BlackSix's post that mentioned the trees will eventually have a damage model was very good news. I don't see it happening for awhile though, unless the new graphics engine releases enough resources to allow a damage model for each of the uncountable amount of trees on the map. I believe the developers have already modified "SpeedTree" to suit and hopefully they can modify it even more so, and call it "MuchFasterTreesWithACollisionModel" :)

I hope your right! Except if i'm in a tank I would want to be able to push a smallish tree over....and drive over smallish cars... and drive into houses for cover! :)

hhhmmm.... WorldOfTanks? :rolleyes:

I took alook at WorldofTanks, but it didn't make me want to bother downloading it. I didn't see any inside tank screenshots, do you shoot form the outside view? I'm not much of an FPS'er but enjoyed some offline tank play in RO, and bought RO2 thinking I would be able to do the same, but it didn't have that option. I think it would be rather fun operating Tanks on the new IL-2 series terrain when they have a Tree collision model.

Well, lets really hope they fix the trees with the new engine, otherwise 90% of players play on maps without a single tree, so we should wait for the Lybia-Addon for some Tanking.

As far as I understood, WoT doesn´t have so many players, because it has tanks, tactic, graphics or other realism in any way. It is simply addictive due to the scoring and leveling system. Not a single WoT player will move to CloD because in CloD you can drive around in a tank - no the WoT machinery is all about "claning", "leveling", "farming" and who spents more real money into it and is on the score board.
Though I never player WoT, I still play Navyfield from time to time, it is basically the same approach to the teenies wallet.

World of Tanks! :cool:

All I will say is that my system spec (on paper), is better than your rig. I have no problems with: World of Tanks, Wings of Prey and FSX all at medium settings or better.
Using Unigine Heaven Benchmark 2.1, I get 52 fps in DirectX 11. So I don't see much wrong there. The only thing I have on my system inferior to your own is Vista 32 Bit, an OS that the experts tell me is the new 'Millennium'. Incidentally, I can recommend using Unigine Heaven Benchmark that is available as a "freebie" from Nvidia Downloads under the "games" tab. It's great to use, as you can monitor your video graphics after adjustments and the benchmark takes 260 secs to run. Ah well, back to WoT, WoP and FSX and pray the CloD update comes soon and more importantly, works!!!

Regards

Vonte

Did I miss something regarding the tree collision? Because B6 answered to my statement on page 4 (that we now need tree collision for sure) the following:

From my understanding this means, that they are far from releasing a patch with tree collision at least in nearest future.

Not so my friend, you can play for free without paying a bean and still get the "fun" element. As for 200,000 "idiots", that will include disillusioned CloD players!! At least it will run for hours without crashing.

well, you are wrong.... on EU server sometimes i see more than 70,000 players online at the same time, on russian and US I think are 2 or 3 times more... and looking at the sold premium tanks (yes, you can buy some tanks that are better credit maker) the players are alot and the devs income also (calculating only the sold tanks of 1 type, they did something like 6,000,000 of euro) add to this the premiums accounts (10 euro every month) and the other tanks and you'll have an idea of what they will earn with this game. To be honest, I play it, but if you really want to advance you have to pay, so this is not a true free to play, but a pay to win. Sorry for the offtopic. ;)

EDIT:
sorry, just realized that some page ago was talked about this... I wrote the same things...

Well clearly you haven't played the game very much, as soon as you get to a certain level you become cannon fodder as your gun is not large enough to do damage in which case you either buy a larger tank or spend hours trying to get the money to afford one in game... Couldn't be bothered after that.

Now it all makes sense how some AC can run rings around the same AC. Perhaps I'm not such a crap pilot as I think (who said "you are")..

Custer died because he thought the Indians were a bunch of ignorant savages. So much so, he didn't bother to take his four Gatling guns with him. If he had, the rest would have been history. Sorry to sound like a Geek.

C'est La Vie

That could be your problem...in my system I have another hard drive loaded with Win XP 32bit, Steam and the game...the game does crash using that system.

Rare ability
 

CloD probably is one of the few software programs which is able to behave alike in almost any computer, any OS and any configuration.

Hopefully they are going to fix it soon with the patch.

Salutes Majo.

I think I remember luthier saying they were planning to off-load the tree collision detection onto another core. Bit of a problem for those with older processors but then again, they probably won't run CloD anyway.

