Monday (???) April 4 Development Update
 

Hello everyone,

Thank you all for your continuing support! Thought I'd update you on our progress made after the release date patch went live early on the 31st of March. We worked through the weekend to improve the game some more. I have to note that this wasn't anything unusual, most of the team has been working on a schedule like this for months. As I think I've mentioned somewhere, I've been working 7 days a week since mid-summer.

Our main priority, as stated before, is improving performance.

Here's what we've done as of the end of the day today.

1. Buildings are as fast as we can make them. That's it. I doubt we can improve them more.

2. Trees are still much slower than they can be, but we did completely reshovel the entire code to completely remove microfreezes. They're gone. The code is currently bruteforcing a lot of the stuff so it's not nearly as fast as it can be. We'll be optimizing it some more. Should not take a long time at all.

3. Misc bug fixes, as we can get to them, are also being put in. We've fixed the extremely unfortunate FMB oversight with the labels - it was the result of an overly zealous optimization effort last week. We've also done things to our Info windows, since they gave people more problems than we could ever possibly imagine. That alt-click, we still need to figure out what to do with it. Maybe even reverse the entire thing and make the cockpit alt-clickable and chat windows normal-clickable. I don't think we've ever done anything that confused the players more than these damned windows.

4. We've also finalized updates to the multiplayer GUI - see attachment for preview.

5. Unfortunately what seemed like an easy fix to the server search issue in steam still eludes us. Since I'm only allowed to admit to our own faults but not to other peoples' I can't say anything more about this.


The plan right now is to release an open beta version of the patch tomorrow night or the next day. It'll be a small archive you manually extract on top of your game's install. This is to allow the people to test the fixes. Since we've done some radical things in #1 and #2, we don't want to make the patch live to the entire world right away. We're hoping that everything will go smoothly and nothing new is found in the update, which means we can go ahead with our plans and push the update out to steam the end of the day Friday.

Our great hope that the Friday version will allow everyone to run the game smoothly and finally begin complaining about FM and DM and AI and skins and missions and GUI and landscape and the clouds and the weather!

Thank you Luthier!

Your typical humour is also present I see :P

Now we're talking :D

Sweet!

Thank you kind sir! Next fix should be ffb!!!

Thanks.

Good luck, truly.

The Alt click windows is fine once you get used to it...its not brain surgery :). I think a lot of people neglected to read the manual (it was in the manual wasnt it?):) Generally once you have it set up to your liking you don't need to touch it again except on rare occasions. If you reverse, and make the cockpit clicking using Alt it will be harder especially during combat where there is already a higher pilot work load. Thanks for the great update.....keep up the good work.

+1

Nice job Luthier !

We now know about the 7 steps you have to take in your plan to improve COD...
There are GPU SLI and CPU multithread that need to be adressed, but as you have certainly read in our posts, many of us wonder if COD is 64 bits ?
It is because we fear that if it is not, eventually memory management would be a bottleneck to the high performance PC we wish to build for COD...
Any comments ?

Thanks !

Thank you Luthier :grin:

Glad to see you've still got a sense of humour after all the forum vitriol!

thanks for the update, sounds great:cool:

Thank you Luthier.

Kankkis

Thank you for the efforts of you and your team. I know this will be an amazing sim for many, many years.

Here's my question. There have been numerous posts about sounds and I was wondering if you and your team consider them to be good and complete for now...or are they place holders while you address more important issues. The fly by sounds seem particularly in need of attention.

Your thoughts?

Luthier - I must add in my "bit" from down here in South Africa.

Firstly, the sim looks brilliant - the clips that have been posted show that you guys have once again produced something that has "raised the bar" by a massive amount.

I endorse what others have said on this forum - try and relax, take a breath or two and "re-charge your batteries".

You guys have shown amazing commitment and dedication to "tweaking" and fine-tuning IL-2, Forgotten Battles etc in the past - I'm sure that the community, that knows you guys, will be very patient.

Thanks (as always) for keeping us all informed and ware of developments.

First of all. THANK YOU, Luthier and MG guys!

Now, please DO NOT change the info windows focus on click, and the cockpit ones on ALT click, that would force us do in-game ALT clicks (ie with two hands instead with just one).

The people are confused about them because nowhere there's a clean and detailed explanation regarding how to use/customize them.

