IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds Of Prey Patch for PlayStation 3
 

Following considerable player demand, 1C Company and 505 Games announce an upcoming patch for the PS3 version of WW2 flight shooter IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds Of Prey that will issue a number of fixes to problems reported Sony console owners. The patch is currently in QA and will be released as soon as possible. Watch out for confirmation of its release date.

The most notable fixes will relate to:
- Multiplayer disconnections and performance drops fixed
- Voice chat issues relating to more than 12 players with headsets at any one time
- Keyboard support and full mapping for all buttons
- Performance boosts for the Berlin missions
- Fixed occasional freezes in single player campaign
- Improved handling for the Mustang P-51
- Improved enemy AI
- Extended support for PC flight sticks
- New separate controls for guns and machine guns

Awesome! Looking forward to trying out the keyboard mapping, and the improved MP. And the independant cannon/MG control will be very handy :grin: Thanks very much Anton and co!

Just one question: you say "the most notable fixes".... does that mean there are more? Any chance you could fill us in?

Full list of updates will appear closer to the release of the patch.

Thats fair enough..... but, just to pre-empt everyone elses question when they see the thread, I noticed that the fixes for MP scoring isn't listed.... I'm guessing its just an error, but could we just confirm that MP scoring will be fixed, before the trolls turn up and turn this thread into a giant whinge-fest.

MP scoring is fixed.;)

Cool!

Looking forward to see the rest of the list.

Great... now I'm assuming this same thing is coming to 360 at around the same time right? (obviously with exception of things that only the ps3 supports)

Nope, the 360 patch will be after the PS3 one as far as we have been told.

pardon me for asking , but what is the point of adding keyboard controls for a game that is mapped just fine to a controller?

why didnt they just give us a hotfix for the crash bug RIGHT AWAY when the game was still being played online instead of willy nilly with this playstation shit that wont improve the experiance?

The game IS still being played online. There's a massive tournament going on with the PS3 community at the moment. Can't speak for the Xbox, but there are plenty of people playing on the PS3.
As for the keyboard options... why not? Some of us will find it quite useful, especially the guys with flight sticks, as it will make it a lot more like a PC flight sim.

Huh? The current controller mapping, particularly in Sim mode is currently far from perfect. Having to depress the thumbstick to try & view around your cockpit (& if the aviator controller setting is selected, player loses the zoom function).

Particularly worried with the now lack of mention to earlier promises of the horrendous screen tearing that plagues alot of PS3 players, having been addressed. For me, personally; the tearing & the customisable mapping are the primary concerns.

Haha, maybe you can map one half of the keyboard to left rudder, and the other half to right rudder, then use the keyboard as rudder pedals. That's the only way I can see a keyboard being used in conjunction with a controller :)


EDIT: the tearing is listed as one of the fixes. The list posted on this forum is not the full list, as stated.

Thats a bloody genius idea! But I was thinking more along the lines of being able to assign things like landing gear, flaps, and trim to the keyboard. I've just started using the Aviator wireless controller setup, and I'm really missing the zoom.... if the customisable controls allow us to assign anything to keys, then it will at least give us some options. The more choice, the better

but.... its not a pc flight sim.....

adding keyboard support to a game that has less then a quarter of the commands the pc version has is pretty useless.

what would you need like 3 keys?

Maybe they will add additional commands to keyboard so all you have to do with the stick is turn and shoot, and everything else will be on the keyboard.

why would you want that?

i could not think of a more uncomfortable way of playing a game

Fair point, but its good to have the option, especially for the people using flight sticks. Anyway, I seriously doubt that implementing this will have caused any major delay in making the patch, so its all good.

I never said "I want more commands"

What I said was Maybe they are doing that. We don't know.

Pc players have been doing it for years. They might not think it is uncomfortable.

So what? Just because you can't think of a use doesn't mean no-one will. Someone might be glad for 3 keys. Even if you just map undercarriage, or view select, to the space bar it could be useful...

I don't understand why you have such a bee in your bonnet about this feature. I hope you're not blaming it for the patch delay... lol

Mapped just fine to a controller? Are you talking about the gamepad (lowest for of gaming interface known to man) or the flightstick - which is not mapped properly?

PC flightstick support not an improvement? So sorry your microsoft dictated game experience won't allow this. You should sell that thing before it red-lights anyways.

1. Gamepad works fine , you are a nublet if you cant learn how to play any genre of game on a gamepad. I would dominate you in the ass with a gamepad in this game.

