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No, I have not tired trackIR though I do someday intend to when I can afford to buy it. However I feel all these comparisons are pointless - I would expect trackIR to work better than a home solution but that doesn't mean I think developers should favour one over the other. Quote:
Best of all I think headtracking would be supported in more games because there would be more people in support of headtracking asking developers to implement. I think i'm going to stop now for good, because even i'm starting to repeat myself. EDIT: WR, i'm not even going to bother responding - same replies from you as the whole way through the thread. "it's a hack, it's a hack, it's a hack" is not an argument. "Prove it's not a hack" is also not an argument as the onus would be for you to prove that it is. Our opinion on this matter differs and it would be pointless for either of us to continue. |
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consensus was reached very early on in the discussion about alternative forms of headtracking. Quote:
that would be nice and hopefully, notwithstanding the way FT went about it, the consensus becomes adopted. |
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Proof it! That's the point: - NP pretends that they "own" HT solution for games, simply as that! Freetracks does UNIQUE calcutations, uses a vast array of cameras, have A LOT of tweak tools and provide a lot of output options! NP dislikes a lot Freetrack becuse it's a BETTER software than all NP does so far. That's because they request FT to remove support for NP hardware. And that's why NP keep the broken record of "reverse engineering", as if nobody can do the math behind provide 6DoF HT with some 2D image as source. Pathetic. Stop the lies, loser! Be a man! :-) |
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http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/geek...x445-68506.jpg http://www.findagrave.com/forums/use...5262-troll.jpg |
@ LoBi...
Prove it? run FT without TIR files being used |
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Read back through the threads... or just ask LoBi.
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Quite clearly FT can run without using TIR files but no developer has yet to accommodate this. Nobody disputes that FT does use TIR files but that is simply because no game developer has incorporated FT native support. |
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Anyway, we've seen Oleg say that joystick axes will be able to control the camera in CoD, which is clearly the most open and sensible solution that any head-tracking device could use. What remains to be seen is whether all 6 axes will be available for use or whether 6DOF will be artificially restricted to a few head-tracking solutions. |
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Yes, that is the bone on contention Quote:
ArmaII, as mentioned before... also mentioned before is FSX through its Simconnect Quote:
@ Grunch Joystick or mouselook? |
And about NewView, that emule TrackIR with POV HAT?
Use NPClient.dll. Is "evil" like FT too? http://www.newview.hruks.com/index_en.php Sokol1 |
does it need TIR files in any manner?
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http://www.hruks.com/projects_en.php lol |
That npclient.dll sure gets around a lot.
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And BIS wasn't in any court with NP lawers and ArmAII and O:A sales are really good! |
And we ended with 81.60% for FreeTrack suport in IL-2:CoD.
Let's see what's happens now... |
The release of COD would be a nice start.
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Does FT have "absolute mode" tracking where you don't have to constantly re-center for drift like the TIR1 did before it was introduced (and implemented support from 1C in a patch) in the TIR2? |
You get a laggy video when you make a video with free version of FRAPS.
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I wouldn't be surprised if TIR has faster and smoother responses than FT (I hope so), however FT gives you a smoothing slider, which allows you to set your preferred compromise between instant response and smooth response. |
FT uses a x4 multiplier for the data captured by a standard 30fps webcam to overcome the lower frame rate. In use I havent really noticed much difference in performance using a 30fps webcam with FT compared to my 120 fps TIR4 kit. A PS3 cam or a Wimote can be used with FT to have 120fps tracking (from what I have read).
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People perceive input lag differently, like frame rates. I see lots of folks who can't consciously tell the difference between 25fps and 60fps but it shows on how slow they tend to react since it takes that extra split second to get their bearings after spinning around. Anyway, not having used FT I wouldn't judge it's performance, I just question certain aspects of performance and precision since it lacks the dedicated hardware advantage of TIR. It may be as some say that the extra cpu load is not significant enough to make enough difference to justify the cost of a TIR. I've never really found much use for a webcam but I may pick one up sometime to try out FT for myself and compare. |
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I had a trackIR4 which died, i tried FT as an alternative with my standard 30 FPS webcam and the trackclipPro that i already had and i did notice it's slower to react than trackIR. I wouldn't mind getting a used PS3 cam with 120FPS if CoD supports alternative head trackers. With a current mid-range PC the CPU load of FT is negligible. I think it's the 30FPS webcams that cause this slight delay, plus my own has a somewhat narrow field of view which further complicates things: i sometimes need to move around in weird angles to compensate for my crappy profiles and then it loses track of the dots at certain points :-P What i'd really like in Freetrack is an interface more like the one used by trackIR for setting up the response curves, as i can't seem to get a good profile for FT no matter what i try. As for the rest, it is a very capable alternative and i guess that using a 120FPS camera would get rid of most of the slight delay between actual and in-game motion. |
why don't you just get the real thing, instead of a sponge that offers less than optimal performance?
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why don't you go to hell and shut your mouth? you are only a spammer |
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With TIR for example, I keep the smoothing fairly low, around 15% because the benefit of a little more precision is negated by the lag it introduces. It's not as noticeable on newer mice because of the insane sampling rates they work at now don't really require it. You may not think you notice it but it definitely affects the way you pivot around in-game, even by milliseconds. You can equate it to playing an online FPS shooter game at 50ms vs 200ms, not as a direct comparison but to illustrate that sub-second lag can have a big impact on your effectiveness. |
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It's just that you have been far more offensive in your responses than WolfRider has, you just don't see that since you're too busy clutching your pearls in indignation. |
Not sure if my settings will suit you BlackdogKt but they may help as a starter. These are for 6DOF which I use with a MS VX1000 30fps lifecam. You will see that I have dumbed down the roll, sideways and zoom axis with varying amounts of deadzone to suit each axis for my preferences. I tried this profile with my TrackIR Pro Clip (vertical LEDs) rather than my Hatclip (Horizontal LEds) - it needed a little bit of tweaking on some of the axis.
http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/t.../ftsetupwp.jpg |
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you could always go practise what you preach... Quote:
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Good to see this thread back on top of the heap where it belongs.:grin:
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Ok this thread seems to have ended up being 99% about software related legal arguments but nobody has, as far as I can tell, actually answered the question as to whether or not Cliffs of Dover will work with freetrack.