Wouldn't a solution to this problem be tree settings as a server parameter? Different servers would support different tree densities and everyone would be on a level playing field then?

"sorry mates, cant play on ATAG, i dont have the pc to run the trees". not reliable.

I guess its still a long way till we have our tree collisions... :sad:

Hats off to you, Tree. You are quite possibly the most passive aggressive human being on the planet with the possible exception of my mother.

As i have seen, there are more than enough (UK)Tree collisions here! :D :D :D

lol, everyone who as doubts about issues here as had to become passive aggressive, speaking your mind only earns you ban points. I'd much rather be straight to the point but its not healthy.

Am I the only one reading irony in trees post with a huge smile?
:grin:
flightsim communities..

I agree toning your posts down to only veiled insults are less likely to get you banned. Well done. :)

Can you please keep on topic guys, no more troll posts, we were discussing ground vehicles, anything other than that please pm me. Many thanks.

i have to say, tree is right. im now pretty optimistic on the series future. cant wait for patch.

but if tree is wrong ( wich would be a first in predictions matter ), boy oh boy...

Well, if you're shooting at a barn door from 1 meters away with a shotgun it's kinda hard to miss.;) Back to topic though, ground vehicles and tanks will be awesome when/if they materialize in the game.

Thats very true about the barn door, but also a myth when its used against myself. Read through my old posts and you will see I was very specific, find any examples of me just disagreeing with anything for the sake of and I will buy you dinner, offer is extended to everyone. :grin::grin: Now lets move on please.

Let's see how many posts we can get up to with continued retorts, but with the addition of a 'let's get back on topic' chaser as a white wash.

ha ha

:)

lol! I was thinking the same...now let's get back on topic!:grin:

I'm happy with the addition of the tank stuff. Like many have said, it's obvious that it was supposed to be part of the game. I doubt the people working on it would have much to do with new content for the flight part anyway, so I doubt there's any resource 'suck' going on with its continued development.

Even if there is, well, I'm still enjoying the game, and the only MAJOR problem I currently have with the game is the crashing, which should be (fingers crossed) solved by the impending patch dealing with the graphics.

I would add that the idea of a tanks vs target / planes vs tanks mission in mulitplayer could be a ton of fun; where the players on the one side are using tanks and anti-air vehicles and have to reach and take out a ground target and the planes have to take out the tanks before they reach the target. Very different experiences. Variety in gameplay is a great thing, on my opinion.

You noticed that too ;)

You are absolutely correct. Some people either misunderstood the original comment (which is fine), or they are trying to sneak in some irony about often-repeated subjects that will end up derailing the thread (which is not fine at all and i'm onto it, just in case) :evil:

Also correct. Something similar happened ages ago with the detailed clouds back in the original IL2: people with higher detail clouds lost sight of contacts in them much easier than people with low detail clouds.

The solution was even simpler, the server admin would just post a message on the forums and a similar one in-game at regular intervals: "please use low detail clouds to ensure you are not at a disadvantage". Of course everyone used low detail clouds. When everyone's hardware caught up, the issue disappeared.

In our case, we can simply do with a minimum enforced level of detail: the server should force low forest density as a minimum (eg, users can still set forest to medium or high if they want a prettier picture, but not turn it off completely and sidestep the common boundary of the playing field in terms of collisions and visibility), just to have some trees around, while the players can be informed via on-screen messages that they should use the server setting and not higher if they want to remain competitive.

Find me one person in this forum who, given a choice, will fly with forest on high if it gives the other guy an edge :-P

In other words, problem is pretty much solved on the player level anyway thanks to competition, and the more people try to paint this as a problem, the more i'll just have to keep reminding them of how such "problems" can be solved with the flick of a switch and have been repeatedly solved in the past, as long as someone is not hung up on making things harder than they really are ;)

If the new graphics engine also manages to ensure that a minimum spec system is able to run with forest set to low, there won't even be a case of "sorry, can't join server XYZ". Server admins want to populate their servers, otherwise they are a waste of rented bandwidth. You think they will run forests on highest detail until the majority of their potential players have the hardware to keep up with it? I'm not so sure.

In fact, history has again shown that server admins do the exact opposite, they cater to their players: back when i used to occasionally fly IL2:1946 on Spits vs 109s there was a guy who had connection problems. The server admins would relax the ping restriction just so that one guy could fly (and good on them for being good sports and doing so), because empty servers are useless servers.


