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Post made by Jason at Sim HQ
For those that were/are still under the belief that CLOD was financed by Ubisoft then read this below, especially Chivas who as been on my case about this for a long time.
Originally Posted By: 777 Studios - Jason I'm sorry, but I need to say something because your comments are not correct. 1.) Luthier is a long-time friend of mine and you are smearing him with no proof or knowledge of what really happened that caused the less than stellar release of CLOD. Oleg didn't hand Luthier anything. Luthier was asked by 1C to try to finish the project after Oleg was, depending who you talk to, relieved of duty by 1C or he quit 1C. You make the call. Luthier is making the best of a bad situation and he is a good guy and from what I can tell a good manager. My point is you can't blame him for the release or bad decisions that were forced upon him by others. He was given 12 months to correct 6 years of bad decisions made by others. A good analogy is blaming me for every decision made regarding ROF before my company took over. Coming from someone who had to take over a not so great situation I know what he is going through. 2.) Again, you see to blame Ubi for all this. Why don't you ask 1C if $8 million and 7 years was enough time and money for a team to eventually be held accountable for there work and produce a product? Ubi is not quite the monster they are being portrayed as. Again, see my comments about Oleg's departure. Only Duke Nukem' can have a never ending dev cycle and hell even that got released eventually. Bringing Oleg back isn't going to solve anything. 1C loves when you blame Ubi. 1C was the day to day manager and owners of IL-2 franchise, not to the mention the primary funding source so why aren't they held accountable? Some of you hold Oleg and 1C up like some sort of gods and people who can do no wrong which is foolish. I'm not going to say anymore, but what you've said about Luthier isn't fair to him. There is no need to be an Oleg or 1C apologist. Jason |
that broke my buble.
im trully sad now :( |
That's interesting, I thought that OM might have been the problem for a while.
I just got the feeling that he was too set in his ways. The market moved on and I always found Oleg's 'my way or the highway' attitude a little bit lofty. Luthier has seemed much more 'current' and aware of what's expected in 2011. I got the feeling from some of his posts that he was trying to drag the sim into the 21st century, he knows what the people here want more than anyone. I think he wants the same. If it's true then I feel for him, there's nothing worse than having to clean up someone else's s**t. I hope he succeeds. |
I never blamed Ubi for that in the first place, except maybe for the decision to add steam into the mix. It takes a very limited understanding of the IT business to not blame programming errors on the programming people...
Besides that: Luthier and his team may have limited responsibility on things up to and including release, but what about the time from release until now? |
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If what Jason says is true.. than the only hope for CoD getting finished is if they switch to a RoF model of pay for planes (additional content).. In that I don't see ubi tossing anymore $ down this hole without some way of recouping their investment.. Based on the not so stellar release of CoD thus far I 'assume' they have not got close to recouping the 8million |
Thanks for re-posting this information from Jason on this Forum Tree.
If 1C had allowed the COD situation to be posted some time ago and its reasons for releasing the game prematurely, there no doubt would have been a lot more understanding given to the problems the development team were facing . IC should post an apology here,not only to its customers but to the COD team for the grief they have caused them. I dont` expect they have the Balls to though. |
Reminds me Apple in 1985 all this drama...
Much talking and little info. I like the sim potential and good game engine and content, but all this "business" crap is really anoying... Just optimize more the graphics engine, solve remaining bugs and give us a decent sound engine, stable MP and after work in new titles and the dynamic weather. And give us DECENT week updates, without lies and crap. Simple as that. Be professionals. Be men, not children. |
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In a strange way it is reasuring. From my impression on the RoF forum Jason seems to be someone you can believe.....he is also the one getting po'ed real fast about whiner threads, while he knew they were working hard on the sim.
So in a way this is good news if Jason talks so positively about Luthier, give the team time and they will make this into a stellar sim. What is that about the money?.....hmmm, sure my poll was just a stupid hoax, right? After so many years and then less than stellar sales you just have to have an inkling that they can't be doing so great moneywise. Nah, not going to say it, was going to say something about people trying to run this sim on their 4 year old compaq and then complain, but I won't. Let's hope Luthier and the team keep going on strong. |
So does this mean that Tree is going to stop calling Luthier a liar and throwing dirt on every thing he or the development team does?
