Why does luthier even bother?
 

I have to wonder what part of 'beta' do these people not understand?

I mean the download clearly says 'beta' in the title.. right?

So I don't think they can say they didn't realize it is a 'beta' patch.. But than again their are people in their 30s trying to sue cigarette companies claiming they didn't realize smoking was bad.. Even though cigarette packages have had warning labels for over 30 years.. So I guess I am not surprised that a few people try to..

I guess I just never realized there were 'so many' of these 'few' types of people.

Here luthier gives us a beta patch to 'test'.. Yet these people act shocked that there is a bug in a beta patch? To the point that some are having a total break down hissy fit and saying they give up..

@ luthier.. I know you meant well..

And I know you thought you might be able to receive some useful feedback by releasing this beta patch to the masses.. The idea being more people beta testings means you will be able to find and fix bugs sooner..

And I know you even went as far as to say in your first post, i.e.

Yet they act as if you said nothing at all.. based on the majority of the responses thus far..

I think you might be better off sticking to the way you have done it in the past.. Just release the beta patch to your smaller select group of testers..

Oh sure that means it will take longer to find bugs because there are less people beta testing..

But when you consider that 'most' of the 'masses' are not even willing to make use of a work around (turn effects to low) to continue beta testing..

You got to ask yourself is it worth the trouble?

Clearly 'most' of the 'masses' here have no idea of what beta means and the purpose behind releasing a beta patch

Sad isn't it..

+1

Agreed, going to fly without effects for the time being since I discovered something else that is rather important to me but have to confirm that it really works.
It seems no more auto take off as flight leader, only tried one mission, but with manual take off the flight recognized me and followed instead of flying along the waypoints.

To me the devs are on the right track and the effects thing will not stay like this, it'll be fixed.

Releasing a beta that locks the game at first explosion????!!!?!?! :o
How does that give you confidence in their competence?
How could it slip through?
If they knew about it then perhaps communicate that to us - their unpaid beta testers.

After the last patch I don't doubt their competence, and I was a huge critic before.

These guys know what they are doing, and it sucks that the game isn't where by all rights it should be, but the development is happening, and in the meantime the game is EXTREMELY enjoyable!

Im happy to wait, but would be even happier if we got an E-7 and Afrika maps in the next patch lol.

Sorry, manual take off with the flight following only works in an escort mission where your "waypoint" are the bombers. In a "normal" fly there and shoot everything down mission they still just follow the waypoints, so autopilot take off, dang it.

Ok, perhaps it's not about their competence as programmers but more about the organization, how they work and set priority. About the allocated resources and how they use them.
Maybe they knew about the explosion bug but wanted us to test other stuff.
Maybe it's a culture thing; "some duct tape will fix it".
I don't know cause I haven't got any information(wish I could say "not enough info").

Either way I've lost confidence that they have the ability to get this game off the ground any time soon.

Hopefully I'll be back after the next official patch praising their skills. Experience says otherwise. :-(
I'm not angry, I'm sad.

They did communicate that to us, maybe you want to read the sticky for this beta patch again.
It is the purpose of a beta patch, which is by it's definition unfinished and experimental, to see how it runs and apart from the effects bug it runs just fine. So they are going to iron this out and release a stable retail patch.

In the meantime roll back to a previous version or turn the effects off.

We could only be upset if this had been the retail patch.

Oh and Ace,
why does Luthier bother?
I said it when I was brand new to the forum and gave it as one reason why, despite all the negativity, I bought the game......because I believe he and the dev team care.
I bought the sim because I wanted to support them taking a concious risk and so far it has payed off for me with many hours of flying fun.
They did not have the start they should have had, but they are working on it, they love what they are doing and they will bring this sim to the state that they as well want it to be in.

All I hear from you before beta patch release is where's the patch, where's the patch like a little girl asking for her cabbage patch........... well here it is so stop bitching you turd herder.

It's the tendency over time. Fix one, introduce two new.
If such an obvious thing as the explosion bug is in the beta (you know there are something called alpha right?) then that is for me a clear indication that something's wrong in the development chain.

