[WIP] Channel map
 

It may be too early for a developement update but... this is the area intended for the Channel map. The focus would be on the two major campaigns: the Battle of Britain and D-Day.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...pszsfnocmx.jpg

yes, you are right ... it would be first Vintage Black and White map in Il2 :D

Sweet! :D

Channel
 

This looks great!:grin: More than one of us has been waiting for this for years. I'm excited!:grin:

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/...OB036a-2-1.jpg

That's look really cool. That look like a very big map!
Can't wait to fight here in a spitfire!

I think there is a Channel map in multiplayer right (or something similar)?
Will you remake it?

Excellent! Thanks for the update and for keeping good old Il-2 alive! Good luck with your work! Can't wait to do proper ETO bombing runs on this map.

....no Sita, can't you see it's a winter map at night:-P

Awesome! thank you so much! new map are needed!
thanks for keeping the good il2 alive!

Great news! :grin:

Will it be scale 1:1 or 1:2 ?

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/59269366.jpg


))))

Nice choice of map limits. Good luck with the project.

109e3 spitsmk1 mk2 and mkxiv and more planes

Yes !!!:)

This will see a lot of virtual action. Nice choice

xx
 

we already have excellent scenery channel maps from SAS including London , radar stations etc ......wake up !!

Not everybody wants to use mods....so wake up yourself!!!

+1

Also, I tried to install some mods one time, but it didn't work lol.

xx
 

nic727

PM me after you prepare a copy updated to 412.2m and downloaded from SAS modact 5.3 and i will guide you through. take into consideration time difference , i live in SEA . dont worry no problem .

don't worry.. we just want our own ...

no offence to any map from SAS or CanonUK ... if i remeber correctly first Channel map was from him.

Duly noted, thanks!

A couple of appetizers on the work done so far (still work in progress)...

RAF Westhampnett 1944+
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...pssbsuj8bl.jpg

RAF Warmwell 1944+
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...psvgqatyob.jpg

xx
 

true MODs are not everyones cup off tea and the attitude towards new comers over at..... is downright demoralizing . Had it not been for help i got from a member at mission4today i would have never made it.

That's a very ambitious project, particularly if both London and Paris landmarks, as well as the Atlantic Wall defenses around Normandy, are included. It will also be a challenge to get the "White cliffs of Dover" to look right.

I'm assuming that it will be a 1:4 scale map.

While they might be separate projects, consider providing a bit more detail to the Cherbourg, Caens, Dunkirk, Dieppe, Le Havre, and St. Lo areas, since they were areas which saw considerable aerial action during the war.

On the UK side of the channel, a bit of extra detail in the areas of Dover, Portsmouth, Southampton, and the Isle of Wight (Chain Home Radar stations), as well as the flak defenses in the Thames Estuary would be welcome for BoB missions.

Looks like this will be one of the best additions ever from TD! :grin:

Imagine having Wellingtons, Blenheims or Beauforts for the R.A.F. fans to fly bombing missions over the French coast. And lots of anti-shipping raids for both sides!

Anyway...the potential for this map is huge!

From the bottom of my heart, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, Team Daidalos for this map and all the rest of your hard work! I, and I'm sure many others with me, really appreciate it!

Guys, thanks for the kind words!

I would like to share your optimism, but remember such a project is huge and there is alot to be done.

For what is worth, map is 1:1 scale, and the plan is to to have several periods, like Solomons and NGNB maps, starting from late August 1944 first and "go back in time".

DeLorean confirmed for 4.14m! ;)

Ahem, on a more serious note... I too am very much looking forward to this! Never expected a TD map of this, so regardless of how much time it will take, I am very much excited for this :)

Wow! That's ambitious. Best of luck!

FWIW, there has been a lot of research done on the WW2 airfields in that part of the world, much of it for other games.

It should be possible to get period aerial photographs of most of the Luftwaffe airbases along the English Channel ca. 1940.

If you're not already aware of it, this resource might be helpful:

http://www.ww2.dk/Airfields%20-%20France.pdf

http://www.ww2.dk/lwairfields.html

For examples of work done for other games (which might include period maps in the read-me):

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...ench-airfields

http://simviation.com/1/browse-Scenery-79-0

If you're going to be starting from 1944 and working back, also consider adding "Mulberry Harbor" objects, since these would be crucial targets for any hypothetical Luftwaffe counterattack.

http://www.combinedops.com/Mulberry%20Harbours.htm

Thanks Pursuivant!

