New Multiplayer Maps
 

Hi everyone,

As you probably know by now, Cliffs of Dover will ship with five maps - one large English Channel map with France and England intended for historical missions, and four small multiplayer maps not based on any historical locations meant for less meaningful online free-for-alls.

Our community, being our community, was not entirely happy with this.

We will be happy to create a few simpler maps intended for more meaningful multiplayer modes, that is, something suitable both for FFA and for coop/war modes.

We will work to create these maps quickly, so expect more of a "inspired by xxx" than "meticulously recreated xxx" in terms of historical accuracy.

This is your chance to offer your opinion and ask for content.



The ideas we have so far were:

A. 1/2 or 1/4 version of the "Channel Jump" - scaled down map based on the region around Dover and Calais.

B. Battle of France-esque map focusing on some existing land battle area with airfields from two sides not split by water.

Please sound off on these or suggest your own!


Some details of these future maps:

1. They will not be meticulously historically accurate, nor will they be as detailed as the English Channel map.

2. Their size would ideally be no more than about 100x100 km.

3. They should not require new landscape textures, objects, or trees, i.e. they cannot be desert or snow or jungle.

4. They do not have to be historical. But if they are, they have to make sense with our existing plane set.

ROFL i had to laugh, its good you have the patience of a saint and humour. kind of ;) :D

The ideas we have so far were:

A. 1/2 or 1/4 version of the "Channel Jump" - scaled down map based on the region around Dover and Calais.

Deffo im happy with this!

B. Battle of France-esque map focusing on some existing land battle area with airfields from two sides not split by water.

Deffo im happy with this! sounds a great idea!

My suggestion: Use Guernsey and Jersey as bases for LW to take of from to attack SE coastline. (This would mean France not needed to be on the Map.) And Earlier, use them as British mid channel bases for attacking France bases (Therefore no need for SE England to be on the map.)
Some history here for some kind of not quite historic mission possibilities http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupat...hannel_Islands

Some details of these future maps:

1. They will not be meticulously historically accurate, nor will they be as detailed as the English Channel map.

Fine with me so long as its half beleivable, sorry but the fantasy maps included are not beleivable in the slightest.

2. Their size would ideally be no more than about 100x100 km.

Fine.

3. They should not require new landscape textures, objects, or trees, i.e. they cannot be desert or snow or jungle.

Good.


Thanks Luthier for your time, were gonna love the maps dearly, and will be on them all the time online if they are created. I know this for sure. :)

Even before we have the game we are getting goodies.... thanks Luthier and team, there are some of us here that appreciate all your hard work, even if we aren't as vocal as the doom and gloom merchants.

What I've seen so far is stunning. :)

Nice that sounds fantastic, but I want to try the normal map before voting on a 1/2 or 1/4 scaled map :D.

appologies if Guernsey and Jersey are not on the large map and that section of France. I opened my mouth before i spoke..., If that is the case, then maybe we could have the Cherbourge-Octeville bit, with maybe a 5 minute flight to the Isle of Wight/Bournemouth Area. Seems to be 2-3 bases in that area on the brit side at least.

When flying avarage speed 400 km/h and you have only 100 km road - you will pass 100 km side in 15 minutes. If we will get 2 planes coming 400 km/h from opposite side of map they will meet in 7 minutes of flight.

It would be rather small maps to play and quite claustrophobic but still better then joky island or jurasic maps.

Dont think such was expected by most old IL2 users.


BTW surly not in theme but i wonder also about performacne (speed, climb, turn) of BOB planes in COD. Looking in data and charts in COD manual i see very wrong and inaccurate data for these planes. I thought 1C will make better research and give more effort in these case.

Luthier, thank you for not turning a blind eye, and thank you for making it up for the KGB style release :P

A "Dunkirk" map would be very interesting.

British rear guard actions as the main forces head for the beach.

RAF units fleeing for bases in England under attack by the Luftwaffe.

Attacking the evacuation fleet, or defending it.

Of course it would be nice to have some Armee de l'Air units, say a Curtiss Hawk 75...

(I can dream can't I?)

I personally think a map with HEAVY defence, i mean LOTS and LOTS of AA and LOTS of fighters backing it up and then the other team has to BOMB the crap out of the cities defences. This but in small scale, so the action is constant.

Constant action = interest for bigginers. Its kind of boring having to fly around for 3 hours to then get into a dog fight and then RUN out of fuel mid way.

