another germ
 

Hello once again ...

with huge help from one great person from SOH forum (www.sim-outhouse.com)
( directly this http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...fans-!/page50& )

i start another thing ... i think would be great to finish line with Dacotas family ... i mean ... we have now Li2 and L2D .. and for US need C47 ...

so i started working ...

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6714...bfc44_orig.jpg

for now it's firts attempt ... alot of work in perspective ... and as always i need your help guys ...

here is the thing ... i didn't have all needed gauges to make C47 right ... i don't want take gauges from B25 ... because it's not all similar with C47 1942 year...

so if anybody can help me with findings of old gauges for C47, it would be great! ...

i need gauges from that scheme ...


https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/1611...14a17_orig.jpg

here some of it in reality ...

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/2700...09170_orig.jpg

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/15/1...2a768_orig.jpg


https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/2796...9df2a_orig.jpg

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/2540...7557b_orig.jpg

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5639...380d8_orig.jpg

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/7087...59615_orig.jpg


most of that gauges i find in Lockheed Electra .. with lovely Amelia

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/7087...ade80_orig.jpg

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9309...52f78_orig.jpg

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6716...bdf27_orig.jpg

but i hope that somebody can find more useable pict to make gauges from it ...


and i want again say words of gratitude to man who help me with information for DC-3 ...
Javis! ... Thank you Very MUCH!!!

C-47 cockpit gauges
 

Howdy, Sita.
Here's a pilot training video I found on YouTube that has some close-ups of some of the gauges and controls. Also mentions some flight procedures that are interesting:
(Also found the US Navy had versions R4D-1 thru R4D-8. Similar cockpit layout?)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA_N10PQtl0

Thanks) it's really interesting video)

This is EXCITING news. :grin:

Can't wait to possibly fly the gooney bird. Now in the manual for Pacific Fighters vaguely goes over supply missions in the online campaign section. Anyone have any idea how to build these? I figure if I can get started now, might have it figured out when C-47 is flyable.

Sita,

My offer stands to take photos of the C-47 at my local air museum.

PM me with interior photos, etc. that you still need.

I've held back because I'm not sure that the cockpit instruments are still original - many modifications made to bring nav systems and radio up to 21st century standards. But, there might still be some original stuff that will help.

This site might have what you need:

http://www.propellor.tv/C47%20instrument%20panel.html

The restorer claims that the panel and placards are WW2 vintage.

The instruments in the panel might not be 1942 vintage, but they're close enough. My understanding is that there were very few US manufacturers of cockpit instruments (Bendix, Sperry, General Electric, Honeywell, Delco, and a few others) and they all made instruments to USAAF or USN standards.

I'm not sure if you intend to model them, but here is a decent picture of the C-47 radio operator station:

http://www.jsu.edu/socialwork/fredfa...nside_C-47.jpg

Not so great picture of the navigator position:

http://www.jsu.edu/socialwork/fredfa...ide_C-47_2.jpg

Can't find a specific 1942 pit layout as there's so many variants around of this aircraft's cockpit
unless you have blueprints and actual panel layouts It could be quite a task finding the data you want.

Link below might be useful for other projects as well as some info on DC3 panel

http://spitfirespares.co.uk/instruments%2021.html

Pre restoration video,
not much help but might be of use in other areas :)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tRx1yIpRf8

Due to its extensive post-WW2 use, there have been many modifications to the cockpits of most C-47s. Mostly modern navigation and radio gear, but sometimes more extensive changes.

In many ways, it would be more appropriate to have a later war variant of the C-47, since US aircraft production really expanded in 1943-44. That might also make it easier to find pictures of unmodified cockpits, since more of the later production aircraft are preserved as static museum exhibits.

Thanks Guys for info and reply ...

i based that pit on Techical description for export variant C-47 of 1942 year ... and trying to make it without any modern equipment ...

That's a good reason to look for 1942 cockpit views, then!

But, I'm afraid that you might have made things harder for yourself, since US aircraft supplied to the UK and its Commonwealth Allies were often fitted with US-made versions of RAF instruments. I don't know if this was true for the Dakota I, however.

War Department Technical Manual Aircraft Instruments TM 1-413 printed 2 Feb 1942

This manual has exactly the pictures you need, including a very good diagram of a C-47 cockpit (page 4)!

It should be valid for all USAAF aircraft produced in 1942, and possibly later. Not only do you get halfway decent pictures, but there are also some diagrams, as well as information as to exactly how each instrument works. Really good stuff for a cockpit creator.

