With regards to the time thing, is it possible to set time with a script? If so it would open up a lot of interesting possibilities. As long as we knew beforehand what time sunset occurs at, the server/in-game time could be reset to simulate advancing to the next day.

What would need to be done in such a case is to find a way to handle airborne aircraft during the time switch.

For example, mission start is at 4:45 am or something similar (as soon as there's enough sunlight to safely takeoff), allowing bombers an early start (if people start flying bombers) and fighters a chance to get some altitude while harder to spot.

Then, one hour, half an hour and 15 minutes before the sun sets, an on-screen message notifies players about this so they can schedule their return to base.

Assuming people play along this could work fine, but with a bit more scripting it might be possible to account for people staying airborne all the way to sunset.

Upon sunset, the script would clear all aircraft from play and return players to the lobby (effectively simulating the end of combat for the day and the start of the next day's operations). Then, we need a way to decide what happens with planes that were still airborne during the time switch.

This would need getting an ID and distance from the closest frontline marker, possibly even a bearing to it so that the script can know if we are behind enemy lines. Then, depending on which side of the lines and how far in we are and coupled with a bit of a random element, we could have a scripted outcome presented to us as a text message.

Think something like player blackdog has safely returned to base/got lost and ditched in the channel due to lack of fuel and is MIA/got lost and bailed out over friendly lines/bailed out over enemy lines/got lost and landed on an enemy field, etc.

Then it's a matter of how much we want to take things further. More variables could be applied in deciding if the pilot makes it home or gets captured/goes missing, like for example proximity of friendly or enemy airbases,ships or ground units. Finally, this could be incorporated into a stat tracking system once one becomes available, so each side's losses in pilots and aircraft get tracked.

I'll leave this here since it's starting to get way ahead of itself. I wish i knew how to code in c#, i've spent quite some time designing the whole thing in my head but i just don't know how to implement it, so i'm just throwing ideas around in the hope that someone picks it up and runs with it :-P

In all honesty however, once we get past the optimization, graphics and sound fixes and start moving on to gameplay related issues, i'd really like to see a server running a full day/night cycle so that we can fly bombers at night. The problem with this would be our real life timezones, it wouldn't be fun for people in Europe to always fly in daylight and people in US to always fly at night, but that too could be solved by such a time-adjusting script by skipping a night to reverse the in-game time's relation to our real timezone.

For example, it's Monday and the server is synchronized with GMT time, so anyone flying from Europe during the evening will mostly fly at night. Then, the daylight portion of the mission plays out but once it gets to sunset it doesn't progress into night flying, instead it advances to the next day like in the initial example i mentioned. This will reverse the in-game time in relation to real time and for the next day people in Europe flying during their evening time will have daylight in-game time while people in the western hemisphere now get the night sorties.

Another way would be to run only a portion of the in-game night time, having a mission run from 4:45am in-game time to 01:00am in-game time and then advancing to the next day with the aforementioned "clean up" of still flying aircraft and randomized outcomes for them. This way, each time we fly during our regular RL gametime (mostly evenings for the majority of people), we'd get a slightly different part of the in-game day: since the server would only run 20h 15min out of a 24h day the in-game time would gradually "creep" out of sync with RL time each day, giving us a different spot to fill.

It's still early days for night time flying, but it would be awesome once they correct the remaining issues with bombers. Searchlights, flak and radio-assisted navigation for LW bombers, same for Blenheims minus the radio-nav, more chances for tactical, team oriented gameplay with less fighters in the air and if someone does hop in a fighter, it would be pretty interesting trying to find and intercept bombers in the dark with nothing but radar vectors from ground control to guide you.

371 hours of Clod nearly exclusive absolved in the 109 do not change anything... Its not the imperfect handling (not that i am perfect - i am far from it) but the Spit IIa is just totally superior.

Winger

Winger, its been taking out again..fyi

I read it, thanks!

Winger

PS: thanks god. Will be playing there again tomorrow then. Cu up in the air!

Bliss, thanks for the airfield away from the coast.... nice to have that choice and space to get 10K altitude before reaching Hawking - much better for the Mk1a! Gives you the option of giving cover to the guys below with a bit of E or going higher to intercept.

Bliss did you see my post regarding the bailout/AI script situ?

Hi Bliss, thanks for all the work your doing server side. May I make a suggestion, would it be possible just for one week, to run a channel map with no AI, no Ships and very little cloud, just make it a pure dog fight server, and allowing bombing and stafing of the airfields. I think this would bring a tremendous amout of people to your server and reduce the amount of pauses/stutters /FPS drop caused by all the other stuff.

Just a suggestion. :grin: S!

Tree there are lots of dogfight servers! ATAG is awesome because of the AI and the continuous nature of the missions. Bliss please DONT do this!

~S~ Tree

Im not sure i agree with that fella, as stated above ATAG isnt a dogfight server, and having things to bomb should be bringing others into the mix that dont generally wanna DF...I cant see removing them making 'more' people join?