Thanks Jason! |
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When Luthier will see his business reputation in danger, he or some good friend of him will spit out all the truth. At least, his truth.
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Seemed pretty clear to me for some time that Oleg was either pushed or shoved and that Luthier, bless him, took on the rest and a release schedule. I think it's also clear that he's guilty of 'massaging' the product's capabilities since then, but I also think Luthier's fundamentally got the sim's best interests in mind. He's just got alot on his plate at the moment and is, perhaps, not seeing the woods of the trees when it comes to customer relations.
I haven't played CloD in weeks, but I dare say I will when it's patched. |
Brilliant. Now 1C will fire Luthier for discussing and disclosing confidential company information to a competing developer and then having that information subsquently posted all over the internet. Maybe 1C, you need to hire Santa Claus to get you out of this CLoDy mess? In any event, it’s time to consult your lawyers.
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And I dont think it is HIS business.Its a job he has to do .He has a budget and a time frame. His reputation is not at stake as long as he does a good job within those parameters... Giving us some news or updates has no impact on him either. And whatever we say in forums has no impact at all on his professionnal level. Its a small world out there...Look whos doing the sound FX now for CLOD. What we really dont know is who is setting the quality level and to what expectations...Who will decide when the game is " completed" . What is the quality level they are aiming at ....Who pulls the strings ? I dont expect any news soon. IMHO next move will be the release of the final "original" version. Somebody:confused: will decide if the support will go on to the point of integrating those clouds, weather f/x and so on that Oleg showed us...years ago ! Salute ! |
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Hmm I thought this was the case anyway??! the only thing I read differently to my thought was Oleg maybe being asked to leave..
Nothing really changes, I do honestly think this sim will eventually go down the DLC route and tbh I'd be up for that, anything to keep it going and to keep the funds coming in. Alot of sims and games have tried and tested that route and it works so why wouldn't you do it? Again my gripe right now is the lack of communication but that's easy for me to say and I do also understand why they choose not to. I think the patch isn't far away and will fix a lot of the problem were seeing performance, Gfx and sound wise...content should come in the form of DLC, it's the only way IMO to keep this sim progressing, and obviously with the help of the modders which then brings me to the VAC situation....that is a must have! and it needs to work well before it tears the community in half as it did with IL2 when mods arrived. |
Seeing someone who took over another project that was down in the dumps during release and turned it around speak highly of Luthier, it pretty much solidifies my belief that Luthier is in it for the long haul and has the skills needed.
It also gives us something nice to quote for the future. It seems to me that in an attempt to take a jab at Chivas in their old argument about the whole Ubisoft matter, Tree has given everyone else who would wish to confront his speculation all the ammunition they'll ever need for the foreseeable future. Pretty unexpected i should say, i'm genuinely confused. :confused: |
So, when Oleg was present at the lunch of CoD in Moscow, he was there but he already left 1C. I think we need to give Ilya our apologizes and give him our best support to go ahead with the project, we need just to turn the page.
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Well it proves that when I posted Oleg had gone (during development) that I was right on target, It also shows of the deception all were involved in to make us believe that Oleg was still captain of the ship, even down to telling us that Oleg's son was really ill so Oleg couldn't post. It proves that Ubi were not financing the project from the word go (lol @ Chivas). Other than that, everything is the same, we still need communication.
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Luthier took over a year before the release of CLOD and since then CLOD has still been a mess. We may know more about it now but it doesn't change what's happened, the development decisions have still been questionable IMO and the release was handled very badly and pretty shambolic. Since the release the communication has been terrible and the patches so far have been mere fluffing with the core of the sim is still unchanged and buggy as hell. Music update anyone? Plus this new info doesn't change what Tree was saying at all, in fact it proves quite alot of it was spot on. We were being fobbed off alot of the time, Oleg was still posting updates and showing his face at shows but its clear now it was just keep people believing he was still the man in charge. The reason behide it may now be more open but it doesn't change anything. Luthier is trying his best im sure, but im still not convinced. |
8 million???
