I like the new mission! Spotted a Sunderland homeward bound with props stationary - awsome when you get up close to them. No problems last night regards freezes and crashes, just a few stutters and a very nasty BF that killed me as I was warming my engine and enjoying a drink - but instant ressurection, a brand new ac and my beer glass was still intact so who cares anyway! :grin:

Ahh c'mon Cheese, you were mad really? you can tell us ;-)

We're on Hyperlobby!

Please let us know if you can connect to it.

Thanks :)

Works like a charm Bliss... just checked it

Sweet - Thanks Jamz!

I think I can clear this up.

If you were talking about Wednesday evening it was probably me that typed "nice vulch".

I had landed at Hawkinge and was sitting for a moment when tracer rained down on me from my high left and killed me. Now, vulching is allowed but I look down on it personally so I let my feelings be known. There's no reason why anyone should not vulch if he server allows it, it's just my personal contempt for it.

Having said all that there are two more things to say.

1. It couldn't have been you from the sound of it.
2. As soon as I had typed it I hit Esc but I think I just saw that Minenschusbot or someone had killed me, which I believe is a boat! If so I was not vulched in the usual sense but tracer raining down on me from a German boat at Hawkinge ??!! How can that happen?

I could do with a few tips... abit of help?

i get the message enemy aircraft in sector j12, i know where j12 is but then it says angels 1 point five im guessing this is the altitude but is 1.5 1500 feet or 10500 feet, also i see alot of what looks like to be a bomber formation, quite a few black dots and then when i get there i fly almost through the dots n they disappear?

No problems here with HL.

1. What advantage is there using HL rather than just connecting using the Client option?

2. I take it that I can still use ventrillo with HL (didn't try it as it was very quiet on HL).


TRIK. The ghost formation is a known bug (seems to have evolved too :) - as I flew closer the distant dots suddenly became full size ac (just a few hundred metres away) for a brief second before dssappearing.....

Altitude info is in meters when messaged across the screen and Angels 1.5 is 1500ft but if I have that wrong someone will soon correct me!

Angels 1.5 is 1,500 feet, its thousands of feet times the number of Angels.

The dots are known as Ghosts or Phantoms. Its a known bug which I think is the residue of a formation that was flying when a submission was loaded in (you can run a mission and then load another mission into the existing mission). I think the dots are the positions of the old mission aircraft. Best way to see what it really is is to go to max zoom and look for an aircraft shape. When you are getting nearer the dots they should take on shape. Its a pain but I think the fix is in the pipeline..... sometime.

I spend some time now, trying to figure out the phantom`s origin and what I came to the conclusion, that they are lag caused.

The game seems only to render what is in your sight range. You can easily proof that by the extrenal camera. All objects out of sight are there and you can switch with the camera onto them, but they are not rendered. The moment they come into your viewing distance, they appear.

During escort missions I often notice that the formation of bombers remain at the positions they were the moment they get out of your sight range. So when you return and try to catch up with them, they first appear as phantoms. If you wait a while, they suddenly warp away to the position they actually are and that is often far away and out of sight. This repeats until you PC as interpolated the position and they become real dots.

So I assume all the phatoms are planes, that are actually from former rendered positions extrapolated positions of planes. The calculation of the real place takes some time and the more planes there are, the longer it takes and so is what you see, always lagging behind, what is actually happending, due to this "render-and-calculate-only-what-is-in-sight" method.

It is best seen with the slow ships. Just place enough AI vessels somewhere and start out of viewing distance. They will appear as dot, where you placed them and at some point they will warp to the position they have sailed to in the time and where they are actually.

I hope this gets sorted out, especially because you have no chance to simulate something that gets somewhere close to the real battle. In the missions I made for our training server I used up to 24 He111 in a formation, + the 12 109 Escorts and the 18 Interceptors. I have little phantoms on our sever, but the AI is lagging around like hell, if you get closer and the scene is getting hot. Some AI are even flying backwards... :rolleyes:

Thanks for that SNAFU, has that theory been reported to the devs?

Well, it`s just a theory, I assume the programmers know the real cause.

Hmm I don't think HL is the problem. I connected earlier and it appears there are groups of static aircraft spawning in at certain times (basically loading on top of the same group of planes over and over again) I'm pretty sure you timed out because of the amounts of aircraft. We need to have a way to despawn them every mission or given enough time I think everyone would time out.

I've restarted it and put my mission back up for the time being. I'll talk to spinfx and see what he has to say. I wonder what Monday will bring with regards to MP :D

Just for info, it was very slow to load last night.

:(Hello, sorry for my english language, i'm belgian and speak french

i'm new player on Cliffs (but many years on Il2).
I try your server for the first time. I was lucky, the flak alert me and i found one wellington alone :cool: (however not credited).

I have questions:
1.It's possible too activate chat in fly?
2. How can i refly after landing? I must do quit the server ...:(
3. My real nickname is JV69_Devau or JV69_Teddevau but on game my name is Deutz (My name on IC forum). Can i change and take my nickname?

Thanks. ;)

For Chat hit 'Back Quote' the key immediately below the Esc key (I think thats true for your keyboard, its the one marked `
Type your message and hit Enter. You will need to click back into the game screen to leave the Chat window or all your keypresses will go into the Chat box.

To refly Select an airfield and an aircraft (if there is a choice) and click Create, just as you did the first time.