I for one like taking down AI bombers just as much as human players..and tbh if they were not around these last couple of nights i wouldn't of had anything else to do :rolleyes:

Clouds- I'm not sure if they are causing Lag or not so that may be an option until they have optimized things further.

Strafing- Im all for that and its the side being strafed responsibilities to CAP

Only if you and all your buddies are willing to fly the He111s :)

Pure dogfight is what I am trying to get away from. Bliss is trying to create on-going missions which are objective based.

Have to agree..

Please dont have just a DF server..AHhhh, plenty of servers for that.

Do agree that things can get a bit choppy now but its only been this bad since the latest Beta so lets hope they fix it again for the official release

I only get a small freeze every now and then. Nothing that seriously impacts my enjoyment and I agree with the other statements about why the ai bombers and things should be kept in.

ATAG's server guys do a good job.

Its no problem when there is 20 people on but when the number is 30 and above is when it gets laggy and unplayable for me.
I know people like the AI flights but cant we reduce the numbers and test it?

Plus, Bliss do we really need 40 ships each side of the channel? it looks unrealistic and with all the dots showing through the terrain it looks quite silly.

10 ships for each side spaced over 2 areas out would be fine.

Don't take me wrong I am too in the fray of those that sill hve to learn a lot :cool:

Regarding full day and night server with a switch to break the period (BlackDog post) I am all for this !

Regarding the script for managing airborne aircraft I hve got this simple rule when night falls :
If you fly Single eng plane then you are dead
If you fly a multi-engined plane then you live trough the switch and your aircraft will be spawned on next map at the same distance from the front line

My guess is that there will be a lot of interesting activities ard airfields from marauding twin engined aircrafts and returning fighters racing back to base to avoid a death penality. On the same principles, early morning mission cld prove interesting with fighters scrambling to give chase to some attarded twins .

Keep the AI!

There are plenty of DF opportunities downstairs and on other servers - ATAG has mission goals set in the summer of 1940. Having AI is a great attraction for anyone who wants to cut their teeth in MP and probably why its the most popular server.

You catch more Bears with Honey!

Yep I see that too...to be honest it has to stay or go, one or the other..this will just lead to jumps and declines in numbers when the map changes :!:

i know 1 thing for certain, it leads to my evil twin, trumps the vulchmaster creating mayhem at any field that spawns a IIa ;)

Craig

Just took the bf109E4 for a spin. Found a flight of Blenheims heading home. Came in below and to the left of the aircraft on the left hand side of formation and let him have it.
Was gratified to see my first burst take his tail assembly clean off.
Zoomed above the formation and rolled in for another attack. Found a Blenheim lagging behind his buddies, dived on him and er.........it's my first victim still flying along straight and level minus everything behind the rear-turret!!!

I'd like to recommend the rear-gunner for a decoration as he was still blasting away at me although he would have been better off de-mounting his Lewis gun and shooting Arnie style through the open rear fuselage.

Hacked away at his engines with remaining cannon ammo but he wouldn't go down!
Will report this as a bug.

That Blenheim must have been made in Birmingham.

Watch it!....I was born in Birmigham....:grin:

As for the no AI.......whilst Ze-Jamz was notching up a cricket score for the Blues I decided to spend the entire session (must be mad but I am from Birmingham!) at 20K altitude on both sides of the pond - I didn't run into a single player the entire time. So keep the AI as its mighty lonely up there!

I was looking for the German Bombers Spawn point but what I came across was a group dangling in the air, motionless and pointing every which way, some nose down, others nose vertically up like models on string. T'was a sight to behold.

Hey I just put a couple of 20mm in your spit at 20kft yesterday. AI I am not - wait... let me think about

(you was cutting wings away on some of the 111 in the flight and choose to spiral down your base just bellow)

From time to time you've some action with real players but for sure you'll hve to CAP until you get really bored

Yes, I remember that!......one of the few occaisions that a Bomber Group had an escort. I did see someone break away going low in the distance but thought "nah ...they never have escorts! Must be an allied disengaging!"- I was wrong! Very low on ammo so - "run and live to fight another day" -my motto! :grin:

So was me dad :)

I'm finding more and more that they do have escorts. It's a great way to play the game. It's a lot easier to spot the bomber formations than a single fighter so they tend to draw players to them, friendly and otherwise.

Plus it's an amazing feeling to bounce an enemy fighter attacking a flight of your bombers and send him packing. Feels just like a film.

Yep I agree, firstly please...just Jamz not as in Sig not ze-jamz (login rubbish) :)

Escorting bombers is a great way to get into some high Alt fights and it's good form immersion too, I was even escorting MajorBorris who was in a 111 too which was mucho fun..bounced a Spit that got on his tail but then took a load of lead from his wingman who done the same to me...good teamwork (75thAg or something like that)

I ended up with 33-1 of which 4 were human pilots...lol the 1 came from flying through the 3 hangers at the Hurri base when there was hardly anyone on the server last night around 12pm. Had some good fun

Ty1988,Trumps, MjBorris who i winged with and everyone else on the server.

