Poll for less-saturated colours
 

Dear friends,

Recently Oleg put a new video onto his channel. It can be found here:


In this video, it is obvious that the graphics are less saturated then they are in game. Personally, I find the ingame appearance unrealistic, and not representative for the serious subject the game is handling. I am highly attracted to the colours in this video, though.

Therefore I have included a poll. Would you also like to see less-saturated colours, more comparable to what is displayed in the video?

This problem can easily be solved by a gamma slider within the game setup. This way, each player could get his prefered color rendition.
No rocket science, I remember, more than ten years ago that Quake had this very simple option.

Is it possible to obtain the same colors by simply adjusting the screen colors/gamma?

I'm also thinking at these Fred Miranda's actions for instance :

http://www.fredmiranda.com/VelviaVision/

http://www.fredmiranda.com/Warm-Cool/

More power to the end user is always better.

To me it looks like its overcast for the colours to be that dull,on a clear summers day colours will look brighter thats in direct sunlight.

Yes. Guys thinking about the saturation : LISTEN!

Can we agree that perhaps this saturation should be a direct consequence of more advanced weather features?

It has been stated over and over that the colours match quite well against a well-lit summerday landscape. However..... Local clouds, be it high altitude or low, or a lot of "dew" or vapour in the atmosphere would shield the light and create a darker, less saturated look.

I believe that would be the best immersion! My eyes don't deceive me on a warm summer day. Everything is more colorful.

When I first played CoD I was like, ouch.. that's a tad too bright for me. But the weather outside my home was rather dark and overcast. The next week the bad weather left and revealed sunny and bright green trees and grass. I was like, ok much better!


A dark sky for overcast/poor weather would definately add to the immersion!

I think many people make the mistake of taking desaturated WW2 movies and recent computer games at face value in regards to colors and setting. Walking the countryside on a bright summer day usually will result in very bright and "in your face" colors, very much like CoD currently presents.

What is lacking in this Sim so far is weather conditions with lots of clouds and generally less then ideal weather conditions, which usually are responsible for more desaturated color palettes. I hope these are properly added to the game once the dynamic weather system in the pipeline is implemented.

P.S. Gnah, Strike beat me to it.

You are just equally awesome! :cool:

I'm against it.
The world looked the same as today. Just because cameras back then weren't able to capture the true colors of the world around us, it doesn't mean the world looked less saturated.
It all depends on the light, in the real world as in the game. COD has, in my opinion, the most advanced lighting engine in a sim.
Once the new weather engine is released, we'll see more clouds in the skies and more clouds means less light getting to the ground and less bright colors of the terain.
The terain textures look a bit more like early-mid summer not late summer, but desaturating everything is not the solution.
After SDK is released, maybe we can get modified maps, with late summer/fall textures. That will get us a much better fix then just global desaturation of textures.

Oleg didn't make this video. A forum member called Biltongbru did. He has made some excellent videos with Il-2 (and now with CoD) and his attention to detail is amazing...he has even tried to source the best reproduction flight-gear available for the actors in his films (with a little bit of help :P )

So the effects seen here were probably added after the video was captured...nothing to worry about, gents!

Of course, if the greens were less "teletubbiesques", this would help.

+1

If I look outside on a bright sunny day my grass doesn't look like green plastic :)

+1 part2

Gamma slider in game would fix this all. I don't want to mess with it in video drivers.

England looked the same in 1940 as today, with 1,000s of coal burning factories, furnaces, mills and locomotives that no longer send all their soot into the air? I remember visiting Western PA when I was a kid growing up in Florida. Even on a cloudless summer day the scenery in the Allegheny River valley was quite a bit darker than Florida, even though there were ample trees and grass.

+1

Hit the nail on the head, this should change depending on if its suny or overcast, not be a fixed thing.

Colorful does not mean pastel.

Right. It's not the colors that are at fault, it's the fact that 40's Britain was shrouded in coal-burned pollution ALL THE TIME. Remember, every house had a fireplace, most had more than one. Each of those fireplaces burned coal. Add to that all the factories burning coal and there's a good reason it was grey. You know London was known as "The Smoke" right? And Edinburgh "Auld Reekie"? Almost 5000 people died in a one week period in London in the 50's just due to an episode of excessive smog.

Britain in the 40's was grey and dreary and dark. That's not Hollywood, that's reality.