Now, in terms of the recently emerging back and forth...please cut it out both sides and try to control yourselves a bit. I don't want to have to delete 10 pages of off-topic posts again, so do me a favor and stick to discussing the update and not your opinions about other members :grin:

Bring on the game ;)

Well it's better than... O for f?&k sake they cancelled COD... due to lack of funding...

Get over it... money talk and bullsh1t walks....

Of course its better than what you wrote, which I can't repeat because 'disguised' profanities earn you infraction points (well done).....'Get over' what? I'm just articulating what I'd like to see from upcoming patches, like many others. I'm sorry I do not share others apparent zeal for jeeps etc, but as the French say...C'est la Vie, and to each their own. *shrugs* . :)

Yes, money is important for development too, which might be why I bought the most expensive edition at the time (C.E.) to help out. Quid pro quo, though. Not unreasonable to expect a product which works properly in return, which I am boundlessly confident will be the case, and look forward to it. We are all fans. I think its obvious from my post that I'm looking forward to the patch and supporting CoD, one year on and being considerably patient, all told. Kindly 'Get over' yourself, pal.

Cheers.

:grin:

I don't know about you guys, but I think the patient has been in labour far too long. Time to induce the birth pretty damn quick before we all die of asphyxiation from holding our breaths for so long!!

+1

Anybody knows, if there are any plans for the pacific campaign too?

lets not jump to far ahead let them get the battle of Britain sorted so we can all play it properly as a community first

I would presume online vehicle places will be blockable by the server or, as the sim grows in popularity and the number of players is limited then I could imagine a small amount of friction occurring if pilots find their places nicked by tankie types :-)

+1 little steps first in the right direction.

I would say yes and no to that. No dispute Arma is a highly detailed fps first and foremost. As to the player controlable aircraft maybe they can be used as a distraction for offline players from the core part of the game but if used in MP they can add a huge amount to the 'full battlefield' simulation.

When we were doing Arma2 missions in our squad one of the best was working a patrol down through enemy territory and lasing targets for one of us up in a Harrier. It was all on to keep him (and yourself) alive to complete the objective. The fact that the Harrier was 'light' in terms of realism didn't detract from the overall mission. As I see it 1C have the same in mind but the other way round.

That kind of gameplay is completely immersive and if 1C could combine their level of detail in air sims with ground support even if it wasn't as realistic as their aircraft they would have a real winner on their hands .

That's what I'm seeing with the IL-2 series when/if we get tanks/vehicles.

A big, fat +1. Well said!

Did they most of the bugs squashed out of the game?
Agree!

I think you and others missed by point?

Note I never said the vehicals in ARAM could not or do not add to the game!

What I did say is those vehical simulations are very Very VERY dumbed down simulations.

My point being that ARMA's main focus is on first person shooter (FPS) and all the ground, sea, and air vehicals are there only to add to the game as a whole, but are not done to the same level of detail as the FPS aspects of the game

The analogy being 1C is doing the same in CoD, only 1Cs main focus is on flight and all the other aspects will not be done to the same level of detail as the flight aspects

So basically we're getting an additional "tank sim" that's gonna go 20 fps on high-end rigs ?

I'm all in!

i bet that the three series will be "the flying tigers"(bangladesh map), will be in burma, and will be flyable P-40 (different versions), hurricane, P-43:razz: , and jap planes.
in my opinion, i prefear Afrika, italy or more East front:cool:

No basically you didn't read the part about the fps increase

Theres nothing set in stone regarding ground vehicles, there as been no official announcement as to what role they will have in future releases.

We should know more tomorrow, the patch with luck. If not then at least a video showing the new FPS and some of the new patch features.

Im looking forward to new AI routines, new radio commands, a better FM, and of course no flippin crashes.

They will release a video in the coming days showing a new train model they have been working on with the ability to climb in and out of them and also to put in coal ect ect.

I am hoping to hear/see a video on pilot animations :D and hopefully some solid info on the upcoming beta.

The crashes are really getting on my nerves now!

I'm hoping for the patch tomorrow but I bet something unexpected happened juuust when they were gonna upload it to Steam.;)

But ... let's imagine the possibilities for online wars with combined air-ground operations. Manned ground units supported by air cover and attack, etc. etc.

I doubt we will see a patch tomorrow, it would be nice though a year after release to finally get this game running correctly.