You can change your Steam profile name. Either open Steam and select Steam... Settings or Right Click on the tray icon and select Settings. Select the FRIENDS Tab. It should show Profile Name as Deutz. I think you change it there.

Server updated to beta :)

Should be up in a couple minutes.

Thank You Bliss ! :)

~S~

It's up now.

109 E-4's / B's and spit IIa's are available.. Could get nutty :D

Hmmm.. my only gripe is that the e-4 doesnt have its right speed implemented or if it has then the Auto Prop should be included..

because of this the Spit2 shouldnt be in the planeset imo..Arcade servers yes but not FR... It can chase the 109 down at any Alt which shouldnt be the case :|

It Turns better, out climbs and can now keep up with so for me its no fun at all flying against them in FR servers..reminds me of the Spit25lb in Il2.

my 2 cents :)

Thanks for aswer...
But i can't join derver: i receve a message "serveur use a other version of game" ??? I think that update are automaticely via steam.

Or that's because the server is on HL ?

Hi Deutz,

The server is running the beta patch.. To join you need to manually download and install the patch. Trust me, you should! The patch is awesome!

Well, I included both just in case FM's were adjusted. But are you sure they weren't? Granted the E4 does not dominate the SpitII, I was in a spitII earlier against an E4 and the only reason I won was because the E4 got into a nasty spin in which I finally caught up and put some hits on him.

But never could I climb with him. Maybe something has changed? Because the 109 pilot was flying it right, and turn climbing to boot, and there was nothing I could do to catch him, up until his mistake.

I think we need to try it a bit longer with the II included. Unless I can't fly for sh!t :) (which I can't), I think something has been tweaked either spitII or 109.

Well this is my thoughts...

Red has 2 fighters Blue has 1

The Blue is and has always been the BnZ side while the red TnB (mostly)

If the red players wants to BnZ and catch the high 109's he takes the hurri and also if he likes flying high...if not then obviously the Spit1/1a..

The FM's have both been tweaked for stability that im sure off but not the Speed/climb/power (AFAIK) apart from the Spit getting the boost cut off corrected..which gives all Spit models a Lil more guts.

The SPit2 has never been included because it has its correct speed and PP unlike its lil brother 1/1a and the 109's

You cannot outrun a Spit2 in a 109, Ive tried countless times in arcade servers...if you couldnt climb with the 109 maybe it was your PP because Co E state ive never outclimbed a Spit2 in a 109, again based on what I perceive to be Average pilots.

Before it was Hurris that you feared up high and Co E (Av pilots) now you have to watch out for both birds..in fact i dont know why anyone would now fly the Hurri with the Spit being available...I sure wouldnt

Mate its your decision and yours alone, im just giving feedback.. the Spit 2 has been left out to keep the balance nice in FR servers like the old 25lb il2 spit

I think now the balance is shifted all Red..like you say though its early days and needs more testing but it was the opinion of me and others on Comms and we were flying both sides

~S~

Hmm,

After flying it longer. The FM's have definitely been touched. It's nothing like it was before. Just take a spin in the non patched version in a spitII and turn. Then do the same in the patch. Unless I'm crazy, I think there's been some drastic changes in FM.

But we'll see after further testing. Trust me, I don't want to see a complete domination for one side.

Mate the FM's have been changed without a doubt, I did say that :) but only stability/stall speeds from what I can see and have tested not Power or PP changes apart from obviously the boost cut out on the spittys...

No AC flap about now at low speeds which IMO was quite bad on the Spit & 109 prior to this Beta.

But apart from those fixes they are the same Aircraft performance wise :). In fact no they're not as you now have a boost cut out which you can ramp throttle upto 110% in the spits

The only thing done to the Boost cut out is the ability to put the gate back and not use it, you could turn it on before the patch. Anybody run speed tests to see if the all the other aircraft (besides the Spit II) have their FM tweaked for greater Speed?

JD
AKA_MattE

+1 it's the same AC engine wise

This patch from what I gather has increased ALL fighter aircraft stall speeds (haven't tested bombers), it's still the E3 but with the ability to fire mineshells and the PP lever is now a switch which makes no difference to the pitch operation.

As I said earlier a good Hurri rotol pilot can keep up with, dive with and give the 109 a bad time but with the Spit2 your outclassed on most levels.

I'm tending to use the 109 like a 190 now and literally dive and run to maintain loads of separation against Mk2's...If the Mk2 has it's correct performance then I 'should' be able to pull away from it if it latches on my 6 level flight or in a dive....both things I'm finding very difficult to do if at all

In reality was SpitII slower than E3 and E4? Anyone has figures?

I hope mineshalls can provide some balance similar to balance of La-5fn and FW-190. 1 vs. 1 Spit2 will win but 4 vs. 4 109E4 will win due to firepower. Need to fly some 4 vs. 4 sorties to check out. Get on Teamspeak for teamwork :)

Number of Spit2 can be limited with a script if it shows that it is still superior. E.g. it is possible to make them available only as a bonus for each 1 or 2 victories.

Well this has been discussed in detail time n time again not just here but in Il2 too so I'm only going on what I have read... Obviously I can't say that it's 100% accurate but can we say that about any info were presented.

If it stays in it stays in, if I think it's out of balance I will fly elsewhere, I'm not here to ruin it for others..if the proof says the performance of everything is Ok then thats fine.

It's just feedback lads

Bliss, please until the FMs are looked at the Spit2 shouldn't be on plane list.

