thanks ill try it looks cool :)

really love this subject is so coooonfusing:

take this picture:

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/camera-diagram1.gif

imagine the pencil was a small sun

actually wouldnt be posible to project the sun in a tiny spot, according the projection rules you see in that picture, for you just can make it more clear or more blurred by changing focal distance but not bigger or smaller in angular size from the lenx apex, according the projection rules you see in the picture it will reverse with identical angular size however focal distance

oh and in the web there are plenty of pictures of the sun i gues its a matter of set a very high shutter speed

edit:

theres a way to see a light shouldnt posibly be more concentrated that its angular size in photography, yet you can project the sun this way with a lens in a tiny spot :

if you unfocus your eyes while looking at the screen led it will grow and blur, it doesnt matter you unfocus by looking closer or farther, the smallest brightest led you can see is in right focus

so as you can see a photographic camera as the eye follows different rules than if its open like a lens concentrating the sun on a paper

edit:

well so when i concentrate light with a lens lights waves as young experiment, following wave projection rules which i gnore

but when light is observed it becomes particles, following the classic projection rules for straight lines

so just when light enters the eye becomes real,no observer nothing at all

just think if in the double slit experiment instead of a measuring device to tell which slit did the photon go trough you could just get a guy looking and telling what slit brights when the photons shot, you could put a transparent photosensible sheet and it should give away two bands

so observer getting photons within the eye, particle, two bands

no observer seeing the light within the eyes, wave many bands

nooo... the subject appears on the film and your focal lines are a misnomer.

What you were attempting to say (original) is the same as the magnifying glass focusing the sun onto and hence burning the paper

oh come on that you dont understand what i say doesnt mean i dont make sense

ill be honest as typical:

what i think is that to focus the sun right with a lens and obtain focal lenght it doesnt need to be the smallest spot but a circle of the right size

but this contradicts this info i got from the net:

In practical terms, and using the example with the magnifying glass mentioned above, the focal length of the magnifying glass would be the distance between the magnifying glass itself and the piece of paper when the image of the sun (the little patch of light) is smallest.

also theres the fact i have certain degree of control over my eye lens due to my training

and however i shape my eye lens its imposible for me to make a big dim light into a spot just make it bigger and blurred than it is but never smaller

edit:

yep when you concentrate light with a magnifying glass, when not directly observed, it behaves as waves, when you want to make out whats out there as particles:

http://www.ctgclean.com/tech-blog/wp...-Concave31.jpg

http://www.olympusmicro.com/primer/l...trofigure2.jpg

as you can see when reality directly observed light follows straight lines projection rules

when not directly observed wave projection rules

Your'e images don't show what your really trying to say Raaid... what you're realy trying to say is "participator" v "observer".

In the "observer", faster than light travel is possible.

You keep on showing point to point refraction... if you focused the sun into a camera (onto film medium) you would end up with burnt stock (and damaged eyesight)... the same as using a magnifying glass to focus the sun's rays onto a piece of paper.

You can't take a full image and try to explain your hypothesis (in a faulty manner) by only using part of that image, when you know ful well the full image will be transfered - it doesn't work that way!

I am dreaming that I'm writing a post in this thread. I will have to come here tomorrow to see if it actually appears in real life too.
If so then my dream is reality, or reality is a dream, and I'm not sure which is worse.
Anyway, fingers crossed that this post doesn't appear.

well i figured out where i went wrong:

if you focus the sun with a magnifying glass onto a piece of paper

the samllest patch of light will be actually quite big and acurate representation of the sun, there it laid my mistake:

yet take this picture:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...onvex_lens.jpg

if you take a photograph of that will all rays appear on the same spot?or youll see each from the place its coming

and what direction does light actually go?

You might be interested in this. The Light-Field camera captures rays of light without focusing them. You focuse the picture after you have taken it, when you look at it.


You can focus the picures at any point you like. Look at the first picture, if you click on the first insect then it will be in focus, but if you click on the second insect it will change focus to that. Hold and drag and you can change perspective!!!
https://www.lytro.com/camera

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-field_camera

these cameras actually don't cost too much, considdering it is new technology.

wow thanks for the link :)

imagine a thermal engine solar powered this way

http://www.newscientist.com/data/ima...9170-2_300.jpg

and the function of the lens oculus of domes as camera obscura to appear to walk on clouds:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...e_Pantheon.jpg

http://vimeo.com/11789304