2. PC flight stick support is not needed for a game that is not as in depth as a real pc simulator . I say again , you dont need the extra support when all the commands can fit onto a gamepad without any issue.

3. I repaired my 360 myself and modified it to run cooler , it has been going for a good 2 years. and i see no reason for it to stop since the root engineering mistake of the box has been removed

That is true in general, but not in the case of BoP.

If this is going to turn out to be a console fanboy hate thread with people cussing back and forth (guilty spark)We all know you are upset that the patch is coming to the ps3 and not the Xbox. I have warned you 3 times once today now and banned you once, we don't need it on this forum.

Gaijin has decided to do some different stuff on the ps3 because the system is not hindered by a company that only wants you to use their dedicated and authorized equipment. We should applaud Gaijin for doing the things they are doing hoping that other developers follow suit and try to expand their thinking on the way they make games. Maybe they should have issued a "hot fix" like you said to help in the MP points system, but I seriously doubt that all the people that have left live have left because of that reason.

Maybe they are thinking of different things with the sequel we don't know. A keyboard would be useful if they added fly by cameras, tower cameras, and other things like the original had. A keyboard made the first game great.

If we can't keep the forum clean with the insults people are gone.

Try not to add fuel to the fire. Thanks

I know the PS3 update is coming first, but why is it that every time it is discussed by Devs or otherwise, there is basically no mention of the 360 update?

The only thing has been said is that it will come later. They are not giving a definitive answer.

um , you are going to need to stop being so jumpy with your new moderator title.

I read the forum rules and in no place did it state that you could be banned for "Obscene language"

and in most cases its not obscene in the slightest if you are above the age of 7. some of the earlier warnings you gave out were just , but the last one you gave to me is just grasping for straws.

If you continue to send me warnings everytime i speak my opinion on something you dont agree with i will contact an administrator about your modship.

Actually, I think you can be banned for whatever freaking reason an admin or owner of a forum wishes. I seriously don't think it is worth your trouble to contact an admin and complain about it.

And about the gamepad thing, I'm seriously curious how good a person can get on those things - I just can't see something with such a huge deadzone being a thing of precision.

If you like (I think microsoft makes a PC compatible gamepad), you should see how far it takes you online in 1946 against people using full flight sim rigs. I would honestly be shocked if you could manage a kill against a competent player.

I think the gamepad works on the PS3 and 360 ONLY because most other players are using them also AND the fact that the deadzone is fixed right now. A supported stick (thrustmaster T16000) with adjustable deadzone will mop up against gamepad players in realistic and sim mode. If the PS3 version allows this, expect to see gamepad users going down in flames at the hands of my T16000 (it mops up pretty well in 1946 already).

Until then, my BOP is collecting dust while I play 1946.

Totally off topic (as if it matters), do you play FPS on gamepad?

I just don't see the point in learning to play most games on a gamepad.

If you took a FPS designed to properly support gamepad and mouse, then took the worlds best players from the PC and the best on consoles (gamepad users) and set out to see which control interface was more accurate - you'd see a heavy advantage go to mouse users.

Proof of this is the development of Shadowrun which has crossplatform play. The developers actually added autoaim assist for the gamepads and added an expanding reticule for PC mouse users to even the playing field. So essentially they had to gimp the mouse and keyboard setup so console players wouldn't get torn a new one.

Microsoft and Sony both realize this, so it's no suprise that despite the usb capability on both systems - neither support use of a mouse (with exception of UT3 on PS3).

I don't think consoles can keep delivering a satisfying game experience heading into the future if all they ever offer gamers is gamepads for most games. They need to open it up and allow gamers to decide how to they wish to enjoy their games. Until then, I'll never drop 60 bucks on a FPS on a console.

Really, the only games (other than BOP) I've felt were worth risking 60 bucks on were GT5 prologue and SF IV - both of which (you guessed it) have excellent alternatives to the standard controllers. BOP is collecting dust because flight sticks don't work like they should and using a gamepad is like wiping my butt with one square of toilet paper - too sloppy.

Anyone know if this PS3 update fixes the screen tearing?

I have defended you in the past I used to like reading your posts when you were around a while ago but lately they have been on the negative side probably because of the patch. To tell you the truth I was being easy on you. I have every right to ban you. Send admin a note they will see the infractions I have given you and warnings.

Here are some lines from the forum rules.