Here's a great statistic: "There has been an astonishing hundredfold reduction in atmospheric particulate levels in London over the last fifty years and the air, in most respects, is cleaner in the capital city than at any other time since the middle ages."

I agree, the real world is in fact very colorful, and that movie sure looks cool but it's probably just because it's interpretating the image quality of what the camera filmed, there's too much hassle to desaturate parts of the game (a filter wouldnt do the trick since some things HAVE to be saturated)

Just tone down your monitor to whatever fits your taste :)

God, now this is the pollution !
Come on, it's just because we see the same rogntudju of vivid green which has been used for the past ten years from Russia, to Malaysia, from France to Norway, Japan and Tonga Bonga Islands, the same greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen argggggggggggggggggg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the atmosphere have its own color: blue. The bigger the distance the more blue the color. The horizon is more blue as the look down to earth. The higher flying the more blue part has the ground colors. Simple. Only physics.
sorry for my crap english :)

Yeah the grass always was greener here :)

http://www.remmane.no/bilder2/utsikt%20fra%20hytta.jpg

Go eat some green eggs and ham ;)

http://www.profilebrand.com/graphics...gs-and-ham.gif

Oh and top it off by listening to these glad fellows at the same time:

http://konsertoversikt.no/artistimages/greenday.jpg

Then you should be good to....

http://watermarked.cutcaster.com/cut...reen-Light.jpg

:cool:

Personally I'd like Oleg to choose how the colours should look. He has a better knowledge of photography and how things should look from the air than most people here, and I'd prefer us all to have the same settings. If there are gamma sliders etc, people will set them to show the enemy as clearly as possible, with no regard for historical accuracy.

And how many of you have calibrated your monitor?

A sect, it's a sect, the temple of the green God who sees colors from the sky better than Chuck Norris !!!

Voted NO.

I don't think it is simply the saturation of the sim that makes you "find the ingame appearance unrealistic". Occasionally I also find the landscape somehow looks slightly unrealistic. In my opinion the problem is caused not by the saturation of colours, but by minutely inappropriate hue and value (brightness) of the colours of land, grass, or trees.

http://www.stylemakeovers.com/image/colortree.jpghttp://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachm...3&d=1302838053

I believe a teacher of oil painting at Repin Academy of Fine Arts can solve the problem better. Not kidding. :-P

~

English countryside...
 

Attachment 5447

just an element to consider in this discussion.
My opinion is : it's not matter of saturation/desaturation or photorealistic render, the overall harmonization and visual appeal shoud be considered.
For sure each one has proper own taste or sensibility in this aspect, I'll be criticized on a well discussed topic but I still appreciate BoP. Ok it's not realistic, 'hollywood' filters may not be welcome and so on, but the general tuning works for me. For a certain period it was a valid alternative to the boring il-2 terrain where Kursk=Kent=Normandie=Guinea.

Cheers

"In my opinion the problem is cause not by the saturation of colours, but by minutely inappropriate hue and value (brightness) of the colours of land, grass, or trees. "

You could be right. This is perhaps why the game looks quite ok on the ground (Clodo would do a pretty good tank sim) and so strange, when in the air.

not exactly true...

a cold day has the sky looking a paler blue than a hot day, which is a richer blue and a scorcher over land mass causes the horizon, through heat haze, to appear as a very, very pale (even more to white) band. The time of day and season, also plays with the colour a bit... in winter for instance the sunset half of the sky turns a very pale turquoisey green, flitering to a rich almost indigo on the sunrise side.

http://www.islandwanderers.org.au/a%...back%20333.jpg


Higher altitudes has the sky paler than at sea level

This thread....and the previous one like it are proving how tenuous this idea is, too many differences of oppinion, let's just leave it as it is, and in time when the SDK's are out we will all be able to have purple grass if we want to.

i believe this has just poll has taken a turn, the colour police have not spoken. and well its time for you to callibrate your colour yourself \o/

You can adjust you colors in your nvidia control panel.

One other quick point. My rig's other main use it for iRacing. iRacing has a similar problem with the grass color, it's just not right. To compensate I set my monitor to the "warm" preset. When I fire up iRacing the colors look great. Might want to try that for COD.

NOOOOOOOO, such a slider is not present to prevent cheating online during night fighting missions...

in ROF we have post saturation option in the config.ini.....we can have that in CLOD why not?