Maybe the question should be 'why do we even bother'? Of what value is a beta patch in terms of information gathering when it locks up the sim within seconds (not related to explosions) and one has to kill it with Task Manager....generating no crash dump files whatsoever? It is unplayable, with far worse FPS and no I won't turn down one of the few things that make it enjoyable. Whose fault is that? Ours? FYI, we essentially 'agreed' (for 'agreed' read 'were duped') to being Alpha testers when we bought this, not to mention being conned into buying something that bears no resemblance to what CoD actually is. Most here have done their fair share of testing, (and shown quite remarkable patience). That wasn't the deal....if you remember. ;)

Half a year on, still the 'one step forwards, two back' dance. FYI I have made a truckload of bug reports and tried to help, but it feels like trying to help a CRACKHEAD who pockets the money you gave him for food and clothes and returns to the demon glass pipe. :grin:

It's a p*ss take of Biblical proportion and most people have little enough free time to enjoy themselves as it is. I already have a job, don't need need two. CoD at times is work. I am not a 1c employee, and while I will try to help (and certainly have done) within reason, getting things sorted is in fact their job. Capische?

Cheers. :)

+ 100



Mazex

Well put Orville. I've spent more time testing and tweaking this game than actually enjoying it.
It's more than obvious that 1C do not have their own testers and that they rely on us to do their work. I wouldn't mind being a beta tester but alpha? Nah.
I'm not sure I like this new process where the customers/clients are the alpha testers. Make a parallell with buying a car or any other product if you will.

- "Great. Now the turn indicators work but they're inverted (handle down=right indicator and vv). I love the new iPhone gadget you introduced but now the brakes don't work anymore."

I suggest 1C asks the community for beta testers and pick out 300 or so for a closed beta. Then sets up a closed beta server and give the testers a t-shirt and a mug or something and mention them in the "thank you" text in the game.

the game was alpha when it was released....

and he bothers because we purchased this half finished product...

Have to agree a bit here. The purpose of a patch (correct me if I'm wrong here), be it alpha, beta or whatever is to improve upon earlier release, not make it worse. Stop saying "luthier don't bother, those ingrates don't understand you like we do" because every single person on this forum appreciate the work they do BUT their work leaves us dumbfounded over and over again. 1 step forward, 2 steps back etc.

Also, try to get it in your heads that Luthier isn't releasing patches, he's trying to finish the game! At this pace this game shouldn't have been released before Q4 2012. Of course we moaned and wanted it released ASAP, who wouldn't have wanted it released?! That wasn't the reason they released it though, it was some other reason, most likely lack of dollar reasons.

Anywho, don't point fingers at the community, we are IL-2! Fact is, we are playing an alpha stage game on it's way into beta.

Really, I think Luthier shouldn't bother anymore, its clear this project is well over the heads of the DEv's, give the game to the community, let the real pro's fix it like they did Il2.

Lmao what a load of bs.... Ahahah.

For me the game is running quite well, obviously you can't test it fully until they remove the crash bug.

Tree stop throwing your toys out of the pram.. It's a beta and luthier specifically stated that some system were experiencing problems... I could agree with your toy throwing if this was a proper patch but this is a BETA we are meant to test it.

That said from what I have seen cockpits over saturated and land is back to being too pastel coloured.

S!

Well, Luthier and his team were given a pile of unfinished code done over 6 years, restarted and whatever. I do not envy his task of finishing this product. So this is what we got for now and until Luthier's team get their work done we just have to test and wait.
But fact still is that the game is far from being even remotely ready. Potential, a step to right direction or a beta patch is NOT same as beign ready.
I already shelved the game and went to other games like World Of Tanks, A-10C Warthog etc. and just check the progress of CoD now and then. Maybe in a year or so it is mature enough to actually be what it should have been from the start. Really, I wish the Cod Would be ready and a shining start, but now..choose yourself.

Those complaining about it without considering that is a beta is likely to be those who have not yet accepted the fact that months ago bought a simulator in an alpha state.
The damage has been done at the release, and now the only possible thing we can do is be positive, cooperative and patient.

just my 0.02 eurocents

We are Alpha testing. I vote for 1C to do closed testings instead. Then we wouldn't have this bullshit every beta(read:alpha).

This community testing must be so ineffective. There's no testing protocol or report syntax and 1C gets a shitload of uncomprehensive mails that they have to sort out to find real reoccuring issues that's not related to other stuff.
Not to mention the zillions beta bug threads that soil the forum.

Dolt how else will they be able to test the huge number of different setups that we run...!!!

Hotfix is available.

In answer to the OP,

Because it's his Job.