There's a free, high-quality scan here, which can be downloaded as a .pdf:

https://archive.org/details/TM1-413

Manual for USAAF Propellers and propeller pitch control equipment:

TM 1-412 Aircraft Propellers

https://archive.org/details/TM1-412

i try to cover as widely as possible by that pit ... that plane can use for USAF ( i hope ) RAF and even by lendlease in VVS

That makes sense, since many C-47 were supplied to US Allies.

But, if I understand correctly, the main modifications to Lend-Lease aircraft were to guns and ordinance, which don't apply in the case of the C-47/Dakota.

Speaking of modifying the C-47, please take a look into the fragility of the aircraft's DM, which is one of the most vulnerable in the game.

While the airframe wasn't stressed to survive high G loads, it was otherwise fairly durable, as attested by the large numbers of DC-3/Ex C-47/C-53 aircraft still in operational use well after WW2.

Also, take a look at this Victoria Cross citation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lord

Note that Lord was able to fly his burning Dakota for approximately 8 minutes(!) before the fire caused the wing to collapse.

I am not sure about British, but C-47, supplied to the USSR were not modified in any way and were used as cargo aircraft.

USSR, however, manufactured it's own versions of the plane: PS-84, which was license-built version of DC-3 and Li-2, which was altered to have internal bomb bays, bombardier equipment, MG turret and forward firing fixed MG. The later was produced both fitted with military equipment, and without it, but with possibility to be retrofitted with it.

it's a pure C-47 from USSR VVS with original instruments ..

same plane ...

and as final of long holidays ...

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9329...aa5bf4_X4L.jpg

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/1551...670d8d_X4L.jpg

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6855...d75262_X4L.jpg

Gorgeous!

I'm not sure about lend-lease planes to the UK, either. From 1939-41 the RAF bought many US-built planes outright, and often demanded lots of detail changes to the basic airframe (e.g. Buffalo Mk I vs. B-239).

After Lend-Lease started I get the sense that the RAF had to take US planes with fewer modifications. Either that or there was close enough harmonization between the US and the UK that the RAF didn't need to specify changes.

In any case there's very little reason to add a proper RAF Dakota to the game, since the only obvious change would be to a few gauges and placards in the cockpit.

can you help me once again ...

can you read or compare nameplates with annotation for it ...

do i correct read it? plus few name plate a can't read ...


https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/3818...6d2ce0_X4L.jpg

Spelling is correct for all panels.

Second panel right side mystery word (for switchs 13 & 14) is "Off".

Mystery word for switch 10 might be "stwd'ss" (abbreviation of "stewardess")

I have to wonder if the panels you're looking at aren't from the DC-3, which might have had slightly different systems than the C-47.

Will take a look at let you know.

Was Googling to see if I could find any contemporary shots of the panels and the following images does share quite a few of the same details from your manual scans, but being as it is taken from within a restoration the usual problems of accuracy do apply.

http://www.warbirdsnews.com/wp-conte...45045035_o.jpg


However this is a Canadian paratroop ship, and the first officers panel reflects this with the three jump light switches.

No.7 it looks like you've written PILOT instead of PITOT as in the combination of No.s 7 & 6 are:
https://scontent-syd1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...b4&oe=576B7AFC

No.s 4 & 5 should be:

https://fbcdn-photos-c-a.akamaihd.ne...809459bd2c356d

I think No.8 should be (there may or not be a hyphen in de-icer, as there does not appear to be one for No.3 but it hard to tell from the image if there is one in the spelling for No.8)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...cfd4f3fffabec3

For No.2 there should be a full stop after the word PROP as in "PROP."

No.4 the CARB. DE-ICER switch on the second panel has an extra 3 or 4 letter word ending in OM. befor DE-ICER that I'm still trying to work out.

Looks like it's MOM. as in an abbreviation for a momentary switch:

https://fbcdn-photos-c-a.akamaihd.ne...6f513b1b1d494e

No.s 13 &14 panel two the centre word is OFF:

https://scontent-syd1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...d7&oe=576117B2

Not so sure about No. 11 second panel "ST?D'SS, looks to small to be a W and why would there be both an ATTENDANT CALL switch and a STEW'SS (Stewardess) CALL switch?

But then again No. 12 is a call light, so then No. 11 maybe an intercom, but as Pursuivant also suggests this is more in line with what you'd expect to find on a civilian airliner (DC-3), however I guess then why would you go to the effort of re-inventing a pre-existing switch label if the function is more or less the same, or maybe have its just a case of using up pre-existing civilian stocks of said switch.

Panel 2, Switch 10 Navigation light mystery words are: "Flash" & "Steady."

That is, toggling the switch one way makes the navigation lights flash on and off, toggling it the other way makes them stay continually lit.

For all three-way switches, it appears that the middle position is "off."

I agree with Spudkof about "Mom. De-Icer" and "Pitot" vs. "Pilot."