Amen to that. Whenever the patch does come I'm expecting a much more stable sim and really hoping they've made some real progress in the AI / Command department. Atleast that would go along way in getting the off line crowd playing.

They were all set to release the patch tomorrow , but some rivets were missing from the Tiger moth so they are looking into fixing it before next weeked.

The launcher issue har pretty much made me drop flying online.... Too often I have spent 10-15 minutes taking off and climbing .. flying towards enemy territory, and just as I spot an enemyplane, the launcher crashes... My time is limited and it really takes patience to start all over again, risking a launcher crash again in the next 30 minutes..

They were making nothing but smarty-pants comments with the potential to inflame or drag the thread off-topic and gain infraction points too.

Oh wait, that's not them, it's you :-P

On a serious note guys, control your temper and if you can't, take a walk out in the sun and calm down. The are new rules about off-topic posting coming soon so that the update threads are about the update content and don't devolve into 40 pages of users fighting out anymore. That means a change of posting habits for some, with the aim of making the threads useful for all of us.

Just a friendly heads-up here, all i'm saying is get in the habit of exercising some self-control over what you post, because under the upcoming rules some will need it to avoid getting automatic bans within the first 10 pages of every Friday update post.

And I thought I was getting a bum deal when I could fly for 30mins only to L-E failure when the enemy AC was in a killing position. Take heart my friend, I and the other 11 members of my squadron have the same problem. One of my American friends spent $600 dollars on a new GPU and he still had L-e problems, Doh!!! Needless to say my squad members are mightily disappointed with CloD, and believe me, some of them have eye wateringly expensive rigs and as a consequence, no longer fly in CloD. I just hope the new update gets them all back into the fold.

Regards

Vonte JS109

As the saying goes:

"A miss is a good as a mile in the right direction"

Let's hope the new update is not a 'miss'!!!

I am ready for the patch. Just upgraded my graphiccard to a monster :)

So BS keep pushing... :cool:

Hi Slipball
You would think Vista 32 bit was the problem that gives Launcher exe problems, but I don't think that is the whole problem. Most of my JS109 squadron buddies have 64 bit "Cray" computers and they still have L-e problems. In-fact, none of them fly CloD because of the problems. Hell, one of them spent $600 upgrading to 64 bit OS and 2Gb GPU and guess what, he still had L-e problems!!! So whilst 32 Bitters may have more of a problem than most, others, regardless of PC spec have their own "gremlins"... I do hope the new update gets the sim working to the declared spec and that we can use the game as intended.

Keep watching your six

Vonte JS109

As I said on another part of this internets, holding features like drivable tanks and bofors guns et al getting basics together would probably earn more new customers from idle squad members all over the globe compared to what many new curious tank-simmers will invest in a flight-sim to drive a tank.

But I've been wrong before.

Basically, not really of valuable information for you, but my experience: I upgraded my system from Vista 32bit with 4GB ram to Vista 64bit with 8GB ram - except for a complete new Windows installation no other changes done.
For me this nearly solved the problem: Before, I most of the times even had launcher crashes before jumping into the plane (in mp). Now, if I always restart COD after every battle, I can count the amount of crashes on one hand - extremely seldom.

In my case, it for sure was a combination of the "upgrade" to 64bit and the additional memory. This sufficiently delays the launcher crash resulting from the memory leak.

But it is not the right time now to make system upgrades - I would wait for the next (beta-)patch.

You can't be serious, surely? Ban those who make off-topic posts? At this rate there'll barely be a forum left, and if there is it'll only be populated with kool-aid drinking fanboys.

This place, the 1c Company and Maddox Games disappoint me more every time I visit. Just a 'friendly heads up' here, but this forum is already half-dead thanks to the excessive moderation - if you make the posting rules any more draconian, I'd be surprised if anyone comes back here at all.

The problem is there is nothing happening with the sim until the various problems get fixed, so nothing to talk about.

Nothing happening? Oh I don't know, there are several servers like ATAG that have a fare amout of people flying every night of the week and more on the weekneds.. I wouldn't call that nothing

Of course i am, every forum in the world has off topic rules.
You should see some other forums and the kind of moderation they have, people get banned simply for posting in the wrong section, and these are not even official forums but usually community maintained ones. Now that is excessive moderation, what we have here is not really.
Our situations is simply a few people not willing to change their habits of "i do whatever i want". Their call, the rules are very simple and will be enforced.