What we REALLY need regarding the info windows would be:
- a way to customize all text's colors (atm there are some which don't allow this (and the dark blue text is not so easily distinguished against the background)
- fix the bug forgetting the info windows' settings (I've set mine a few times, and now and then the my settings are just forgotten)
- add a digital info window for IAS/TAS, altitude, etc (as in old IL|2)

Also, please give us a BIG water only map. It should be a work of only 2 mins for your guys, but it will mean a lot to us.

Also,

Luthier,

Any news on dedicated server software for MP? Will it be part of the game or is it a separate program?

Thanks for update!

Thanks!

Luthier! Much Appreciated!!!

btw does the Horizontal Stabiliser Work :P

only messin S!

Thanks Ilya, great news :)

^THIS, damn how muuuch do I quote! :mrgreen:

good news, nice but brutally realistic humour. lol

so are these updates applicable with the epilepsy filter on or off. doesnt this itself pose a bigger problem for the development here ?

Great stuff! I'm sure you guys can start taking weekends off :) With so much new stuff for people to complain about, I'm sure the forum will be busy enough that you don't need to worry about another patch for awhile ;)

Great job luthier and Co! Put those labels back in that FMB! ooo yeah just like that....:cool:

Also, PLEASE release some more documentation (especially on the FMB) if possible, fumbling in the dark here.

building and tree collisions are very important to immersion and gameplay. also, visible propellar is another important aspect. what are you thoughts on this, luthier?

can you at least offer collision-based buildings and trees in the custom map editor so the community can create multiplayer maps with these? collision engine is in the game i assume and turned off. it won't make a difference in single player missions but in multiplayer people do get creative and use the trees to hide and out-maneuver the opponents.

As long as you guys are committed to this sim, I know it will be a big success.
Thanks for the update.

Great to hear Luthier.. Keep up the good work.. This flightsimulator is going to be the best ever thanks to you and your team..

Thanks Luthier! For all its bugs,I am LOVING CoD!

As Luthiers mentioned before, if trees has collision model it's really heavy and we want playable framerates, secondly there is possible choose treedensity, think what it causing in multiplayer when someones doesen't have trees and others have.

Kankkis

Great update, keep up the good spirits as far as that is possible in this dawn of mankind where all glasses are half empty and thrown into the face of hard working people like you ;)

One thing that I really am interested in and many others - are you really not going to add force feedback support to this game? One of the major swedish gaming sites just gave CoD a 3 out of 5 and the reviewer seemed completely baffled by the fact that FF was missing, and so do many of us others with G940 systems and MSFFB2 sticks in the cellar as backups. Sure - it is long down the list of priorities, but a simple statement like below is just fine:

"Yes, we are planning to add force feedback down the road after more important matters have been taken care of!".

Good luck this week! /Mazex

Thank you! Keep up the good work and try to take a few days off too every now and then.. taking some time off actually does some good to productivity! (trust me on this, I know :grin:)

Thank you Ilya for yours and your team's dedication and support! Please pass very best wishes to Oleg as well!

Brilliant!!! Thanks Luthier.

Thanks for your continued efforts and keeping us in the loop. I'm sure most of us are waiting with baited breath.


I'll go ahead and agree with this. The current system is fine and makes a lot of the secondary aircraft controls easily accessible by mouse, instead of having to map dozens more keybindings for things like altimeter calibration or gyro compass alignment.

What would be good to have is some form of extra documentation. This is not a small task so by all means focus on the optimizations first. From the FMB right down to flying specific aircraft, there's a lot of guesswork involved. For example, i can operate the fighters just fine with CEM and temperature effects enabled, but a couple of days ago i spent 10 minutes each on the Ju88 and Blenheim and i couldn't even start the engines :-P

A lot of us are having fun (in the usual flight-simmer masochist way :-P ) trying to figure out things on our own, but it would be good to have even a basic text file for each flyable with the start-up checklist and a generic level bombing checklist for the bombers.