It out classes all the 109s by quite a margin.

I flew a Spit2 last night for the very first time, I shot down 4 109 E4's in less than 10 mins.

Today whilst flying an e4 I saw a spit2 dog fighting below, I dropped on him with at least 700m advantage, Im doing just over 500kmph, I get big hits on the spit, he climbs and I climb with him but he completely out climbed ME and then looped over and shot me down, Im sorry guys but it as to go from the server until it as been remodled. S!

I disagree and the Spit Mk11 should be allowed whilst we await the correct prop for the mk1a. I agree that may be it could be limited to Kills aquired as a bonus for pilots of the Spit Mk1.

Many Bfs are coming in very low, picking targets of opportunity and hot footing out. The Spit Mk1 is acceptable at altitude but very poor low down.

I can't accept that for a BoB mission a player has to pick a Hurricane rather than the RAF's front line fighter of the period.

I only fly the Spit Mk1 regularly and, like many other players, have to maintain altitude and not get sucked into zero altude skirmishes over Hawking. I rack up enough kills in a session but once a Spit Mk1 starts to lose energy you can't do anything other than hand the fight over to a Hurricane which has the legs to chase a BF - plainly wrong.

And its plainly wrong that the SPit2 can be so much more of a fighter than what the 'current' 109 is..

Before there was a balance, you had the choice TnB in a Spit or Chase and fly High in a Hurri..no there is no balance, if you see a spit2 in a 109 you will lose the fight (mostly).. you cant run, you cant turn, you cant dive..

So tell me, when did you as a red pilot have them sorts of OR lack of choices?

You see a spit and turn with it your dead, you run away or climb you live, its always been like that in every ww2 flight sim to date...That option in NOT viable now..

when and IF the 109 gets automated pitch then you may be able to outclimb a spit2 as you will be in the powerband more (hopefully) but its not here yet..

AND

the spit2 has been left out? why?...so now it should be reintroduced because the 109 has faster ammo? because apart from low speed stability issues that ALL fighters have been tweaked on with this patch the 109 did NOT have any performance upgrades..

With what your saying the Spit2 should of been here since the beginning in FR servers then..... It WASNT for a reason

This is about fairness and balance NOT about who has it easier, as it was the Spit1/1a,Hurri Rotol and 109 all had their strengths and weakness's, where is the Spit2's weakness?..you fly the plane you like due to flying style not nationality or anything else...

But that ignores each players relative skill and experience?

Neg G + 303's ...............and I choose RED for nationality.

Whatever, I will fly the Spit on line and enjoy whichever is available....:)

If you like...But lets say a Novice pilots can keep up with out climb and out dive a experienced 109 pilot... is that better? :)

What you mean like what it had in RL? ;-)


Cool.. I dont :cool:

Mate Im not going on about it anymore as it seems only a few of us care enough to post anything which is the minority..

Il still fly in there and just shoot down AI bombers until something else is fixed

~S~

From What I have read the Spit II should be slower than the 109 E by about 10 MPH from sea level to about 10,000 feet, from 10,000 to 17,000 they should be quite close in speed, then from 17,000 to 24,000 the Spitfire should be faster (around 10 MPH at its most), then from 24K and up the 109 takes over again in speed. As for Climb I can only find information stating the Spit II outclimbed the Spit I especially at higher altitudes, but I have not found a good climb comparison between the 109 E and the Spit II.

All in all I would say that Spit II should give a 109 E a run for its money especially between 10K and 20K so what you seem to be experiencing is not too far off historical numbers if you are fighting a Spit II above 10K and below 24K. That being said someone should look at the Speed of the 109 E vs the Spit II on the deck and see if the Spit II is faster in the game, if so I would say this is historically inaccurate. I find the 109 E goes about 10KPH slower than what it should on the deck (475KPH with boost is what I can get), so if the Spit II is going its historical 290MPH on the deck it still slower than the 109 E we have now, but it is not as much of a difference as it should be. I wonder if they are modeling a +12 LBS 100 octane Spit II? If so that would be a handful for a 109 E at any Altitude.

JD
AKA_MattE

It is faster on the deck than the 109 but havent tested it enough up to any given height.. but its that way up to near 10k.. that much i do know

The E-3 & E-4 are the same speed at level flight up to 3k tested, its very hard to get an exact figure but if anything the E-4 is 5-7kph quicker...that may be just the testing conditions OR maybe the weight factor if modeled correctly? (was E4 lighter than E3?)

Climbing wise, from what ive experienced in game flying both the Spit can Climb with the 109 if not better, again only tested this from deck to around 5-6k

Weight 109 date

E-1 5516 lbs Operational Empty 4426 lbs
E-3 5875 lbs Operational Empty 4440 lbs
E-4 5530 lbs Operational Empty 4894 lbs
E-7 6092 lbs Operational Empty 4445 lbs


Some small weight differences between constructors are normal

Thanks for that, that may explain the slight difference I noticed at level optimum flight of around 5-7kph..

.with that much difference though you would expect the difference is speed to be more no?

A Spit II would be over 6000 Lbs. The numbers I quoted in my previous post are for a +9LBS boosted Spit II. I think the FM for the Spit II might be a bit confused.. IMO the Spit I and Hurr I in the game are modeled with the +6 ¼LBS boost in mind and the Spit II is modeled with the + 12LBS Boost and 100 octane fuel. Combine that with some favorable numbers and a (little) less than historical performance in the 109 E and there is a significant gap in the performance of the two planes and how they should be modeled. One thing to keep in mind though, even if these aircraft are modeled correctly the Spit II +12LBS will be a deadly opponent for a 109 E 1, 3, 4.