It looks as if you're working from the 1947 DC-3 Manual. It appears as if there are some revisions in that addition. I'm trying to find a pre-war version of the manual, but no luck yet.

That's the way I was leaning.....


1942 C-47 pilot notes, different panel and no clear details:

http://www.maam.org/flightsim/enhance/pfoi.pdf

Pilot's Notes for Dakota (RAF), fairly low res' though.

http://www.maam.org/flightsim/enhance/uk_dak.pdf

Dakota Norway......

Original maunual: http://dakotanorway.no/test/wp-conte...ing-manual.pdf

Current mnual with many photos: http://dakotanorway.no/test/wp-conte...B-03.02.10.pdf

like this for example:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...77a98b834cf44c

I think that Sita's already found the best resolution pictures of a DC-3 cockpit that we're likely to get from the internet.

But, for what it's worth, the placard above the electrical switch panels on the DC-3C appears to the same as for the C-47B:

Feathering Motor Circuit Not Fused
If No Feathering Action Within Ninety
Seconds Open Switch By Pulling

I can only partially make out the placard to the L side of the Right Side Electrical Panel

Electrical
Operation
After Hand Crank
A.
B.
C.

oohh... that's nice))) Thanks)

I think that the mystery word for switch 11 in the bottom panel is: "STW'SS"

which I take to be an abbreviation for Stewardess. It might make sense given that flight attendants were always female back then. The shape of the letter is sort of similar to the W in "Switch" from the placard at the top of the panel.

I'm not certain that I'm right, though.

Sadly, there's nothing in any of the pilots' manuals about using the intercomm system or the lights, and the C-47 electrics are very different (different switches for various phases of paratroop drop, formation and recognition lights), so no help there.

So hard to choose ...

so many variants ...

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4524...6f6c1d_X4L.jpg



but i think most right that one ...


can anybody read all nameplates?


https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4519...d2071c_X4L.jpg

To avoid having to make a choice, make on of each :P

lol ... but i have only two hand and onle life) ...

You'll just have to loose one of those less important aspects to your life then, like eating sleeping, working, etc..........

yep ... not a big deal ...)

Well, panels #2 (red and white stripes) and #4 are right out, since I don't think that LEDs date to the 1940s! :)

Several of the others are out for the DC-3 because the lights are set up for military ops. A civilian DC-3 didn't need all the recognition lights.

For the bottom most photo:

1. "Radio Panel Lights" = box photo in upper right.

2. ILS Control = horizontal facing box at top right of main photo:

A) Switch - "On, Off",
B) L Rheostat - ??
C) R Rheostat -
"V Y W Z Y Z
Localizer
??"

4. White "bar" left of Compass Light Rheostat = Detent for some sort of switch, probably labeled "Bail Out" (see Spud's picture for details).

5. ON Compass Lights OFF?
6. Prop. Feather Left
7. ON Panel Lights ON
8. Prop Deicer - On/Off

Main Left Panel

9. White "bar left of jump light = Detent for switch "Para Pack Salvo"
10. Caution/Off/Jump = Lights used to signal paratroops/load master
11. Battery Master - On/Off
12. Passing Light - on/off
Switch Off While Using Battery Cart
13. Landing Light Left - on/off
14. Landing Light Right - on/off
15. [Lights] Position Wing - Bright/Off/Dim
16. Lights [Position] Tail - Bright/Off/Dim
17. Pitot [Heater] Forward - on/off
18. [Pitot] Heater Aft - on/off
19. Oil Dilution - Engage? Primer? - Left/Right

Right Panel/Bottom-most picture

1. Cockpit Lights - ON/Off
2. Inverter - On/Off
3. Carb. Deicer - On/Off/Nom?
4. Prop. Feather Right
5. Formation Lights - Off/On
6. Engergize - Left/Off/Right/Starter
7. LH Booster - On/Off/?
8. RH booster - On/Off/:
9. Keying Switch
10. Recognition Lights
A) Key/Off/Steady Red
B) Key/Off/Steady Green
C) Key/Off/Steady Amber
Maximum Ground Operating Time 10 Sec
11. Amps - 0, 10, 40?, 80? - Left [Note: Gauges are slightly different but easier to read in Spud's picture]
12. Ampheres - 0, 10, 40, ? - Right [Ditto]

Can't read words near detent switch just above Recognition lights.

Placard at top of L & R panels: "Feathering Motor Circuit Not Fused. If No Feathering Action Within Ninety Seconds Open Switch By Pulling"

Placard to L of L panel: "Electrical Operation After Hand Crank"???