I still dream of 64 vs. 64 Dogfight LW Vs. GB on the large map. If its possible. Full real settings, sometimes finding enemy, sometimes returning to base (navigating by the dodgy compass and local knowledge) low on fuel after a fruitless search. Thats as real as it gets IMHO. And whats its all about. :)

I like both of the idea's you have listed. The land map and the smaller channel battle are appealing to me.

I'm sure somebody will come up with something better but what about some time of scramble(RAF) type mission where the RAF gets "x" number of airfields to send fighters up and try to stop formations of German bombers and fighters. Radar would give them information on when and where to intercept. If the bombers hit the airfields they could put then out of service limiting the number of fighters the RAF is able to launch. Giving the advantage to the side winning the battle.

I'm unsure if spawning in the air is the best idea...it's probably better for both sides to have a runway to return for fuel and re-arm so people don't go kamikaze. The majority of a players score should be based on returning and landing alive (in addition to air/ground target hits) ...this will keep the realism factor HIGH. You said before the option to spawn on the ground or in the air is already in place, so it's up to the server operator as to how they choose to play.

Thanks for giving us some positive news on the multiplayer front and for updating us on the status of things.

Not to detract from your idea, but seems what Luthier is looking for is maps. I believe that with the FMB you could make changes to the game type on a map.

Thanks for this Luthier!

When I saw what maps we were getting I was both very happy to see them but a little disappointed at not having something else to work with.

There are two or three possible maps that I'd like to see where I can forsee using them to make something meaningful on the UK-Dedicated series of servers. Just to be clear the maps we run are historically based and we'll use the actual maps when possible but the idea is to still cater to fast action dogfight fans so we try and keep the flight times down to about 5-6 minutes to action at the most and often much shorter.

So I'd love to see ...

1) A half scale or quarter scale Dunkirk map. This provides lots of options for dogfights over the channel, attacks on convoys, covering the beachhead in France, etc. Hopefully flexible enough so that we could have the RAF fly from France and fight with the Germans also in France or go cross channel.

2) A France map that you also mentioned with much less water and more land to land operations.

3) My other suggestion would be something that encompasses the later section of the Battle of Britain during the late summer of 1940. Something where we have a English city or larger town area plus airfields as possible targets and perhaps some sort of clever way for the Germans to either air start or have a nearby island to land at. The idea here obviously is to have the skies over England during that period where the Germans have an obvious city (mini London or something :)) or couple of larger areas to bomb.

That'd be my 0.02 cents for something that we would practically be using on servers hopefully sometime soon after Cliffs comes out.

if it will work, im also will prefer flying on the big map ;)

anyway, two possible examples of 'historical' maps:

Dover-Calais
http://www.franky.fliegerhospital.de...-CalaisMAP.jpg

Isle of Wight - Cherbourg
http://www.franky.fliegerhospital.de/CherbourgMAP.jpg

the maps are small (the shown mapgrids are 50kmx50km !). But attack on channel ships, costal Airfields and Radarstations are possible with these maps.


In total, the given planeset (beside the Spitfire ;) ) would well fit in a Greece Spring 1941 map. But i guess, that is too much work !

Suggested Map area
 

Luthier, appreciate this opportunity to give you some thoughts on a new map area.

I put together a 'Battle Map' when I was creating the 'Big Show'. A lot of historical air fighting took part in this area after BOB. The 'Battle Map' shows Pierre Clostermann's first mission over France with the actual route, German fighter threats and Allied diversions.

Apologies for my 'hand drawing'. I hope this map gives you some good ideas.

DFLion (one more day to go in OZ)

:cool:Great to see you post this and ask our special community!

I really like what ideas you have so far. To save time I think the best solution is to "crop" pieces of the full-scale map so we can fly on smaller pieces of it. (Not like the old "Online" maps where you only removed all objects outside the online-grid, but actually have smaller cut-outs that have no surroundings (like inf-flat terrain).)

A lot of beginners will appreciate the ability to takeoff and be in the action as soon as their wheels are up. These maps would also attract people with lower-end systems because they would require less resources.

In fact, perhaps a "sandbox" map consisting of two airfields and 2 small towns or something would make an ideal testbed for trying out new aircraft, features, missionbuilder things without excessive loading and required resources. I really appreciate the ability to have an "Empty" map for testing purposes!

So far the best idea of a smallsize 1:1 or 1:2 multiplayer map I can think of is just a small "channel" map. Have a little english coast, and a little french coast and you have the "Miniature battle of britain" map with water separating the teams. This allows a variety of missions ranging from anti-shipping to air patrols and raiding homebases/adjacent cities and or factories.