This is an official forum with enough sections for everyone to post to their heart's content. I can tell someone to post in the right section, i can offer to move their posts there, etc etc. It's just that certain people don't want that and are not happy having their own thread, instead they want to have their stand in the spotlight and derail threads that should be community service/public announcement in nature, like this one.

So, these people will get off-topic points because i have other things to do that try to sweet talk them into cooperating and have them ignore me every time.

The rules are simple: update threads are about the update, not trying to prove each other wrong, which is what a lot of people do here. You should see the kind of reported posts we get too: it's more or less the same 2-3 "duelists" who fight it out here, reporting each other's posts.

Like i always say, i don't mind opinions of whatever kind. But they WILL respect the right of any other forum member to be able to come to an update thread and find information about the update, instead of watching the same 2-3 adults verbally assaulting each other week in, week out :-P

This is nobody's private playground, it's a community service platform and quite honestly, the only people who will have a problem adjusting to the new rules are those that can't stomach the fact that they are not more important than the rest. Everybody's freedom ends where the other guy's freedom starts, it's dead simple. That's what we are trying to do here and it's not exactly easy, we make mistakes too like every other human being, but we want to keep going at it, correcting them as we go.

If you have any better ideas, by all means you're welcome to apply for a moderator position and spend your free time managing the forum instead of flying :cool:

You sure visit way different forums than I do as over the years I've never ever heard of or seen anyhting like this you describe.

I'm pretty much with Orpheus on this one.

All that being said though Blackdog it does seem that anyone who is considered a 'whiner' (I prefer the term disgruntled customer) seem to get the bans/infractions whilst the 'defend the dev's at all cost crew' appear to have an easier time. I see everyday in these forums posts that would either cost myself a ban or an infraction getting overlooked, however that maybe just my perception. All that being said I do appreciate the difficult tasks the mods have to undertake its just a shame that there arn't a few disgruntled customers amongst the mods to even things out a little.

Who would you invite into your home? The guy who gushes about your decor and really likes the breed of dog you have and loves your cooking or the guy who continuously tells you that you're doing everything wrong and makes sarcastic remarks about every thing you attempt to do and says I told you so at every possible opportunity?

Customer or not, the forums are their home and we're visiting. We paid for the software on the disc (or in the download), not for carte blanche to act like pricks and then defend it under the so so often misused category of 'constructive' criticism.

I've seen plenty of people on the forums who are able to make their concerns about the game known and offer suggestions in a way that is in no way contrary to the spirit of being a contributing member to the community.

I've also seen plenty of people who THINK this is what they're doing, but they really need to work on their social skills.

And I've also seen people who like to try and make a game of being as snide as they can with their criticism, pushing the boundaries of the moderators to try and drive them into an action that they can later use as more evidence to support their points, points which seem to be entirely counter productive to even being involved with the IL-2 community in the first place.

I'm surprised more strict forum rules weren't put in place months ago.

It's just that too much of a fanboy attitude is also detrimental to the game. If everything was so perfect as some of you continue to say, the devs would have no motivation to fix anything....and us naysayers could start designing our own sim:rolleyes:

Same thing goes for those with tunnel vision who obsess on a missing rivet or wrong ammo load.

It takes all types and everyone should be able to make a statement or opinion without being called names or had their IQ questioned. Remember many are coming to this forum and using english as a second language so it can naturally come off as abrasive or overbearing;)

We don't have to be friends, we are just posting our feelings about a game:grin:

I'm not defending hopeless fanboys either, just trying to point out why there might be a bit more tolerance for them than for the other.

Which would you justify to yourself? An ability to not let overpraise go to your head, or the ability to let insults roll off your back. I know which 'problem' I'd rather deal with.

I couldn't agree more, sun shine and flowers have left this place. Only prison guards and inmates remain.:(

Here's an idea, how about the Dev's release a patch. This might eliminate 47 pages of the " usual suspect " droning on followed by the" teachable moments " regarding manners ,respect for others etc. Better yet sell the franchise to a well funded interested party whose first priority will be to skip BOM. Enough of the slow ,under armed aircraft with a thimbleful of fuel and virtually no ammunition.Flying the same monotonous tactical missions over uninspirng landscape.

[QUOTE=bw_wolverine;395733]Who would you invite into your home? The guy who gushes about your decor and really likes the breed of dog you have and loves your cooking or the guy who continuously tells you that you're doing everything wrong and makes sarcastic remarks about every thing you attempt to do and says I told you so at every possible opportunity?