All three above (as Zoom, machoo and mclean said). How many more ways do you want to adjust, it plus the easiest way is already there.....just change the time of day and you can have it as dark and flat as you want.

nvidia users, callibrate your colour with the inbuilt calibration tool. then set digital vibrancy to 40%.

other apps, 'tubes/ etc and sims look fine, colour wheels/ etc look fine... planes and vehicles/ buildings in COD look fine but but COD tree/ terrain looks far too yellow...

similar to A-10C Beta 4 when HDR was turned off.


I knock DV down to 40% and red turns brown

Ground Terrain, building,etc are over done and too saturated with warm colours ...... there are more pressing requirements at the mo but needs addressing at some point - its completely wrong and terrain does not blend with sea/sky scapes which are far cooler.

Read this :)


http://opticalillusion.files.wordpre...D468%26h%3D665

:grin: Thankyou Mr Ishihara!

Interesting poll result so far.

sliders in user interface for colors, saturation, contrast and gamma would be nice and satisfying for everyone

blue color of atmosphere isn´t "simulated" well in cod. Thats all. Without that you have the colors of the things you have when you are 1 meter in front of them. Far distances means: lots of blue atmosphere.

Go out and look if the world around you is greyish and less saturated. If you go with open eyes you will see that the colours in CoD are quite spot on. Much more spot on than any other flight sim or flight game out there.

Only in memory your mind makes these colours seem less saturated but your brain is producing an illusion. That's why you actually believe that less saturated colours were more realistic while they are not.

And don't look at movies: most of them use colour filters and are therefore fake. If you want de saturated images tweak your screen settings and allow the rest of us play with realistic colours.

Why is it so hard to some fanboys to accept the fact that gamma and color sliders would please everybody ?
The guys liking the pastel colors could so keep the pastel colors.
The guys not liking the pastel colors could also change them to their taste.
Choice ability is always good.

no, not necessarily









http://www.picturescolourlibrary.co....go/2305686.jpg


where are the bright green trees?

But darker trees you won't get with desaturated colours. What you will get is a desaturated picture of just everything. Even the fire fighter cars ...

For me the trees as they are look like this:

http://www.jesslaccetti.co.uk/upload...est-745061.jpg

Or like:

http://www.luftaufnahmen.com/images/insel_gr.jpg

I agree with the (probable) misuse of the word "saturated" colours and setting a slider would affect the entire sim... planes and all

but with your lower shot, I still don't see bright green trees :?:
perhaps the difference between film media and digital media done with a poor gammut?


dover

http://www.ulsterbustours.com/overvi...iew_thumb.jpeg


http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/galler...ar-db50916.jpg


http://www.millieduncan.co.uk/images...s-of-dover.jpg

I agree and I don't. I think it all depends on season, tree species, lighting and atmosphere how you see the trees.

I remember very well that when the first screeshots of CoD came out my first reaction was: But no, these colours are far too saturated! This looks like plastic. The next time I took the plane I payed special attention to the colours and had to admit to myself that they are not bad in the end.

P.S. On the lower image I don't know about filters but that you can apply to any image that you see on the net - including yours. What I see is that the tone of very many of the trees is overall similar to that of the gras and not or not considerably darker. A few others are darker, others are brighter.

And you may post as many pictures as you want I always can put forward that the optics in this picture are wrong (just as you did wrt my lower picture). Then again I have to remember the sight I had during my plane flight. Do the same and judge.

You misunderstood... I meant there is a difference in looking at a 35mm film shot and a digital shot which has been done using a poor gammut... this was not in relation to your presented image

yes, you could say what you will about filters and optics and I could say exactly the same to you and yours... but where is that going to get us?

if you think the bright green trees are accurate, that's for you... but there is image after image that will disagree with you and if you can't discern the difference between the ground and the trees in the shots, then you have something which needs sorting... unfortunately, defective colour vision can't be

Oh dear.................I 'live' in Dover, I'm a pilot and I've flown above, level with and below the cliffs of Dover, I have eyes (genuine Mk1) there is nothing I find offensive about the in game colours, this is the second thread on this subject and it's still going nowhere, I just hope the devs aren't paying any attention to this, god only knows what we might get in another patch when they have relevant issues to deal with, we should just wait until the SDK's are out and I've already said it....we can have whatever colour of grass we want then.