For the online campaign style maps, the full-size historical one would be sweet with 64v64 players :cool:

Just my two cents ;)

I vote for this, even without Armee de l'Air units, it will give some good ground pounding action.

How bout some throwback maps from old il2? There was one squarish looking map that had a small lake in the middle with a base next to it. You know....the one....

I really look forward for that. Current online maps don't seem too appealing to me and the British map is too big and heavy to play it online.


I think you have the winning idea.

~S~

About the maps... I am not gonna point any single place because I know that within 2 years time all WW2 fronts will be covered so my idea is to be just consequent and:
- if there is proper flight engine with real issues, real flight feeling, real fuel usage give us maps in real size with real cities and historic accuracy
- if there is already historic base of that game give us a chance to do it online and play a bit with history, imagine how much fun will give it to history based virtual squadrons
- If you already implementing online freak maps :), think about low spec users, not everyone can afford 1000euro machine

That's my first thoughts, thank You for giving us chance to be in it...

I like Frankyboys two cutdown versions of the main map as a really quick fix...
Dunkirk would require from the ground-up work but is an excellent suggestion for some tactical groundpound action as a break from the air to air (plus anti shipping) of BoB missions.
If Franky's suggestion is easy to implement (don't know) then a bit more time could be had for a Dunkirk map.

Must say that I'm really appreciative of 1c's response to the filter issue as well as this one! Thanks v much :)

Count me as another vote for Dunkirk! Lots of targets for Stukas, and scrambling for CAP and air superiority over the area. Furthermore, there can also be some german ground troops pushing into the place, giving allied bombers a task too.

Alternatively, there should be some material somewhere in the BEF's France campaign that tied in air support, and it might get people started on looking at what can happen ground-war wise... :)

So with all the historical maps for COD covered, we should focus on what make a fun multiplayer map. Not everyone cares bout if this tree is in the right historical place. I wish I could make my own maps! Like old sim city style, were you made mountains and played with geography and stuff. I know, wrong game. I can dream right?

You've given us a Su-26. . . why don't you give us a Red Bull style air racing track. Maybe a section of the Thames with a lot fewer buildings and some pylons. Something to get us into the mood for air racing. I'd also love to see who'd win between a Su-26 and the best the RAF/Luft has to offer.

Another idea is a map with some geography to make things interesting. I'm talking about a small map with some canyons, some cliffs, mountains, valleys, and maybe even some high and low bridges that we can go through. Anything to make low-level dogfights more interesting. Basically I want a map where if you're right on a guy's tail and too focused on your cross-hairs he's going to lead you right into the side of some manner of landmass or structure.

Think of the opening of Jurassic park when they are arriving at the Island by helicopter. I want a treacherous landscape that is more dangerous than the people you're flying against.

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTb-dvAbz0A

The Dunkirk type map is an excellent idea. It would not have to be super detailed:
A few docks.
Small town.
10 ships of various sizes.
Friendly and enemy ground units including a few tanks, trucks, AA emplacements.
2 airfields to take off from.

That would be enough to do some good old fashioned "Bomb runs."

I really dream for the map editor to come out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KozuhKXGDoY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7CPSMn9iQA

I like the ideas about "cutting up" or cropping the larger historical map into smaller slices. That way we still get accurate scale and detail, just in a smaller portion to keep the action high as well as the realism in a fps friendly environment.

But yes flying on the huge map will be amazing.

Ilya already said there is little sense in that, and for various reasons. Here's the link.

I personally like the larger maps to get into position and just loiter until you see someone and pounce. So at least 1/2 scale of the English Channel.

I would like to say that I agree with a Dunkirk map of some kind. That'd be great.

That would be bad a$$! Flying between walls like that would be intense. Hope nobody makes refernce to the trench run in star wars...

I have to concur I like Speculum Jockey's map ideas as fun asides as opposed to serious, and a completely different flavor from those already included. The valley idea sounds particularly interesting if it is doable.

A flat, featureless sandy dersert map with very simple airfields. Maybe a bit of coast too. ;)

Sounds like a great idea, Luthier! Thanks for the update.

Fafnir_6

Old video. Let me guess, map editor got takin out like other features?

I think we need that 1:1 map to be modifed so that it is playable online. The

Battle of Britian lasted roughly 6 months. I thought this game was going to be

about playing long lasting online campaign to recreate the BoB? Am I missing

something? "128 players online to recreate the Battle of Britian" or something to

that effect was said in the marketing of the game. You really can't do that on a

goofball map or on a butchered channel map.


P.S. I didn't read this whole thread. Just the part about the map not working

for online play. Sorry if I repeated anything others may have said already.