Also, some things may be tied to difficulty settings and we don't know anything about it yet. For example, a lot of people report that level stabilizer isn't working. It could be tied to the "realistic bombing" option in the difficulty settings, but we don't know for sure until we try it (now that's an idea for my daily "discover the features" session :grin: )


Finally, since we're all only human and i don't like being ungrateful when you're obviously so engaged in improving the sim, let me say that maybe the entire team should take a break once a week.
Ok, the first round of optimizations was time critical stuff so that when it's released in the western hemisphere it will be able to get positive reviews, but once you get it to a playable state give yourself a break. You know your schedule and what needs to be done better than us, but i'm sure you guys could take each Sunday off once you sort out the optimization patch. It will not only let you rest, it will probably enable you to look at things with a better perspective and be more productive too.

Thanks for making this sim, even with its initial problems it's much deeper and involving than anything before it.

Thanks Luthier & Team.

Thanks for the update! looking forward to test the patch.

Winger

what about the dedicated server?

Not a word about a problem that is preventing many from even starting the game:

Main begin:
System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: startIndex cannot be larger than length of string.
Parameter name: startIndex
at System.String.InternalSubStringWithChecks(Int32 startIndex, Int32 length, Boolean fAlwaysCopy)
at p5x2QOMqHgjhjSidhRa.Kd1Y1CMLC6FaI4t4roB.TsG6QNM0e5 PGQcF55j5.VEv157j24(String )
at p5x2QOMqHgjhjSidhRa.Kd1Y1CMLC6FaI4t4roB.TsG6QNM0e5 PGQcF55j5.JE0P0cBDD()
at lYr8vDW0WoayHXbhMI8.ingTorWgsvQJcaJ8jtL.QJp04utlD( )
at lYr8vDW0WoayHXbhMI8.ingTorWgsvQJcaJ8jtL.fpPJ6vs2S( Boolean )
at lYr8vDW0WoayHXbhMI8.ingTorWgsvQJcaJ8jtL.OoWrRI4i2( )
at WxbfMWMnOZRKUmSTbCM.oHlsKeM8qJEPeShxIFN.JqRxmYK1Fa LPTowlK6Rm()
at WxbfMWMnOZRKUmSTbCM.oHlsKeM8qJEPeShxIFN.qqxPtNrULr W()
at p5x2QOMqHgjhjSidhRa.Kd1Y1CMLC6FaI4t4roB.VG97GRKRyD Zaj6Zsi181(Object )
at p5x2QOMqHgjhjSidhRa.Kd1Y1CMLC6FaI4t4roB.BvX7tt2qo( Kd1Y1CMLC6FaI4t4roB , String[] , String , String )

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9916878/cod_error.jpg

+1

I'm having a tough time flying without any feedback from my stick, I'm spinning and stalling far too much because the aircraft are not talking to me. For those who have used it FFB is as important as TrackIR (which I also use and you've done a great job with implementing that) and it's NOT a cosmetic triviality. I'd be happy with a basic lift and shift of the IL-2 FF models if practical but a revised and superior version would be better still.

As has been said, please take some time off (and your team). I'm a software developer myself (for a major e-commerce company) so I know how it is but burn out is not helpful to anyone. Good luck.

Dear Sirs of the Cliffs of Dover development team,

I would just like to say thank you for all your hard work over the last 5 or 6 years on this title, thank you for working the kind of inhuman hours a person only works when they really love something, thank you for your continued efforts to improve the game.

I can only take my hat off to you gentlemen for your continued efforts to improve what I can only imagine is an incredibly complicated flight sim and thank you for the work you have done which has provided me with a huge amount of fun this evening in spite of its teething troubles and will no doubt continue to provide me with huge amounts of fun for many moons to come.

Once the panic has settled and your team are back to working 5 days a week and hopefully 9 to 5, and after you have all had a nice rest for a few weeks or months :) it would be great if you could take another look at the sounds in the game and see they could be better but thats a request that as i say is FAAAAR down the list of priorities and after a nice holiday for you all

I wish you all the best and thank you once again

Good luck with this patch, it is obviously HUGELY important that the performance is brought under control. We, the community, can live with any number of bugs, missing features etc. as we know they will eventually be fixed but the game simply has to be playable before anything else even remotely matters.

I concur with the others. Once the patch is in and it's playable, take some time off! Use the community to create the documentation for example, use us to beta test your fixes. As much as folks like to gripe, WE'RE HERE TO HELP!

:grin:

not until that list is completed and there is a dedicated server.