With just 1 milliony - in Italy (my country) - you can hire 10 experienced researcher for at least 5 years of works! :grin: I'm joking (ehm... not to much!;)), but my impression is that budget was enough for a complete game... |
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C'mon on mate, how much more proof do you need, you have belittled me all this time and you were wrong, I dont expect an apology but it would show your made of the right stuff. |
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8 mill and they "couldn't afford the costs of getting real sound samples"
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Oh yeah, I forgot about context!
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WHO CARES!!!!! Jesus. Conspiracy theory's, Facts, so bloody well WHAT! Why do people have to go digging this crap up? Haven't you got better things to do?
Go spend time with the missus, go for a walk etc? And by posting this crap, what do you think it is going to do? Bring the patch quicker? Or better yet A HUGE APOLOGY TO THE COMMUNITY? Like that will happen LMFAO! Head outta the ass i say. And move along. For once I'd love to come to these forums with out all this sludge crap posts. |
Hi chaps, not sure what the problem was there Havoc, if anything Tree looks like he is happy to have found truth behind his critisim from someone on the 'inside' track?
Anyway, if what Jason says is correct I think Luthier really does need some room to work on bringing the Sim through the Flak it has taken. Although I don't want to see any paid for content until the Simulation they released is at-least near perfect (what everyone initially pad for), if Luthier does take a lesson from Jason and his community interaction it would be a major step forward in calming much criticism. I think there is a chance of a little sympathy for him when you see what he has had to do (fixing 6-years of mis-direction in 1-year), but seriously, I am as frustrated about the realease as many others, but for now I'll wait and see what happens with the next patch and see if it looks like the direction of patching under Luthier's captaincy appears to be heading in the right direction? Let's face it...it really can't get much worse! Cheers, MP |
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On the other hand, being a moderator doesn't exclude someone from being a regular poster too and expressing personal opinion, that's why colored text is used when moderating to distinguish between the two, when i'm just typing like this i'm simply taking part in the discussion like everyone else. I truly didn't expect that kind of post from the OP. In any case don't worry, it's my "once per month/every few weeks" venting mechanism :-P Other than that i don't really care for the score keeping, it just happened to bring forth a bit of interesting information from another source. |
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P.S. I'm still a whiner, not a fanboy... :) |
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Im hoping the next patch will sort out COD and bring it up to a release condition sim. then its a clean slate from me. |
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jason's post has to be seen for what it is, he is somebody who (since recently) does have a commercial interest in the CoD project and he is in that context minimizing blame for luthier while dancing on oleg's grave and shifting all the blame to oleg (while oleg isnt present to defend himself, great sign of character there jason) what is new (to me at least, and i have been out of the loop a bit while waiting for a decent fix/update to start using CoD), is the 8 million dollar CoD project funding figure over the 7 years. the rest of what jason says is entirely his spin on facts that are incomplete and open to interpretation. for example, jason refers to luthier being handed the unfinished project 1 yr before release, which takes us to the point in mid 2009 when oleg was still posting here and him stating he had a fixed release date of "the anniversary of BoB" (which would have meant november 2010, and oleg 6 months before that date realizing it simply could not be done). the project then slipped pasted this nov/dec 2010 date and was then released early in 2011 (you must remember some of those dates, its when you kept weaseling out of puting your money where your mouth was ). so when ubi (and/or 1c) put their foot down and said "no more delays, you have 1 yr and then its out the door", how did oleg react ? that is the real question. (its a minor issue whether oleg by then was still 5 days per week in the office managing it, or had taken on an additional part time positions with some other company as a consultant, since he by then was only macro managing the CoD project itself). given olegs very good track record (in game creation and project management) he likely would have known that this forced early release date wasnt realistic, so did he tell them "either i do it right and i need more time", or if they tried to then force his hand "you do it without me" ? likely some years will go by before we find out, but that is much more likely then jason's recent spin story. another piece of the puzzle we are missing is what exactly happened mid development that caused the lost 2 or 3 years which became the Achilles heel in this whole CoD project ? time wise this is the period we know oleg fired some people, or some left on their own (taking part of the code ?) and the RoF project was started. are all those facts linked, its all speculation at this stage, but those missing years caused the whole delay mess that landed us where we are now. secondly, with luthier being oleg's trusted sidekick during il2 development (since pacific fighters or even earlier ?) and with the 2 being close friends, AND with luthier being called away from his own project (korea) to help finish CoD a couple of years ago....... with oleg suddenly leaving, luthier would have been about the only logical person the project could have been transferred to (inside their existing team). now the question that arises is, knowing the various good skills and contributions luthier has made to the il2 series, did/does luthier have the project management skills to pull of what oleg knew could not be done to oleg's exacting levels of quality ? luthier took on an unthankful task to try and finish it, and tried to do so under very difficult circumstances no doubt, but, and how can i say this gently.... he didn not success, its a giant mess. so nothing new has been provided in that simhq thread that lowers my opinion of Oleg, if anything it only lowers my opinion of jason with his obvious spinning to direct attention away from his own commercial interests (without giving solid facts that can be verified with the people that matter). And no that doesn’t make Jason the anti-christ either, it just means I take what he posts with a decent serve of salt and I see it for what it is i do wish luthier well in trying to finish the project (he is our only hope, failing oleg coming back to pitch in), and whatever positive input that can be given him should be provided, but it doesnt remove our frustration (as customers and long term fans who had very high hopes for this project) |
What has happened has happened...no use in dwelling on the past. The future of Clod is the only thing I'm interested in.