I'll third this idea, especially if there's more to the map than a canyon network. The engine supports tunnels, right? Let's have some of those to fly through, along with any other challenging/creative ideas you can come up with! Would make dogfights extremely interesting.

A race map sounds interesting too.

Of course, this all becomes unimportant when you release the map editor. It won't matter how many you supply, as we'll be able to crank out our own to our hearts' desires, each tuned to our own preferences. Can we get a timeline for that? I can't wait to play with it and see what sort of crazy stuff's possible.

Thanks!

I think you misunderstood something. The main large historical map will work according to Luthier (link) but wouldn't really be in anyway appropriate for big quick as you can furball deathmatches, or quick pick up and play missions. He is specifically asking for ideas for small intense dogfight or straight to the action maps.

I liked the idea of testmap, racemap and the smaller Canal map or maps. I don´t fly that much online (may change in the future) but I do like to make big missions on smaller maps on my on in FMB. What I have been missing in IL2 is the fun maps that are still usable, like the race map and a map with mountains, canyons, cliffs, valleys and such. I like the idea that there would be a map that would really be a really really hard to fly even without enemies (for example make few places that has winds blowing hard, cloudcover so low that you could not see much, mist in the valleys etc etc.).

Okay, sorry. I thought he was implying our computers couldn't handle it because of ram or whatever and bunch of players online. I know in IL-2 they made "lite" versions of maps. But if this 1:1 map works as is, that is good news.

Ah I see what you were talking about. He was referring to flicking through viewing planes. If you were wanting to go through and view all the planes in external mode, and all the planes were taking off from different (ram cached) sectors then each time you went to view another plane you're PC would have to dump the ram's cached memory and load up the new sector that the plane you want to view is in. It is unlikely that for a large on going historical campaign that you would have every plane taking off from a completely unique (from each other) airfields and sectors.

Essentially what he was saying is your RAM loads (caches) all the information for your sector, but if you switch to external view and start viewing other planes that are in sectors that are different from your own the cache has to be dumped and the new sector loaded, so if you have 128 planes in 128 sectors and you want to go through and view each one individual you will have to load up a new sector each time (this takes time) you switch to view a new plane.

If you have say (as would be likely in a historical campaign setting) 128 planes in 2-4 sectors and you wanted to view them then at most you would only have to load 4 sectors (assuming each flight group is in it's own sector), so if your flight group was all leaving from sector A and had 32 planes you could view each of them without having to load up a new sector, but if you wanted to view the 32 planes in sector B you would then have to load up sector B before you could view them, so on and so forth. This would obviously be a bigger problem for a Free For All (FFA) dogfight where each person likely would be wanting to take off from a different airfield, and possibly different sector.

In short he is looking for maps that amount to being one sector in size so there is no loading/unloading of sectors from ram.

Edit: or at least this is how I understood it. If someone has a better/more accurate explanation please correct me.

Isle of White is a great idea,plenty of action here in the BoB!

Pardon the frank speech but what is the point of creating a flight sim that strives for accuracy and detail and then curtail it with a bunch of ahistorical postage stamp maps? Ilya - are you really thinking all of us here are attention-challenged gangbangers who have no idea about historical details and tactics? :roll:

From what I've seen now we have one large Channel Map and a bunch of fantasy somethings ... and for my interests only the large Channel Map is useful. IMO we do have enough fantasy postage stamps - if you are going to create smaller maps then do them 1:1 scale, with all airfields, ports and whatever else was there and give the players with an acute interest in history something to play with. Take Franky's suggestions (although these are already a bit too small for me). My 0,02 € ...

Any chance of a desert map? Major towns could be included but not necessarily super detailed...Tobruk, El Alamein...etc. You could have convoys for the British and the Axis forces that need to be bombed. Since the Italian Air Force is already included we would have all the planes we need.

The large full sized map is there. Luthier saw that people didn't particularly like the small maps for a variety of reasons and was asking for some that would be more appropriate for FFA or quick missions. You can still use the large map for your historically accurate MP play, and if you want to only utilize a smaller section of it you only allow the airfields you intend to use to be selectable by players.

Again the Full 1:1 map is there, and you can use any part of it you want. Here he is specifically addressing the small quick mission maps that many people didn't like, and he is asking for suggestions.

He also has stated if you can come up with some small historical maps that would be appropriate for the current set of aircraft they would be willing to create those maps, but they wouldn't be super detailed as that takes a great deal of time. I'm not a "gangbanger" that doesn't care about history, but sometimes I want to just be online and play for an hour or less, and the full map just is not conducive to that. The small maps are for people with limited time, attention, endurance, or beginners.