Completely agree and I wouldn't want it not being used..it will make for alot of good battles but as long as both AC are modelled correctly and as near to what we think to be correct as possible..

I understand the whole RL argument gets a bit stupid as we don't know for sure but on all accounts I've read, watched etc you dont hear stories of the BoB spitty being that much better as is the mk2 against the 109 in game.

Maybe if the 109 had that Lil extra Kph it's supposed to have and a auto prop things would be better matched

Cheese what's the RL top speed for the mk2 n 109e4 then? because even if they give the 109 it's correct documented (?) speed the Spit2 is still over modelled then?..

I haven't done a comparison since the latest patch

WOW! That is flat out hauling, and no where near the speed of the Spit II at 1000 ft. LOL That would be at least 50 MPH faster than RL.

JD
AKA_MattE

The Mark I and Ia are modelled up to 6.25 lbs/sq in. Boost is 6.252 lbs/sq in. Yes, that's an increase of 0.02 lbs/sq in when boost is engaged.

Check the MerlinIII entry in the engine.fmd file:

Supercharger SingleStageSupercharger Efficiency 0.5 LimiterInput Manifold NominalPressure +6.25 lbsqin ContinuousPressure +4.5 lbsqin WEPPressure +6.252 lbsqin NominalAltitude 16250 feet
Valvetrain Generic SlowRunningEfficiency 0.9
FuelPump Pushrod NominalPressure 9 lbsqin at 500 RPM
Carburettor RollsRoyceFloat DiffuserBore 6.1 cm OrificeSlowFast 1.0 sec Heater AutoEngineOil Altimetric DensityRatio Dresser BoostDriven Input +4.5 lbsqin to +6.25 lbsqin Output 1.0 to 1.01

The Spit IIa has +9 lbs/sq in boost.

From the MerlinXII entry:

Supercharger SingleStageSupercharger Efficiency 0.5 LimiterInput Manifold NominalPressure +6.25 lbsqin ContinuousPressure +4.5 lbsqin WEPPressure +9.0 lbsqin NominalAltitude 13500 feet
Valvetrain Generic SlowRunningEfficiency 0.9
FuelPump Pushrod NominalPressure 9 lbsqin at 500 RPM
Carburettor RollsRoyceFloat DiffuserBore 6.1 cm OrificeSlowFast 1.0 sec Heater AutoEngineOil Altimetric DensityRatio Dresser BoostDriven Input +4.5 lbsqin to +6.25 lbsqin Output 1.0 to 1.01

Spit I/Ia is way too slow, Me109 should be faster, and Spit IIa is much too fast. I modded in a +12lbs/sq in boost Spitfire IIa and it's totally insane. I'd like to see stuff like that in the game properly, but only if they sort out the existing planes first.

Here's a little video for you :)

It was pre-beta, so behaviour might have changed since. It gives it another 20-25 mph or so on top of the pedestrian 250 mph the Ia can do normally. It's pretty good, but not too overbearing. One of the main problems though is that it won't overheat as long as the rad is fully open. The rad should work a bit more efficiently at speed if partially closed whereas the opposite seems true, so I'm not sure if they're modelling airflow and overheating correctly.

Basically, you can fly around forever on max boost as long as the rad is open. Pilots were under strict instructions not to overboost for more than 5 mins IRL IIRC due to wear and tear. At any rate, the fully open rad is too efficient IMO.

The boost is engaged at 50 secs in the vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0veG5...layer_embedded

SLIGHTLY OFFTOPIC: There is an entry for reliability in the engine setup for all of the engines:

Reliability Lifetime 100 h FailureProbability 0.0

Be nice if they could do something with that in the future to simulate old/badly maintained engines.

I thought that was the case, but I could not figure out why Cheesehawk was saying the Spit II could do 330-350MPH, I figured they had modeled the 100 Octane fuel and gave it some more on top of that. So all of the RAF aircraft right now a modeled with 87 Octane fuel, that is strange.

Cheesehawk, were you able to get 330-350MPH out of the Spit II before the patch? To be honest I have not installed the patch, I have injured my right eye and I have been told not to stress it (which means no flying) but I could not help myself and took the Spit II out pre patch and could only get 310MPH out of her on the deck.

JD
AKA_MattE

So has the Spit 2 been removed from the server yet?

NO, it's still there. i just installed the patch and got the shock of my life after i took off in my E1, i climbed to about 3000m over the french coast, spiralling up at 250kph, saw a contact well below me, more than 1000m below, and watched in amazement as he spiralled up and got bigger and bigger, closer and closer until he was ontop of me, rather quickly i might add! i cranked up the pitch pushed the nose down and went into a screaming dive with the speedo bouncing at around 700kph indicated, after i got down on the deck and the speed bled back to about 500kph i checked behind me and there was the spit. if i cant outclimb, or out dive them there is nothing left for the 109 at the moment. i might as well go and fly the G-50, it is as pointless!
love the sound and new colours.