Gentlemen, even though a beta was released with a "huge" bug, and now a hot fix in place to remedy said bug. We are moving forward and that is what matters. The speed at which the hot fix was released shows that the cause was minor and the repair quick.

It could be much worse, like some games in the past that were released and left as they were, bugs and all with no further development.

I thank the developers for their continued work in this project and I for one will test 100 more betas (bugs and all) to reach a solid and complete game.

We expect their continued support for this game so why should they expect less from us? Yes, I know we paid for the game, that is all the more reason for us to give what we can and give positive support. I can guarantee, people are much more responsive to constructive input than negative reaction.

The patch works fine for me since hot fix, love the sound, love the colors and I do find it running smoother with very little stutter...I have not flown the new beta online for testing yet.

Cheers Mates, S!

Whiskey

@ NedLynch.. @ capt vertigo.. @ mazex.. @ CWMV... @ Flanker35M.. @ Topo.. @ Whiski

Thank you guys for the feedback and letting me know that there are some reasonable people in this forum! People with a realistic view of the world..

You have restored some of my confidence that there are some 'adults' mixed in with the 'masses' S!

@ Vengeanzw.. @ RCAF_FB_Orville.. @ Tvrdi.. @ Tree_UK.. @ Dutch 851

None of your post were worth quoting.. Best to treat them like I would treat a kid in a store who pointing at something on the shelf with his/her eyes full of tears and screaming 'I want I want I want'

Basically ignore them and keep walking.

But I do want to thank you for proving just how spot on my original post is!

I do have to give a special shout out to addman.. Though his post was not as temper tantrum filled as the ones above..

I want to quote something he said that proves that you and yours have no concept of what the word beta means, i.e.

As I said.. no idea what 'beta' means in that he clearly has 'patch' confused with 'beta patch' and 'beta testing'

Your talking about apples and we are talking about oranges. Your lost dude in your defender of the crown crusade. I never whined. Just said the truth. Btw Im enjoying this game now although there still many bugs and a room for optimisation (with pretty strong machine I still need to tone down some settings to have a decent performance).
cheers

Let me guess.. your a smoker too?

whataver makes you happy in your "righteous rant"

I see I have upset you with something I said..

As if I struck a nerve..

Yet your reply seems to have more behind it than just what I said?

As if you feel kind of silly for your inital rant in light of the hot fix being provided just hours later to fix the thing you were whinning about

:grin:

Just the facts, M'am. If they punched you in the chops you'd probably thank them for it and say, 'please, more, harder!' :grin:

No one is angry, hence the proliferation of smilies in the post. Long past that, what precisely in the post was not true at the time of writing? Exactly. Thanks for making the game not crash anymore pal, wooooot! You're my hero! :grin:

PJ Barnum- 'A sucker born every minute'. :grin:

Carry on though, you're a good laugh. :grin:

I see I have upset you with something I said..

As if I struck a nerve..

Yet your reply seems to have more behind it than just what I said?

As if you feel kind of silly for your inital rant in light of the hot fix being provided just hours later to fix the thing you were whinning about

The hotfix was provided fast because TreeUK and other naysayers do the job: complaint about everything. They spot the probblem ASAP!

I don't see any problem at all in beta testing here: we have GREAT human material to test all sort of bugs! Some walk with hands full of stones to throw at first sight of bugs!

I'm not the best guy to do that: i look at the "bright side of life", the naysayers testers not! They do a great job!

They don't need to be "polite", they need to spot bugs!

LoL

ROFL I never whined about that bug...its in beta isnt it? So obviously was to be fixed soon...I WAS unhappy (at least) with alpha stage of the RELEASED game (uplayable for most of us at that time) which is now in beta stage...so we are progressing...you just came late to the party and you have a gun...and you need to "kill" someone..

whataver makes you happy in your "back peddling rant"

S!

Testing a beta is more than throwing insults or using a less friendly tone. I have done testing on some games from IL-2 to Ground Control series and so forth. The devs appreciated bugs that were explained in detail and how to reproduce them. Add to this the system settings etc. and you had to write a quite comprehensive post/mail. That is what we should do here, like the the status of CoD or not. I bet the message goes to Luthier without excessive raging or whining..or whatever you want to call it.