Personally I am glad to see the team wanting to create a variety of small maps that take that into consideration while at the same time having the full map available for when I have the time and patience to fly for several hours and can do a long haul campaign. Both sides can coexist and both sides can have maps that suit their needs, tastes, or circumstances.

And I questioned the thinking behind the fantasy somethings. If performance limitations demand to use smaller maps for the time being then why has 1C not created maps depicting certain areas (Pas de Calais, Cotentin Peninsula - Portsmouth etc) to begin with? That's what I don't get ...

I vote for:

- a mini channel map (1/2 or 1/4 scale)

- a Dunkirk map

- a completely fictionnal map with a moutain, canyons and other rough terrain for races, barnstorming and stunt flying (but only if the current maps don't cover that, and I would consider this as the lowest priority). After all there such maps on IL2 and they were good fun to test pilot skills others than combat ones.

Thanks for asking us Luthier :)

Have you read the posts on this page, or any of the 5 total pages? I've linked several times to Luthier's explanation of this, and I tried to simplify what I understood him to mean at the top of this page. I am thinking you are simply knee-jerk reacting to the OP and not reading anything else.

These both get my vote.

Good morning Ilya and rest of fellows!
I didn't have the time to read all posts as I'm at work right now (:-P), but let me give my contribution.

Having developed and thinking the online wars' needs what I think is really necessary is to have smaller maps of these fronts:
1) Coast of England and France for the initial fight of two sides - I think you already covered this.
2) Map of England area only, so we can run the fictitious scenario that Germany made the invasion to England.
3) Map of France area only, so we can run the scenarion that Germany failed to invade and English are on the attack side now.

This way, in three smaller, but fit for online game with many planes, maps, you can run a good online war.

No other need exists as far as online wars are concerned at this point.

Thank you,

Hi Luthier,

From a historical perspective we will be running the large map. My only suggestion to put a little twist on it would be to add some other sort of weathering to the ground. Perhaps you could have several varients of just the large map. Say one has some of the english country side in ruins, burning cities/part of the cities in ruins, scattered bomb craters, trees burning, different seasons/time of year (for immersion), stuff like that.

I think it would be pretty cool to enter the war zone, , and actually think the war has been on-going with areas of grass barren, fires running rampant, parts of airfields devastated. I'm quite happy to have a real 1:1 historical map, but I think it would be great to have 4 or 5 versions of that map based on the time frame.

Just a little shout to you guys as well: From some of the video's I've watched, this new sim looks exactly like what I've been waiting for. Thanks for all your teams efforts. This sim looks bloody fantastic :D

http://www.dbag.nl/england.jpg
whats wrong with those maps.

The truth is out.
And as always Oleg is right on the money.
Of course he had exclusive use of secret Russian satellite images.
The British have, to confuse the Germans, and in the hope to get the Germans to bomb only open water, published incorrect maps of great Britain.
That it worked mostly is proven by this resent space image where damage sustained in WW2 is stil visible on the eastern coastline of Great Britain.
Niels

cheesehawk - That is my personal opinion and has zero to do with TD. Put away the sniper rifle, will you. ;)

I'm 100% with Frankyboy.

i hope i am not worng with the position of Dunkirk :)

here a more shore based map for Dunkirk and Battle Of France (sure in later stages) operations.
http://www.franky.fliegerhospital.de/DunkirkMAP.jpg

the amount of airfields, espacially around Pas de Calais, would have to be reduced :)
and about small, compare this 240kmx130km map to some of the IL2 maps :D

+1

Maps other than small ones for dogfighting are needed as well. The big one is probably good and big enough (initially) but a France/England/generic West Europe map wouldnt hurt. :)

Personally, I like the idea of a smaller scale channel map for quick DF's as well as a Battle of France map. I think I'm right in saying that Canon's BoB map is reduced scale and that still 'feels' about right for online DF's.

For those that are talking about valleys etc. how about a north east cost of England and Scandinavia map? Again as Luthier has advised, it might not be historically accurate but maybe a smaller scale map with hills on the British side and Fjords on the Scandinavian side is possible?

pip pip,

Fitz

good idea !!
a fictional NorthSea map with Scotland and southern Norway.
http://www.franky.fliegerhospital.de/NorthSeaMAP.jpg
playground for the RAF Bomber- and Costalcommand.

because of the distance (over 400km) i would suggest a 1/4 scale :)

[QUOTE=speculum jockey;243255]You've given us a Su-26. . . why don't you give us a Red Bull style air racing track. Maybe a section of the Thames with a lot fewer buildings and some pylons. Something to get us into the mood for air racing. I'd also love to see who'd win between a Su-26 and the best the RAF/Luft has to offer.