Craig

I can verify this, a very similar thing happened to me exept I managed to get big hits with canon on the spits right wing as i dropped on him from 1000m above, I zoomed climbed back up expecting to look behind and see him floundering around below me, instead he was climbing on me fast and got a few minor hits, I rolled and ran but he was right on me and soon shot me down. This plane needs to be put back in the hanger until its either fixed or the 109 is re-modelled.

Nice planeset discussion. Were always my favourite coffeebreak entertainment... :)


May I remind you that that the Hurricane, was the plane, which won the BoB. It was the backstay and workhorse of the RAF in the summer of 1940 and contributed the most to the defeat of the LW. The reliability, easy handling and maintaining, the stability as a gun platform and its rugged design made it to the favourite of many RAF pilots of that time. Not only Bader said that a Spit is nice for flying, but the Hurricane is better for fighting.

I would not recomment Bliss to look for too much balance. You can satisfy some player all the time and you can satisfy all the player for some time - but you cannot satisfy all the player all the time.

Why not put the Spitfire IIa to the NorthWealdAirfield, so you still can use, but have to endure a little longer time to Hawking, where actaully no Spitfire-Squadron were garrisioned in the beginning of the battle.

I expect the numbers of SpitIIa will decrease drastically, if there are only available with a little longer flight time... :cool:

This argument is going to go on and on I think, one thing for sure its getting a lot of attention..

Couple of points as there is too much above to quote:

Mixed planesets?..never! that is just stupidity, this is a Sim not an arcade game, historically correct missions n maps all adds to the immersion factor, fighting a red 109 with a blue 109 doesnt..in any way shape or form

High Alt Flying...Reds take the Hurri Rotol as before

Regardless of facts and figures and documentation getting dismissed or welcomed the Spit2 was not in game before so why is it now? that's my point here...we all agreed something was either porked with the 109 or over modeled in the Spit2 so whats changed?

Stability of allfighters at low speeds
Boost cut out on Spit

No performance upgrades whatsoever afaik or have tested

All Blue flyers... Hmm that is indeed strange and found myself flying said Spit last night just to balance things out...I can only put that down to firepower now..

Same was with BoB server in Il2...109-E with cannon against Spit with 303..everyone flew 109's, as soon as the Mk5 was available with hispano 20's alot more peeps jumped in the Spits.

I don't think alot of people will fly high but Im willing to test and dogfight anytime up high..Atm though I would put a bet the Spit2 will out perform up High and tbh isnt that what it done anyway in RL encounters?

If you merged Co-E up high with a Spit in a 109 youve got a hard time ahead, even in Il2 with like for like skill level but low to Med Alt you at least have the option to run and dive...this cannot happen now people, I dont know what the issue is here with that...anyone flying both planes must see this..

To Bliss ~S~ Dude that spit can climb forever mate with the correct PP...Id put it to the test with you if you like, I can guarantee at a merge across the channel taken off at the same time the SPit2 will be higher, again I didnt think this was ever the case untill later Mk's were introduced..

Having the Auto prop might make things different and balance things accordingly though Im not confident in that, the correct Top Speed would help more with the 109 which brings back the option to dive and get away which has allways been the case in any ww2 game with correct(ish) FM's..

What were saying now is for a 109 pilot you have to behave like a 190 pilot would against the Mk5's etc in IL2...stay very high n fast and not DF in anyway against a Spit2... thats wrong.

Yes the Spit1a seems rusty in game for med to high alt fighting..take the Hurri rotol then

Introduce the Spit2 when we all agree the FM's are where they should be..i know thats a hard call but im pretty sure most of us aggree that the 109's top speed is wrong, the Spit1a is lacking power wether it be fuel or PP...whats wrong with the SPit2?

Some very good points there mate..and I would welcome that idea, id rather have that then what we have now if the Spit2 is staying which by the looks of it, it is :-| this would also encourage higher Alt encounters maybe due to the travelling time for the red pilots?, maybe not.

But didn't the Spit outperform anyway at higher Alt?... again if you come across a spit co-E at Alt you unless your a very good stick would dive and try to gain separation..Pretty sure you wont achieve that in game as it is...I may be wrong though :)

but never the less the above would be a nice Mediocre solution

Guys, very good discussion.

@SNAFU - good idea about the distance for the spitII. So far I've seen a sprinkling of plane types being flown on red even with the spitII available. But I think making them a further flight time is a great idea.

@Jams - trust me, I like balance and don't want any side with a superplane. Nothing is set in stone as far as planesets etc. But I do think we need further testing simply because I haven't really seen much blue teamwork as of yet. (And hardly any high alt fighting). Just bare with me as everything is always a WIP.

I always try and climb simply because I'm not a great pilot and feel safer with height in the bank, it's lonely up there though. I've been shot down at height whilst in a IIa, which is entirely appropriate for my skill level no matter who has the better tools. As someone else wrote earlier (sry, lost the post) there are just so many very skilled pilots that when they meet the outcome is less reliant on skill and more so on the flight model. For a better on line experience I believe we need a balance of players, if it's simply who has the better kite then there's not so much fun for anyone, is there?

~S~

I dont wanna be the one thats moaning all the time fella I really dont, ive got a day off work so Im being a 'Tardy Troll' on here instead :) though hopefully not annoying anyone by doing so, Im discussing and discussing only


Snafu's idea is a good one..it keeps it in game but limits its use somewhat AND introduces higher alt battles (hopefully) while still testing it out...give it a week or so and were all have an idea on its capabilities

Ok.. So here's what I've done based on the feedback thus far.