My curiosity rose so I am currently installing CoD from scratch to see what happens with the rig I have in my signature. If not satisfactory or finding something then a report and uninstall for another wait. I am very busy even without CoD ;)

Agreed 100%

tsting and reporting bugs....this is what im doin...(btw I was also a beta tester in various sims including ROF)..but Im also vocal on forum and have the right to do so.... I was the one repossible for the fix of one of the biggest bugs in original IL2. And who is Ace of aces? He is our freshman who just recently registered just to act as "hypnotised die hard fan"....this is theatre thats for sure

whataver makes you happy in your "back peddling rant"

take a pill....gbye

or smoke a cig?

S!

I've seen AoA around for a while in several forums so not a so new guy to IL-2 series I bet ;) But anyways..I think all agree that we could focus more on helping Luthier and his team by providing well compiled information what does not work or could use an improvement rather than insulting each other at every turn and turn threads to a flame fest. After all we ALL want that CoD would be THE sim for years to come as IL-2 was and still is. My .02€..over and out to test.

Bet! :)

What a freaking zoo. I'm sure there is some useful information somewhere in this forum, I just can't find it for all of the pissing and moaning, not the least of which is all the pissing and moaning about the pissing and moaning, then everyone gets there feelings hurt and have to argue about that endlessly. C'mon people, act like adults for five minutes.

We're trying to help a developer fix a mess that was not caused my him here. Otherwise there is no reason to download a beta patch to begin with, much less complain about it.

As for the state of the game on release, that is old, old news. I for one am sick of hearing about it already, we know all about it. Can we just stop burying all of the useful info with sniveling?

I'll never get that two minutes back.......

+1

Last night I emailed Luthier (per his request to all of us) a zipped .cpp file re two PC crashes I experienced with this latest beta, along with my system specs and a description of what I was doing in CoD when the crashes occurred. I'm sure many others did the same. This a.m. we were greeted with a Hotfix patch and I like to think in some way our contributions helped the devs with this quick fix.

And you're right. I've been waiting for Storm of War/Cliffs of Dover as long as anyone. I certainly feel the frustration of having a long-awaited sim released in a broken, unfinished state. But we all want it fixed and for that to happen cooler heads must prevail. Egos and hurt feelings must be set aside and, as a sim community, help the devs in the most effective way possible: use the vast range of our PC machines to run the beta and retail patches to report, in useful detail, what works and what doesn't.

For those who understandably feel that their precious $50 was taken under false pretenses -- you're right; it sucks! But as in life itself, if you want "fair" then go see your mama. Put the sim away and wait for the ultimate fix. But stop clogging these beta threads with whining and snide backbiting. To achieve the goal of a fixed Cliffs of Dover we need forum members who will either take the lead or follow a procedure, but at least get the he11 out of the way.

Bingo!

It was either that, or "Suck it up, Muffin!" LOL

(and, yeah, I'm putting on my flame-retardant suit.......)

Credit where its due, Luthier as managed to get the ACE OF ACES licking his butt, which intrests me more than the game at the moment.

Thanks Tree..

That 5th grade play ground butt licking responce not only confirmed my inital post.. but made me feel young again.. In that I have not heard such banter since the 5th grade! S!

Well the name calling started from your end of the playground, no point wasting my inteligence on a child.

Oh god I wish!

This happened to me in the past when I was part of the outside Beta team for Falcon 4 and also for Flanker. Got a great T-shirt from the Flanker Guys and credit in the published book.

Same here. Followed the instructions for reporting on events and found a pleasant surprise fixing the crashes this morning. Well done guys!

Anything else is a pedantic rant. As AoA said, if you don't know how to Beta test or at least read the instructions for reporting - DON'T DOWNLOAD THE BETA! Save the rest of us from listening to you sitting on the floor, sucking your thumb, wailing and kicking your heels on the tiles. It's so tiring. . . . . .

Sure is fun testing the beta, Id rather be doing this and helping make suggestions than be sat in the dark waiting for the full release

That is the approach everyone should have when downloading any software with the word 'beta' in it!

These 'others' that expect perfection from a 'beta' would do themselves well to avoid anything that has the word 'beta' in it what with the hissy fits temper tantrums they evoke..