I'm aware of both websites about LW airfields in France, and other material from those websites. My main reference for UK is the excellent series "Military Airfields of Britain" by Ken Delve, plus anything found on the web.

Another appetizer: RAF Biggin Hill 1944+ WIP
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...c6vtzhpw_1.jpg

Good Job Gitano, please keep it up!
I am in love with what you guys are doing... incredible!

That would make the map too big for IL2's map size limits.

Ignoring that, any map of Western Europe is going to be limited by the fact that it's one of the more densely settled places on the planet. That can reduce frame rates to a crawl, even on the best computer.

Gitano's Channel Map is already a tremendously ambitious project in that it will need to incorporate not one, but TWO, major world cities and their suburbs, each with their associated landmarks. Plus harbors, coastal defenses, and all the towns, roads, canals, and railroads in between.

It would more practical to have a map of England to the Ruhr be its own project. It could be done, since the distance from the SW coast of England to the Ruhr is less than 300 miles, but to limit the scope and size of the project, it would make sense to have the map be a long, narrow rectangle.

The north edge of the map could stretch from Ipswich to Munster, and the southern edge could stretch from Canterbury to Dortmund.

If I'm not mistaken, the map you are thinking of is very limited in that it only has buildings in the target areas of Hamburg and Dresden. Other towns/cities like London, Berlin etc. are empty because the game can't handle a populated map of that size, so the map is very mission-specific.

I think the DT channel map is intended to be useful for any operations in the area covered, not just one particular target.

WHAT???? Seriously? In what world "wouldn't" a channel map like this "bring anyhing new to the game"? :-(

IT BRINGS THE ENGLISH CHANNEL AREA!!!! Both sides of it! Not just Normany without a proper British coastline. That is good enough for most of us! It brings the opportunity for all of us who DO NOT run modded versions of IL-2 to play and recreate arial combat ranging from 1940 until 1944 over an area that has not yet been represented properly in this game!

It brings a map that most of us have been wishing for for years and years! Basically since the first version of IL-2 came out!

So how could you even dare use words like "wasting an opportunity" or "wouldn't bring anything new" when we finally will get a geographical area represented that has been lacking for so long???? :evil:

An English Channel map IS a GREAT addition to the stock game!!It will be loved and appreciated by the majority of the IL-2 Community all over the world, both players using mods and especially all of us who don't run mods!

I really can't thank TD enough for finally bringing a map like this to the stock game!!!

Strategic bombing could be used with the B-24 in mind on this map aswell. They did not always opperate at their maximum ranges! And stategic bombing was done by medium bombers aswell.

You talk about ONE type of new mission yet a map like this can be used for SEVERAL/MANY types of missions from fighter missions, fighter-bomber missions, anti-shipping missions, tactical to strategic bombing missions! Just to mention a few!

Would it be cool to have a map covering the entire western Europe from Germanys east border in the east to Ireland in the west and from the Spanish border in the south to the northern tip of Scotland in the north?

Sure it would! But would it be practical? No, probably not!

A map specialized for long range strategic bombing would be cool for those who would actually spend hour after hour flying the B-24 to reach a target and then hour after hour flying back home. But to the vast majority of players who probably would not have the time and interest to fly those kinds of missions a map like that would be considered a waste of time, especially if a map that size would affect the playabillity of the game due to it's share size. In that case a map of part of Japan would be better suited with a WAST expanse of Pacific Ocean and an Pacific Island with an US bomber base in the other end.

Not as fun off course as a huge western Europe map but it would be more practical.

However, this Channel Map will not be a waste of time for the vast majority of IL-2 players since it caters to the need/want of many and it can still be used for shorter/medium range stategic bombing. And it will hopefully be in a size that is practical for most players computers to handle.

Germany does not need to be on a Channel map!

An alternative for you strategic bomber fans would be a map with a wide stretch of North Sea in the middle with a Dutch/German coastline in the east end and a British coastline in the west end. Wast areas of sea would make a long range map far more practical than a long range map with densly populated landmasses.