~S~

Also I have to add, I think we all have to agree that the 109e4 is good at what it was orig intended for..taking down bombers, or at least the other variant DBAa engine was.

The Reds have a bit of a torrid time taking down bombers though IMO, I'm not to bad accuracy wise but still have a mission taking down bombers in a Spitty, bit easier I find in a Hurri maybe cuz of gun arrangment though some people are good with both.

So I can understand Red mostly not flying high ATM..mostly all the bombers get intercepted by the Blue side so it's sure way to get some action and more enjoyment whilst flying (immersion)

Winging and comms adds to that, so if your able to get that Mic setup! :)

No prob with that m8. I do the same. Sometime even faster :oops:

@ Bliss or any other map makers for ATAG

Again il ask the question as it seems to get lost or ignored :rolleyes:

There is a script that is sorting out this whole ESC and create another AC situation being wrote..can it be implemented into what you guys are doing?


# I.e bailout still records a Death (plane)
# ESC and creating another AC during flight records a death

And killer and killed names are shown on both counts

Im sure with friendly permission you could use it...I read that If you ESC and create another AC midflight (mostly when youve just been spanked) spawns another aircraft for you with its tail missing or fuel pump nonoperational for a certain time period

Its triggered after a certain time so hill starts would affect it..and tbh the amount of times people bail cuz they've been bounced or have taken hits is silly..nearly eveyone you shoot down is AI in this game, on top of that you have to put up wiht the AC warping like hell while it turns into AI..

Just stupid imo, Ive even seen pilots bail out without taking hits cuz they know they are in trouble..

Dont get me wrong ive give up on nursing a badly shot up AC home cuz I know I can esc and create another, I like the scoring in IL2 where you have to nurse your AC home unless you want a death recorded against you..if you bail then it depends on where you bailed as to whether you survive or not

I get a lot of pleasure nursing my badly damaged aircraft home which is just as well given the number of times I have been shot up :lol:

They really need a refly button on this game

sounds fair enough, so long as ditching, bellylandings, bailouts, and dodgy spawns are taken into account with ESC use. i at least think that kills for that mission should not count if the plane is ESC'd from an another spawned.

Craig

Same here mate, there is nothing cooler than nursing home a barely flying smoking wreck and then nailing the perfect landing.

Craig

Im not sure the game code can mark a kill against the AC alone via DMG..

I.e if you nurse it home you are not killed but the plane is out of action so the shooter gets the kill credit

So if you bail or ESC to join a squadmate or need a Pee and havent sustained DMG you dont get anything recorded it just turns into AI

If you crash while in AC or ESC after sustaining DMG you get a Death instantly, if you Bail then depends on where you are on map whats recorded

You think?

Believe me if you take away the scoring system people will fly like asshats...not caring about what they kill how they fly, you wouldnt get people taking the time out to bomb stuff if they didnt get credited for the kill/score

Taking away a scoring system on MP is silly :?

My reply was an answer as to why we 'shouldnt' take away the scoring system as you suggested ;)

heck yes some sort of scoring system for the groundpounders, make it worth their while. they are what the air war was all about!

Craig

Well ones things for sure..the whole scoring system needs some loving

:cool:

~S~

I just was playing on ATAG again. The UFO is back. Guys this makes the game pointless. I dont get it. I for my part have no fun playing on a server that has this plane in the set. Sorry. And sorry for myself since it looks like everyone has jumped on that train. This is soo sad.
And btw. The "scanfor enemies noobiefeature" Padlock seems to be on on this server. That sucks also. Please disable it.
Winger

?? What scan for noobie feature are you on about?

And i hope its not back, you cant have some maps with it on and others not..whats the point in that?

I dont get that either tbh

Padlock. Press the button and automatically look to the enemy. This feature negates spotting the enemy by yourself and also negates the possibility to surprise the enemy.
Sucks

Winger

LOL..

Surely thats a mistake to have that enabaled?....

This is a bloody joke, I can no longer fly on this server with the mk2 on it... they just vulch u 24 7 at least other in england they have the cover of flak to take off......

Yes, and on german sider ther is flak. But it just shoots holes into the air and is noa harm for the vulchers at all. Cmon ATAG team. You can do better than that!

Winger

Cmon guys. Simmer down a bit.

I can't always check these forums. Out of 3 of the administrators I think I'm the only the one that does on a regular basis. There's 3 of us building missions and trying to test them. The best place to leave feedback is on our own forums where everyone of the mission builders checks: http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/

Missions are far from easy to create with IL2COD. Watchman's map, the current one, has over 2000 lines of C# to give you an idea. I think he's been working on it for a few months now. And quite honestly, I think an objective disables the spitIIa if I remember correctly. (Could be wrong) But if you want the feed back to be read by everyone, especially the by mission makers, or to get an idea of what you're supposed to be doing in the missions, you really should get on our forums. I believe there's even a stats page for that mission.