All AI bombers are 6000m and higher (6000m - 8000m). The spitIIa is still available but you'll have a nice scenic flight getting to the forward bases with it :)

I think this should help things. Especially the low alt furballs. We'll see ;)

Good idea with the AI alt too

Will give it a go tonite! il fly both sides.

This is not quite true, there is a TON of luck involved.

One of the main reasons this is an issue is the nature of the arena, dogfight servers are really set up to Duel, if you will, and having a better performing plane is certainly an asset, but it does not guarantee you anything. People go into a DF server to get into aerial hand to hand combat and when one plane has a noticeable edge compared to the rest it can become quite apparent.

Fly enough combat flight sims and you will have to fly in situations where you are in a poorer performing aircraft, especially if you are going for historical plane sets (I am not saying the CoD Spit II has a historical flight model for a Spit II with 87 octane fuel), and there is great satisfaction when you can get the job done with a plane that is not good as the one you are fighting.

JD
AKA_MattE

Any chance of a runway at Maidstone or at least some rolled grass? Full of hollows and broken props :(

any chance of turning off the clouds as well?

What's wrong with the clouds? They are quite useful at times.

Craig

Lol, there isnt enough of them and you want them gone?

Damn, are the 109s hiding on the clouds as well as the trees :^)

Yes, I can confirm this. I've had the pleasure of two or three furballs with these guys. My guess would be the encounters were usually around 4,000 to 6,000ft up (mine anyway).

An anecdote from last night:

I was flying wingman to another Spit (I'm in a Ia and he's in a Spit IIa as it happened) and we found a 109 at altitude (I'd say at least 9,000 to 10,000ft). The IIa got a few rounds into him by surprise and the 109 dropped like a stone in a dive and proceeded to fly 10ft above the water all the way home.

Even though I had a height advantage, I couldn't catch him and he quickly out paced me. The IIa seemed to do a better job of catching up, but from the looks of it, he was firing from a great distance to try and nick him. He ran out of ammo and returned home.

I dunno. Some nights are amazing, some nights are intensely frustrating. It sucks that my friend still can't get the game running properly on his machine so he doesn't fly with me. This is part of the reason that whenever I find another RAF plane, I form up and fly with them. Usually it means I don't get the kills, but I've actually not been shot down since you guys got me, Cheese ;)

The clouds are great - the fps hit is crap (for us on modest machines)....:grin:

I must admit, the IIa really doesn't lose much when climbing, but only if you have a good amount of speed going into it. I still prefer flying the Ia though, I think, because it's a more enjoyable flight experience. More thought goes into the operation of the plane and I get a sense of accomplishment from that. It's tough, though. Wrestling with speed, heat, enemies, prop rpm, and even mixture if I'm high enough is a lot to handle. And you 109s don't make it any easier!

Well.. Your welcome in the dogfight world. There you see what those guys did achieve for real !!!

Yeah, I don't really mind being the one at a disadvantage. Kinda sets the mood for the Battle of Britain flying for RAF, huh?

Side note, GREAT night on ATAG for me tonight. Had a brilliant flight (in the Ia) in which I:

a) managed to take out a 109 over dover, diving on him from height and forcing him into a low energy manoever that put him into a spin.

b) flew a high sweep to the French coast at 18,000ft and bounced a 109 there in a combination of BnZ and TnB attacks.

c) joined a bomber formation at the french coast and flew return leg escort, engaging one fighter (who either collided or took a lucky hit from a bomber gunner) who lost a wing just as I was laying my finger on the trigger, and then fending off a second 109 over the channel.

I claim two confirmed and one probable out of it. I ended up on fumes for fuel on my RTB Hawkinge. Just as I had put the wheels down, the engine coughed up. St. George was with me on that flight, for sure!

Probably my most successful flight online so far.

I did notice some serious warping on the last 109 I fought. Part of why I call it a probable. It hadn't shown up on the score sheet when I logged out, but I had to quit quite soon after the dogfight occurred. I doubt he would have made it home.

I'm annoyed that people don't balance the teams. I join and it's 10-2 in blue's favour. Why do people still join blue when there's no competition? I'm in a Spit all night because everyone's on blue and I'm a 109 nut and kind of hate the Spit.

I've hardly flown the bloody thing so I got shot down a few too many times and now I know how it feels in a Spit 1a, it sucks it can't climb. Within a few minutes of taking off you get bounced. I even had trouble evading the bounce when I saw it coming. :grin:

Took the 2a out for a laugh merged with a 109, shot him up a bit at 3000m. He went for a dive, I saddled up behind him, put him in the cross hairs and suddenly the screen went black.....

Long story short my computer room's circuitry is somehow linked with the outside lights, my mother-in-law hit the switch and I was sitting in the dark. :(
That Spit is probably still trying to figure out where I went....:grin:

yeah those gunners aren't bad, makes it interesting taking on a flight of bombers singlehanded, i like it!

Craig

I know I'm coming off as a whining git but I don't want to fight AI online. If I want to take on AI bombers then I can do that in single player. Especially as the AI is so frustrating.

Since the patch the gunners are also too good. I attacked two He 115 yesterday out of boredom, each time the gunner took out my flap hydraulics with insane deflection shots before I even got close. The gunners were just like IL2 if not better.

I'd guess the majority of the people on the server are there to fight human opponents, the thing is some are so naive they don't realise to fight opponents you need opponents and you can't all go on the same side.

