So it was easier in IL-2, which is not to be confused with it can not be done in CoD, just that it was easier

That is kind of what I was gathering from all the posts.. In that I have yet to see someone post an example of something that can not be done in CoD.

That one I can answer easily!

As a mater of fact I allready have several times, but Ill say it again

CoD is more complex because it can do more (read has more options)

It is that simple!

And that is true of typically everything in life, the more options you have the more comlex it will be

As I allready poined out, 'IF' 1C could have kept the old and new methods that provide more control/options that many of the mission makers were asking for..

I am sure 1C would have provided both the old and new!

But clearly it was not posiable to do both

Unless you are of the belif that 1C could and did do both, but pulled out the old methods prior to release just to piss people off.. Which I think even the harderst of hardcore doom'n'glooms would agre that is silly

no need fubs.. K and others allready confirmed that what was doable is still doable just harder to do

Everyone interested please try this script http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...537#post354537

I hope C# knowledgeable people can fine-tune it to match old IL-2 style and functionality till we have a GUI version from the DEVs.

WHAT THE HELL...

ABSOULUTELY CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF AOA changing the argument....

NO one said it couldn't be done but it takes much longer and is a pain compared to il2... and its not only the "coop" the whole user interface is FUBAR...

Your defending this.. a 2 year old could make a better interface in his sleep for crying out loud.

You guys are barmy... stop defending this game so much everyone here want it to succeed we are simply laying out some things that have been left out an shouldn't have been...

You are given us hell when we ask for a simple feature that should be there...

STOP DEFENDING THE "GAME" SO MUCH...

Bottom line is

It has to change to succeed.




BTW Ataros thanks for the info you have posted in the past in the FMB section,
but as already discussed this is only a work around for the Channel Map (which wont work in any other mode apart from DF) to be used in non DF server manner its just a moving DF server script not for CooP.

You need to reword your thread linked above as it has nothing to do with old Il2 CooP style and how it worked, its just another script for DF server.

The CooP GUI needs changing no script can fix that.

Anyone that thinks its a good idea that only programmers can make co-op missions, is clearly nuts, even if those very few can do more with those very few missions.

speaking from the point of view of someone who flys co-ops with my squad all the time.

in fact its where i'm off to now, il2 1946 of course, cause we can't in clod.

Good grief...if you cant do it and i cant do it...then we cant bloody do it.

What?

I don't have the time to look back at each post.. But I did get the impression that some were saying that.. If that is not the case, than sorry for the mixup

Change is always a pain

More so for some than others

All I know for sure is the mission builders ask 1C for more control.. 1C listen to them and gave us what we have.. More control with more flexibility.. And for some reason 1C could not provide both the old and new methods. Had 1C changed nothing, all these posts requesting the old COOP GUI would be replaced by posts stating 1C didn't give us any more control than IL-2 had in mission building

1C.. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't

You can never make everyone happy!

That is your opinion and you welcome to it.. But in light of the fact that no 2 year olds have stepped up to the plate I think you assessment is in error

Laying? I think I know what you meant, and I am not lying.. And I would also appreciate you not implying that I am and if you could refrain from calling me names like barny that would be appreciated too! Thanks!

Ask yourself Krupi..

If it was so simple..

Why didn't they do it in the first place?

Your answer will be very telling

So pointing out the facts is defending?

Well I cant play the piano either..

Doesn't mean no one can play the piano

I'm out bye :rolleyes:

Yes but if i cant set up what i want to do, then what good is it to me?

No. This script does the following:

1. All air units are set to idle. This means they stay at their first waypoint.
2. When a client selects a side (red/blue) he is placed into an aircraft of this side. He can then select the aircraft he wants within the radio menu
3. When all players selected their aircraft the idle block is removed from all air units and the mission starts.

Yes it is a work around. Yes it doesn't have the GUI but it works very similar to the old COOP style.

And you don't need any programming knowledge. Simply copy/paste the script into your mission and that's it.

There are so called 'static' objects in CloD similar to original Il-2 which can not be addressed by script yet like sirens, airfield lights, buildings, trees, etc. And there are dynamic objects like aircraft, tanks, cars, AAA and AT guns that can be addressed. The purpose of the static objects is to reduce hardware load (less code attached to them). Statics are not very important for mainstream air-to-air game-play, but mostly used for decoration. You can create any mission without them to reduce loading time and increase FPS. In the future more statics will become dynamic objects though (when people are happy about their PC performance with CloD).