As far as padlock, if it's on, then it's a bug, because the realism settings haven't changed and shows padlock off.

Some of the comments really are uncalled for. This is far from easy trying to learn on the fly. My mission, which I consider fairly simple has had well over 500 versions including trying to test them. That's a hell of a lot of hours. Hopefully some of you understand that.

Just in support of Bliss's post, I was on the server on Sunday night and the SpitII was on it by mistake. ATAG_Watchman immediately took it off.

Best see if one of the ATAG guys is on Ventrilo and ask him to sort it.

Yeah, it was a mistake it shouldn't have been on, Watchman sorted it out :D

~S~ Bliss

I for one appreciate and Im sure i speak for all the time put into yer server m8..

Im sure judging by the padlock situ it was a error the Spit2 being in there..it was available at all the red bases and the blues were being vulched constantly, It was all Spit2's apart from Valec in his Hurri..

People were actually joining and leaving before they even had a flight due to seeing it there and what they were doing with it..

Shame it was happening tbh..forget about the 'yea but this is war BS' Airfields getting staffed is one thing but getting straffed by the Mk2 is another and completely irritating for the Blues..I think Krupi got vulched 3 times in concession...

Is there any need for it?

To add a point on the Flak situ on the French side, it works but its no where near as intense and effective as on England...Ive def noticed it

Vulching has been a problem for the Reds too and a bit of moderation is needed. I and others have been vulched on numerous occaisons on the previous map.

Blame for this falls on the player not on Bliss or the ac being used.

Be fair, there are comments (in this thread) condoning vulching as a means of preventing Spit Mk2 getting airborne........you are either against it or for it as a matter of principle irrespective of plane sets! It shouldn't be happening, maybe the Spit Mk2 could be moved to the Isle of Wight if it is to be part of the plane set - it's a long haul to Cherbourg - I know, I did it! I doubt the cowboy jockeys will be arsed to fly that distance!

i accept all responsibility for advocating the vulching extermination program against the IIa, and pushed it as a legit solution to keeping these ufo's out of the sky. i personally dont have a problem with vulching, and sort of get a kick out of trying to get airborne while under fire, but reserve my own efforts to only the IIa's.
The ATAG mission builders are doing a bloody fantastic job of trying to create an objective based server, and add life to the maps, there are always going to be a few little glitches or bugs that sneak through, thats what happens with missionbuilding on the fly, there is usually atleast one of the guys on the vent server who is only too interested to hear if anyone has discovered a bug.
Great job Bliss and crew, you guys really are setting the standard, and have created the place to fly in the CloD world!

Cheers
Craig

Yes Trumps, understand but disagree! Where is this .....'its a satisfying challenge to get off the ground whilst being vulched' in the previous posts?

I just had quick session on the new map and guess what? I was vulched twice in a Spit Mk1a during and shortly after take off by a BF!

The Mk1a hasn't got the legs to do anything as its getting airborne against a BF with mash, more energy and frigging cannons to boot.......this argument works both ways buddy, except it's the Red Mk1 pilot evading a UFO if he has no cover!

I took the spit Mk2 (on the previous map) on the afternoon, there were only a few players. I wasn't interested in DF's, just take off, get to 20K quickly and chop a few wings of enemy AI. But no chance! A BF came in low over Hawking, took out a low flying Spit and then had a go at me - so I killed him - if he hadn't bothered me I wouldn't have got involved!

Not impressed and I'm not having a dig at you or any of the guys! There ought to be a few Spit Mk2's available to deal with this problem!

I kind of have to agree about this with SEE.

Though I'm not advocating any kind of 'regulation' on vulching, I'm certain that the solution to seeing Mk IIa's on the server is not to just shoot anything that moves on a runway. At least don't claim it as some kind of 'virtuous' act for the benefit of the server population.

What would YOU do if you tried to get airborne and every time you took your plane out, someone with a better performing, better situated plane shot you down? Pick a better plane? Or quit I suppose.

Actually, I don't have to ask, that's exactly what some of the 109 pilots are saying they do when they see a Mk. IIa on the server, only they can't pick a better plane so they choose option B and quit.

I'm still not totally convinced that the IIa is the undefeatable uberplane people are saying it is. If it is such a superior plane, find a wingman and fly with them. It's not hard. Just hang about your airfield or region until you find another pilot and form up. Don't need to be on coms, or chat or whatever. Just latch onto his wing and fly with him. Probably most encounters you're having are against single aircraft anyway unless it's bomber ai. 2v1 should defeat this Mk IIa unless you're swiftly bounced with no warning.

