Luthier...The Council of Stellar Management....
 

....is what sorted the majority of Eve onlines player problems.

So could this idea be translated to CoD. I don't see why not with some tweaking?

Some of you know me from the old UBI forums. I am a former RAF Officer (and Blitzpigs member), I love this game from IL2 days but we do need a collective to feed back up the chain in an orderly fashion.

What we have is similar. A group of flight sim enthusiasts who have disagreements but do all agree on one thing our passion for this game and what it represents.

We have lots of voices but maybe what Luthier and Co need is a small collective of members who are well known and respected in this community to provide that voice and feedback for Luthier so that he can develop one magnificent sim.

There is a lot of noise here on the forums. We all agree though we want CoD to be the best game for us all. So why not try this approach with some tweaking so Luthier can discuss the wants and needs with a much smaller nominated group of players who can filter the data BACK to Luthier in an organised and presentable manner. It's up to us to make this the best game possible but Luthier can only do this when we are not all shouting at once. Its simple man management.

Below is an example of how succesfull this has run with Eve Online. I am not saying it needs to be indenticle but I do think the old saying "Too many cooks..."

http://www.mmogamer.com/05/07/2009/e...n-mmo-near-you

Sorry but I think this idea is not a good one. First of all I think it is not required as this is not a massive user game where thousands and thousands of people interact.

I don't want other people to speak for me or pressumably in my name - there are already too many politicians doing this and the end is that I feel miss represented.

I don't need somebody I even don't know to filter my opinions. Luthier is well capable to do this me thinks.

And there's a LOT of potential for abuse as all are stake-holders even those who would be declared (by what procedure btw?) "speaker for the community".

I would not approve of such a thing.

I think it would be a good idea:!:

let's see if I get this right;

the basis of your post seems to say you want something akin to a team Daidalos WITHOUT the creative things they seem to do.

You have missed the point completely. It's not about that it's about organising the issues back to Luthier in a presentable fashion.

So you think what we have right now is solving the issues. You are very wrong. Right now this is just rabble.

If it includes a free trip to Iceland than I am in!

Vote me and I will send you nude pics of my big breasted asian girl friend rubbing lotion all over herself!

As a bonus after getting elected everyone who votes for me will recieve a collectors edition raf or Lutwaffe pilots cap!


Vote fer meh!!!

I agree with Stormcrow to a degree.

Not suggesting the idea to collate discussions is bad, I'm sure that happens already with mods/devs looking at the forums and doing that themselves.

I'd say that's already evident.

It would just create a middle-man so to speak.

A forum is for discussing; and I'd rather those more in-line with the development/company deal with this.

Targ for president!!!!

Similar. The details would have to be banged out but it would allow information to get back to Luthier so he can prioritise based on the forums feedback.

Not everyone will like it but then it's not a hard or fast rule. Those that don't like this sort of thing feel they are being missed out. Right now we just have a load of screaming ad not much clarity. So something needs to be able to be organised and sent back to Luthier.

Dada. This dev team is working for more than 10 years on flight sims without filters.

But I understand why you like this stuff. That's how things likely were during your time in the RAF where there had been people assuring the link between the base and the lead. But this is civil life which works different and experience shows that it worked fine.

I don't want a filter because that IS what you actually do propose. You want a group of users that collects issues and then transmit them to the dev team. But what would be the benefit from it if this group of people did NOT filter? It would be nil. So they WILL filter.

BTW: it will be not only a few people who would not like it. It has been a distinctive feature of this dev team that there had been a straight and direct contact between dev team and community. That what makes this quite special. Now you want to kill this.

We are not saying not to discuss. However the developers are not reading every post on the forum. This is a middle ground so we can sort out the wheat from the chaff.

So you intent to FILTER.

No, I say: don't cut the link between dev team and community by a filter. It worked fine this way for over 10 years and never change a running system.

So tell me how's it's going now? Filter is what is needed. But not through one individual but a collective so everyone gets a voice.

We have Spitfire cutout issues and instruments going from one extreme to another. This to me is taking CoD from being a sim to another arcade game like IL2 became after the release of Pacific Fighters.

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion. I am just saying this forum is full of ranting and raving but no clear details.

Again you are taking my post out of context.

The developers wont stop community feedback but there still needs to be a filter to help with the issues.

Just my opinion.

The problem is that everyone here is a freaking expert. We need less experts, not more.

That it isn't working is only your perception.

I've been around for quite a while and I have complete confidence into the dev team (with more than ten years of experience of interaction with the community) being absolutely and perfectly capable of putting the right priority to what they read on the forums - unlike you it seems.

Ah, the wheat from the riff-raff...