Exactly, the buffeting in a real plane is what makes me stop pulling the stick back too when doing a high G +60 degree turn... Knife edge turn fights in CoD is scary business when used to IL2 where that 109 is just lovely with an FF stick on the edge of stall with the leading edge slats wedged open and the plane on the outer rim of the envelope ;)

I'm sure those "experten" IRL where heavily dependent on the buffeting to know when they where pulling too hard trying to get their sights on those agile Spits!

Nothing fancy is needed, just a centering spring that gets stiffer with increasing speed and a simple buffeting effect when close to stalling is fine with me. No need for vibrations from cannons or vibrations when running over rough ground etc.

luthier: regarding items #1 & #2: simply release a N. Africa map and a bf 109F-2. Problems solved :D

Better early than never! Thanks for the update.

Thanks for the update, and take some days off

The beta patch you're releasing before Fridays steam patch , will it be available for all of us to download and try or just for 1c beta testers ? If it is for all of us will it be posted here?

Many Thanks

sg

If i got it right it will be accessible to everone.

Winger

I just find it a real immersion killer having "ghost" trees that you can fly through. Personally when comapring these to the "Oleg" trees of Il2 46 that you can hit but can't see from certian angles I'd go for the old trees every time as there is currently no real hinderance or danger to low flying bar the bad FPS and microstutters.

CoD shows some massive potential and I'm really looking forward to it being flyable. Let's hope this patch goes towards making that happen and of course - thank you all for your hard work.
V

Ironic the "speed trees" are slowing it down.

i hear the ground is hard and that altitude above you is fairly worthless.

confirm/deny

+2

Good work, thanks for the info, keep you head up!

Please FFB

Agree with this.

Thanks again Luthier. Looking forward to the patch and the later fixes as outlined in the roadmap. Cheers :)

It was stated before game released that FFB was going to be in the game. It was also in the old IL-2 of course. So by using a little brain power you could assume that YES. FFB will defeinitly be added to the game after more important matters have been taking care of.

I think the conf.ini actually references FFB, so there's a little bit of an indication that they have/had intentions to add it to the game.

Thanks for the update Luthier.

Loving CloD already.

BobTuck.

is there any word on SLI support and core optimisation?

I only ask because many of us who built high end machines specifically on the promises made around this game now find the game unplayable.

Thanks Luthier and the rest of the guys, keep up the great work! Can't wait!

before thx i will wait the patch!

if it make all it must do...then i will be the first to thx you all!

but i wait friday to see!

On Target... Great news

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9SpHLyZuP0

Thanks for the update.
I bought the Sim friday. Most of all to make sure that your guys will get paid and hope that you will have the energy to continue working on the successsor to our beloved IL-2 1946. As COD is now, it won't replace 1946 right away. But looking at all the features I do see its potential.

Goodspeed

This post addresses SLI (and I assume xfire): http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...t=20472&page=2.

Thanks Luthier for keeping us posted on updates
 

Appreciate this update Luthier, I am just working quietly on familiarizing myself with every thing and getting the cockpit controls working well. The FMB label fix will be much appreciated.
DFLion

Roll on friday great stuff.THANKS Luthier . ill be staying in that night ..wife go to bed ..dam i arnt got a wife ..

thanks for good news :)

One question?
Will there be sound update(especially outside cockpit) for CoD if so when is it likely? or is it up to community?

thanks for keeping us informed... we may seem like a pain at times...:grin: The progress sound promising and I can hardly wait to test the beta... ;) THX

ps. If steam is going to drag the chain about MP... it might be wise to help the Hyper Lobby guy get it working.....

the web is being filled with bad reviews :/

Hmmm, i'm getting an idea here...wasn't 3d clouds a setting that could be enforced by the server in IL2? I seem to remember that servers used to run with the simple clouds initially, then when people upgraded after a couple of years they started turning up the detail and everyone who joined the server had the same clouds. Maybe something similar can be done for CoD?

If trees get collision detection in the future maybe the server can set the amount of trees to a setting that's playable for all (for example, low or medium after the optimizations are done), then everyone will see the same amount of trees and have the same collision detection.

On another note, according to Luthier's and Nike-it's posts, it seems that one of the most taxing things for the PC is not only the buildings and the tress, but most of all the building/tree shadows.