Anyway, it's just getting to me. I'm sucking it up in my Mk Ia against all you guys and trying hard and having some success for it. If the Mk IIa is on by mistake, give the ATAG guys a little credit for their hard work and do your best. You might find you have one of your best flights and come up a winner against this super plane and that'll probably feel pretty good. I suggest escorting bombers with high top cover. Any RAF pilot worth his salt should be trying to take out the bombers before the fighters anyway. Plus, he's likely to think you're a friendly fighter attacking the bombers and you can surprise him.

PS. Please don't tell me to 'just fly the hurricane'. I'm not a hurricane pilot. I've got nothing against the hurricane. It did all the hard work and the spitfire got all the praise for it. I'm just not interested in flying it.

Getting off the plane list debate for a second:

Flew tonight during the Operation Mongoose mission and had an interesting encounter.

It was late so there were few people on the server and I was looking at the player list and noticed no Blue forces. I relaxed a bit (I was ove France at the time) since I figured no enemy fighters would be about.

Of course, it's right about this time that two 109s jump me from above. And me in my Mk Ia Spitfire.

Fortunately, they were terrible shots and wasted a lot of their ammo while I tried to get on their sixes. I got some bullets into one 109, but quickly after that my ailerons were cut.

Let me tell you, that's a long flight back to England using just your rudder and elevator. Not to mention the 109 that is still following me and pumping led into my tail. Luckily, he didn't manage to hurt anything else in my plane.

I even managed to land (used emergency landing gear co2) and would have saved the prop if it hadn't been for the fact that I came in without flaps (flaps would have made the speed too slow for me to control the roll with the rudder) and was speeding towards the hangars at the end of the runway. I had to break harder than I wanted and put the nose in the dirt. Watch out for flying deHavilland!

Home safe and sound, but an interesting lesson in never thinking that you're safe when you're over enemy territory.

The problem with vulching against the reds is that if you remain under 2000m it's only a matter of time before you start getting pounded by bofors.

This is not the case against the blues that don't have the luxury of heavy aa defence which is why I was bounced by two spits three times in a row.

I fly reds if the teams are not even and I have never experienced vulching like that they had a no opposition and didn't have to worry about aa.

Anyway thanks again for providing us with your server and hats off to the number if hours you guys have spent on mission building thank you.

Please give false information over sea level !!!! sea level Spit IIa WEP 482 Km/h WEP Bf E4 460 Km/h

Lmao 460 in a 109 at sea level, perhaps after a dive yes but from take off it's more like ~400.

Not dive! 10 hours propeller WEP 460 Km/h

He wants it to fly head to meetings and not complain. :)

The vulching argument goes back as far as IL-2 '46, Aces High and even Air Warrior for those that have been around long enough to remember it.

The answer is not to allow the enemy to vulch you. How? Take off from a rear base and have the patience to gain altitude and get yourself a better situation. One thing the ATAG server needs is more of the distant bases like Hornchurch, Tangmere, or even mid-bases like Biggin Hill and Kenley (which I have seen on some maps).

If you want to jump up at Hawkinge for a quick fight you must expect to get vulched if the LW are willing to risk the AAA. Taking risks like that is pure 'dogfight server' mentality although as someone said, sometimes the adrenalin is worth it but don't complain if you get killed :) As I understand it the ATAG server is not a 'dogfight server'. And by the way, RAF Manston frequently suffered attacks including 'vulching' and they abandoned it for daytime fighter operations in the end because it was too close to the enemy.

The LW bases should be just as heavily defended with AAA as the RAF bases. Why not?

The SpitII is not an uber plane. I ran some quick top speed tests on it and it is actually a little below the real thing, e.g. 6,500' Boost 5.3, RPM 2990 ASI 280 but should be 290. At 20,000' its supposed to be 269 but I only got 245 (I could never get the boost figures given in the following test but that doesn't necessarily translate into performance in the MG FM). For those interested see Boscombe Down testing results:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4598146/Pi...lin-XII-Engine
and Pilots Notes may also be interesting (but no top speed figures):
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4598146/Pi...lin-XII-Engine

The SpitII speed deficiency is no big deal under the current circumstances but may become an argument in the other direction if the 109s are fixed to perform as they should. The problem is not the SpitII, its those other aircraft that are dogs compared with what they should be. And we haven't even seen what the Rotol MkI Spits will be like.

Also the SpitII is not responsible for vulching success. Thats down to the players and is just as achievable in a SpitI, Hurricane or even a Blenheim (except its very hard for the LW guys to do much about the SpitII even if they have managed to get into the air).

The SpitII is only at an advantage in a fight and of course its a problem at the moment so I understand it being taken off. Currently the Rotol Hurri isn't a bad stand-in.

Ok I don't know where this has gone but it's starting to go off rails again....Spit2 is old now, you either include it and have the moaning or don't include it and noone complains! and the sides are still mostly even lately....Go figure!

The vulching has nothing to do with the Spit2 being ingame, vulching happen and I'm not against it, what I'm against is it happening when there is NO AA cover or lack of it and it's in a Spit2 that are by the truckloads because it available all over the bloody place.

