PILOTS: LETS HEAR Ur STORIES AND THOUGHTS
 

What Do You Think About World War II, What do u like about it, what do u hate about it and how this ties with IL 2 sturmovik birds of prey

Enjoy!

MG 42 Prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Reload Prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrr Out of ammo

1.. Ask your Navy. :P
2.. Ask your Navy. :)
3.. Some did some didn't, just like the Allies
4.. I dunno
5.. Lancasters would be a great addition, for shooting at 109's with
6.. There will be a sequal.. No idea which theatre tho. If I need a fix of the Pacific I have to boot up Combat flight sim 2.
7.. That's not a question. :)

1 i know little about subs

2 breaking the cipher was the point of stealing the machine

3 Honor is a relative concept... I'm sure the french ace who made his name shooting germans who had already bailed out thought he was honorable

4 They were all shot down in campaign

5 Lancasters would be a welcome addition the B17 was not the only bomber destroying infrastructure during the war

6 not intrested in pacific theatre

7 Using rockets is just..... unless used on certain people then it's not worth the later agony

I thought that was the US Navy that took the Enigma, Rear Admiral Matthew McCouagnahy I think.

Damn, i forgot hollywood decided britian didn't take part in the war lol!

Hollywood . lol
First was captured by RN HMS Aubretia boarding party frm U110 Second was HMS Petard -U559
Was a boarding party from USS Pillsbury ( Never trust the doughboy with his eveil laugh) frm U505.

Subs and U-boats
 

This was not the original message:
I have edited my message because I thing people got the wrong idea about this one. It back fire a little. So let me explain.

Rommel was a good General, I will not back on that, just as were other allied generals and figures like Doolittle, Eisenhowar, RAF Pilot [The most brave pilots during WWII], and The men from the 332nd Fighter Group.

Rommel, Eisenhowar, RAF Pilots, Doolittle, The men from the 332nd Fighter group are my war heroes.

Second point to clarify my friends. I'm not pro German, British, or American. I just like a little of some

Third: I hate war but do love the events that happen during one: War brings dead and sadness. But it also triggers in men wonderful feelings; brotherhood, honor, duty, respect, bravery, and union [allies, and axis; to one another the opposite is ur enemy]

Four point: I forgot to underline this sentence on my las entri, i guess it would have made thing a little clear. "Its a good thing Rommel die for his family and not got involve in the Holocaust". In addition I would like to say that in any side of the battle field there are Nazis wheter allies or axis powers.

Having said that I apologize for any inconvenience and miss understanding.
http://www.hotelsofgreece.com/athens...gne/rommel.JPG

Who ever was in charge Hitler would have messed it up for them. The guy was (at the risk of stating the obvious) an idiot.

The german armies/airforce were let down badly by thier high command.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If only is sadly used a little too much. If only we hadn't kicked your asses back to France when you tried to invade us....If only Germany hadn't invaded Poland in the first place.....!!!!
And anyway it wasn't the subs that beat Rommel it was Grandad Gilly and his mates!!!!

This is starting to sound dangerously like you wished Nazi Germany had won the war.

Lets not bet around the bush here, Rommel was fighting for Hitler, and Hitler was the single most evil dictator in history. He was rightly beaten by the Allies and so was the rest of the German army. Blaming the subs in the Med is like us saying Britain would have invaded France in 1941 if it wasn't for the U Boats in the Atlantic strangling supply lines.
Out of all the German generals I would say Rommel was the best, but he was still serving Hitlers aggressive expansion in North Africa, not protecting his homeland

devils advocate
 

As a student of history it is almost impossible to know what would have happened had hitlers generals (including Rommel) succeded in assasinating Hitler; would they have sued for peace or conttinued the war ? the debate potential is great.
I do find myself disagreeing with wookie on one point though....
Hitler was evil this cannot be doubted, most evil this i am not so sure of he has two contemporaries that give him a good run for his money and in terms of innocents murdered he comes third to both Mao Se Tung (most likley spelt incorrectly) the vaulted hero of the peoples republic of china and Iron Joe Stalin.

1) We'll never know, but if you had subs... then it would be obvious to use them

2) Our own decoding wouldnt work decoding your enigma unless we had it. Hence the reason we "borrowed" one from your lovely Uboats :D

3) This could get me flamed but i'll say it anyway.. The Lufwaffe bombed us first, look at coventry. We (Bomber Command) just had bigger planes and did a better job of it! Like it or lump it, its the truth. Though remember, the crews didnt want to do this, it was orders from the top.

4) No idea what happened to it. Alot of things are missing.

5) Playing online in daytime settings the lanc would be to easy to shoot down. It was a night time bomber, much harder to destroy then ;)

6) No idea. Time will tell.