C# gives endless possibilities already now. A 6000+ lines script by Small_Bee runs on Repka #1 server now, including dynamic sea and ground war, resources production, transportation, storage and unloading procedures, landing parties capturing airfields, dynamic aircraft types limitation, vulching protection for some fields, balancing scripts, etc, etc, etc. More to come in v.2, e.g. teamplay incentives: spawn a squad of at least 4+ human-piloted fighters at an airfield and you will be able to create (via TAB-4 menu) a bomber mission that you will escort, etc. I.e. you can create and fly 'coops' one by one from within a 'dogfight' server, with several coops taking place in the same airspace like it was IRL.

As much good as a piano! ;)

Thank You Banks!

That sounds like the 'thing' everyone said they wanted/needed! S!

Sounds like 1C came threw to me!!

Well, according to this poll 90% of the people who care about this feature are either having problems making it work or feel that the way it works isn't right.

If 10% is your definition of success,...

---

Alternatively, you could offer to make these coop missions for people who are having trouble. That'd be helpful. I have a few I'd like made.

Change is never easy..

Reword the poll and place it in the FMB forum and Ill bet you have the oposite results

Who said change was easy? It's hard!

Can I PM you with the missions I want so you can help me out? I'm going out of my mind trying to get these to work, but you seem to have figured it out.

In original Il-2 Dogfight and COOP were separated due to engine limitation only. There is no COOP mode IRL and it was not supposed to be in a sim.

Now the devs created the engine where division to 2 different modes is not necessary. There is one gamemode that is called MP that simulates real life. It is supposed to include both dogfight and coop features. In this new reality COOP interface only limits the available MP gamemode prohibiting some features like re-spawn, etc. The issue is MP mode does not include all coop features of original IL-2 via GUI yet. This has to be fixed imo.

In other words in the past we had 2 separate game modes: dogfight and coop. Now coop is a part of dogfight mode. However for better usability and user friendliness we need a GUI for coop part only.

E.g. when starting a MP server (that some call Dogfight) a host should be able to check a checkbox "Simultaneous start" and one of checkboxes in "Mission end conditions" section: 1) endless, 2) all planes landed/destroyed, 2) time limit, 3) planes of one side destroyed, 4) trigger, etc. Then the game should display debriefing after mission end.

BTW CloD architecture allows all servers to have their own GUI via server-side addons (including COOP GUI of cause). The devs did not have time to provide a working example of it but mentioned that it is done as a standard WPF interface.

Maybe one of C# programmers can make a GUI add-on before we have a solution from the devs.

So true!

To be honest, my focus on scripts is on collecting in flight data..

During that process I have looked at alot of 'other' script examples that Ataros has posted, and while doing so I saw some of the neat stuff there are doing!!

But I havn't personally done any mission scripting in the mission sence.. Just logging flight data

So, Ataros is the guy to ask! And there are some other very bright guys in the FMB section of this fourm too! But check out Ataros's sig at the bottom, he has a bunch of links to a bunch of examples that will get you going!

FMB is not COOP...

With coop you shouldnt need to spend a large amount of time trying to setup a coop, when are you going to get that SIMPLE fact in your head?

You keep on bringing Ataros into this but he voted for a coop system as well lmao FAIL

No ACE, we want a intuitive easy to use method of making CO-OPs with its own GUI. Just like IL2.
Hence the flipping name of the poll!!! :)

I never said it was..

On that note, read Ataros's last post, he explains it better than I could

How CoD took the TWO and merged them into ONE

Actully from what Ataros said in his last post it can be done now.. Just need someone to do it

OMG that's it I have had enough of you... I have never used the ignore feature before but your complete ignorance in this thread and others has led to this...

The game has problems that have been admitted by MG and the poll shows that a large number of ppl want the simple coop feature back but you continue to say everything is rosy... The game will be amazing one day but I have no longer the time or patience to deal with someone so unwilling to listen to others and ignorant to boot.

Bye.

I think really, we can look at it like this.