Because wow I would be seriously choked if it didn't. |
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Well albx, it seems that your fanatical support for FT has deleted your "be civilized - files".
Hopefully you find, maybe with a group therapy, a way back to normal. |
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Any fanatic is beyond reason!
I think everybody here should appear as if he seriously thinks about his answering posts and doesn't see only black and white. I have missed that impression on quite a few posts here from both sides. Besides that its fun reading. |
At least in this case fanatics have reason, people who resist do not.
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I use FT with a PS3 Eye with no lag. And yes - I tested TiR products. It's the same thing.
Simple as that: use some "webcam" with more than 100FPS and the magic is done, but cheap 30FPS webcams provide good experience too. Waiting for Oleg's response about FreeTrack suport. Any word? |
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The software limitation I mention effects everyone on FT or TIR, it doesn't matter. It comes from the amount of time it takes the computer to "guess" the amount of in-between frames (quantizing) from actual samples. You get better accuracy at the expense of lag (the amount of milliseconds it takes to process and return the information) which gets worse, linearly, with the amount of smoothing. It's important to note that the higher the sampling rate of the camera, the less smoothing you need, much like a mouse. How much is one of these PS3 eyes you mention? And is there any technical specs on it's field of view? |
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Just spent an hour or so with my TIR and, compared to FT with a 30fps web cam, TIR has a faster response time. Never thought about it before or the possible impact on game play. I don't know much about the PS3 eyecam other than it is compatible - wether to get one depends on COD's headtracking API support but, from what I understand, they are reasonably priced so worth getting for my second PC set up and have FT on one and TIR on other.
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CharveL, what people complain here is that TIR is overpriced, so for who can't or don't want afford it there is freetrack, cheap because today almost everybody have a webcam. I want be clear that i don't say one is better than another, just that one is "cheaper" than another. |
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For the always stupid W-R: I used a lot of TiR hardware bought by friends, tested since TiR2 to TiR5. If the "VOTE NO!" crowd don't know a thing about Freetrack work, what's the specs of cameras avaliable for PC use, I don't care. I know how TiR performs. I like TiR performance, but like more "do yourself" Freetrack approach, with equal performance. Simple as that. |
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@ LoBi with equal performance? yes, Lobi, that's because FT uses part of NP software |
LoBiSoMeM, it seems that with CharveL is possible to have a decent conversation, with W_R is impossible... do you see his answers? always the same... hack,hack, performance, hack... it's like he get paid every time he write those words
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you edited after i wrote my answer... WICH PART OF NP'S SOFTWARE DOES FT USE? |
@ albx
you've already done that |
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@ albx...
so, who are you?? |
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I totally agree that, barring any of the legal stuff, FT is a good alternative. I'll reserve any judgements on performance comparisons until I can see for myself but I only bring up the technical aspects out of an interest in finding out or explaining what I do know about TIR, not to tell people what they should or should not use. |
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the LT looks hard
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Funny stuff! |
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that's the most obvious trolling so far. |
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said this, you'll not get any other answer from me, think wathever you want, you think FT is an hack? I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK goodbye |
@ albx...
Cya :) Quote:
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For what it's worth I would like to see CoD support freetrack's interface. It's just another tickbox in a menu which provides more options for people. Simple as that.
Thanks, tjhowse. |
From the English language manual (it's linked on another thread in the CoD sub-forum), Chapter "Flying the Planes - Pilot Controls", page 68, second to last paragraph:
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So, i guess that seals the deal ;) |
Thanks God. Some good news. :cool: Now if you can fix this epilepsy crapola, I go to church next Sunday.;)
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Webcam software? Buh?
I suppose at least this confirms that it's not a TIR-exclusive thing. |
Sounds good - I'll wait until I see the head axes in the controller setup screen before believing!
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from http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...9/m/6751022719
"Jules: Can the six head control axes be assigned to by *any* game controller axis, rather than being limited to TrackIR? Currently you can only control your head with the keyboard, mouse, or a head-tracking device. Improvements to our in-game camera are high on our list, including smooth panning, axis support, “realistic” shaky-cam, etc." hmmm. Sounds like IL-2 to me - 2 DoF for anyone without TIR. Given that the head position axes are axes (!), I'm a bit suspicious about the future "axis support". |
Russian players say that Freetrack is working fine with the game.
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I have a TrackIR 5, but I would like alternatives to be supported as well, competition helps drive technology forward.
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Well there has been a mod to allow 6 DoF support in IL-2 for years. Anyway even if they have to implement it a little later 2 DoF is plenty for normal situations. Just have to set a key to center the gunsight on German planes is all. |
Relief to see they didn't swallow NaturalPoint's interface 'upgrade' offer like Bohemia Interactive and Eagle Dynamics, screwing their customers in process.
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IIRC the Russian version of one of the DCS sims worked fine with FT, but the US/UK etc version didn't. We'll just have to wait and see.
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from one of the russian threads:
"Fritrek works, but are lacking in smooth zooms, although it could not have found yet" and "Joystick mouse emulation software, RRjoy works" |
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LOL - CloD manual, pag. 68:
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Freetrack using the old, unencrypted trackir interface works with CLOD.
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