I am looking forward to fly in this map! and I think it will be a very useful map!

As I wrote, the map is for cross-channel operations. There is plenty of room for bombers, even heavy ones. In any case I stress that there were no operationl airfields of RAF Bomber Command and the 8th AF in the area I chose. There will be some airfields used by the 9th AF (Boreham, Chippin Ongar and Matching) and RAF no.2 Group (e.g. Lasham, Dunsfold and others) medium bombers though.

For strategic bombing a map of the North Sea, including east anglia and other "bomber counties" as well as the Netherlands and parts of Germany would fit better.

cheers

I don't get it. We will get a new and important map for free and all this complaining about how that's a bad thing?

This map covers a land area that saw nearly constant action from 40 to 45, and that alone makes it needed.
It can be used for early war, German offense vs. Allied defense, potentially with a fictional invasion. That's a lot of fighter/attack/bomber mission options there.

Second option is to employ it for any kind of smaller skirmishes - in between the big battles, perfect for Il-2, and it does give the option for German harassment missions on RAF installations for the first time (There are your "new" missions). Allied can do the same, and not having to play on the limited Normandy map is an advantage.

Third, of course, is Invasion of Normandy, and now we have the opportunity to go hunting further off the invasion area, destroy supplies/infrastructure. German options also change, now a big area is to be patroled, and not just a few square kilometers of invasion area.

Okay, it is not the perfect map for strategic bombing/ship hunting or whatever, but it still is a great, important map, and it is big enough to allow strategic bomber operations on a limited scale(and after all IL2 is a tactical game!), and it does have water so anti shipping is possible.

So as far as I'm concerned, I'm excited to play on this map.

+1

Yep.. great map for people with stock games. These people screaming for long range strategic bombing.. just get the mods and especially this map:

http://gillesbabin.perso.neuf.fr/tru...ont39-45uk.htm

Or if you want to take off from a base in England, & fly right to Berlin and back:

http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.ph...c,42939.0.html

You know.. if you don't want to 'hurry up and wait'.

Actually, it's still useful for strategic bombing, since there were plenty of mid-war raids for locations along the coasts. In 1943, US bombers gained experience by bombing targets in France, with the strategic goal of gaining air superiority in Western Europe.

In early 1944, there were massive air raids against transportation infrastructure to help isolate the French coast prior to invasion. After the breakout, there were many operations designed to destroy V-1 launching sites and German troop concentrations.

For anti-shipping operations, the English Channel was a scene of constant low-level harassing raids by the RAF, which first targeted German invasion barges, and later E-boats and coastal shipping. So, while it didn't get the press that the Bay of Biscay did, it was a big deal.

Finally, there's the "Channel Dash" and support for the Dieppe raid in 1942, which were major campaigns. Given IL2's plane set, actions set from 1942 to early 1944 perfectly utilize the existing RAF plane set.

And the best thing in this new map, is that the amazing He-111 variants recently introduced fit very well!

Keep up the good work, TD!

may be that thing will be usefull for that map too

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLdXnG2JSJY

nice!

can this be removed!?

I hate wasting my time waiting to comment on other threads!

"This forum requires that you wait 120 seconds between posts. Please try again in 77 seconds."

120 seconds to post wtf? over?

RAF Boreham (Station 161) 1944+
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...pszvr6vwvq.jpg

RAF Chipping Ongar (Station 162) 1944+
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...psczxuq0uj.jpg

is paris on this map?

Possibly in the bottom right corner.

Yes. See the dot in the lower left hand corner of the map, between the two rivers which flow roughly North to South? Paris is located roughly to the SE, along the long "S-loop" of the Seine River.

It will take an incredible amount of work to do justice to the "City of Light" and its suburbs in the game. So many landmarks and strategic targets!

At the very least, I'd love to see the Tour d'Eiffel modeled, since there was actually a dogfight which took place around and under it!

http://www.warbirdsnews.com/warbird-...n-express.html

I'm really looking forward to this map! :grin: Especially if it will be usable in the QMB aswell!
This map will be ONE OF THE GREATEST additions to the stock game TD has ever made!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :grin: And I can't thank you guys enough for it!!!!