A co-op in the Il-2 sense is basically a "mission". Once the mission is over, you don't want to keep playing. The whole design philosophy is different. Once you choose an aircraft you have an individual squadron or flight goal, and once you complete it, you are done and you can return to base unless you have other plans or interruptions. You fly one aircraft, and if you die, you are dead and it's tough, everyone else must fight on without you. It's interesting *because* of these limitations.

A dogfight in the Il-2 sense is a populated environment with no particularly strict or rigid mission structure or narrative or goal. It's just a "map". If you die you can hop into another aircraft whenever you want, or even into an aircraft in flight (depending upon settings). This is all we have at present in the GUI sense as there is no sense of "preparing for a mission" or "finishing a mission" - there is no decent briefing to speak of and no real debriefing or stats. There might be an overriding goal but because of the lack of detailed individual squadron briefing and aircraft choice and so on, most players will ignore it, and the map inevitably descends into furball chaos.

For that reason, the idea that co-op mode is now unnecessary is untrue. It's a completely different style of play with a completely different philosophy. To say that it's unrealistic because "in real life there was no co-op mode" is utter nonsense. In real life there was ALWAYS co-op mode. Military aircraft take off with a goal and a task to complete. This is clearly set out and timed and co-ordinated with other squadrons and groups. It isn't just "BLOW UP THE SHIPS SO RED WINS MAP LOL" either. The individual squadrons and groups' goals are distinct, and are planned to individually contribute toward achieving an overriding objective. These objectives are followed because they are the pilots' orders! You can't have that kind of organisation spontaneously, and that is where the current GUI falls down.

Dogfight mode is not a replacement for this because there is no organisation and no one to give orders, because if you don't agree with them or you have your own ideas, why would you follow them? You are not compelled in any way by the game structure or the scoring system or even other players to do so. Points and kudos are for blowing stuff up in dogfight mode, that's just how people think.

Did anyone who played IL-2 online for a long time ever consider MDS to be a complete replacement for co-op? I certainly didn't, and this is the same situation.

If only

Just to be clear, I never said the COOP is unnecessary

I don't know of anwyone else that said that either

Only thing Ataros said was 1C merged DF and COOP into one, aka MISSIONS

He also noted that if someone wanted to, they could generate a IL-2 like COOP GUI/MENU/LIST with post mission debreifing

That is the beauty of the CoD C#! Only limit is your imagination!

Problem is it does require one to learn C#.. Which at this early point in CoD seems to be too big of a learning curve for some.. But I think a year or two from now we will be amazied at all the things those C# guys are doing that the IL-2 COOP GUI/MENU/LIST is a distant memory

Cool, but what we need NOW ACE is IL2 COOP mode, can you really not understand that?...wait...doesn't matter...the rest of us know it.

That might be true, but as I've said elsewhere, we didn't buy this game to learn C# in order to do something that we've been able to do officially and far more completely since 2001. I can see the utility of C# for really advanced triggers and awesome stuff like that, but that is cool stuff that we have no right to expect as basic functionality. A simple co-op GUI is just basic stuff that we all expected since before the game was released. I understand your point ACE, but this is a game, not an SDK or an open-source project. I spend enough time dealing with horrendous and buggy scripting at work, I don't want it to eat into my gaming experience as well.

I am all for a IL-2 like COOP GUI!

My point is if it was easy to do, as 1C was re-doing the FMB to include C# 1C would have done it

So, clearly it was not easy to do and 1C felt it was better to give us more options/controls

But it is nice to know that if someone wanted to do it, it can be done via a C# script

Aren't those two assertions completely contradictory? ;) "If it was easy to do they would have done it but it's okay because it can be done in the internal scripting language by a random unpaid non-professional volunteer."

At last someone exactly and completely understands my thoughts and wishes probably others as well on this matter, especially the last paragraph.

Well played that man :)


Ok definitely out this time.


.

