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bongodriver 10-28-2011 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proton45 (Post 355423)
I always thought is was the Gregory Peck movie "Twelve O'Clock High"...I heard it was the sequence where they where getting attacked by Messerschmidts, and the crew men of the humble B17 had to defend themselves. Its suppose to synch up with the scene of them defending the Millennium Falcon from Tie fighters...

Perhaps thats true as well, but I was talking specifically about the death star sequence.

MD_Titus 10-28-2011 01:13 PM

Inferior machines stern? Woah, stop the presses, nerf the luftwaffe! For years we've had the mechanical superiority/numerical inferiority of the luftwaffe rammed down our throats and now you say it is a lie!

Mind.

Blown.

IamNotDavid 10-28-2011 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II (Post 355397)
Considering the conditions in which they fought, with inferior machines, lower numbers and difficult logistics, saying that the Allies had better pilots is ludicrous to say the least.

That is a pretty big pantload. Difficult Logistics? The US had to move all their aircraft and supplies across the Atlantic friggin Ocean. German aircraft could be pushed from the factory to the runway. That the Germans were flying inferior machines is also pretty silly.

IamNotDavid 10-28-2011 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II (Post 355397)
make less errors by spotting landmarks and confusing them with something else.

This is also absurd. It's true that pilots over the ocean don't have any landmarks to confuse them. They also don't have any landmarks to save them. Given the choice, I'll take my chances with "confusing" landmarks. IFR is a lot easier when there are roads to follow.

bongodriver 10-28-2011 02:49 PM

if tou can see the surface you wouldnt fly IFR

IamNotDavid 10-28-2011 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongodriver (Post 355464)
if tou can see the surface you wouldnt fly IFR

I Follow Roads.

Sternjaeger II 10-28-2011 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD_Titus (Post 355444)
Inferior machines stern? Woah, stop the presses, nerf the luftwaffe! For years we've had the mechanical superiority/numerical inferiority of the luftwaffe rammed down our throats and now you say it is a lie!

Mind.

Blown.

When I say "inferior machines" I do not merely refer to performance or quality of the planes, but the fact that the flight lines suffered constantly of lack of spares, oils, fuel and ammunition.

Quality-wise there surely was a gap between American and German planes, the main differences being in the availability of materials for industrial production (the Mustang itself was made of at least 40 different kinds of alloys), but technology-wise stuff like the kommandgerat and the jet fighters put the Luftwaffe years ahead.

Sternjaeger II 10-28-2011 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamNotDavid (Post 355452)
That is a pretty big pantload. Difficult Logistics? The US had to move all their aircraft and supplies across the Atlantic friggin Ocean. German aircraft could be pushed from the factory to the runway. That the Germans were flying inferior machines is also pretty silly.

erm, were the Allied harbours, bases and factories continuously hammered throughout the war? No. Did they have limited access to resources like the Germans? No. Did they keep on using the same crews and pilots like the Germans? No. And machines weren't inferior, but suffered from limited logistics, low engines TBOs and general lack of spare parts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamNotDavid (Post 355462)
This is also absurd. It's true that pilots over the ocean don't have any landmarks to confuse them. They also don't have any landmarks to save them. Given the choice, I'll take my chances with "confusing" landmarks. IFR is a lot easier when there are roads to follow.

erm, IFR doesn't rely on landmarks. IFR is actually safer than VFR in terms of long navigation. I appreciate you don't have a VFR or IFR license, that's why you probably don't understand this, but Bongo can confirm this himself I suppose.

bongodriver 10-28-2011 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamNotDavid (Post 355465)
I Follow Roads.

I can't believe I did that.....

David is using a classic aviation annecdote.....

IamNotDavid 10-28-2011 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II (Post 355471)
erm, were the Allied harbours, bases and factories continuously hammered throughout the war? No.

That would not have been a problem if the Germans had superior pilots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II (Post 355471)
Did they have limited access to resources like the Germans? No.

From 1942 to 1944 the Germans had access to all the resources in Europe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II (Post 355471)
Did they keep on using the same crews and pilots like the Germans? No.

Stupid strategic planning is no excuse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II (Post 355471)
And machines weren't inferior, but suffered from limited logistics, low engines TBOs and general lack of spare parts.

boo...hoo...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II (Post 355471)
erm, IFR doesn't rely on landmarks. IFR is actually safer than VFR in terms of long navigation. I appreciate you don't have a VFR or IFR license, that's why you probably don't understand this, but Bongo can confirm this himself I suppose.

I Follow Roads. There are no roads at sea, sparky. The idea that no landmards is better than landmarks is completely absurd.


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