You mention being vulched in a 109 in England? Sure, stay there long and your lose a wing...go try it, also if you get low and silly your lose against the Spit (mostly), that's the difference, you cannot do anything against the Mk2, is this so hard to understand by either side, you cannot run from it at level speed or Dive from it so how do you evade it? Take a wingman again?

So what were saying then unlike every other ww2 flight sim we now have to fly in pairs to survive a plane that's been introduced and by all accounts has a much better FM than anything else in game...

I spend a lot of time in Repka flying the Mk2 so I'm speaking from experience. I also don't get shot down that much due to stupidly high (lonely) heights in the 109 so it's not sour grapes either.

SO

Spit2 is superior so please let's not keep having this discussion, it's overmodeled, everyone can see it, everyone agrees, Bliss took it out after spending time in both rides, you add that to being available at all bases, then top it off with hardly any AA defence and your having a rubbish time on the server..

None of this happened to me, not once btw, I was seeing it and reading it for about 2 hours hence why I posted, this has nothing to do with take the Spit2 out cuz people are vulching so let's end that there shall we.

If your answer to the Spit2 is get a wingman then fine again were leave it there...there was no issues, no BS and no moaning by EITHER sides until that thing was introduced, again...go figure

Talk about de-railed

What the Germans have a problem?Alt 5000 m Spit IIa IAS 418 Km/h Bf E4 IAS 422 Km/h

Valec what are you going on about?

Are we discussing the same subject here?

It's nice you have the comparison, you are an experienced pilot and you have flown both sides so you know how much the spit is overmodeled or the 109 is underpowered, you make that choice..

If you don't think that's the case fine..like I've said before and il say it again, if you can't dive or run away from the Spit2 what do you do?

Your saying that we have to fly in pairs and above 5/6k right? Which by your accounts the 109 is 4kph faster, OK so you expect the Spit2 to come up to that height, a bit of advice, they won't, they're go to another server.

This argument is getting pathetic now, il stay doing what I'm doing..what I don't like to see is people leaving the server straight away who were flying it quite happily the days before...even sides no bitching.

Lmao come on valec i have yet to find a red pilot at that height, maybe 2000 and for good reason why would they want to fly high where they loose advantages.

ATAG are a unbiased squad they fly both sides and THEY have taken the spit 2 off.

When the Germans will fly high there will need to allies as well :) I poured mostly 5000 and accompany bombers or shooting

People won't even post here about it now let alone fly in the server cuz off this situation...not good

But I do get it...

Fly in pairs over 5k, must be the only Sim where I have HAD to do that to survive in a 109 against a Spit (early)

The only trouble is I will only be fighting AI..

On a side note Valec..let me know if you wanna do some testing and il show you that the 4kph advantage up high IS the ONLY advantage the 109e3/4 has over the Mk2....

So your saying that this is historically correct and accurate?

I posted som critics over at your forum bliss. Hope this will help improving the experience for the blue side and normally also for the red side (players that actually seek a challenge and not to slaughter defenseless biddies):)

Winger

But still much more maneuverable. Heck those numbers may be REAL numbers but surely not CloD numbers. Stop talking things green.

Winger

I never said it's historically correct. You need only to take advantage of their aircraft. For example, at high speeds ailerons, max dive, suppress etc.

numbers are from the game !!!!!!!!

SEE, if not in this thread then in many others pertaining to vulching I have stated that I don't have a problem being the intended victim. If it ever gets too bad I just move bases, not that anyone bothers much with the bases I fly from usually, they don't seem to be much interested with a cruddy old E-1 base, or 110 base. All it would mean to me is I may have to change to a base with a more capable plane! Before I start on the IIa vulching I always make sure to find out exactly which field they spawn from and where the spwn points are, I at least try to be as surgical about it as possible, if you don't like it then this is unfortunate, but while this is an anything goes server then I, well the evil twin will be out to PK as many of you as possible while you are warming up your precious merlins ;) please do let me know if I am inadvertently hitting a 1 or 1a spawn by mistake!

Craig

CoD playing in over 400 hours and you?

Lol come on valec I could have a pathetic go at your measly 9 posts in my eyes that's the same as saying I have X number of hours in game.

At the end of the day it's hard fighting hurris in the 109 and if you get dragged into a dogfight with a spit mk1 your dead, the spit mk2 is the best at everything it turns better than the spit mk1 and is faster than the hurri the 109 is easy meat agains it.

On the whole vulching thing I'm not a fan but it's not my server and 90% of the time if I see a red taking off I will shadow him for a few minutes rather than taking him out just after take off!

You know what funny..

It was taking out once the Admins decided it was too much 'until' yes that right UNTIL the FM's on ALL aircraft have had some work done on them...

NO ONE COMPLAINED, the server was busy, very busy and even with no moaning or bitching..Its back for one map and look what happens?

Watchman changed the map yesterday once he found out about the Spit2 and guess what...the server had the same numbers in again within 10 mins and the teams were Even.