You would see that the mouse users would aim faster and more accurately - but that's an advantage specifically to aiming on a 3d engine, and only if the engine is designed so that aiming is a particularly vital part of the game; for instance, in most shooters, hitting the enemy with one or two bullets won't kill them in reality, so aim matters with automatic weapons. If the engine were designed with realistic damage, a gamepad could dominate simply by picking an approximate direction and strafing, using the greater mobility of the thumbstick vs wasd.

But that's not how shooters are designed, since Quake. They're not realistic. Neither mice nor gamepads can approach the accuracy or speed of aiming in real life, but the games are designed so that mice can do it fastest.

Anyhow, shooter engines don't work like flight-sim engines. The object isn't to point in an exact direction or turn 180's in 200 milliseconds. If a mouse could fly a plane better than a joystick, they'd use mice in real planes. A gamepad is a ready-made throttle and stick. If they'd introduce control mapping then BOP could be made full-sim easily, using button combos. Such as, l1+x = fuel mix up, l1 + triangle = fuel mix down, l1 + square and l1 + circle = wheel brakes, r1 + x = tailwheel lock, etc. And allow no-WEP as an option so altitude won't be so trivialized.

Again, off topic, but Frag FX FTW! lol

I'm not saying any names but 4th place and 8th place on the BF2(Pc) leader board use a program called pinnicle profiler and a 360 controller , I was in a clan with them for about 2 years.
You would be surprised how many people play pc games like that. You have to spend hours tweaking things till you get it just right, but some of the best pc gamers out there use it and would never admit it, because they don't want others to know thats what they use. I personally still perfer a mouse, but when I Alpha tested Shadowrun in house for FASA Studios, we had 40 testers and the 360 controller gamers with no aim assist killed the mouse and keyboard guys.
It got so bad that the Dev team had to add some aim assist to the mouse so they could keep up.


I knew a lot of pc gamers that talked a lot of smack about a mouse and keyboard being better and when Shadowrun went live, they shut up real quick.

I personally think that it depends on which you use the most. It boils down to hours put into using that preference and for me Shadowrun proved that. I played it on pc and 360 and I was better with a Mouse and keyboard, yet there were players just as good with a controller.
DESODE

My neighbor played Counter Strike/Source 6+ years, and I would bet my butt that if I played it with a controller I could dominate him in a month. Just watch them play with a keyboard. Figners flying everywhere, pushing this and that. The only advantage with a mouse/board is aiming. Certinly not movemant.

It, to me, is quiet comical.

as in house QA
 

i find myself in argreement with desode. It depends on what your used to; at work we play UT in the lunchbreak the programmers use keyboard and mouse i use my ps3 pad (this is on a pc understand) and wins are split between us.
And i use the pad in BoP arcade without probelms just ask anyone who has played me.
PC gamers do get awfully defensive when challenged remember it's just a game!

Try that against me and I would blow you away in a heart beat. Plus CSS aint exactly stellar when it comes to gameplay. Also if anyone actually saw an e-sport tourney you would see that ALL the best players of shooter games on PC use a k/b mouse combo. If pad users were so good they would be up there and they aint.

I'm no expert on CSS, but I can tell by watching sombody play with a kb/m that if they had equal time with a pad they could be much better.

What about crouching? You must hold one key, while pushing others to move, all the time using the mouse to aim. Pretty hard to do well and precisely.

Edit: Sorry, but we may have a new topic here.

new thread needed
 

so far offtopic

Patch. PS3.

Now on topic.

Na thats what a multi-button mouse is for. 2 thumb buttons and your good to go. Infact, its damn easy to crouch & fire on the move with it set to a mouse side button. Much easier than a pad and having to click the stick in. Seriously though the people you watched must be totaly crap, because CSS is a piece of p*ss to play.

You should see the amount of chaos that BF2/2142 brings, in that game a pad user would be cut down in a heartbeat. Now those games seperates the men from the boys. Mind you though a pad is handy for flying in BF2/2142, though I'll take my flight stick over a pad anyday in that respect.

Nah The button layout isn't hard for a controller it is faster then a keyboard.
You can make whats called shift buttons. there are 16 buttons on a controller to start with make one or 2 of those a shift button and you double or triple the buttons. Thats why my 2 old bf2 clan guys used it. They could jump ,dive ,toss a frag all there frags and rip a clip and reload before they hit the ground in prone. In all honesty it left the keyboard in the dust. Plus that Pinnacle profiler software lets you program multiple button combinations on single button presses. Which grant it you can do that stuff with a keyboard too. Still with the controller you never have to take you eyes off the screen and it was amazing to see what these guy could do on Bf2 pc. They would just slaughter people.