+1 to that spec jockey! Would only need one new 3D model (those inflatable cones - maybe in a few different colours) and maybe a static stadium with simulated camera flashes...a small map that's quick and easy to play, with low demand on the PC. Preferably a mock up of the London Red Bull air race, but anywhere would do.

Regarding new maps, there was one from '46 that I used all the time, think it was called Summer Islands 3 (or something) and was based on an estuary with airfields on either side. Was fairly small and had different airfield types with plenty of room for naval units as well. Had the right number of hills and made things feel more realistic than the other flat style maps.

New maps:
- Coastal - 50% land (rolling hills and more 'interesting' landscape) and 50% sea/water, literally land on one side, and water on the other. Each side starts on the coastline at each end of the map (2 airfields at each end).
- Islands - classic style 2 large islands with about 30km between. Each island has 2-4 airfields, and large hills protecting the airfields. I know there's one similar one now (with roundels and axis symbols) and although I'm sure it's quick and fun it doesn't promote the games realism when viewed on YouTube.

+1 on the redbull airrace map. It must be somewhat simple to make cones.

I also like the north-east england and scandinavia map with fjords. That would be awesome.

http://eagleturk.com/stats/image/map/awt_.jpg

http://eagleturk.com/stats/image/map/small.jpg

http://eagleturk.com/stats/image/map/medium.jpg

http://eagleturk.com/stats/image/map/big.jpg

http://eagleturk.com/zeybek/warbirds/map1.jpg

http://eagleturk.com/zeybek/warbirds/map.jpg

http://eagleturk.com/zeybek/warbirds/afterjabosmall.jpg

http://eagleturk.com/zeybek/warbirds/medium.jpg

http://eagleturk.com/zeybek/warbirds/big.jpg

Perhaps just make maps which are connected to the current channel map, like parts from holland, luxemburg... later on (year(s) later) add them to the channel map for 1 huge map covering england, france, belgium, holland and a part from germany.. (if that would be possible..)

I know I'm not asking much ;)

[IMG]http://www.plaatjesupload.nl/bekijk/...376994-030.jpg[/IMG]

Kwiatek - I agree with what you wrote. 100x100 km is a very small place ... forget the historical missions with bombers, radar etc ... :(.

Yes. Take smaller "clicks" of the "channel" map and make a few over Belgium and France, and some over England. Some of the coastal line of Dover to Tangmere and so on. WOuld be suitable. If something else would be made at a later time, then yes, some of northern areas, as Scotland to Norway, Herdla and such would be nice. But as an easy quick fix, split the channel map into bits :)

+1 Or Reno airrace map, with ammo!

A commonwealth air-training plan map (training pilots for England in Rural Canada) - just set it in the prairies and use a lot of grass (and some coulées)...

+1000

I was just about to suggest this, the area between Banff and Peterhead on the Scottish coast. Omitting Norway would allow there to be more map area as land...make it an air-start for German bombers, no doubt you could start them off-map since no doubt the map engine generates endless sea off the edge of the map. This gives them some flying time to the target and allows the fighters time to climb to make high-altitude interceptions.

What about a "What if" map. South England, October, Germans have already landed and hold a few of the southern airfields and are conducting free roam flights over sothern England to Mop up the last of the remaining RAF Fighters.

A Dunkirk centred map would make a good team map too.

EDIT : Thought of one more What if map - Last stand in Brittany

The Breton Redoubt. The French plan that was never carried out to fall back to the Brittany peninsular and fight a last stand.
The French armies in Brittany and the Vosges would have a chance to regroup while the Germans were thinking twice about entering the gap between them. The fight would go on..
This would be a role reversal with the RAF having to fly over the Channel to give air cover and bomb German Army positions.

A map where I am in a fight in 2 minutes max

As long as you're willing to work on new maps, then please consider an addition of France map going southern (to Paris), which can work in an online war in connection to the North France map that I already told you before.

And by similar thinking, what about an English map northern of what you have now, so we can work a fictional scenario of "Germans invaded - took London - but English keep on fighting from Manchester/Newcastle/etc".

At last, just to add my 2 cents, I don't think that we need any unrealistic map. Just cut what you have now and if possible make a few additions.