I know you mean well Hamish, but speaking as an anarchist, I believe in natural selection.

The spoilers will become extinct if they are not fed over time, and the natural pride and energy of the developers, will ensure their survival and creative work, as long as enough of us make it worth their while to do so.

Have faith Ham... the cream always rises.

welcome to the banana forum, where the cake isn't the only thing fruity.

I have been around since IL2 first appeared. I have confidence in the Dev team I never said otherwise. I am just seeing the same bickering on the forum from a decade back that resulted in a massive load of patches.

As I said an idea you have raised your points and they are perfectly valid. You don't like the idea and that's fine.

Think its bad now? Wait till the average yank "gamer" gets a hold of it in a couple of weeks! (No offence to our wonderful American allies intended, the ones flying now we will class as eagle squadron pilots)

Targ...if i vote for you, will you bring us ffb :P

neigh to the middleman filter (I'm with you on this one Stormcrow)

mods just need to merge identical/ similar threads and there is no need to cut the link which has worked for years.

I would like to see one special mission added to the game that really tests all
parts of CoD , that everyone could use to gather info. Then a single thread in the forums to report your system and your results only .....no pleas , gripes , threats or whines , just the results.
This would give the devs what they need to know without having to weed through
all the other stuff in the forums.

sg

LMAO, no, no it didn't.

+1 on that...

and mods just remove the irrelevant posts to another thread

1+

or in other words a COD black Death(like) track/mission? The only thing I've currently seen that resembles that is the intercept bombers over London mission.....

a benchmark mission would be very useful, its difficult to compare pre and post patches on some elements, a standard trk file maybe for starters so that the test is repeatable

The idea of removing the communities direct link to the developers is a bad one I think. Despite the volume of 'noise' on the forum, the devs are putting out patches which address most of the issues raised by the community and if not yet fixed they've been acknowledged and earmarked for future updates.

Giving control of what gets back to the devs to a self proclaimed elite group of
'I've been around for ages' / 'look at my post count' / 'I've flown a plane' people is pointless and alienates everyone else.

Having played Eve since |Genesis I would disagree.

Anyway it was just a thought and plenty of interesting feedback. sg1221 has an interesting idea. Almost like a roadtest?

I remember the Blitzpigs. A group of bigmouths. ;-) Dangerous pilots online though.
I'm SKULLS_Ven and worked as a moderator for a while in the Ubi forums.

Hamish, the forum works great at pointing out problems with the sim and even prioritize them. Just by looking at the subject field the devs can find out what needs to be fixed in what order. FFB seems to be on the top of the list right now.

+1 on benchmark mission like black death.

Will we be exhorted to boycott the game on a regular basis? Seems to happen an awful lot with some of you guys when you don't get what you want. :(

Not too familiar with the EVE council, but what would definately bring added value would be a collective issue tracker where community could vote / prioritize issues.

This would hopefully reduce the million repeats 'Fix my thing asap pls!!!1'. Like FFB requests which are now spammed billion times to ensure devs see them and get a sense of urgency of the issue.

This way we would have community prioritized list which devs could easily review and make their decisions with atleast enough information.

Well there's a council already as a sorts. Like back when I was a mod/beta tester for LOMAC the beta testers and mods are part of the community and talk in private with the devs over issues. They actively participate on the forum and see things we don't see.

Terrible idea, I suppose the OP wants to be one of the council members who want to decide what the community wants, and ultimatly what I want.
I have no idea who the blitzpigs are, maybe some elitist pigs who think they are better at filter all the "good" things better than everyone else.
Thanks but no thanks, I think I still want my direct contact with the devs on these forums, thank you.

PS.
I don't know what EvE online you are playing but I can bet my left arm that no council fixed my online experience in EvE lol. It's a just a PR stunt...

BI uses devheaven.net as a bug tracker for Arma very well.

Ham, I see where you are coming from here. Not sure a middle man is a good idea, but clearly we need a way to address issues without every thread turning into a shouting match, or devolve into Red vs. Blue drivel as some are doing already.

And I do agree that we don't want a repeat of what happened a lot in IL2 over the years. Plane Y behaves in a certain manner. After patch Plane Y behaves in a totally opposite manner. Wailing and gnashing of teeth ensues on forums, another patch is deployed, and Plane Y behaves in yet another totally different manner.

This destroys credibility for the developers FM/DM structure and hence the integrity of the sim as a whole comes into question.

The current questions of the RAF Merlin Neg G cutout is a fine example of the sim starting down the path that IL2 took. A small component of the Neg G behavior is not quite right, yet the devs take a sledgehammer approach, probably misreading the sentiment on the boards, and change the whole behavior instead of just tweaking the tiny bit of the behavior that is actually in question. Then it turns into an ugly Red vs. Blue thing and the threads devolve into school yard dust ups.