Except with sniping. They couldn't hang with the M&K on that. We had guys in the clan that where just as good as them in aiming with the M&K but they couldn't do 44 button combinations as fast as those 2 guys could do on the 360 controller.
You would just have to see it to believe it. They were on equal footing with the run and gun aiming and way better using the shift system and having like 40 button commands on one 360 controller. The only think they couldn't do was snipe as well as a M&k guy.

Shadowrun is cheap, if any of you M&K guys think you have that much of a advantage, go buy it and take on some 360 players. You'll find out just like I did,, there are some kids with a 360 controller that will give you a run for your money any day.
Desode

Ive got shadowrun for PC. Ive not played it in a long time but it was bloody easy to be a "ninja" player with the k/b mouse. I could jump/'port sideways/glide/'port down/glide/'port forward (or any combination thereof) and then CHOP EM UP! with the samuria sword. It was hilarious to see people try and follow me, and I even had players scream "HAX!" at me when I did that kind of thing. Its the reason I stopped playing because it was just to damn easy to win.

Oh and those "shift buttons" you mention are Macros, and are actually banned under the games TOS. If you went on a well admin'ed server and started doing that stuff, you would be kicked out.

No its not, pinnicle profiler is endorsed by EA itself.
A shift button is different then a macro which is A BCGHJ timed under one button press. A admin may give you heck over that, but not a shift button.
You would need 3 hands to do what I have seen done with two hands on a controller. I swear Lexandro I was you and your opinion before I played with these two Bf2 Pc players. They were amazing with a controller and thats why they were 4th and 8th on the leaderboard. They used them in tourneys for MLG. They were just that good with a controller.


Its a shame FASA went under befroe they could support Shadowrun.
Desode

I stopped playing because (and this is going to sound terrible) I was just to awesome. Seriously, on one map I could port through walls up/down/left/right and glide and I was pretty much untouchable. The constant bitching by the kiddies in LIVE while I played put me off.

I did'nt say my neighbor was good. :grin: And screw you for being able to play BF2. :-P If I was'nt useing my income taxes to get a new vehicle I would get a PS3. Still too expensive for me. :evil:

Edit:By BF2, I assume you mean BF:BC2

Probably not with talk of leaderboards, forgive my ignorants. HA!

Riceball do what I did , save up a $100 over the course of a year, and then play the stock market. Thats how I got my hobbie toys . Do your research and don't get greedy , get in and out.

Plus there is a place called E-rewards.com You can do surveys for Gamestop/Eb games gift cards. I did that to get my ps3.
Desode

Nice. Did you mean $100 a month?

I may just pre-pay $50-$100 per month and get one that way. But the market has me intrigued, even in these times. Maybe I'll hit you up for some tips.

Done and done:)

When my X52 broke I used a 360 gamepad (with a keyboard for functions not essential for fighting) for a while in 1946, online and offline, and while I can't vouch for the competence of my opponents;) I did get a fair number of kills online and a nearly 2:1 Kill/Death ratio.

Off topic somewhat - I've tried that. Every one released to date has to emulate the gamepad with the mouse - so the end result is something hardly accurate at all compared to a mouse running on a PC.

Small movements are especially messed up - real hard to emulate small gamepad analogue movements on a mouse. So you get a bunch of jumping around the "center" of what you are trying to actually hit.

Which brings up another thing - I certainly hope mouse support (if added) in the ps3 BOP patch is not an emulation of a gamepad stick. Hopefully it is full mouse support.

I'm currently playing 1946 with a pad, and while it's almost certainly nothing like what I'll get out of it once I get a decent HOTAS setup it's certainly functional. Rudder on the triggers, left stick-click to centre view, right stick-click toggles gunsight view, throttles on the shoulder buttons as well as mousewheel so I can use right rudder on takeoff while increasing throttle, and armaments on the A/B/X/Y buttons suits me well.

I have no doubt gamepads work for flight games and FPS. As you point out, it's not the best tool for the job.

I could use a hammer to kill flies, but I'd rather use a fly swatter. It is just that much less frustrating to kill the fly with the proper tool. Plus the hammer leaves holes in the wall - much like a gamepad would if I ever tried to play FPS games with it.