So I have to be pragmatic and end up being the Spit bitch that gets shot down for their pleasure, as I'd rather do that then fly around the map all day looking for the solitary spitfire with ten other 109's.

sounds good bud.

i don't mind going after the bombers, i find the E-1 works very well against them, flames engines and shreds crew positions very nicely, doesnt blow them into little bite sized chunks but a couple of seconds worth in the right spot sends em down just the same. from time to time a spit or hurri sneaks up and trys to ruin the party and then the fun really begins.
i would love to see the results of the bomber strikes affect the availability of airfields, fuel, and aircraft, when someone manages to incorperate this into mission scripts, and game play it will really put this game on the map as something better than just another flight sim. people will have to protect their bombers, and take out the enemy's. it will really make this the battle of Britain
that it is supposed to be.

Craig

Wolverine, nice read about your sortie in the Mk1a. I had a dreadful first half hour in a spit Mk2 and decided to take a break for half an hour to re-focus.

First encounter (at a daft low altitude) - pulled a high G turn - blacked out - and hit the channel without firing a single burst.

Demoted to newbie status!

It got worse......:(

Chased a BF - lost him in the glare - re-aquired my target - flack going off - pulled the trigger - it was a Spit, it crashed and it was a player!

Demoted to Blind as a Bat with Newbie status.

Took off from Hawking - bounced by a BF just as I lifted off - instant death!

Which is what happens when you are 'Blind as a bat' and flying 'Newbie Mode' given the amount of low flak filling the skies around Hawking.

After the break it was all OK but demoted myself to Hurri or Mk1a Spits only (TigerMoth is bugged......lol).

Hi all, loving the ATAG server - its the only one my squad (RAAF) fly in!

Just one thing though, can you please not have the night rotation? Its too damn tough flying around at night and the server quickly empties out!

Also sorry i haven't read all the discussion but what is the thoughts re ai 109's flying escorts for some of the bombers? Is this doable with the current mission building parameters? It seems a little unrealistic that all the bombers reach the UK unescorted. (i know there are human escorts from time to time but these tend to be very loose).

We always fly RAF planes so we love the 109 escorts when we get them! We often like to escort the wellies over when we can too! Also dont worry about balance, we often fly the Hurri Rotol, prefering this to the Spit Mk2 most of the time. Please do keep the hurries stationed at Lympne though.

think server might need a reset, crashed about 10 minutes back.

Restarted.

No spitIIa's until I can figure out a way to limit them. And when they come back it will be in very small numbers. After being in a 109 for the last couple days, it's badly outclassed in virtually every aspect against the II, and I can understand the frustration for blues.

Question: Did they make the 109's worse? It seems they bleed energy much worse now.

Hmm,

It seems different to me. I fly as much blue as red. Maybe it has to do with the stalls.

Hi Recon,

We used to have AI escorts for the bombers, but found out they used a huge amount of resources to run. But now with the beta patch, it seems the AI spawning has improved 500%. So hopefully after the official release we can put them back in.

And I know what you mean about it getting dark. The majority of the time we run a constant time, but it's nice to occasionally see the sun move :D

If we could ever figure out a way to get a mission to rotate (reset the sun) we'd have a live rotation. So far it's not in the cards though!

Yeah, we're still trying to figure that out :D

Well done for doing this.

Do I am the only one to see weirds things happening now ?

Did this server used to be called Syndicate?

I used to fly full switch IL2 so when I finally am ready to head online this will be my server of choice looks great!

Yes it did. Those interested in IL2COD broke off and created our own group. We are not affiliated with SYN in anyway shape or form. The server(s) and those running them have always remained the same.

We have come along way in a short amount of time, and it's nice to be surrounded by a group individuals that share the same ideals and interests.

We have a new website (forums are up anyways): http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum

Hopefully you'll get on coms and join us one of these days. That's where the fun's at :)

Probably explains why the blues were hot footing away with their fingers up their asses every time they saw a spit Mk2.....:grin:

Of course its 15 to 1 - zip over to Hawking - catch the slow coach Spit MK1's struggling to climb and stuff a few cannons up their ass - same preference different weapon! :grin:

Seriousley, Bliss any chance that the Spit Mk1a could have an additional location somewhere further away from the coast so it can get a bit of altitude without Stukas, Bombers and fighters blowing you to pieces? I got bounced/bombed several times getting off the deck at both Hawking/Manston?

hellas

nice to see that the syndicate server is still alive
you are the pioners in hosting :)
but actualy i have the problem that my performence in dogfights is very bad
in normal flight i have good fps - but when some planes are around me and/or i zoom in on a plane then my fps get near 2-3
still unplayable
i testet it with low config -with the same results
and i had that problem still on other servers (repka)
i mean the problem ist the patch
can someone give me some feedback from his performence
or better
an workaround
i love that patch and i need to play on full onlineserver :)

Lol, well put :)
Do you blame anyone running away from that thing..'EVERYONE' is in agreement that that AC is over modeled yet we still allow it to fly on the servers...Though i dont truly understand why no one is flying it then, is it because they allways fly the bird with the better guns OR do even the red pilots know that its no fun flying the Mk2, no enjoyment getting a kill in that thing kind of attitude?