What are we arguing about again....?

Take the E-4 out then too if it makes everyone happy, I couldnt give a rats ass tbh..there isnt any difference in FM's between the E-3/E-4
Lol I remember chatting yesterday in server ''Lol, Spit2?'' to which Someone, not mentioning no names replied ''Lol, E-4?''

I mean really?

So the ''kept out of servers aircraft'' since the beginning of time is now available because the 109 gets a faster ROF gun..
ridiculous... Get it back to the Spit1/1a-Hurri-E-3 to stop all the moaning and pathectic excuses as to why the mk2 should be ingame now

I have to say Valec, is a very good pilot, I had couple fights with him in his ROTOL Hurriecan, and he is one of the few, who flys high. I can imagine if he gets a SpitII in his hands, then you need a wingman to fight him :)

I like to say, even when I get myself pitching on the ATAG server, when I fight a SpitII and you see the peformance, but, it makes me even more happy to shoot it down. A SpitII guy, knows that as well, that it is hard to fight a SpitII (most of them), soo in this case, I saw already some funny comments, when you shot a SpitII down.

I would move the SpitII further away I guess, and add more AAA on BLUE bases, as I saw the basecamping from a 3-4ship SpitII`s over the 109 E4 base on the last weekend as well. It was pissing off alot of BLUE`s by the fact, that the guys in the SpitII`s looked for landing and taking-off 109E4`s.
I know you can switch the base, but as I remember there is only this base with E4`s with the right ammo.

I have not really a issue if SpitII stays on the server or not, for me and some others, it adds a challange to take, forceing teamplay good situation awarness, to take the fight on or not.

Just my two cents...

Well me in a spit IIa (or any other allied plane for that matter) tend to get owned by AI in a 109x at the moment, for human opponents I just kiss my ass goodbye.... so this argument I find quite amusing. It is fun for a while (b4 I get blasted) but the learning curve is a bit steep.

:)

Mate I was the same when i first started flying here...Completely different to Il2, we all love this game hence why the discussions get a bit heated sometimes i guess

@ mogas

U wouldn't be saying that if u were trying to take off yesterday, two guys were dominating all the 109 bases, bouncing anything that got off the ground...

It was a nightmare I have experienced nothing like it, the aircraft might be at a level pegging at 5000 m but it's no good if the wont let you get past 50m.

This problem lies in two areas (other than the UFO mk 2), lack of aa around blue bases and the new ground target dot that's act like an fing lighthouse on the top of any aircraft that is attempting to take off.

I don't mind the Spit 2 now, it's a good challenge and rewarding when you get one in a dogfight rather than a bounce.

As for the E4 argument, I must give it it to the Spit fliers that the E4 is mean. Every time I got shot down in a Spit the E4 got me with one quick burst. And most of the time I've been in the E4 the Spit I shot down only required one burst of cannon too.

As I said before the Spit 1's climb is appalling and a 109 is very likely circling above and will kill you. It's tough defending against someone high above you the attack is so quick that your connection lag can actually be a factor in your survival.

I thought that I'd be in the E1 because of the cannon FFB issues but there seems to be no cannon FFB or sound when I fly ATAG.

No probs Buddy, I mostly use the inland bases to spawn if available. I completely agree with every one who advises that the best solution is not to put yourself in a position to get vulched in the first place - I asked Bliss to include rear bases as an option for the Mk1's on all maps as these are my first choice when the server is busy.

Its a long haul from the Isle of Wight but a quiet lift off. I won't vulch because I cut my MP teeth on Il946 HL servers that prohibited it and tend to adopt that as a matter of principle now. If others consider vulching as acceptable then that is up to them but they should not complain if they are on the receiving end irrespective of the AC being flown was my point.

# Your saying its a challenge to get into a dogfight with a Spit2? just want to make sure im reading that right :)

# Cannon against 303's..Yep they are more effective as they and are in RL to i presume

# Anything circling above will most of the time shoot you down unless i get into a turn fight with you...In other words if i step into your world OR step into your advantage Zone, Again im just trying to work out what advantage (in game right now) the 109 has....where is the 109's advantage zone?

# I have FFB with cannon

~S~

No probs Buddy, I mostly use the inland bases to spawn if available. I completely agree with every one who advises that the best solution is not to put yourself in a position to get vulched in the first place - I asked Bliss to include rear bases as an option for the Mk1's on all maps and are my first choice when the server is busy.

Its a long haul from the Isle of Wight but a quiet lift off. I won't vulch because I cut my MP teeth on Il946 HL servers that prohibited it and tend to adopt that as a matter of principle now. If others consider vulching as acceptable then that is up to them but they should not complain if they are on the receiving end irrespective of the AC being flown was my point.

Ok we have a decision to make and put to the mission buliders..