Microsoft, Sony and game developers essentially force me to "kill flies with a hammer" by only giving me the option of using the gamepad for FPS and Birds of Prey (considering the poor flight stick support right now).

I will be shocked and impressed if the patch allows me to use my TM16000 and assign any function to any button/axis. The game may get some play time if that occurs.

omg are there really people who still think fps is only for mouse and keyboard?

grow up
BTW
This game (il2 birds of prey) lacks a good 80 percent of the commands of a full flight sim such as 1946. Thus playing the game with a joystick is not really going to give you any sort of edge , especially when the new patch hits (half trigger will give you cockpit view control)

If we are talking a fully set up flight sim like 1946 , keyboard and joystick would be needed for full simulation of the airplane (fuel mixtures ect.) But this patch is not adding any of those simulation aspects thus the entire point of adding keyboard support is a pretty big waste of time for anyone involved.

like i said earlier , if you can handle controlling a plane with a mixture of key strokes and inputs from a joystick , you should have absolutely no issue with using a controller like everyone else.

Its my opinion that the developers wasted a good amount of time with QA testing and legalities of enabling keyboard and pc flight stick support (every flight stick company would have to be contacted) When all they had to do was test a simple change in some code .

Now the 360 version is completely murdered , i have been attempting to join games nonstop for the past 3 days and have joined 1 room with 1 other player in it.

I dont care what any of you say , i know you love anton and his crew , but there is something disgustingly wrong with having a hugely successful game waiting to get patched for like 3 months because they want to add controllers to 1 version of the game that doesnt even need it. All the while both versions are not functioning properly and people are trading the game in

Are PS3's non-existant in your world or something?

what?

read my post again

Cut the bs. I think almost everyone here have heard your whining of this same thing weeks now. Thats fine if you had said this once or two, but this just makes you sound stupid, i'm sorry. Patch is coming and you cannot do anything about it. I'm gonna enjoy this game with keyboard and stick. And I think i'm not the only one. This game is good with pad, but if they give us opportunity to have more, why not.

Ahh, ur right. I mis-read. My bad.

Actually you need to grow up. If you like to use gamepads, then you should be able to use them. I can't stand playing games with them, so I should have an alternative - such as wheels, flight sticks, and yes - a mouse and keyboard.

And yes, a flight stick gives you an edge if it is properly implemented. A short thumb activated analogue stick is not as precise as a longer stick that you control with your entire hand.

Again, if you like using the gamepad, then YOU keep using it. I refuse to play games that force me to use one unless it makes sense for the game type.

Such great news - thanks guys for listening. I will be back in the skies on the dsay of the patch and pay for the DLC

Does anyone know if a cockpit only option is being added in the patch?

No, it's not.

:evil: lol

If you hate gamepads that much, why did you waste your money on a console?

That's easy. Gran Turismo and plenty of decent wheel choices.

So my money wasn't wasted. Prologue is still good fun and GT5 will land soon.

Also, I will play certain games with a gamepad if it makes sense (platform games for example). But even games that work well with gamepads like Street Fighter IV are more fun on a fighter game layout 6 to 8 button gamepad or joystick.

To me, it's like racquet sports. I like ping-pong, tennis, and racquet-ball - I wouldn't be enjoying any of those sports if there was only one racquet that was designed to play all 3 - it wouldn't be enjoyable at all. With PC gaming dying and consoles taking over - the closed console platform with licensing requirements really limits choices. Since it seems consoles will take over - I hope they mature a bit more and give gamers more choices like they had on the PC all along.

I wouldn't own a console at all if the PC game market was as healthy as it used to be - times change, but I shouldn't have accept something less sophisticated and lacking in depth - that's going backwards.

I'm glad I found someone that shares the same love for GT5. I use the GT Driving Force Pro and I love that wheel.

Well, PUT ! People don't understand that if everyone has the same thing then that limits your choices. Its like that in Damn near everything. When something gets to big and dominating, then choice and diversity suffer.

Look at the new COD. They are making so much money they don't care about their customers any more. I still can't believe that (IW) COD got rid of servers for pc ! Thats INSANE ! to think that they would screw over their pc fan base like that. Even worse is, they don't care. They make so much money on the console version that they came straight out and said Screw you Pc gamers.

Pc gaming has always had the most choice for your money, Its Sad but true we are going Backwards instead of forwards.