I turned down land shadowing to low (i already had forest to very low and building distance to low) and i got very playable frame-rates except for the stutters on my i7 920, 3GB RAM and Ati 4890 1GB, so i'd say that there's definitely hope. The only thing that puzzles me is that i still have stutters over water when approaching other aircraft (or using the zoom view) but i guess that's because of my low RAM and the probable VRAM bottleneck, so i'm going to wait for the patch after the one we're getting this week that will move rendering to a dedicated core before i start thinking that something is wrong with my configuration and/or settings.

Just finished flying the low level bomber intercept quick mission, 6 Spitifre IIs vs 9 Do 17s, and apart from the stutters everything else was brilliant even when i was flying above land on my way to home base. Heck, i even managed to get three kills and land safely, whereas before tweaking my settings i always crash-landed due to getting freezes on finals :-P

If the stutters are fixed and we get 15%-25% extra FPS from the Friday patch, the sim is definitely playable. Sure, some people will still demand that they be able to max everything and have 60 FPS on mid-range rigs, but for the majority it will be very enjoyable with a few settings turned down a notch or two.

Jibo

What do you do for fun, drown kittens?

driven by the console mentality.

i dont read reviews of any kind frankly, be it cars, movies, beer, wines or games etc.

i dont give a rats azz about what some random stranger thinks and i certainly wont take the advice.

might as well walk down to the train station at 2am and ask the local wino what you must spend your money on? TELL ME WHAT TO DO RANDOM SOMEBODY!

i see for myself, and decide future moves accordingly.

thats why test drives, wine tastings, trailers and demos exist?

after IL2 my purchase of this title was absolutely certain, damn the reviews, tells about as much of the product as the colour of the paint on a car does.

sadly, so many marketing hypnotised prone to instant hysteria types who had an interest in the genre dont have the ability to lift their head and think independantly about what the sim is now, and what the devs are working to make it.

its all about instant gratification.

Next Big Thing.

Can't wait for beta! :wink: I hope it will be announced here.

Thanks for the update!

great news, i can imagine that a few people are eating thier hats right now..;)

Hi luthier and MG team,

first of all thanks for the hard work and the new patch for Friday.

Really take a rest for some days.


I know there is much work to do but I REALLY LOVE COD!!!!:-P

Its great!:grin:

Great news, and very much appreciated!

Looking forward to testing things *dons the Beta-testing lab-coat*

lol

Yay, thanks for the update! I'm looknig forward to trying the beta, as right now I have massive stutters and microfreezes.

thx for the update, glad to hear :)

Thanks for the update!

Just as my faith wavered for a second, your sense of humour reminds me that really, you and the other people at 1C really do understand this community and all of its little quirks.

Thanks for not hating us, despite the number that come over as hating you.

Hmmm, Can't wait for Ubi to deliver "The" game, ordered in Feb, anyone in the UK received there's yet from this company??????.
Great stuff team, you are the people to get it sorted, and do take everybodies advice and take time to relax.

All very good news indeed...

still i will buy the game when and if its a bit more mature or lets say when my checklist is done:

1. FFB support, i will not buy a flight sim without FFB support. Not even CoD.
2. Crossfire and excessive Vram usage fixed (having a 5970 which is a very good and expensive card which i still pay off)
3. True multicore support
4. No more stutters over land at least with medium settings
5. Being able to fly over London (or other settings) at least in medium settings and framerates above 25...

As soon as those specs are met i will buy the game and gladly accept all the other glaring bugs, omissions etc. and be patient until they get fixed.
But i am NOT buying a game that i cant even use properly and i am really too tired of fiddling around with settings again to make something playable. I have done that for many years with Il2, i am done with that kind of tinkering to find workarounds for simply bad programming.

I like the team and history of the IL2 series so far and i will be a loyal customer again, buying all stuff and addon etc. when i can see that they are actually are able to cure the problems and develop the game into at least 50 % percent of what was promised.
Despite its great cockpits and modells in general and more advanced FM/DM/engineM to me the game at its current state is a big step BACK from Il2.
Max 6x6 or so DF over water, no real campaign, just a few static missions...no big flights possible (and that in a BoB game!!)

No tree collision... i beg you pardon...how ridiculous is that...no FFB...and what is really the worst is that it simply doesnt use the PC ressources which are available and thus cant deliver big battles...it has great stuttering but doesnt use the RAM fully, it doesnt use 64 bit... , the engine is only semimulticore...

And i dont buy into the trees damage models would kill the framerate even more... ROF has it and it works flawless even on much weaker systems then the average has here...and it also uses speedtree for generation as far as i ve read.