Do you have any plans to make any of the already present British bombers like the Blenheims, Beauforts or the Wellington flyable in the future so they can be used o this map?

I'm seriously excited the possibility of these maps being available one day, thanks _1SMV_Gitano! :-D

RAF Keevil 1944+ WIP
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...pswjjajidy.jpg

RAF Tarrant Rushton 1944+
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...psbzjjslxj.jpg

Looks really good! :D

Keevil and Tarrant Rushton with new T2 hangars

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKfCGLUdrgI

Sweet Jesus!

This will be such a great map to have in the stock game! Really looking forward to it! :grin:

Especially if there are some new flyable Aircraft introduced to fit it. Like an early Spitfire, the Blenheims, the Beauforts, the Wellington, the Morane-Solniers or the D.520. :)

Out of curiosity, will the August '44 map include advanced landing grounds in England? And will there be V1 launch sites?

Cheers,

HB

Yep, the (ambitious) plan is to include the 26 ALGs in England and around 50 ALGs built in Normandy. Consider that ALGs in the UK were progressively abandoned and dismantled so the August '44 map will have active ALGs in Normandy and inactive, or removed ALGs in the UK.

I'm not sure about the V1 sites at the moment.

Sounds good, thanks 8-)

Consider having at least one "formal" V-1 site (concrete bunkers, large "ski-shaped" preparation buildings, heavy launch ramps), in the Calais area, since these were heavily bombed in 1943-early 1944.

For example:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...l_Ski_Site.jpg

Beyond that, a "template" which allows mission builders to easily place smaller, temporary V-1 sites would serve for later launch sites.

In the stock game I have not been able to get V-1's to work properly in dogfight servers. They are invisible in flight but they do cause damage when they land. I don't know when the problem started but they did not work for me in v4.12. That version was the first time I attempted to use them in a dogfight server so the problem may go back farther than that patch version?

I am not sure about coops?


Wheels

Sorry for delay, I'm having problmes with photobucket from my usual machine.

RAF Ford 1944+ WIP
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...psuzkoyftp.jpg

Nice! Looking really good! Thanks for the update, _1SMV_Gitano ! :)

Work is going on, here is a WIP picture of the template (blue spots are airfields):

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...psad9mufph.jpg

And some more airfield WIPs

RAF Colerne 1944+
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...psyf4fciva.jpg

RAF West Malling 1944+
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...psxbzz7ste.jpg

RAF Hawkinge 1944+
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...pseqqqtcfi.jpg

RAF Gravesend 1944+
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...psh65gjhhw.jpg

Awesome!

strange ... i see no pict ... (( something strange with photobucket ..

Photobucket is down for maintenance. :-S

OMG! It's so HUGE map!!

:-o
it is fantastic, a very great work!!!!
thank you for this beautiful map, flying in it will be a real pleasure 8-)

Fantastic level of details. I love this coastal line. Just give me good old Sunderland boat so I could study all those bays and firths.

Beautiful!!!
Thanks for Your work!!!
You made Il2 a pleasure, its the easyist simulator to start, and with a few mouse clicks you are airborne having fun!!!

Looks amazing! :grin:

Thank you so much for all your hard work!!!

post update please?

Not at the moment,

I'm loosing my eyes to build the rail/road/highway network, and considering I spend a lot of time in front of a laptop at work, I really need some days off.

I will post another WIP of the template soon. :)

We look forward to it! You are doing an incredible job! :D

Nice Job Gitano!
Remember to get some rest!

Thanks for the kind words!

In these days I was reading "JG 26. Top Guns of the Luftwaffe" by D. Caldwell and was inspired to jump to the other side of the Channel... here is the WIP result

Abbeville - Drucat
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7gc67enrec...ille.jpg?raw=1

It looks great, Gitano! :D

Thanks for the update!

Hi gents,

this message is just to let you know that the work is going on...

_1SMV_GITANO, Thank You very much for Your work, but have You finished Malta and Tunisia maps?;)

Hehe, after some discussion we decided to put the Channel map on higher priority.

