Cliffs of Dover meets World of Tanks. Nothing wrong in that, only that WOT works superb on my PC and CloD doesn't...............

So much of that could be your system...certainly the game has issues as well, but not all have launcher crash, and so, an assessment of your system should be looked at first. :)

It just gods to show, Luthiers heart really is in arcade, not in simulation. I can't believe how many of you are lapping this stuff up. Five years from now when you are wondering what the hell went wrong, just remember - you were cheering for it.

Why does it become "arcade" when they add human control of tanks and AA guns?

+1, its a great flight of fantasy......but purely a dream, especially considering where we are at present. Blackdog, whilst I enjoy reading your posts enormously usually, calling people 'shallow' for the terrible crime of not being interested in ground combat when they *drum roll.....shock horror* bought a flight sim is quite laughable IMO, and this really should come as no surprise when one thinks about it. No offence of course. :)

Like I said in my previous post, I am not militantly opposed to it, as such, I just don't care. Its fine and dandy as long as I get a finished CoD. I am happy to take their word that this will be the case, and look forward to that day. Really, its quite apparent that it will be left to modders when the SDK come outs to recreate anything even approaching an immersive BoB.....which is what I bought the thing for (crazy, I know lol)....Like a lot of other folks too, obviously.

We do not have any idea whatsoever that 1c plan any kind of grandiose strategic element to this.....Since they apparently cannot even come up with a Chain home radar network and German radar equivalents on the strategic side of things (despite it being talked about by Oleg ages ago....Like many things), which one would think rather important in something which purports to be a simulation of the BoB; why do you think they can come up with something as complex as the presumably dynamic, all inclusive strategic sim elements you are musing on? What happened to crawling before you walk. The possibility of such a thing? Fantastic. My faith in their ability to do so on current evidence, at present? Sadly, negligible.

As for 'the majority will be supportive of this',* to what extensive market research are you alluding, blackdog? Its just that I and many others don't remember being asked a thing lol. :grin: Only a very small number of customers regularly frequent the forums, hardly representative overall. Its safe to assume methinks a majority didn't give a monkeys about tanks and jeeps, and that was probably the last thing on their mind when they bought CoD.....hehe.

It may be that we will get radar at a later date, if so thats great, but my overwhelming impression is that CoD is being very discreetly shoved into a corner (out of sight out of mind) and that doesn't really wash with a lot of people, its just that only a few have the moxy to say it because they will invariably be attacked. :)

I'm not here to argue, its just an opinion, and its fine that others disagree. :) I'm also not a killjoy, if people want to run around in their poxy tanks then let them......Have fun and knock yerselfs out lol. :grin: Just give us correct performance data blue and red, ceilings, decent AI, systems bugs fixed working AA etc and SDK, then I'm happy as larry. That remains to be seen.....but hope springs eternal.

You've got to have a dream, eh? :grin:

Again, for posterity, not opposed to it so long as flight simulation is the overwhelming focus, I'm happy that others like it, I just sadly cannot share in or relate to their boundless joy. :grin:

I also apologise profusely for being so shallow, unimaginative, and narrow minded. :grin: The truth is, I really wanted the ability to deploy into Britain German FPS Para's disguised as Nuns, with explosive chastity belt 'power ups' and the ability to poison the British water supply with 'Holy water' which is actually really a powerful neurotoxin hidden in special 'bonus areas' of the map by fifth columnist Nazi sympathising traitors. The figure head of this organisation being SpitGirls evil twin sister, Helga the Horrid distinguishable by her wooden legs, and merciless, unseeing, glass eyes. Oh my gosh, the possibilities!

This could only be accessed after achieving a 5 tank kill streak however. Its not like I'm not a dreamer! Believe it or not, I have an imagination, too. :grin:

Right, this post is actually in good humour, so theres no need to kick off. :grin: Its just how I see it, that's all. YMMV. Roll on patch, stay positive.

Peace out. :)

They believe that the twenty guys working on the air aspects of the sim have stopped work to watch a guy or two working on the ground aspects.

What's he mean when he says "Black Death" That's what the Germans use to call IL-2s. Is that the new tittle for Battle For Moscow or something?

+1
Says perfectly what a awful lot of people here think.