I wouldn't trust the guy gushing about anything lest he gush all over my wife.

Several?
Unfortunately I'm in Australia when most other buggers are in bed lol. Still, there are a 'couple' of ATAG servers with a good turn up. Mostly around the 30 mark for one ATAG server and 10 on the other. Mostly blokes from Yankie land on, and they're a good fun mob to yarn and fly with.

Tanks and artillery ?

Big problem in IL2 you had to have line of sight between the artillery/ tank... and the target.

There was no trajectory arc possible, just straight line of site shooting and target had to be visible from artillery/tank.

No shooting over hills or landscape at unseen targets.

It would be nice to have real world type targeting, with trajectory arc possible to long range targets.

Real world tanks use trajectory arcs for targeting as well.

Well Orpheus got banned anyway so I guess the rules of the forum are also " Banned if your opinion differs from the mods" I thought the whole point in moving to points base bans was to avoid all this discrimination.

Does anyone else think it would be a good idea to have a Battle Of Moscow thread, then BlackSix could put all the updates in there that are relevant to that game, pictures of Il2's etc have nothing to do with Cliffs Of Dover and may confuse any newcomers. If there are no updates for CLOD then fine but personally I find waiting for Friday only to see updates of a future project that I have no interest in is a little frustrating.

Good idea Tree, I'm all for it too.

lol so minding good manners is only limited to friendship?You curse to every stranger that you meet in your real life days then? Excellent standards, I give you that:rolleyes:

Battle of Moscow addon.

Stand-alone expansion.

I think it's a matter of perception. Some things bother you more and you put them forward in an awkward manner as a result, or overlooking that others say the same thing because they don't share the aggressive tone you would prefer (the "you" is impersonal/general, not you specifically). It's human nature, but that's why we have posting guidelines and rules in the first place, to avoid it becoming too much to handle.

I struggle to find people among the mods saying that everything is fine with the sim.

Phat was the resident hardware testing guy before he became a moderator, he was mighty annoyed when his mega-expensive rigs couldn't run it well (before we got the first round of optimization patches).

Speaking for myself, i'm probably among the people who documented the majority of control logic inconsistencies or flaws in specific aircraft systems, the other people in this group being the dedicated bomber pilots on ATAG like Doc, Keller, Major Boris, jimbop and possibly a few more that i'm forgetting right now.

You know what's the difference between what they do and what people who get infraction points do? The guys above report problems, which means they took time to research, replicate and work-around them and are trying to do something useful that will help others enjoy the sim more.

The other group we're dealing with usually just vents their frustrations. I can't use that to better my game experience and it gets tiresome after a while.

So, the rules are geared not to push the problems under the carpet, but to have a meaningful discussion about them. If something useful comes out of a post/thread, it's surely preferable to another one which complains about the same things but does nothing more than simply complain and leave it at that.

I hope you understand what i'm trying to say and that i'm explaining it well enough.

As for the supporters of the sim, don't worry. Getting dragged in "that kind" of argument will mean they will get their share of infraction points too.

Last clean-up i did on this thread i deleted posts from all kinds of people, "whiners" and "fanboys" alike, including one of my own, because we were all discussing things irrelevant to the update content itself (like we are doing now, but i think it's important to help ease the community into the new system and give everyone a fair chance).


I guess Orpheus got banned because he had points accumulate over time from breaking the rules. I don't know, i didn't ban him, but that's the way it works. If what you said was true, then you, Tree and Furbs wouldn't post here at all because i disagree with your opinions (nothing personal, just examples of people who have a different opinion that mine).

Yet you all do from time to time and when you don't, it's because you decided to collect points. I'm just a clerk behind a desk doing a robot's job, because that how you maintain impartiality when moderating: you don't let your opinion about the person influence your judgement, you just go "rule X broken, here's 5 points for you".

That's the only way it can work with any semblance of being fair.

This whole discussion reminds me of school: when a student would do well in an exam he would go "i passed!", but when he didn't do well he'd say "the teacher flunked me".

Well, our demographic as a hobby means we're mostly adult people here, so i think we can take responsibility for what do. Everyone can act the way they want to act and reap the consequences, positive or negative.

I'm closing this down for a couple of days (it's already unstickied anyway and we have a new update), to let things calm down and the message sink in.