Just not healthy for them to get so bug eyed about it.. That and it would save the rest of us from having to sift threw all their rants when looking for useful feedback on the topic

Wow Ace (and gang)......thats a sizzling 12lb 'Irony Steak' with House special 'Silly Sauce' right there. Spamming a forum 'Whining' about 'Whiners' (AKA people expressing an opinion contrary to their own).........Delicious. :grin: With all the 'name calling' and indignant ire of course coming from that end. Give it a rest, peeps. :grin:

People are always going to have views which from time to time will be different from your own *yep, its crazy, I know lol.* That is the whole point of a forum......unless I'm mistaken. Let it be.

Christ. Never mind. :)

Sorry, but you are a NO GO at this station with your cute.. but weak attempt to change the subject/history of this thread

This thread is not a whine about whiners or different opinions (your spin)

This thread is about people, like you, who don't understand what 'beta' means (my point)

Now, I can understand 'why' you would 'try' to change the subject/history of this thread.. what with your silly initial and follow up posts

But, in attempting to do so you only make you and yours look even more silly..

If that is possible?

So, gold star for effort!

But no sale

Ace, I've done more 'beta' testing and found more bugs on many forums than you've probably had hot dinners sunshine, going waaaaaay back and involving any sim you care to mention.

Nowhere did anyone say 'beta should be perfect' (ridiculous) your words, no one else's. I said they should be testable. Self evidently, if not this obviously defeats the point. Again for posterity, nothing I wrote was untrue at the time of writing, suck it down. Since I've been PM'd no less than 4 times by 4 different people (none of whom are on this 'whine' thread you started) warning me not to bother with you (for reasons I won't divulge) I think I'll leave it there. The only person looking daft here is you. You really are a bore, and obviously spoiling for an argument. Trololol. Waste of time, like your pointless thread. :)

The steak was great BTW, could have done with more of your patented silly sauce though. Good stuff. :grin:

Ciao.

but the game was released in alpha stage...and sold as final product.....you dont have arguments...

Based on your initial hissy fit reply it casts doubt on your beta testing experience.. In that typically people with beta testing experience have MORE understanding of what goes into a 'it', NOT LESS! Which your initial post proved you have very little understanding of what goes into 'it'

For example that initial post of your started off with

And the rest of that post only goes on, in summary, with your whining about feeling like an 'alpha' tester and helping a 'crack head' and referring to it all as a p*ss take of biblical proportions

Does that reply sound like someone with a wealth of knowledge and experience in beta testing?

I think most would agree it does not

SAVVY?

Or, put in your words, from that 1st post of yours

Capische?

It was and is testable.. Only thing you had to do was put a little effort into reading the posts by others that found a work around so they could continue to keep testing.. You know the things good beta testers do.

Never said it was un-true! Just pointed out that complaining about find a bug in a beta patch is like

Complaining about getting wet after jumping into a pool
Complaining about getting burnt after running into a burning building
Complaining about getting sun burnt after laying on the beach all day
Complaining about getting shot after pointing a gun at your head and pulling the trigger
Complaining about getting laid after ... mmmmm on 2nd thought clearly that one does not apply to you

As in all these results should be 'expected' from these actions

Which is what you did in your initial hissy fit tantrum filled post

Promise?

This means so much to me from the guy who said beta testing CoD is equivalent to helping a crack head

Ok.. ok.. ok. I give you two gold stars

Feel better now?

Too funny.. you don't even know what beta means and now your trying to claim that your the one that determines what is beta and what is alpha?

Please

Baaaaaaaaaa

Personally I'm very happy they sold me an "alpha" with the prospect of the sim being finished rather than cancelling the project. If they told us it was an "alpha" or "beta" there wouldn't have been enough copies sold to finance further work.

The statement that the community fixing the devs shody work is a joke as we would have nothing to fix if it weren't for the developers doing most of the work. I suppose we could wait for the community to build a far superior product from scratch, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. Although the developers of the IL-2 series were community members who thought they could build a superior product to what was on the market and succeeded. Yet the so called community still turns on them with a vengence.

I do think those types of business practices are deceptive to say the least, whatever the product might be. While it might accomplish the short term goal of continued development, it might well sacrifice long term repeat sales. Too many feel burned by this release to the point that they may or may not be back. Hopefully those of us who stick will be sufficient enough in numbers to ensure more releases. I would think Luthier knows that well enough to avoid any more public relation disasters.

The early release accomplished the "long term goal", now we have a strong possibility of the series continuing for years. If it wasn't released as is, it was finito, done, dead, there was no more development funds available to finish the project. Unless you believe they released the sim unfinished just to piss everyone off.