Orville, do you mind if i post this somewhere else?

Course not mate, go right ahead. :)

Stop with the common sense and logic, Chivas. You might hurt some fragile minds here.

Actually Black Death would be a great name for a Russian Theater addon. Its good news that they are having to completely redo the Black Death benchmark track. The first one had so many bugs it was hard to watch. I

Its almost a waste of time posting here, as very little common sense, is shown. Its like they can't see the forest for the trees. In an update let say the developer doesn't mention any changes to the FM and you read a post. " What about the FM, they didn't say anything about the FM, OMG they must have stopped working on the FM, WTF????

You probably just triggered a 20 page rant about tree collisions.

Where is it Chivas?

I really appreciate all the developers are trying to do. If they can pull all this off on top of creating a world class combat flight sim that works, has great sound, FM, AI, DM, stability, etc, etc, etc...more power to them. I love everything about WWII fighters. Tanks, trucks, ships, etc are all nice but PLEASE don't give us a long list of other game elements that almost work before you fix the basics.

Thanks again Luthier and company for your efforts.

rgrdgr my friend, good 2 c u again

~S~

Ground vehicles
 

Personally I don't mind tanks or other ground vehicles, they can give the ground wars another dimension inside the world of Il2. I like the mannable AAA/FLAK in combination with the flatbed wagons or field deployment (great for missions). For me ClOD and the runner up are in the first place about combat flying.

As for now I still dislike the way Clod runs, the ai and comms aren't the way it should be, yes work in progress.. I know. Get rid of the crippled planes in the multiplayer games, the way you sign up for the game still feels less as in 1946.

For the optimalization. After buying a SSD and more RAM, CloD runs a bit better, still no joy with 4890 in crossfire, I won't invest in a new graphic card with 2Gb or more right now because of the € and with other games it works and shows it's power potential. CloD itself has a huge potential, the dynamic weather and the scripting are what we could expect, it will hit my system when it's operational though.

Just keep working on it.... it takes time to make perfect.

Those of us who enjoy SEOW with the old Il-2 know why this update is awesome. :) I can understand why it doesn't appeal to the lovers of mindless Quake style dogfights.
Just make the option "Follow me" for the commander tank. ;)

Great news B6...BIG THUMBS UP!!!!

I don't reckon many would really think that. However some may consider that those one or two guys are sucking up wages and development costs that might have been spent on people who can further the title as a flight simulator.

Look, if playing crazy taxis in a bunch of tanks that handle like something from the Medal of Honour franchise is your idea of a cutting edge flight simulator, good on you. For myself I do not think it is a mature decision, especially at this stage of the titles development.

Who said they're not fixing the sim anymore? Also, it's good that you know what you have bought, imagine coming home with a case of beer instead of that carton of milk that the missus ordered on the phone, quite a pickle.;)

And we really don't know how old these videos are. They could've been created a year ago ... or the code was in there all the time, and now they merely enabled it to shoot the videos.

Welcome to the forums!

Different people are working on planes and on ground units. So, do not worry, aircraft development is not slowed down by developing ground war. They keep it simple and arcadish. It will be fun to do some dirty work on the ground while waiting for aircraft repair or replacement in an online war. Have a look at Aces High II tank gameplay videos. That is a flight sim too.

AH..flown/drove that one.. massive assault on taking an airfield...Bring in the Goons!

Large formations of high altitude bombers escorted by fighters and guided by pathfinders..... searchlights with AAA..yummie

But that assumes they have one to harm.. ;)

It is funny really, in a strange way..

How upset some are getting over things that have not even happened yet..

Which is not to say they could not happen!

Only funny that they are truly upset in the here and now about something that might happen in the future..

I understand those who raise concerns about what might happen.. I am concerned too about some aspects..

But get upset about it? Come on!

Oh well

Seeing this does shed some light on all those people out there who get all worked up about the Nostradumbarse predictions and/or the Mayan calendar stuff..

In that the same logic (or lack there of) seems to be applied there too

Frigging awesome!

Thank you for the timely update, nice week end and waiting now to see the deliverables (beta patch)!

~S~

Programming memory leak?

B6, give me his home address. I need to talk to this guy. :)

So much negative thinking here that I get all tired sometimes...