Not at all

By easy to do I mean include all of the old IL-2 FMB way of doing things into the new CoD FMB way of doing things

Where as Atrols noted the old IL-2 way consisted to TWO seperate types of missions DF or COOP

Where as Atrols noted the new CoD way consists of ONE type MISSIONS

While 1C was creating this new CoD way they found it either too hard to include a the old IL-2 COOP GUI/MENU/LIST

Or

1C realised it was not necessary to include a old IL-2 COOP GUI/MENU/LIST because they knew it could be done via the C# script methods

Where 1C made the mistake was giving the user too much credit for being intesested enough in COOPs to write the C# code to create the GUI\MENU\LIST

Well some users that is

Just to stay on the ground here, MG never intended to release the game in the state it is.

They had to release, and what is missing are the user friendly interfaces, as there wasn't time to develope them then, and now there are other pressing problems.

So the game can give us all the stuff requested here in the multiplayer mode as there won't be a coop-mode anymore.

As MG doesn't have the resources right now to produce this gui, we can either wait for MG to have the time or we can wait for a ingenious c# programmer to reverse engineer and write it.

Thats it.

Robtek no one said it should be done immediately we are all aware that they released an unfinished product due to reasons that we will probably never truly know but this is irrelevant to this thread we never said we want it tomorrow just that we want it, as long as they inform us that it will be done at some point I will happy.

It seems that if the next patch solves the big problems of the core engine there will be manpower available to get the lesser priority stuff done.

So lets wait for THE PATCH to the beginning of the end of all problems(game related). :D :D :D

The sequel IS this game!

at least if you buy the sequel and it will be mergeabel (highly possible IMO ) with CoD, one will get the engine and GUI improvements. If not, we have to see how they will support the CoD alone . And a BoM alone also , if it will work alone at all.

i cant imagine they want have the same like with PF , one X.XX and one X.XXm patch. perhaps if you will buy BoM, the CoD stuff will be included, so this sequel will be a restart of the series :D

Yup.. the same patern 1C used with IL-2.. Where IL-2 recived like 4+ sequals over 10 years.. Where we had to pay for each sequal.. Where each sequal basically added to (upgraded) the previous version of IL-2

From what I have read I did not get the impression that there would be two stand alone games.. CoD and the Sequal.. that will be able to interact with each other.. For example, be able to join an online game using either one of the two.. Or that the sequal would be an addon to CoD.

Actully that is the impression I got.. based off what was said and the 1C IL-2 track record.. Where each sequal basically replaces the previous version.. That is to say you could still play CoD with other CoD players, must like some people still play IL-2 PF.. Just most made the move to the new version (aka sequal)

That is the impression I got, and I hope that is what they do! Seems most likly based on the 1C IL-2 track record

S! to Grunch for clearing up the thread.

My thoughts:
If you happen to know what SEOW coop is, then you know that the old Il-2 style coop MP GUI is a must.

If you don't know, I really recommend you look it up and get yourself or your squad into one. It's the closest you can get in feeling that you are a part of a really huge battle, where the air combat is just to support the land battle below. (Not meaning to belittle the air war of course :) )

The point:
Having 60+ players joining the server, getting squads briefed, selecting the correct planes can easily take an hour. Even with this GUI, there is lot's of logistics beyond that to get everyone on the server on time, with correct game version etc. If there was no coop GUI, I say the SEOW system just wouldn't be there. The coop GUI allows the organization of large amount of people to start a time critical mission at the same time.

And as said by others, it is also essential tool in squad training sessions for mentioned reasons.

Links to SEOW for anyone interested:
http://wiki-seow-en.swil.fr/index.php/Main_Page
http://www.seowhq.net/

almost every online war in IL2 times was based on the COOP, so.......

You all should realize that coop is history, gone, not there anymore.

Now we have MP, which includes everything that there was in the old "dogfight" and "coop" modes and more.

coop with its limitations because of the old il2 engine dies with the old il2.

SEOW with its limitations because of the old il2 engine dies with the old il2.

There can be something like that (coop and seow) for CoD, but that has to be developed with the limitations and possibilities of CoD in mind.

For that, new gui's are needed which reflect the possibilities of CoD.

Don't carry old limitations and denominations in the future where they have no sense.

Lmao WTH robtek some "dogfights" in il2 had objectives so there is no difference between 1946 multiplayer and cliffs.

Sorry, but you just proofed that you dont know what you are talking about.

Robtek it must really suck to be part of the 8% of ppl that don't know what coop is...