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have a nice day buddy. |
We should quit with CoD and this forum till Christmas, and give him a chance to complete the game, or at least the beta.
Asking for a new patch every week doesn't help Luthier and this community. CoD need more than some patches. |
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Here we go with the I told you so. Pathetic, backhanded, self justification. |
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as you well remember, after you repeatedly posting negative pessimistic release date forecasts for years, you made the mistake of actually stating a specific date 1 year into the future, at which point you were called out on it by me to put your money where your mouth was (easy to see, its in the forum records) you know, thats when your spine turned to jelly, and you slithered away babeling some meaningless banter to try and distract from the fact you couldnt standup when it was time to be counted even funnier is that you behaved repeatedly in the same manner in this forum, and that the last time you were called out on it your forecast was "not before august 2011" so save your excrement fixated meaningless banter for your spotty faced chums ps: maybe bring in one of your alt nicks to make a meaningless post pretending to agree with yourself, some newbies here havnt seen the whole tree-show yet :) oh, no offence of course, all in good jest, but all true nevertheless |
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Oleg has posted an incredible amount of pics, and people here said "Hoooooo, wonderfull!!!!" ecc. ecc. ecc.. We know it. The release has been a disaster, and CoD a fiasco because is no more than a bad alpha, full bugged and a placeholder itself. Now, again, we ask for development update. Do we deserve it? No.........to many fanboys here. |
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Ok, let me try and defuse this.
The initial post by zapatista has some interesting points, minus the effort of provoking Tree. It's been a civil thread with some interesting information and speculation that hasn't devolved into a flamewar thus far. Please, let's keep it this way guys. I know it might be hard for you two to play nice after your past encounters but come on...i wouldn't want to have to move posts to the arguments thread when it's been nice and cozy so far :grin: Tree: You're on two out of three warnings mate, i know it's the slip of the tongue and use of idioms sometimes but try to contain profanity somewhat, there are minors on the board and people report posts for stuff like that. I talk that way among friends in the bar too, but here's a public forum so i think it best to try and step lightly in certain matters. Zap: You made a pretty good post giving your side of the story, no need to stir up trouble and reduce your well-put post to flamebait. I don't want to have to move posts, serve warnings or ban anyone because it's my belief that anyone can contribute something useful if being on the right mindset. Let's just play nice. See, i didn't even break out the red text for this, this is how calm this thread has been thus far :-P |
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I wonder how close they are to breaking even? I got two copies, the collectors edition and in a rush of blood the steam download (Thinking it would get to me quicker- The Collectors edition turned up first so my second copy was passed on to my brother. |
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seeing the content of some of tree's posts sometimes just awakens the instinct of the toreador walking past the arena |
It doesnt really matter now who was right, it makes for a pretty sad state of affairs. All it really leaves me with is "what could of been". :(
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$8 Million.
What can you say. Rock on Oleg. |
I have an idea. How about instead of going on and on with this nonsense, we all go online in Syndicate and shoot and blow up stuf?