On Spud's picture, the center-mountd round gauge is the Ignition Switches:

Good picture here:

http://www.maam.org/airshow/images/r4d_cockpit_21.jpg

L On<-->Off R

Off, L, R, Both, R, L, Off

A.C. Type
B-5

For yet another variant! Here's a good site for the R4D-6, basically, the Navy version of the C-47

http://www.maam.org/airshow/r4d_panels.htm

lazy update today ...

Gorgeous!

But, since I'm never happy unless I'm finding fault, I think that you'll need to correct the placement of the "Prop Feather Right" text so it's symmetrical with the "Prop Feather Left" tag (or vice-versa). :)

oops ... my mistake ... will fix)

hmmm.... i did it directly from that pict ...



as you can see ( even with some distortion on photo) name plate is not simmetric to left patr .. and placed not by center of feather button ...

and if you didn't say to me about it ... i would even didn't see it by my self)))

Obviously, an error at the factory! Or, it's meant to be that way.

If it's true to life, you don't have to fix it! :)

take it together ...

one more ...

Thats realy cool! :grin:

Thx)) ..

but it's not final ...still need a lot to do ... and pit in not correct color ...

btw ... can anybody said to me by which color was painted pit's of US plane? it's first my American plane ...

Typically, US military aircraft interiors were painted with zinc chromate green. Instrument panels were matte black. Both Army and Navy/Marines had formal paint color specs. You should be able to get color samples with a web search.

Or, just use the color from that B-24 interior.

US civilian plane interiors could be any color depending on manufacturer. Most were some form of light gray or just bare aluminum.

You can't go too far wrong with the light gray used for the SB-2 cockpit.

The insulation blankets on the roof and sides of the cockpit were some color of Olive Drab on the C-47, probably some color of medium gray on the DC-3. It should be easy to get a color sample from your reference pictures.

Pictures of the cockpit you made have a correct color for the blankets on a DC-3. Gray paint color could be lighter.

for now there A-14 grey which used in USSR VVS ... remains of the Li2 ...

Picture of civilian DC-3 Cockpit here:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/0881388/L/

You should be able to get a good color sample off of the picture. Gray instrument panel could make a nice distinction from C-47 and other DC-3 variants, but black was just as common.

Zinc Chromate primer is naturally yellow-green, but when applied to aluminum is apple green. A bit of black paint was often added to make it more ultraviolet resistant, so the color could be darker - almost olive drab. It also gets darker as it oxidizes. So, your choice of colors as long as it's ugly green!

This color will work just fine:

http://www.art-paints.com/Paints/Ena...c-Chromate.gif

Here are a couple of color C-47 cockpits which show variants of Zinc Chromate primer. Note the variations! I'm starting to get the sense that no two C-47 cockpits were the same!

http://www.wingsmuseum.co.uk/images/DSCF0875.jpg

http://www.militaryfactory.com/cockp...uglas-c47d.jpg


Way too much information about interior paint colors of US Aircraft:

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazin...colours_us.htm

thanks for color sample)

Hi there,
I've just discover this project and you can't imagine how glad i am viewing the wip pictures.
Il2 1946 with New Guinea map and radio navigation is just the perfect sim to master the gooney bird in its great times.
So many potential thrilling and challenging missions...
You made my day!
I wish you the best for this project and can tell you Il2 1946 will stay on my hard disk as long as the project is living... and a very long tume after its realease ;)
Best regards,
Gooney

finish ...

This looks great, Sita. I look forward to seeing it in the game. Excellent work.

few more pict ...




https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5556...4d0759_XXL.gif

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6206...a9479e_XXL.gif

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5911...3554d3_XXL.gif

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5911...4d1ca5_XXL.gif

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9788...efa750_XXL.gif

Cant wait :)

Wow!!! Thank you Sita!! So nice!
I can not wait!!

Beautiful work, but . . .

In operational service those empty shelves behind the co-pilot's seat would be filled with radio and navigation equipment.

But, it's an easy fix (assuming you want to fix it). All you need is "boxes" of the appropriate shape and color since you can't see the tops or faces of the radios/navigation aids.

Wow. Three modifications?
Leather armchairs look so comfortable. Is there cigar holder as well? :-)

yes i thinking about it ... but for now i already crossed the limmits by poly ... so i think need look how it will be in game ... i mean that we now can look so easily behind pilots wall ... in game you can't look so far behind ... so ... when will be first attempt to import it i'll look and will think aboud radio equipment again ...

Outstanding :grin: ..... So when do we fly? Got a supply run into Tsili Tsili ready to go. 8)

i hope for 4.14 ...

If the radio equipment is big enough, it might block the pilot's view sufficiently that you can reduce polys. Alternately, you can have closed-sided shelf, which would not only reduce polys, but would also be easier to skin.