Further public relation disasters should be avoided now that the game engine is basically working, and you only need to flesh out the new theaters. BUT it will depend on how long it takes to fix the bugs and add missing features, before they can work full tilt on the new theaters. That said new features can still be added to COD as they release the new theaters, the same way they developed the original IL-2 series.

Not what I said. I said what they did was deceptive. As in they knowingly lied to those of us who supported them for years that CoD was running well on a less than state of the art computer. If you choose not to remember those pre-release statements that's fine. For me, I prefer to take a more balanced approach. I'm still hoping CoD lives up to it's potential while keeping in mind what was claimed and soon proven to be BS. I'll be supportive, not blind.

What type of business practices?

Keep in mind that Chivas, as sensible and as reasonable and as adult of a view he has on this, which I and many others share

Does not work for 1C, nor does he have any proof that 1C intentionally released a 'alpha' let alone 'beta' product.

Which is not to say they didn't, only that I know of no contractual agreements that 1C failed to provide to us the users. Put another way, what advertisement on the package or advertisement at the steam download did CoD not provide?

I know we were 'told' (not to be confused with promised) of many things over the past 6 years of CoD development that were 'intended' to be in the initial release, but didn't end up in the initial release.. But can 'anyone' point to anything advertised on the box or at the STEAM download that turned out not to be in the game?

Note I am honestly asking here!

And I am talking real things, not advertisements like 'best flight model' or best 'AI' which is subjective and thus debatable.

I am talking about real things (read false advertisement) like say, 20 flyable aircraft when in fact only 18 are flyable. Things like that!

Ill bet there are none, because if there were, it would be a simple mater for these poor but hurt smacktards to get their money back! And since they are still here instead of spending their money on some other game like Quake, I think we all (read adults) can agree that buggie does not equate false advertisement

As Chivas said, if they had told people the game wasn't working at release (some might say broken), would people have purchased it? Instead it seems that misinformation was put out that the game was running on a less than top of the line computer just before CoD's initial release to generate sales I would assume. There was genuine excitement about that on the UBI forum only to be ruined by less than glowing user reports. I find that deceptive. I said nothing about false advertising. I understand what buggy is. I understand all features previously mentioned over CoDs development lifetime might not make the initial release. What I don't understand is claiming boldly that a product works acceptably well when clearly it didn't. That is deception, if not an outright lie. More than that it was and is disappointing considering the relationship we previously had with the Il2 team.

Too much talking. I love this "alpha", "beta", "totally porked sim" since day one, and now...

[youtube]Ch2bf-QOVCI[/youtube]

EVEN MORE!

My words... +1 :D

Me Too.
My glass is half full and filling nicely at least now we have a decent server (Big thanks to the ATAG team) North Africa and Barbarossa or even Circus Planeset (Channel 41-42) would be a welcome addition.

That video is worth a thousand words!!!!!

Mostof us enjoy receiving the patches. It is a good reassurance things are happening, and hopefully improving.

I look at the names of contributors to this thread. It's a fact, most of you have been vehement complainers at various times. Timely information feeds the lions is my take on it.

So yeah, bring on beta and patches I'm please to DL every one of them and give them a go.

Happy Sunday to all.

+1

Happy Sunday to you, too! :D

Well one mans broken is another mans working

The word broken is very subjective and debatable

On one end of the scale some would define broken as the game does not even run/start
On the other end of the scale some would define broken as the color of the dash board is 'not correct'

So with that in mind, can you name one, or more, things that you consider to be broken?

Just so we know where you fall on that scale

Because I personally don't see anything I would call broken that would be consider a reason to not release the game.. Even in it's initial version release it was very playable.. As LoBiSoMeM, Fliegenpilz, Momod, Snapper, and nearmiss stated in their reply post yours.

As noted the term 'broken' means different things to different people, and as I suspected in my previous post, no one will be able to point to a 'real thing' that is missing from the game that was listed on the box. Thus 1C is NOT guilty of deceptive business practices' IMHO.

Because god knows if they were, one of these but hurt smacktards would have already started a class action suit against 1C/ubi listing said item. The fact that there is no such thing only proves what I already stated, buggie software does not equate to false advertisement.