Desode

wow, I remember when the first COD came out, bought it for the pc on release, did it not come out for pc only at first? what a shame, Im quite good in the new one for ps3 though :)

That may not surprise most. :-P

lol, im not kidding but thanks to il2 birds of prey I can spot enemies on COD faster and at longer range, also my reflexes are better (even the way I shoot, small bursts with more accurate results) :) have any of you guys noticed this?

LOL, we need to play more. Send me a message when your on. As for shooting in bursts, You don't need to in CoD. The recoil is almost non-existant, even in LMG's XD

LOL I love how some people (this is a general comment, not directed at you Desode) delude themselves into thinking publishers care about customers. Their marketing is devised to make us think they do, but they really don't. In fact the Activision CEO recently came out and actually said screw gamers, screw innovation, churn out sequels in a shareholder meeting. Publishers are in it for the money.

Developers on the other hand, while also in it for the money, do tend to care more about their product, but they unfortunately are overruled by the publishers. This may be why people prefer PC gaming over console at times - because the developers can support their product without publisher intervention once it is out in the wild and so can add features and fixes as requested by the communities.

I hear you 100% , I 'm talking about the insanity of screwing your consumer and in turn screwing your company out of Years of money. Yeah Activision is making a killing , but if you can use tech that you already have made for the game engine (servers) why would you take that out and lose 15% in sales that you could of had ?

That to me is Crazy ! I know there is no feeling/emoution from a publisher for a consumer, but why throw away money and why throw away future consumers that now Hate you as a publisher, when there was no need for it at all ? That is insane to me.

@ InfiniteState, I hear what your saying and I agree with you, it does seem that people take it personally when a publisher bends their consumers over.
People should understand that they are there to make money and thats all they care about.

There are a lot of us out here that don't take it personal like that. We look at how Dumb they are buisness wise for doing what they are doing. In a 8 year period EA did this and their stock fell 27% till they started showing respect for their consumers again. Repeat customers mean more money. EA has atleast to a small degree learned that it is ,good money making buisness, to support your consumer base. It appears that Activision is going to learn this the hard way in the future. They are a public company and when they lose even 8% of their return consumer base then their share holders will throw a fit just like EA dealt with. I know I have 25,000 shares in EA.
My little Gamestop here has only sold 7 copies of MW2 (pc ver). They had 169 Pc copies preorderd and 162 were canceled. Now I'm out in the sticks in a small little town in Ohio. If that happened here,,, Well it wasn't the only place it happened.
Desode

There is one ps3 developer that does it almost completely the opposite of everyone else, Idol Minds which made Pain. Though I dunno if they're the dev or the publisher.

Most games are made for $50 to $60, then they get a few add-ons over the next couple months and then are forgotten.

Pain is the opposite, it was released, what is it, two years ago by now as a $10 download, with only 4 areas and 4 modes. Since then they have regularly released new content, including about 8 new modes, at least 4 add-on sets with 4 areas each, about 20 new characters, added online multiplayer with its own modes, like darts and castle demolition. It is one of the first games to be patched for in-game music in full surround, and also one of the first to add a video-capture mode to the replay, so you can set the camera angles and speeds and edit the video without quitting the game, export it to mp3, and upload it directly to youtube.

Each add-on is a few bucks, all of them together would end up being about probably $50 for the game all told.

Every once in a while they throw a freebie in there, the latest was the Fat Princess, who cusses up a storm, belches and farts. They're actually still creative, because they're still making money from the same game. I wish they'd all follow the Pain model. Idol Minds is great.

You must understand that every business is in it to make money. Weather it's the producer of milk, or a vidoegame publisher/developer.

Some just go about it better than others. (Clears throat very loudly!)

I agree with you on most of your post but this bit had me thinking....
Why on earth do you think gamepads have two thumbsticks? they were designed for FPS games, unlike pc and mouse, which are peripherals used to browse the web and write documents, with game just an extra. a gamepad has just enough buttons for a game to use, a keyboard uses only a tiny fration of the keys and leaves the rest of your keyboard to waste precious deskspace... this alle makes me believe that controllers are better for FPS games, even though I am both a console and PC gamer...

just because YOU are unable to handle a certain peripheral does not mean the entire peripheral does not make sense....

I didn't say the gamepad doesn't make sense, it does.

But in a "jack of all trades, master of NONE" sort of way.

It's the swiss army knife of the gaming world.

Just as in gaming, I wouldn't enjoy being forced to use the fold out screw driver in my swiss army knife to work on home improvement projects when a drill would be so much nicer.