The terrain/buildings colour renditioning isn't quite right for me ( I live in rural Norfolk). If you have a Nvidea card (may also be available in CCC not sure) you can adjust the colour balance and saturation by checking the option to allow Nvidea and not the application control of colour . I lowered digital vibrance, gamma, increased brightness, etc and the in game rendering now suits me perfectly and much happier with it. I can also see enemy ac far more clearly at longer distances. I have to reset it back to default for IL1946 but problem solved.

Take a snapshot over terrain/buildings, open it up to full size and then make adjustments from your GFX user interface to change the snapshots image colour rendering to suit your preferences.

bingo!

No need to get personal, my colour vision is quite right me thinks. Your last line was well beyond acceptable.

"if you think the bright green trees are accurate, that's for you... but there is image after image that will disagree with you and if you can't discern the difference between the ground and the trees in the shots, then you have something which needs sorting... unfortunately, defective colour vision can't be "

Cant you do that in your video card manager

The video with less saturated colours is, in my view, decidedly less realistic than the ingame appearance.

A low level of saturation only obscures the real imperfection--or slight inaccuracy--of the colours (in terms of hue and value) in the ingame 3D environment, and, as a matter of fact, zero saturation can do it with the best effect, LOL.

--

Have to say this vid does look nice.

From the Gamespot review :


"... But it all seems so meaningless when you fly above a relatively bland-looking London or a garish green-yellow countryside ..."


http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sim/il-2-...er/review.html

They should use their screen setup if they don't like it.

I like the colours and for chrissake give the hollywood spoiled saturation sliders in the video settings and leave the realistic bright colours to those running around with open eyes ;)

Have they said they prefer the "save the private Ryan" filter ?

No.

They just said Clodo countryside colors are "garish".

your "realistic bright colours" (note the "bright colours" bit) aren't real world realistic though

replace "bright" with "UN-desaturated", you nit-picker you ;)

may I ask what monitor you run? if so... what monitor do you run?

swap the words? ... Freudian slip perhaps?

Who asked for "UN-desaturated" colors ?

Nobody.

No, unfortunately they asked for desaturation. They want to fly with greyish colours. You would know this if you had read the thread.

but... what monitor are you running, Stormcrow?

What does this help in this issue? We will again start a discussion about screen settings as we already had about fotos. Absolutely futile. That's your intention in asking about my screen. I as well may ask you about your screen in order to "proof" that you just have to buy a good screen.

Fact is that the colours I see ingame are close to what I see outside with the game as it is now. It is not perfect (heck, it's a video game) but desaturating it goes the wrong direction as everything will become desaturated - also the sunsets, the red firefighter car, the sky, the navigation lamps). Nevertheless I know that the colours are over all quite spot on (I grew up in the country side and I now live in a town with many parks and a lot of nature around. Thus I can compare on a daily basis. I also take flights regularly). Many posters agree on this if you read the thread closely.

why the resistance to relaying what monitor you run, Stormcrow?... I'm just curious


its easy, look I'll start if for you... I'm running a _ _ _ _ _ _ _ monitor


my specs are below and have been for a while.

true about installing a slider for saturation (but its more a hue issue though), would only affect all graphics in the sim... I've mentioned this before, plus some would use that to advantage to bring out planes flying over land to make them simple to spot from above

some poster might agree with you on the colour, Stormcrow... some posters and some reviewers, however, don't.

No, unfortunately they asked for desaturation. They want to fly with greyish colours.
++++++++++++++++++

Perhaps some guys asked for desaturation (like in the very good Wellington vid), just as an easy solution to get out of the "Teletubbies country".

If I had to choose between the "Teletubbies country" and the "Save the private Ryan" area, I would too choose the second one.

BUT I would very much prefer to simply get correct colors for the British countryside under a natural virtual rendition lighting (neither Velvia nor Kodachrome, but Provia, for the slides buffs).

I think the colours are more or less spot on, except for the landing strips themselves. The grass strips are, IMHO, too saturated and stand out way too much. I'm not sure that strips were actually mowed out anyway - weren't landing fields pretty much just that? A field of uniform grass, with some wear and tear for the dominant landing/take-off directions?

I don't understand why everyone is focusing just on the terrain.

Pick something that we know for definite the colour of.. RAF Roundels anyone?

On my screen the RAF roundels from most screen shots are (on my monitor at least) too orange. The blue seems wrong too.

Now winny, are you talking from the perspective of viewing these RAF Roundels on a colour calibrated monitor???

Just saying.