I'd like a French/Belgium map, near the Belgian and French Ardennes, lots of fighting. Bridges were targeted by allied blenheims/fairey battles/Blochs, defended by German airforce to push on the advance with loads of vehicles, tanks and men. In the area around Limburg ( Dutch province ) there was also heavy fighting on the ground and air.

quick grasp from wiki:

None taken. ;)

Smaller parts of the big BoB map would be great. Not so far north, not so far south, not so far east and not so far west. :grin:

fantasy maps are not so cool imho.

IMHO considering all the maps close to the sea, I'd like something with contrast: Mountains and valleys. Something like a remake of Online4Summer.

For old times sake, why not just import the Kuban map from IL2?

Still one of the best maps in the sim, it has stood the test of time well, and offers a wide variety of scenario building options.

Some pretty good ideas all around.

My votes so far:

• Frankyboy's ideas. Generally, smaller portions of the existing map

• Dunkirk

• NE England/Scotland - Norway. Fun for slow flying in heavies/twins, hunting U-boats as a coastal command pilot (i keep dreaming of a flyable catalina in a future add-on) and ship-hunting in Ju88s

• Various fictional maps that others proposed. The rugged terrain one and the air race ideas are nice

If the main 1:1 map works in a reasonable way with good performance after a couple of patches, i really have no reason to fly in smaller maps. However, just because i'm prepared to fly 20 minutes across the Channel in a 109 only to have to turn back because some lucky flak burst damaged my fuel lines doesn't mean that i will always have the free time to do so, or that others will share my gameplay preferences. Options are good for everyone ;)


Finally,

thanks for the news, the team's efforts and being able to maintain your sense of humor. :grin:

How do you even expect to get any altitude with that little flight time. I would like to fly the 1:1 scale map online as I really enjoy historical accuracy.

I like that idea too. Sometimes you just want a quick dogfight (a relief from a hard day work or wife). Just like in ROF, spawning in the air with the battlefield in front of you.

+1 to that too!

On my earlier post I meant Online3Summer also...that and Kuban were pretty much the only ones i always relied on in FMB :grin:

Well I have to agree with CS_Thor and Frankyboy, if so much effort was put into accurate aircraft and buildings, to go then for arcade maps, just degrades the game.
I like Frankyboys suggestion very much, otherwise I would be very much for the Channel Islands Guernsey, Jersey and Sark which are rather close together, but these then at 1:1
By the way Guernsey airport was the only British airport to be occupied by German troops.
This would be in step with historical accuracy and short distances for the impatient types, so that pretty well all sides should be happy?
http://wiki-images.enotes.com/thumb/...p_guernsey.png

tell me about it, the JG53 flew from there before it was sent to Pas de Calais ...

100 X 100km map size? Really?

Assuming the front is in the middle of the map and the airfield is right on the edge of the map (which I doubt it would be) a plane going 400kph would transit 50km in 7 minutes and 30 seconds.

I would think 150km or 200km minimum would be a better size. It would allow use by the closer action DF servers if that is all they want to use but be flexible enough for larger sorties with bombers.

I would only go with 1:1 scale, but that's just me. The more detail you have the time and resources to put in the better.

Since any portion of the historical map can be used I would vote for France/Belgium 1940 or Malta maybe?

Good luck,

StkNRdr

Cutting the original map into smaller pieces sounds like a good idea.
Some parts with France and England (like the maps Franky showed us) and maybe a "only England" and "only France" map for fictional invasions with land battles.

I'd just like to point out that the calculations at 400kph don't seem to be talking into account actually taking off and climbing, which will add a couple minutes. Again, the big map is already there, this one's supposed to be a semi-realistic, get to the dogfight somewhat quickly type of map.

To give any meaningful suggestions we would need to know what planes are in the pipeline to be released as updates in the near future.

1. There is no point to have a map covering Belgium and France without any French planes.
2. A Denmark/Norway map without a flyable Beaufighter, Swordfish, Fulmar, Skua or Fw200 is also pointless.

from Wissant to Folkestone its 40km .... short enough i guess , so its 20km for each side to meet over the straight of dover :D

if you want even more , absurd short distances , every missiondesinger can choose the airbases at pas de calias from witch you can spit to each other standing on the runway...

Well it is a bit hard for me to comment/recommend new maps because those of us in the states will not see this sim for another few weeks.

But from what we have learned on Warbirds of Prey (Spits vs 109s) that some of the larger maps are not very playable online. Maps do not need to have tons of detail, just enough to keep them visual interesting. More important is to have bases (Or the ability to add bases) on a map such as the flight times to the front lines are about 5-8 minutes. Missions built which have total flight times (takeoff to landing) for bombers of over 20 to 30 minutes are not that popular.