Little dev. update, I completed the rail/highway network on the UK side of the Channel (based on the 1940s ordnance survey). The plan is to limit the coutry road network to the the ones close to airfields
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2s1jxfaiak...m-uk.jpg?raw=1

and here is RAF Rochford WIP
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ca68yl60m...ford.jpg?raw=1

how big it will be!?!

http://www.relatably.com/m/img/oh-my...d-meme-506.jpg

even i didn't expect that size and area ...

Holly shit! Island on south of Britain have a lot of road and railroad! Who are you, Guitano!? Robot?:confused:

LOL, that's one of the few parts where I already added secondary roads... But apparently the Isle of Wight is much more complex than that of the current Normandy map ;)

WOW! I can only say that, WOW!

That looks very neat!, always a treat to see things like this.

Now, with all of those railways, surely we need some british locomotives and wagons as well? ;)

and some one who would make it )))

I can make some crude ones out of cardboard, but I suspect that would be difficult to import to the game ;)

It is of course not important, I just couldn't help keep my mouth shut :P

Non-generic airfields! That alone would make this map better than most. Then the scope, and that on a terrain densely populated - Solomons may be large, but ocean tiles pretty much fill themselves. And to top it off, you decide to include a detailed railroad and road network, that is DEDICATION. Nice work, really nice work. Keep it up and please keep posting WIP!

More Essex airfields, all work in progress.

RAF Fairlop
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1gghl2cbpv...rlop.jpg?raw=1

RAF Hornchurch
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ujvuzbhql5...hurh.jpg?raw=1

By the way, I am looking for the record site plans of North Weald and Bradwell Bay. Does anybody have them?

Thanks

Amazing!!! :D

This will be the mother of all maps for sure!!!!!

To say well done is an understatemen!!!

I'm in awe!!!!!!!!

My thumbs are so up I'm getting cramps!

The following shows just how truely impressive the work done really is and that,s just the rail network .....

https://sakuraspins.files.wordpress....08/br1961c.jpg

Just a left of field thought, but would it be possible to use the lower class LOD of the rail units from COF, on the assumption that maybe the second level of LOD would be close to that of the first level in 46.

Or could that which exists in COF be degraded to make it compatible, and yes this all still requires someone to do it, but would this approach be easier than starting from scratch?

As for the French side of the Chanel the current upgraded German rolling stock should more than suffice.

The work on the SW England railway network is brilliant, but I'm afraid that it was never that important during the BoB.

Due to the excellent British radar and communications networks, trains received advanced warning of incoming raiders which allowed them to be held or moved outside of the battle zone or stopped (possibly hidden) if they couldn't be evacuated from the area.

The exception was that British trains along the SW coast were vulnerable to German "tip and run" raids in 1943-1944, although they were never priority targets. Occasionally, during 1940-42, British trains would be strafed as targets of opportunity by low-flying Bf-109, but they were never official targets.

More important if you want to simulate targets of organized attacks on the British railway system would be representations of marshaling yards and major railway stations. For example, King's Cross St Pancras Station in London was heavily damaged during the Blitz.

But, I hope that similar level of detail for railways is applied to the French side of the map, since the RAF and USAAF systematically and viciously attacked the French railway system prior to D-Day.

cof?

Bugger........ COD, sorry was typing it on my phone, we should all just call it IL2 BOB, then there would have been no confusion.

at first need look into TOW storrage ... about CLOD not sure... but may be we can write letter to Foo'bar ... for his Beauty Locomotive's .. but again, even in that case it will be alot of work .. to prepare Hipoly models ... Btw ... if you want try to training with some simple models ... i have to you one small but interesting thing ... which call from you some knowelege of PS and Max ... to start it can be exactly what need ...

OK if you think I'm up to it, just PM me over @ gateway or drop an email.

Will need to put some oil on those rusty max skills (or lack there of) though.

ok)

This map will be epic!!! :grin:

Amazing work, TD! Respect!

This railway map is not 100% complete. It's probably great at what it does do, but I happen to know of a very minor side-side-side line that isn't on it.

This one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristo...merset_Railway

Which featered this item:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pensford_Viaduct

If it was known about and omitted for reasons of irrelevance, then I quite understand, but if it is not there because nobody knew, I thought it should be mentioned.