It feels a lot better to park a 110 behind a Wellington and pound away until it falls to pieces, or bomb some poor sod warming up his Spitfire, and then run like hell with all his budies chewing on your rudder, than throwing all this mud across the forum. A lot better terapy for all this anger. You at least do something fun with it. |
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Though its changed to ATAG. Its hard to see what people are complaining about when your warming up your Merlin and the bombs start going off around you. Cheers! |
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good luck |
Well I've got sound and no stutters and I think Il2 looks like a POS so il be there.. :)
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We'll probably never know, but it does all make a horrible sort of sense.
In software it's a tradition that when someone is fired, they are told to clear their desk and leave the premises immediately. If they did that to Oleg, then they would assume, incorrectly I'm sure, that anything he touched, could be a logic bomb. So, any code on Oleg's work computer would be out of bounds. Which explains the mess, if Oleg and only Oleg was compiling the final builds, then suddenly all of the work is broken up, nobody has a build of the current software, all there is is what other people were working on at the time, and they are bits of a jigsaw puzzle with the body of the puzzle removed. I suppose it's possible to do that, and still demand that Oleg appear in public to be working for the firm, why I can't really see, but it could be done. The guy following on would be in a pickle, having to pick up the pieces and try to remake the jigsaw. It wouldn't be Oleg's fault (except not finishing quick enough that it didn't happen), it wouldn't be Luthier's fault, it would almost not be the money men's fault, except the paranoia that didn't allow Oleg's work to be included. It is just a guess, however it looks to me like as plausible an explanation for where we are now as we are going to get. :-? |
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Im sorry, but it sounds like u think 8 million during 7 years is a lot? Its freeking peanuts in this genre (game development). |
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Crysis back in 2008 cost $22 million Grand Turismo 5 cost around $60 million Modern Warfare 2 was nearly $50 million Halo 3 (development cost only) was $30 million Grand Theft Auto 4 was around $100 million Yep, $8 million is really not a lot at all. |
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Oleg saying to Medvedev during CloD exhibiton/presenation :
Dmitry , only two weeks !! be sure ! :lol: Absolutely priceless picture . http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/a...00b47079f8.jpg S! HG :lol: |
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As it is, this data can be very misleading.. For example, a bigger software team can do more in less amount of time. So for this data to really be useful you would have to take into account how many worked on it and how long it took to develop those 'games' you listed. Ill bet that none of them took 6 years like CoD has. Also note that and a lot of those games are spending a lot of money 'creating' worlds that don't exist, the neat thing about WWII flight sims is they only have to worry about 'copying' a world that already exists. ;) And as you noted marketing is included in those numbers, marketing can be a very big chunk of the pie! With that in mind, when I look at this data, I see it as 'proof' of how small the flight sim market is in the rest of the gaming world, and not much else. |
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well on the other hand, Cod supossedly has an engine made from scratch. Wich reduces de costs since buying an engine like unreal or frostbite does cost millions of dollars |
i believe the next patch
will show us the real mood of development lets hope that they will be able to finished the project and make us all happy;-) |
Just seems like a bad situation.
I bought this sim on day 1, and have barely touched it since. I knew it would be like that, and the very reason I did it was to finance the current developers in the hope that at some point down the track they could turn this mess into the game it was meant to be. I've felt sorry for the developers since release. Obviously nobody in their right mind releases a game in such an incomplete state, so there were obviously major factors beyond their control at play. If you feel bitter about the situation, your purchase or whatnot.... take a chill pill, break for a year, come back and see if the sim is in a state that validates your time then. |
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Well, BF III only been at it for 5 years (and counting). As for "creating a world that already exists", as far as i know creating for ex a desert with a painted, static background couldn't be that much of a chore for a massive staff with a budget in the hundreds of millions. My point? Maby people should think just for a sec what's being created with a budget that wouldn`t even unlock the office door to the bigger development teams. Its true they sell a lot more copies, but in the end they develop a game to, in equal time but with a much bigger budget. Does it mean it looks a hundred million times better? No it doesnt. Does it mean the CoD team is taking way to much time getting the game finished, with a shoe string budget? No it doesnt. I would go as far as saying u would be hard pressed to find a genre (flight sim) thats more complicated in terms of physics, DM etc etc. Looking at it that way id say its pretty amazing what they can achieve for a "meesly" 8 million. (if that is in fact the true budget). Something tells me RoF is/was in a simillar situation so im not just talking about CoD here. |
Like I said.. this data can be 'looked at' in different ways to prove different things..