7) Eh?

Ahhh revisionist historical debates I love em :D

1. Even that point is debatable. Even without the subs I don't think the Germans could have held them off indefinately, drag the conflict out at a much higher cost definately. The rest of the worlds resources were just too great, the end result was inevitable.

2. All is fair in love and war. Too bad the Axis couldn't steal a Navajo ;)

3. The allies hands were just as dirty if not dirtier in being responsible for countless civilian deaths as a result of indiscriminate bombing.

4. and 5. Can't put everything in a game/simulation that would be..........real life ??

6. I sure hope that comes out soon for consoles!! Too fun, can't imagine it is anytime in the near future though. Would mean I wasn't the Greenest pilot in the skies!!

7. Ok

1. it wasnt just the allied subs..."The British bombers, torpedo bombers and submarines based on the island were exacting a merciless toll on the Italian merchant tonnage in the central Mediterranean, which inevitably led to a very real weakness in Rommels Afrika Korps..." long supply lines are lethal...look at the war with Russia as well.

2. code breaking with out computers is a LONG and arduous task. compound that with the fact the enigma machine changes the algorithm constantly...basically without capturing a coding machine you were SOL...

3. war is hell. there is no such thing as a civilized war. innocent people will be killed either accidently or on purpose...it is the nature of the beast.

4. no clue...

5. add every aircraft!!! the more models the better.

6. hope that some sequeal comes out but fear it will be PC only. IL2 has ruined me...other games dont do anything for me like this one does.

7. Ditto

8. MG42 is an awesome piece of machinery...2 rates if fire...i should have gotten one when i had the chance.

9. Rommel ate a bullet not because of North Africa...but because he was implicated in an assination plot against Hilter.

miss communication
 

my friend, I didn't say what the "whole Germans did was ok", all I said was Rommel is a good General.

Take a look at him with a military perspective: He had good tactics that even earn him the respect of allied generals Patton and Monty.

Also I did not mention France or the panzers there. So to clarify I choose Rommel just as anyone would have choos an axis General, and I do believe there a many good one in the allied side. But can we not afford to give rommel some credit, I mean his mistake was being involve in the wrong side of the battlefield.

To clarify
 

I partially agree with u my friend. Rommel was a good General but he was just working for the wrong side. I'm sorry i didn't made that point a little more clear on my last post. Besides I like the guy because of his tactics not for how he use to apply them

This was more like what I expected to hear, from the discussion. Thank you my friend

Fair comment and I admire him as a leader of his men in the battlefield and as you say his tactics. I was being as tongue in cheek as you were!! I don't think your original post necessarily got what you've said above across. Unfortunately you choose to use the 'us and them' in conveying your post as so as expected you've inadvertently created a situation as such. If you'd have taken a more neutral stance you wouldn't have recieved such as response. Perhaps it's a language thing. Perhaps the same is true of your 'Eagle Day' post as sadly the very best Spit pilots lining up to join from the way it's conveyed!! I'll defend my nation when it's threatened in any way. We may not be much of a nation nowadays but rest assured our pride still runs deep. As someone who's family fought in both world wars last century I have as much right as the next man to display that. That all said it's a game at the end if the day and I see it as such but be very careful as you may make more enemies than friends!!!

WW II I like
 

In life there are many dilemas and it all depend on how u see them and on which side u are on.

For instance WW II what I like about it, what I have about it.

LIKE:
I like how people fought together for a noble cause, I thing WWII was the only justified war [that I know so far] in history. The reason I thing this is because in was just simply a battle between good and evil, Freedom and opression. The Nazis and Allies [But not all germans were Nazis, some just follow orders]. all the other wars have been caused for the wrong reasons, at least thats how i see them: WW I [a murder], Crusades [religion; who knows which is the right one], Cold War [a race between super powers].

I also like how much mankind came up with such technological acheivements
The aircraft: magnificent machines [look at them fly, but do not thing about the human loses, just look at them flying in the sky], the rocket [great power, will later be used for something good rather than warfare; the space rocket, the moon landing], the Me262 [ the first jet what will later be studied to provide a new transportation vehicle].

Dramatic scenes: A brotherhood that bond people together no matter if they were from different countries; the allies French, British, and Americans working together.
WHAT I HATE:
The holocaust, people dying, the atom bomb, the bombing of london [unjustified civilian districts], the bombing of Dresden [unjustified civilian bombing in Germany], Japanese actions at nanking. esentially every side of WWII had its obscure moment, though one side more than the other but still both.
Why I like IL2 sturmovik Birds of prey: Well I only get to experience the parts a like about World War II and the ones I don't like I save to myself.