Ok, sorry i got carried away... i wish you good luck Luthier and team and reckeck Cod in a month or two... we will see then... maybe it will a nice christmas present to myself...

got mine on the 30th, but it still shows as awaiting despatch when i check lol

i dont think they really know what they are doing over there lol:confused:

Agree on both counts.

FF is important, especially on 'full real', where you really need to know when you're pushing the envelope. For good reason aircraft are specifically designed to ensure that pilots receive accurate control force feedback.

As for working 7-days-a-week since summer, that's your call, of course, but I hope 1C's rewarding you well!

Still, now that I'm passed the launcher.exe problem (still don't understand why btw), I think the game's going to be an absolute winner. Once again a benchmark game for the genre.

R

No change there then :) I got mine last week. No email and "in process" status.

+10000, making cockpit alt+clik will made them unusables, alt click windows works wel for me, if you want to change i would use double click or something similar, if you want to made the user used with windows, name the window alt+Lclick to edit by default, so noone can miss it.Or ad a ingame info menu, were you explain these features.
I think this is one of the most cool features from Clod.I have configured my ui to a more stetical and practical.
The bug i would focuse more its the delay flyingmodel-gunnery that makes me crazy.
And antialiasing!!!!!

Well said.

Thank you very much for the update, it sounds like brilliant progress. Great job on the working godawful hours while keeping a sense of humour!

I hope I'm not being tedious but, again, please make sure you tackle this problem for the patch - you'd be amazed at how many bugs I can put up with, but not being able to play is a bit much ;):

Multicore cpu optimization!!
 

MULTICORE CPU OPTIMIZATION!! None of my cores get near 100%

What about people that cant play the game full stop, were is our fix, patch?
:evil:
Link to our problems
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=20211

He makes a good point. Bad reviews turn away new sales and the extra money this game needs to continue.

Still no explanation has been offered as to why it was released in such a terrible state.

I hope they can fix it. I so want this to be a success but I have a bad taste in mouth about promises made not fulfilled.

Does it matter as long as it is patched? Better early than never.

hes saying that the early release of a product( cliffs of dover) can be damaging to a "potential" new buyer especially in the state its in now.. It doesnt matter to people who are already involved in the il2 series as we know what to expect, but to someone who has never seen the il2 series before can be damaging because they are more likely to read reviews and base that review on whether they will spend thier hard earned cash on it. Therefore 1c miss out on the potential of another sale. After all mud sticks.

I dont think that 1C will be able to comment or discuss this subject ;)

Thanks Luthier!!!
PS: whispering*pssst pssssst we also need a FMB manual!!!!

Thanks Luthier,

PLEASE DON'T change the cockpit clicking to Alt+Click etc..

The info window took me several minutes to work out but it's fine once you get the hang of it.

After a while and after some more patches, word-of-mouth, which is by some considered the best marketing available, will attract more people and hopefully some review sites are at some point compelled to have another look at it. Look at the success EVE and WOW have, although MMORPG's and not flightsims, they are never finished and we can't compare the initial release with today. Bugless software doesn't exist, the community drives the developers and as long as we support the devs, there is hope. If I'm not mistaken the IL2 series are the best combat flight sims in existence, and only because we the community recognized it's strong points and provided positive energy and money. Otherwise support and development would've ended long ago.

So I have no doubt CoD will mature, problems will be solved, and old errors will be taken care of. For example, after the performance issues and lack of FFB, sound probably is the weakest point of CoD like it was in the IL2 series. It's probably the most difficult for the team to solve, and maybe requires a new (expensive) philosophy (= tech) and for the consumer: high-end hardware ... because the technology must be out there (or is already at the studio but comes with a patch in the future).

The best evolved parts which logically are the strong points of the sim are the visuals, CEM, DM and FM. I hope AI as well - don't have the sim yet. These are the concepts that make this engine a landmark and hopefully the basis for the next 5 to 10 years. With this potential, I have no doubt we'll have graphics and sound indistinguishable from real life 10 years from now.

totally agree. At first i hated them but now i love them. Tweak and move them where ever you want them. Re-size windows, change font size. They are simply put great. If you want 3 lines voice chat from squad members just re-size the window. It's that easy.

Luthier, Don't change them :)