The trick is to realise your just guessing at it and that your guess is not proof |
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I don't want to join into this useless debate who was responsible of which development decision leading to the situation we have now. It won't help.
Clod is still in a mess for whatever reasons but these reasons I could not care less. What I care about is to know if all parties involved in the development of the game will continue to support the game and the further development as I hope that in one year or so it will be fixed and we will enjoy an outstanding simulation (hoping that the dev team won't water down the sim aspect in the hope that this outbalances the lacks in game engine in the eyes of the common customer). I hope that they stick to the quality I expect from them after IL2 1946 and that they continue to improve the game with this in mind. If we all have a little patience knowing that a flight sim is in no way comparable to a mass market ego shooter and we show that support from the publisher will pay them in the end I am in good hope. So please think twice before you go on bashing the dev team and ask yourself if it really will help your cause. |
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I think the moral of the story is "Think twice before you take people's money and release an incomplete game".
I would have been gald to have waited 1 more year for a COMPLETE game that had most of the major bugs worked out of it and was ready to go, versus what we have currently. At the same time, we can't undo what has already been done, so we do what we've been doing since the beginning.. We wait and continue to stand behind the team and it's on-going quest to deliver the best WWII Flight Sim.. |
It so f*in sad....
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Protecting this game with full blinders on like it is some kind of religion. So pathetic. I want it to be fixed as much as the next person, but I'm not going to go into denial over it. :rolleyes: |
Whatever the history, it would be nice to have some communication and clarification about what is going on NOW as opposed to two to three years back.
The random nature of updates from Luthier at the moment only serves to increase the uncertainty. and posts of youtube vids of kids playing banjos - while funny for about two seconds - don't help. It would be nice for Luthier to make a good honest post then stick around a bit to answer questions. try and build a bit of a dialogue with the fans. At the moment we are getting a post every now and then about what will happen - then more often than not those things don't happen. it just feeds the whole vibe the project is in chaos. Jason at 777 has the right idea. He's constantly posting over at SimHq. he's worked very hard at building his relationship with his community and it's paid off. |
Perhaps Oleg did indeed quit, rather than being sacked.
I'm not sure how 1c could have forced him to leave his own company, unless they have bought controlling shares in MG. Does anyone know if this is the case? |
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You got it. Looks like Oleg screwed up bigtime and possibly lied about a sick son. Not very cool, but maybe this is how things are done in Russia????:confused: One more point; Over $1 million a year for a staff of how many; 6-10, in Eastern Europe???? Seems like good financing to me. It's probably even worse since the game was 2-3 years late;) |
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Return on Investment (ROI) is generated by profit. A game sold @ $45 by a distributor (UBI,1C, Steam, JustFlight ... etc etc ..) does not mean that the developer and \ or investor gets all of that money. They get a share of the profit of that revenue. Therefore the investor(s) will break even after the profit has met their costs. However, businesses also apply a discounted cash flow analysis to investments to reflect the relative performance of the investment. For example, if you had $1million 7 years ago and put it into an investment account that guaranteed x% interest, what would that be worth now? Software development is a business and that means that money talks ... imho I will be amazed if CloD generates an ROI that means that the investors will stay on board .. I hope I am wrong. S! |
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If the companies don't make a profit then development stops. Simple as that. What we have is, on many peoples systems, a product that has some outstanding features. Unfortunately other people have some serious issues running the program. If development stopped now we ALL loose out. Investors, developers, customers, everyone. In our niche market we cant afford too many failures or investment in the genre will disappear. In my opinion everyone should be doing their best to show support for the developers. Cheers! |
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/mazex |
Well maybe when 777 studio puts out their WWII fighter sim, then we will see.
I give up on 1C and getting this IL2 sturmovik Cliffs Of Dover version off the ground. Maybe if in 18 months, it might look and be as good as Rise Of Flight. until then see y'all next year around Christmas time is what I'm going to estimate. So I'm sticking to IL2 1946 Forgotten battles, and the new mods improvements. |
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It was just the GUI/Menus etc. that were written in Java, the game engine itself was in C(++). I think they took the same approach with Clod, although they exchanged Java for C#. You're completely right about OpenGL. |
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Its all good fat chewing. Conspiracy, counter conspiracy etc etc.