Another 'non real thing' example

For those whos game does run fine they do not belive misinformation was put out
For those whos game does not run fine they belive misinformation was put out

But neither can point to something that says it is guaranteed to run fine on 'their' PC

What with all the verity in PCs these days only a unrealistic person would expect game software to run perfect on all PCs upon it initial release. Thus once again 1C is NOT guilty of deceptive business practices' IMHO.

Which is true of most if not all new games

People tend to get a little excited.. and even hyper excited to the point that no release will meet their expectations! You know these types of people, they are the ones that expect a 'beta' patch to be perfect and free of bugs. The types that live and operate in a very unrealistic view of the world and therefore will never be satisfied.

Well that is your opinion

But know that you have pointed to no 'real thing' IMHO, just subjective and debatable things. Case in point, look at all the people who posted after your last post that consider the game to be very playable as is. Granted there are some people is this world that will be happy staring at the blue screen of death, but I don't think any of those people that posted after you did those extreme types. They find a lot of value in the game as is. So knowing that some people are happy with it and some people are unhappy with it tells you that this is not deception on 1Cs part.. More different expectations on the users part! Read as different opinions on what the definition of broken/deceptive means, not some conspiracy by 1C.

That is good to hear!

That is easy to understand onces you stop and consider the verity in PC

Disagree 100%

That cuts both ways!

1C could say the same about the user.. What with 1C's history of support and providing free upgrades I think 1C must be kind of surprise at the response it is getting from 'some' of these sold called users they thought they had a relationship with.

Beta testing is messy, often frustrating, almost always tedious work that often leads to me just shutting the computer down (if the game test in question didn't do it for me...) and taking a break.

Sure it has it's rewarding moments, like seeing stuff before the general community if it's a closed beta, or knowing that you helped in some small way to make the title in question better for everyone. However, mostly its boring, repetitive work with lots of note taking and usually done alone.

In essence it's not fun, and it's not for everyone.

So rather than come in here and make wind up posts about the state of how the game was released, or how the BETA crashed your system, why not just go back to the standard release version, fly the sim as it is and wait for those who can handle beta testing to do their work so you can play.

That alone would go a long way towards making things better for us all, and create a more civil environment on this now going down in flames forum.

I dunno which category I fall into but I've been a contributor to this thread and I've been complaining. But I stopped when they released the hotfix. Now I'm enjoying and beta testing this sim like everyone else. It's a masterpiece.
However, I'm still stunned how they could miss the so obvious explosion bug. Only reason I can see is that they do not really test the game (just the parts they've been working on) prior to releasing a beta thus using us as their testers. Some are ok with that and other not so much. But that's what we got now so I'm suckin it.
EDIT: Just read ElAurens post and want to say that releasing a public beta and then assume that it'll work like a closed beta is not possible. It's like putting a bucket of cakemix infront of your kid and tell him not to eat anything yet cause "it's not done".
Sorry, as long as it's public I'll download it and will make my voice heard in this forum.
But like I said earlier, I vote for a closed beta.

I've got two issues with CloD. Number one is that the optimization hasn't been done yet. On the contrary framerate are even worse than earlier.
My fps is around 30 now when it use to be close to 40. I won't lower any more settings so optimization is my main interest right now.

Second, all the small details that are wrong, like inverted controls, weird colors, spelling errors, sucky campaign, missing AI comms, non-intuitive menues, defuncked loadouts, etc is a sign of a programming culture that I'm not use to or perhaps lack of resources (programmers).

I think it's important to understand that most if not all of us in here are great fans of the IL-2 series and we all want CloD to "be all it can be". I think alot of the complaining springs from frustration and eagerness.

So you complain about how we can dare to raise critics on a beta patch because you think we don't understand the word "beta"? Well the word "patch" is also inside this, dear friends!
And patch in my opinion means that an existing thing is made better.
I just don't understand why formerly working things need to be destroyed for placing new features - this is just not what I expect to be a "patch" - beta or not. Maybe we just need a new name for it. :-) midnight try-out or something like that...

And that, liebe Zwiebacksäge, tells us exactly that you haven't understood the "beta"-thingy.

I see your point. It's a thing that I stated long time ago.

Here we are not testing a "patch". We are testing a new version of the game.

So we should not call it "Beta-Patch" but "CoD Version X - Beta".

When the game will be finished (speaking about contents) then we'll be provided with real patches.


Look at the ugly thing called "Red Orchestra 2": the game is complete but is a mess (so many bugs!) and I'm really mad at it, because without the bugs it would be enjoyable. This game needs patches.