Can i just say i don't wanna be the one that bitches about the Mk2 all the time..my argument lies in the fact it was and has been left out and now its included because of a better Rof Cannon...the tit for tat attitude is good on a dogfight isle of doom map but not on the ATAG servers imo

This argument has nothing to do with RL performance it seems and what we've seen, read and played in the past


The options are:

1/ Obviously take the Mk2 out of the planeset...there wasn't a problem before so why all of a sudden is it causing problems now

2/ Take out the E-4 and the Spit2 IF the reason that it is here is because of the mineshells...silly as it sounds it really is starting to look like that

3/ Include all the aircraft..The Spit2 and the E-4 to be put back inland so its a journey to get to the channel, and if your just creating a plane to fly for 2 mins get in a dogfight, die and create another aircraft then that setup wont be for you...take yer Mk1-Hurri-E1/3.

Make sure each side have the same amount of AAA and is effective as it can be...how you can circle low over AF's picking off targets for more than 10-15 seconds without getting blown to bits astonishes me and needs to be addressed.

Make ALL AI bombers high..that way if you don't wanna be a dek monkey or you have a problem with the Low-Med Spit2's then you haven't got to play with them..If the battles are High @ 5-6k the advantages of the Spit2 are not so apparent, though i doubt many will go up there in their Spits the ones that do go high have something to do..

At the moment the mission with the Spit2 has them at frontline bases and then put the blues fav bird right on the coast with no AAA cover or lack off...this is what started this whole debate

these discussions always come up.. they did with the Pony/Dora/Ta & 25lb Spit in Il2..lets not even talk about the Russian birds but can we all just agree with one of the above so no one is surprised when they join the server as they were last night

They can then choose to fly on that server or not

Nice post Jamz, I'm an 18K+ jockey so option 3 but since you cannot regulate altitude I guess that won't work. I think the best option is to just leave the Mk2 out untill the Mk1 gets some legs (limiting its numbers didn't work from what I saw and it wasn't available when I logged in anyway). The E4 should stay.....seeing those explosions around your cockpit is exciting in an odd way....

there is a poll over at the Atag forums on this very subject guys.

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...5-The-Spit-IIa.

Craig

Lol i just started one here Trumps ~S~

thought the more feedback the better

~S~ m8

Vote on the poll ive made please dude :)

ATAG_Bliss PUT HEAD MOVEMENT BACK ON, I NEED IT. Its very useful to tell if your about to stall. I have not been playing on the ATAG server for this (and only this) reason. W/o head movement makes it look like somebody has "pasted" the 109 cockpit on my screen. I rarely complain about things, but I need my head movment.

Head movement? Do you have a track ir?

Yes, I know, I saw it on the weekend 3-4 SpitII camped around the base, as I have posted just before. But basecamping, vulching can be done with SpitI`s as well, thats why I have said, add more AAA on bases....

Btw. SpitII`s are now limited on OPS Mongoose on the ATAG server, to 4x only.....;)

i mentioned it somewhere on the forums. Only 370 hours. I got a life, wife and kid thou:P

Winger

I dont say hes bad. But you can put pretty much every mediocre pilot into a spit II and have only a chance to win if you playing as a team.
There is no glory in a victory achieved with a Spit II over a 109. Diffrent story with Spit Is or hurris. If you win in them you can tell you achieved something since it was actually a fair game!

Winger

I strongly suggest everone register there and vote. This is actually our chance to influence this mess.

Winger

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=26188 :cool:

I have a family too.But I also have CoD :):)

Hey. As you are obviously a good pilot i ask your honest opinion. Does winning in a Spit IIa give you any kind of satisfaction?

Winger

Yes, but much much more I appreciate my victory in a Hurry. You shoot down Spit MkI meets which have no chance?

Hmm.. don't agree with that statement at all m8

If you BnZ a Mk1/1a then your right you don't have a chance (just like the Spit2 wouldnt have a chance as long as you hit it first time or you have stupidly high amounts of 'E' so you can extend and even then the Spit2 'Could' catch you) but then you could say the same as the 109 doesn't have any chance against a Spit1a in a turn fight or at Low altitude?... so the 109 too has no chance

Max speed Spitfire MkI vs Bf E4 0m 394 vs 460 for Bf +66Km/h, 3000m 403 vs 440 for Bf +37Km/h, 5000m 403 vs 422 for Bf +19Km/h. Max speed Spitfire MkIIa vs Bf E4 0m 482 vs 460 for Spit +22Km/h, 3000m 466 vs 440 for Spit +26Km/h, 5000m 418 vs 422 for Bf +4Km/h Which table is fairer?

Lol..

Well thanks for that, it just confirms why everyone is going on about it.. 20/30kph faster? and people think thats fair.

Please dont go on about top speed and height..firstly hardly anyone flys high so that small advantage the 109 has you may as well dismiss it and as for the top speed situation, which you would use for what BnZ tactics? take the Hurri then

If your really worried about climb and top speed take the Hurri which is at your disposal on every map.. if you want to fly low to med and dogfight take the Spit, it was designed for that

That table above just says it all really