If, as some suggest, key people left 1C and created RoF with their knowledge and experience it would explain what many see as an inexplicable hole in CoD and its development. Inexplicable because 1C had so much experience and did such a good job on IL-2. Its as though a raft of knowledge and ability suddenly went missing or possibly actual data/coding could not be understood and is now being replaced. How could the sounds for instance be so naff after all they learned in IL-2? How could FMs and cockpits not have been tested? 1C have been so much better than that in the past. Am I the only one that thinks the pre-releases seemed better than COD itself or was it a master stroke of sleight of hand? Why did those guys leave (if they did)? Frustration? Quick buck? Who knows? Its all speculation. The thing that matters is what is happening to CoD now. The next patch should tell us how they are coping. |
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But if people want to pull numbers for any other game, that's fine by me. |
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Where I disagree is the bolded part. Developers making up their own universe have a much easier time of it than developers faithfully recreating something. Think of all the research that goes into a simulator, not only visual, but what goes on on the inside, like CEM, bullet physics, flight models etc. The devs for say, Halo have none of that to worry about. They can make it up as they go, and don't have to worry about it being realistic. |
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And I dont apologize for nothing... It is the turn for 1C now not for the community |
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The reason being that this was intended to be the first installment of a multi-part series, like the original Il-2. It's only speculation on my part, but it could be that financially, Cliffs has been written off already, but 1c/Ubi have decided that they could recoup their money from the other installments which will follow. The thing is, they can't abandon Clod because the tech powering the game willl be used for all successive games in the series too. So despite maybe Clod being a write-off financially, they can't just shelve it and begin work on the next game. Clod needs to be finished not only so that they can begin work on the next game, but also to reinstill faith and trust in their customer base. Once the engine is sorted, development for the other games in the series should then be much less of a hassle. The original series continues to this day, and I think this one could and should have the same lifespan, more or less. The publishers can still make a lot of money from this series, provided that they have the faith that it can be salvaged. |
If the statement by Jason is true at least we get a peek at what is going on at Ubisoft/1C and perhaps understand Luthier's position a little better, perhaps those who continually berate him will just take a step back but I doubt it. Its the same old conspiracy theorists who post as many rumours and speculation as they can and when something half sticks they crow about how right they were and try to validate the rest of their ramblings from it, its done us no good, we're still in the same position we were in last week.
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Just a few more words from Jason over at SIMHQ
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Now I posted it as a whole so hopefully I don't take it out of context but here's my take on it. The interesting points for me are Quote:
Like most of us westerners we only get to see a small amount of any of the discussions where someone sees something that will backup the points that they are trying to make and translated only that small part. Quote:
In my opinion the Cliffs of Dover team can be proud of what they have done so far. There's still alot of work to be done but that goes with all projects. You don't see the ROF team stopping their development work! Quote:
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Cheers! |
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Interesting post, thank you for posting it Tree!
Does not change my opinion about certain things of this flight sim but it is interesting background information that sheds light to what happened behind the scenes. ~S~ |
I'm still a little confused as to how 1c is the bad guy, just for investing 8M and six years into Oleg. :confused:
Then again: "Again, you see to blame Ubi for all this. Why don't you ask 1C if $8 million and 7 years was enough time and money for a team to eventually be held accountable for their work and produce a product?" Does that infer that Ubi payed the money to MG through 1C, or does it mean 1C payed the money itself?? Even more confuddled :confused::confused: |
Personally, I believe that Luthier and his team are up to the task of properly maintaining this game. The product isn't is as bad of shape as people lead on about.
All we can do now is sit back and wait. Leave them to their business and enjoy what we have now. |
Here here
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Its as bad as some make out and not as bad as others make out. Its playable, but only just, and it is definitely an alpha or beta software. Its not a good sim right now, but it could be if they finish it.
Hopefully the money will hold out long enough for them to make it a good sim or better. Apologizing for it or whining are of no consequence either way. Neither make any difference to the fate of this sim. If you are a big enough fan and are desperate for this to be finished, you should send checks to Luthier, that is the only thing that can make a difference....money. The devs will not work when the money runs out, finished or not. |
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