Instead I don't care about CoD's bugs since IMO it's still a unplayable game (and infact I'm not actually playing with it). This game needs to be finished.

In this case the workd BETA supercedes the word patch.

And as some of us suspected, most of you do not understand this.

:grin:

Correct!

Just replace 'raise critics on' with 'whine about finding a bug in' and you will be 100% correct!

So?

In your opinion, but clearly not everyone opinion.

Because you clearly do not understand the interactions of software changes.. As in how a fix hear can sometimes break something there, or how a coding mistake itself can break something. They are only human, hence the whole concept behind 'beta' testing

Nope, just need people understand the meaning of the current word 'beta' in that it means try-out

+1

rotfl

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet

Bingo!

Even if some or may be most of you do not agree with me, I can't understand what's the reason to get insulting? The effort my small post is disassembled just looks like someone's paying you money for it instead of investing it into proper software development...

Don't worry about it mate, we all get frustrated with the game at times.. some people have made it their mission to belittle anyone who doesn't have the same view as themselves.. it's the norm in just about any forum you care to visit.
Get them face to face for a conversation on the same subject and they wouldn't say things in quite the same way I assure you.

Most

Insulting?

Now your claiming it is conspiracy theory?

True

Nope, it has nothing to do with a difference in views/opinions

It has everything to do with the definition of the word 'beta' and the responsibilities that come with testing beta software

Maybe for some, but at 6'4" at 240lbs I have never had any problem telling anyone what I think face to face

And there you have it,.. I took on people of the same stature during P company milling.. .. didn't stop me reminding them size and bulk isn't everything when I gave them a flippin good pasting.. They looked a little different after.. lol!

This is why we 'make waves'. This is why we care. Violently, and if need be, in extremis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHh8isGtB6w

Thy will be done. :D

don't be too sure that most of the people agree in boot-licking the devs for every single feature they give us half a year after paying for it.
and i'm not claiming anything I just wish the devs are working as intense on the game as you cry about critic.

Boot Licking?

So let me see if I understand you correctly..

You didn't understand the meaning of word 'beta'..

And the community pointed that out to you in their reply back to you..

Your claiming that those who tried to help 'you' are part of some sort of 1C conspiracy and/or boot lickers?

Is that what you want us to belive?

Instead of just admitting you didn't understand the meaning of the word 'beta'

Implying or claiming.. take your pick

Yawn

The fact is that a patch is usually indicative of progress; improving what is already tangible and playable. In this case, as far as development goes, the team are using this forum as their testing area, and with this in mind, we can't expect progress at any stages. Certainly we can expect to see the game expanded, but whether this expansion is of a high standard is questionable.
Take the landscape colours: Beta 1 was a brilliant step to a fairly accurate representation of England, and Beta 2 is completely reactionary. That is not progress. Is it a patch? The change carries the word patch, but it's not an improvement. And the word patch is usually metaphorical for fixing something.
The lighting has been 'patched', the sounds patched. The cockpits? Well, Beta 1 degraded perfect work, and Beta 2 has pretty much ruined it.

But wait! The word Beta solves everything :rolleyes: No, it doesn't. Issues are expected with development, a patch won't always improve the game, a Beta patch even more so, and both may throw up unexpeted problems; but at no stage is it expected that a patch will undo brilliant work. Beta or no beta, the title for that kind of 'destruction' is irrelevent. And my post can be deconstructed as many times by Aces-of-Aces, his work will be irrelevent to the fundamentals of what a Beta is. If we are viewing the Beta as a testing area for changes, then yes, it could be applied here, but is that the case? Has Luthier stated that they are trying out some new colours, and asked us what we think? Has he asked people who actually live in Blighty to post their constructive opinions, or asked the experts among us like fruitbat? No, he hasn't. In this case, this is a change made. For someone who views the change as improvement, it may be viewed as a patch, but as someone who has flown over England many times, as far as terrain colours go this is a major step backwards. Not a patch. And don't even get me started about the cockpits. Is removing the beautiful reflections in the gauges patching the game? God no! Even at beta stage, one would expect a 'patch' to add to the game. Not take away!

Enough from me, just my 2P. We are testing Beta software, and there-in lies why some will post their truthful opinion: to see the game actually improved.



A few members...hardly the community, unless we really are being narrow minded here?