100km x 100km Maps might be a bit small, maybe 150km x 150km.

To start some basic English/French mainland maps, Coastal English/French Maps, and a scaled down channel map for anti-shipping missions.

Again until we (Warbirds of Prey mission builders/admins) can actually get ahold of the game and see what there is to work with it is hard to comment.

RAF238thWildWillie
Warbirds Of Prey Servers

Rugged terrain or air race.

Well if people hate flying so much, why not a map with two airbases side by side? You don´t even need to take off just turn your plane towards the enemy and let it rip!.................:roll:

+1 on that Wutz. :)

Personally flying long distances is no problem for me, so smaller maps don't mean much.

I saw somewhere that flight times are no longer a problem for anyone, especially now there is a feature to take over an AI controlled aircraft. You will be able to set a flight of AI and then 'jump' into the action.

Surely the gangbangers don't want to waste time with take offs and landings anyway since it's not realism they are really after. 5-8 min flights are a thing of the past, just jump on in buddy!

If I had to vote for a smaller map, I would definitely go with the Pas de Calais > Dover map on a 1:1 scale, preferably 200 x 200 so there is time to grab some altitude.

:)

Like many others I would love to see Malta as well, not a very large map even 1:1 (50x50km probably), air starts for the attackers for quick action. Also a perfect start on a larger 300x300km Sicily & Malta map for later on, pretty please. ;)

Serbia.

Specifically, this part of Serbia:

+1

Please guys read Luthier posts, for those of us that want realism for our coops or online wars there is the main map, so you have what you want, but just because you dont like fast dogfight action small maps it doesnt mean they shouldnt be there, cause some people like that and dont want to fly 15 min to target or more, the sim is not only made for you, it is made for everybody trying to reach a large audience. Luthier asked for some ideas to make some more small maps that will apeal for ppl that wants fast action with some realism.

He also said that no new textures should be needed, so no desert and no snow.

I fly often in spit vs 109 and big maps tend to get boring with less than 35 players as wildwillie said.

I like the Dunkerque area idea.

And +100 to the guy who said Online4Summer y love that little map.

I personally like full real online wars but also fast dogfiht servers (without externals better) so i will enjoy all maps

Not much to add, I'd just like to reinforce some of the wiser answers:
Something representing Dunkerque would be nice.
Battle of France, with plenty of room for lots of ground targets.
I like the Malta idea also (but I realize this would be tough without adding objects).
Anti shipping conducive map (even a couple of islands with harbors).

Exactly. The full sized map is already there, if you really want to play multi-player on something that large then nothing is stopping you. He is just asking for options to expand the types of maps available so that everyone can play however they want!

Thanks to the devs for being so involved so quickly, btw.

Luthier,

We need a two simple maps ASAP, please:
- a simple map water only (as biggest as possible)
- a simple map water only with 4 small islands groups (each islands groups consisting of two islands, a small one with a fighter small airfield and a bigger one with a bomber airfield) on each corner, with NO towns at all on it

Those would be best for simple testing/online playing, until optimization are in the game or newer hardware is on the market.

Thank you!

Hardly surprising considering the MP maps.. they are a complete joke. Just open sea would have been 10000% better.

Why not just take sections of the main map and use that? Would seem to make sense with little work.

The idea of flying a historically accurate sim over square islands or volcanoes is ridiculous, it is just bizarre.

As a Warbirds of Prey mission builder for many years I concur with what Willie has said, and will add that maps that aren't historical or are too small (100 x 100 is too small) aren't going to be much use to the full-real online community. Cut down versions of the main map will be far more useful.

From the OP I understand and accept that other priorities will prevent development of new map textures for some time, but in order to sustain interest in an early war planeset we will definitely need a desert map (Eygpt/Libyan border) when the developers have time to build sand textures.

First of all, I'm echoing the idea of a Dunkirk map, and I have two idea's of my own if I may be so kind;

1) A England - North Sea - Netherlands map (roughly the area north of the current game map). This area saw extensive action from 1939 to 1945, so it could prove a worthwile project to invest your time in. For online purposes it would be great to scale this area down, by slimming down the sea between the land masses, much like IL2's Norway map.

The Air War over Holland has been researched very thorougly throughout the years and a lot of research material is easily obtained, which would certainly speed up the process. Building wise, by mixing the English, French and German building sets could provide very satisfying results.

2) An early MTO map

A map of Greece or Malta or such will be of great value breaking up the monotony of flying over the Channel ;)

Thanks.

agreed on the water only map for testing, plus a mosty water with 4 very small bases( no trees and no buildings at all).