Mate since this last Beta a lot of people including me get a massive FPS hit when explosions,dust etc is going off directly infront of us..hopefully it will be fixed by the devs in the official patch

This server has defined mission roles. The bombers on both sides are flying at altitude and the mission parameters are to escort or destroy. The Stuka are coming in at lower altitude. If players followed the mission parameters fighter to fighter combat would be at these altitudes.

What was plainly obvious from yesterday with the omission of the Spit mk2 was a high number of BF's skimming across the channel knowing full well that the Spit Mk1a is at disadvantage and slow.

I am not asking for the Mk11a to be included but the Mk1 is very slow untill you get up to around 18000ft. Its slower than a Hurricane and cannot even catch a Stuka as it start to climb and return to base.

The imbalance has been reversed for the two speed prop Spitfire pilots. The 'Blue' solution is - 'fly the Rotol Hurri!' instead and you can join in the furballs at deck level. What a role reversal that is!

The solutions are:

a) Luthier to sort out the respective speeds because that is what this whole discussion is about - engine HP (and 2 speed prop)!

b) more players following the mission goals.


Players are, and can be found, at altitude because the bombers are being decimated on both sides - problem is many stay over their territory. I think some of the fighter bases should be further in from the coast and give those who want to get to altitude a chance of doing that. This would also help my fps which is really low when things are hot around the coastal bases - trying to get off the ground with stuttering single figure fps, flack all around you and planes screaming in every direction is a nightmare.

Nothing wrong with the Rotol Hurri, the fights Low/med/High Alt with the Hurri post patch are alot better and sustained than what we have ingame now

Bases in land more to discourage the vulching accompanied with stronger flak (if poss) and take the Spit2 out...keep the bombers high to help encourage high Alt battles...take the Spit1/1a if you you dont mind Low alt battles...yes it sux as the FM is porked, so is the 109

nothing wrong with the climbing abilities of the Hurri, there was nothing wrong with the battles before this Beta patch..turn with a Spit1/1a you die..meet a Hurri co Alt, youve got a great fight on your hands..

None of this is Rocket science, but i feel it will bring a bit more enjoyment to the server whether your red or blue

The argument to take the Hurricane because its better than the Spit Mk1a is the problem!

The least one should expect is a flight sim that represents the roles that these two fighters had during the BoB - not one that puts the allied ac into a role reversal.

Ok as a temporary fudge but don't have any delusions that every Spit Pilot is happy with the current modelling. They are just as bemused as the BF pilots who aren't happy with the BFs modelling.

Whoarmongers thread (earler) sets out the problem and I completely agree with him.

The Mk2 is dropped on this server - I'm happy to go along with that but we also need to push and argue for Luthier to get these ac sorted out. At the moment we have a role reversal that is not only innacurate for the BoB but would have made every Luftwaffe pilot and Herman Goering extremely happy!

Dude i agree with what your saying completely...But as ive stated before dont direct your lil digs to the 'Blue' pilots... if the tables were turned youd be saying exactly the same so pointing fingers in futile..as ive said before (Dora,Ta..Il2..nuff said)

This is about making the most of what we have and getting good gameplay and having 'fun'... introducing a warped FM in the way of the Spitmk2 is chaging that..anyone can see that, and everyone agrees..even a lot of Red.

Whats fun about shooting someone down in a Mk2?...the only people that would enjoy that is the same sorts of people going online with Mods to get an advantage over the enemy..pointless

So lets not point fingers and start a slag-fest, didnt see these arguments before, everyone was 'trying' to enjoy what we have and aggreeing that certain FM' need work..

im hoping the FM's now are on top of the list..mess them up and you may as well go play a console flight game

And we have the IIa there again. I mean whats the point? Messing it up for german side? Achieved!
I mean guys i am really enjoying your server and i am really happy that there is a Full real server that actually has players on it. But the IIa just ruins it for everyone that wants to play blue. Please consider either DRASTICALLY reduce the amount of available IIas or taking it out at all. Spit Ias and hurricanes against 109 stand for interesting dogfights. IIa against everything else just stands for a slaughterferst in wich the blue player has as much chances as he would have if he would just let the IIa vulch him while still on the ground. No diffrence.

Winger

I am not digging at you guys , we all want to enjoy CloD but, through these threads and debate, put pressure on Luthier and his team to fix the problems. Absolutely no need for headbanging or insults (friendly banter and a bit of humour is fine).

Yep I noticed the Mk2 back and hope there aren't too many of them, may be Bliss will give us numbers or reasons.

I sympathize with you guys having had a try in the BF. I know that a lot of you sympathise with the MK1a guys (which is better at high altitude) but with the wrong prop and short on legs.

It's painfully slow getting up there (if you arent bounced on the way up that is!).......:grin:

Yes, it was getting too dark to take off safely - couldn't see a friggging thing or others taxiing to lift off.

Guys I didn't put the spit back in. Must of been spin. I won't be near a pc today so hopefully someone else will see this and restart it. Or you can post on our forums.

Great to hear. Thanks Bliss!

Winger

~S~

Don't forget that CoD has the ambition to be one step frwrd in combat aircraft simulation.

Man hve to accept that handling the planes is more difficult than before etc.. etc.. I think that's why we hve CEM. Seems many forgot that point

Take some time to refine the way you fly. May be by doing some slight tuning your perfs will be improved ?

This has nothing to do with my abilities as a sim pilot..im no Ace but I know how to fly both Red n Blue AC m8..

Thats not the issue here