I dont know how you aquired this extensive knowledge about me, but your sources are mistaken. :D

In old il2 a coop meant ai and human players in one mission online, didn't it?

Did i miss something? Enlighten me please. But dont mention the gui, i already wrote we need one. :D

Ah my bad... but clearly you are not "not fussed" as you keep on posting so my source is mistaken but the facts are not ;)

COOP and GUI go hand in hand... yes we can have AI in multiplayer but we don't have the easy to use interface that came with 1946 COOP and hyperlobby therefore we don't currently have it and it needs to be implemented at some point.

But Robtek is right.

There's no dogfight only GUI like some people said. There's just an online game GUI, in wich you can play like a dogfight, like a coop, or like whatever you want.

Would it be easier to some people to play coops with a proper coop GUI? Probably. But right now that can be done with the actual GUI.

And you don't need a coop GUI to make an online war either.

There is no probably about it... and it will be brought back and on that day I COULD come and rub your face in it... but stiff upper lip and all that ;)

Hey i'm ok if they brought back the old coop GUI. I'm just saying that right now it's not essential and you can play a coop without it. Just so you know, the people don't vote yes histerically just cause they think that it's impossible to play a coop without the old GUI, wich is false.

Btw my english doesn't understand your last phrase :mrgreen:

I wonder how these people would feel if there was only CooP and no Dogfight GUI ?

IL2 1946 was only CooP's when it first started out, then the mission encryption come along and so the DF servers grew and out numbered the CooPs
as it was easier to host a single map instead of retrieving one from the cache.
Ross squad used to join my coops then leave as the mission started so they could unpick the mission see what is what and then rehost it them selves :)



CooP offers much more than DF servers that's why all online wars use CooP mode.

If those that fly DF are happy with that then fine but dont tell those that fly CooPs can do so in CoD because its not possible.

If it is make the mission and I will test it, well you cant because the GUI dont exist, no ready room no debriefing room no mission stats when CooP closes.

If you are happy to fly around alone like a headless chicken for hours on end in a DF server map thats fine, but please stop telling us that you can fly a CoP in CoD as it is now.

I would bet a fiver we will see the old il2 coop GUI back before too long...

sorry Naglfar the rub wasn't meant for you ;) but some of the others..

If like some say its possible to play CO-OPs with CLOD...then why after all this time is nobody playing them?

Hands up if you have joined a CO-OP with CLOD?(and not if your Ataros or his mate)

A real CO-OP that you joined via the game lobby.

Anyone?

I can fly a coop in CoD as it is now :grin:

And again, there's no dogfight GUI only. There's a generic online GUI wich allows to play dogfight style, coop style, or whateveryouwant style.

Yeah, there's no ready room and no debriefing room, but that doesn't make it a dogfight if the mission is designed and flown like a cooperative.



Oh ok :mrgreen:



I played a few coops with my squad. But may be we understand different things with the words "real coop"...

Best online experience without any doubt, SEOW's. Period.

now what do they use.......

I agree.

But now is possible to make an online war way better than SEOW, without any old GUI. But of course someone have to do it. There was no SEOW since the beggining of old IL2, right?

If there a form of ready room, so everyone starts at the same time. Otherwise, there's no cohesion to the mission imo.

If this can be done with the scripting and can be easily used by everyone, not just programmers than yes.

Can it, i don't know?

Everyone can start at the same time with the coop script if the planes are on the ground: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=354537

To use it in any mission just copy the .cs file to the mission folder and rename it exactly like the .mis file. Or open the mission in the FMB and copy the script there.

Our squad did actually, organized here:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=27107

BUT... it was just a perversion of a real coop, as the time critical help of a proper GUI was missing. As said above, great deal of cohesion was missing. The joining process is a mess as everybody has to be organized to join the server at exactly at the same time. And that just doesn't work. Nevertheless, it was all fun until CTDing after 15min of flight on the first mission, and about 30min on the second :)

It would've helped somewhat if the planes on the fields would be prefitted with certain weaponry (apparently this is possible?) so you wouldn't have to fiddle the armaments to match mission criteria before hitting 'create'.

What we need now is the old style coop GUI back the way it was, done by the devs OR some script-thingie-wait-until-mission-start-lobby-system by the community, I really don't care how or by whom it's done, but we do need it :)