I hope my rambling makes sense.

Luthier cannot possibly parse this forum and still do the job he is getting paid for. The devs need some way to get info in a more easily understood manner.


O/T: Good to see you again Jimmy. Hope you are well.

Not sure ' bout the stellar management feedback proposal. Squeaky wheels needs to be heard, thats why they squeaks. :rolleyes:

Being stateside and not having the beta I can only assess from what I read ... Mostly sounds like a bunch of hens babbling in a cafeteria ... you know twenty conversations going on at once. Step back a bit and you will see what I am saying.

I think we need a more focused view on bugs so us Yanks can get a shot at this sim since it will only keep getting pushed back with the ubiquitous complaints about "every time I push the stick forward the engine stalls"

fox out

BlitzPigs are eliteist , thats rich.

I don't think it's a bad idea running on top of what's already going on here. It doesn't have to be THE exclusive method of filtering information between us and the developers.

It's really up to the developers if they think it will help as an efficient way to pare away all the "thanks Luthier take the weekend off" type of useless replies but honestly I think they have a pretty good grip of what's not working yet to keep them busy for now.

After the major stuff has been taken care of over the next month it would probably be a pretty useful system running parallel to what's going on now if for nothing other than having a closed thread that collates all the reported bugs lost in the din of poorly titled threads and replies 8 pages deep with useful bug reports that would otherwise go unnoticed.

Again, it doesn't have to be the exclusive way to get heard since the devs can pore over the threads we have now, and the idea that the 'council' is some uber l337 group is hardly the idea Ham is going for.

I dont think this forum is hard to read through at all, Id be surprised if the devs would think so. No chain of command, or couriers, needed IMO, thats just another bump in a straight road. Im all in for a reference mission for testing though.

Again, it doesn't sound like a 'chain of command' type thing, more of a side group that has access to a subforum where the devs can get a quicker collate of bugs without wasting time slogging through the majority useless posts in between.

Don't worry, nobody would be lording over anybody or firing off orders or keeping the devs from listening directly to you. Neither would the 'appointees' be selective as to what's important or not but merely a conduit to filter information. I wonder why everyone sees an idea like this and instantly overreacts like it's going to turn into an episode of Survivor: Cliffs of Dover where there's got to be some pecking order and they are at the bottom or something.

Whether it's actually useful or needed the devs could decide and personally I don't think it will be all that necessary until the current critical workload gets done and they can start rooting out the minor issues.

It's not hard to read through. For us.

But I'd say the dev's time would be better spent NOT having to scan through pages after pages of repeated bugs and all the paragraphs of discussion text around them. Bugs could be reported with a simple system of posting and the dev's could ask for clarification or reproduce-ability through them for us.

You never know, they prob already got something set up, they just dont tell whos watching the threads so that we dont hound them lol, prob laughing at this thread :)

Exactly what I think.

You really don't actually believe that Luthier is reading through the forum in the search of bug reports, do you? And I prefer somebody with good knowledge about the team, the work load, the REAL priorities for the game development (unequal to player priorities) and the possibilities of the game engine to read and filter out the necessary information than some self declared speakers.

Na theres no way lol, this is a good way to start a thread though:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=21528

tells you what is exactly in the tin, and makes it easy to find!

Exactly! No need for a council of stellar pigs!

Besides, I guess the mods can help out the devs for consolidating threads, move/copy posts/threads whatever.

I think, "The Council of Eternal Virgins" has a better ring to it. Also more realistic.

That and sooooo much more my good friend!



BOOBIES!!!!

Somebody wants to be part of a special elite of users. Thanks, but let's give that a big fat miss.

I agree with this entirely. But only if I have complete authority to ruthlessly lead alone.

I hereby declare that feedback is more efficient channeled through me, and that you have 30 days to all comply. Honor me with your silence as your first act of loyalty.

Gentlemen, do we want chaos? Do we want pandemonium that confuses us all? No, and I represent a better way forward. A clear and concise way in which the community can speak through me, and me alone.

Yes, I am a dictator of sorts, but you will fine me a wise and just benefactor. Together we shall do great things, and our first act, the palace you shall all build for me, will be a great tribute to our collective efforts!

I declare the first new forum rule be added: 'All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.'

:)

PS It's not a bad idea Mr H, but sometimes in life it's easier to ask for forgiveness rather than permission - perhaps just sum up some common points and present them?

Look at the top of the CloD forum front page. There's a reason to why the mods sectioned the forum like that. You guys are talking as if the devs can't take notes and leave/forget about the repetitive threads. Adding another system to an existing one is NOT simplifying.