U may agree on some of what I had said, you most likely will not, which is good. In human nature, we have to always find two sides to the coin, a good one and a bad one. But at the end I think is not evil or good, Its what you like the most. An example

IN an american history class George the III was a tyran who ruled the american colonies harshly. In another History class from different perpective, King George was a good king to England, he even work along his people [a thing a king was just not able to do]. What I'm trying to proof I guess is that The two side can be both right and wrong, but at the end its just what u like best.

so you think the invasion of poland was justified.

Not justified
 

The invasion of Poland was not justified, an invasion is never justied, A defense is. In this battle I throw my support to the Polish army ridding in horses "what a brave group of people" to face heavely armored Panzers.

I dunno, some invasions are justified. Like the invasion of France by the Allies in '44, and the Invasion of Italy in '43 and finally the Invasion of Germany in '44-'45 by the Soviet Union. Sure, they could have just kicked Germany off their land, but whatever.

German Bias
 

I do not justified any german attacks, I only like the planes, thanks, battleships [Geramans always make good stuff; take a look at their cars]

The only thing I blame on the allies is the bombing of Dresden. Dresden was more like an eye for an eye campaing on the Germans. Which bring me to my next point. I do not justified the bombing of london either. This is just a guy who likes to watch big explosions and that's all. Who doesn't find fireworks interesting and enjoyable. Going back to bombing, I only justified it in the game.

I think the Italian Campaigns in Africa were/are pretty interesting (What's cooler than MC.200, Fiat G.50s, and other early Italian fighters going up against Gladiators and Hurricanes?) Not much is known about them, and the whole Italian fight, but it's pretty interesting none the less. I'm sure people have heard of the Battle of Taranto where British Swordfish destroyed a good portion of the Italian Navy in the harbor, but hardly anyone I'm sure in the Western World (Britain, US, Germany, and France excluding Italy of course,) have heard of the other minor victory at Cape Matapan.

And I'm sure that hardly anyone knew that during the Battle of Britain, that there were actually Italian Fiat CR.42 Biplanes fighting over the channel (not many, but there was. And flown by Italians, not Germans.) Same goes for the Eastern Front. There were Italian units stationed on the Eastern Front fighting against the Soviet Union. (Ground troops, I'm not sure of Air units.) Plus, there were Italian units (ground/air) fighting in the Balkan States too.

On the subject of Rommel, I definitely admire him for his talents and abilities as a commander. He was arguably the best ground commander in WWII. What he lacked on most occasions where he was dealt defeat was sufficient support to press home the attack. If he had the same resources as Monty, I think he'd have kicked Monty's ass up and down the desert. Look at how much damage he did, how far back he pushed the British armies with the limited resources he had. Then, even after there was no hope of attacking any further and the initiative was totally with the British (through air superiority over the desert, and dominance over, on and under the Mediterranean) he still bloodied the Allies' noses in his fighting withdrawal.

What I can't admire him for is his politics. He was a Nazi. Maybe in the end he did finally see clearly who and what he had decided to support, but by then he had thrown his hat in with people who were responsible for terrible things. It's difficult to condemn him completely, but he can't just be forgiven either. A man that intelligent and close to the seat of power as he was, couldn't have honestly 'missed' the evil going on around him. And I do agree with LR's sentiment that WWII was the closest you could get to saying a war was fought between good and evil.

As for the bombing of cities and civilians (London, Dresden, Tokyo, etc.), I don't think you can justify it. But, you have to consider it in the context of the times. Aside from perhaps the initial raids on London and the reciprocation against Berlin, the bombing of cities was based on the idea that you could break the morale of the civil populations and have the enemy sue for peace through the use of bombing. The strategy was flawed. In every case, except perhaps Nagasaki and Hiroshima, bombing civilians may have caused much death and destruction, but it only served to increase the resolve of the bombed people to resist the enemy. It's possible to say, "Well, the Germans did it first," or whatever your argument may be, but both sides did it and their hands are just as bloody.

Well said GBTSTR.

"Good people never fought harder for a worse cause" is a quote that pretty well sums up most Germans of the time, wish I could remember who said it. One important reason to study history is to try and understand how such a civilized and cultured society could be capable of such evil, yet the Germans had no monopoly on it and it is an evil almost any one of us is capable of. Anyone who honestly thinks that "it could never happen again" has a lot to learn about human nature. Kind of frightening when you think about it. A bit of loyalty and national pride can be a great thing, but too much of anything leads to disaster.

Anyhoo, I know that BoP is just a game and I do enjoy flying the Axis aircraft, I just have a hard time shooting at Hurricanes and Spitfires LoL