Last week I listened to a seminar by Kjell Enehager, a Swedish golf/athlete trainer that has gone professional management seminar speaker. He had an interesting story about when he trained a Swedish tennis player who never really made it (he has trained a lot of more famous golfers after that). He was playing Ivan Lendl who was a junior then at the same level in a training game. At the end of the training Ivan always liked to do ten serves each... Ivan did one ace in his ten serves and the Swedish player that I dont even remember the name of did nine aces and only missed one serve. After the game Kjell talked to them both about the training and their thoughts. The Swedish guy said he was thinking about what he did wrong with that one missed serve. Lendl at the other hand did not think about the nine missed serves but what he did right with the only serve he did put in the corner... A few years later he was number one in the world, and the Swedish guy that I don't remember the name of had quit playing....

Long way of saying that maybe the glass could be half full after all? Lets give these guys that we obvoiusly beleive in (we are here after all) some slack...

/mazex

The ground vehicles are fine with me, except I don't know how we apply them in the Battle of Britain.

Where were there ground battles?

Who cares about land vehicles. This is all such a waste of time.

Priority's!

They are probably intended for the BoM. But when the sequel comes out we can use them to create "what if" scenarios in CloD. Lots of people like that kind of thing.

True That!

Take IL-2 46 for example.. Lot's of what if content there

A recap for those asking about the FM.
 

QUOTE FROM FRIDAY 17 UPDATE from Black Six
We haven’t talked about our flight model for some time. We haven’t been idle however. Not only are we fine-tuning plane performance, we’re making some very deep changes to the underlying core of our physics code.
We are completely rewriting collision and landing gear, while also making other elements of the flight model more complete and precise. Control surface behavior and reaction has been significantly improved. Refined transverse velocity calculations in relation to aircraft performance. Made it possible to calculate different transverse velocity at different points along the wing. Improved pylon and loadout FM calculations. Added many new features to allow FM calculation needed in future sequels. Many of these changes have also entailed completely rewriting existing code.
And this is by no means a complete list!
QUOTE FROM FRIDAY 26 UPDATE from Black Six
Most of us are busy preparing the beta version of the upcoming patch. We did make a whole lot of FPS benchmarking, and the great news is, it’s all in line with the previously announced numbers. The performance increase is very significant.

I gues at the moment the preperation for the Beta patch would include a write up of bug fixes,FM changes & GUI if any .It appears from what Black Six has said that a lot of the team are presently involved in this .

Maybe it is time for another poorly worded poll?

But seriosly..

Based on this thread alone it is clear that alot of people care about land vehicles.. Only time will tell if it is a good decision. All we know for sure in the here and now is that flight sims by themselfs don't have a good return on investment..

Therefore if you want to make a flight sim.. And get people to invest in it in this BF3 Xbox majority world.. You will need to find a way to supliment the sale by opening it up to more than flight simmers.. And if adding manable AAA and ground vehicals in a flight sims does that.. Than it is a win win for flight simmers imho.. Just more targets!

Yeah, intriguing possibilities like 'what if' Britain actually had a half decently represented Royal Navy in the game, and 'Kanalkampf' could be accurately represented, etc. (jk, but true. :) )

@Chivas, no....not everyone thinks that all work is stopped on the flight sim aspects at all mate, as Feathered pointed out, and I agree with him.

@Bliss and Ace, chaps please leave it out with the petty name calling, there's no need for it and its school yard stuff really. That's what I was referring to earlier, and it happens like clock work. It probably intimidates some too (not I....lol, just don't see the point in tit for tat really) and stops them posting what they really think because they'll think its not worth the hassle. Disappointing, really. We are all on the same side as regards the flight sim aspect, we are all fans and want the franchise to do well. Just different views.

Easiest thing in the world to throw insults about when others hold a view different to your own. Its pretty weak to be honest.

Thats all, I'll tune in next week and look forward to the patch.

Cheers. :)

For goodness sake, give over harping on about priorities. THEY ARE FIXING THE SIM AS A PRIORITY - we all know that.

We've already had the excellent SOUND REWRITE and in a few days we'll also see the much awaited GRAPHICS REWRITE with hopefully a big FPS improvement. Last week we heard about the progress of the GROUND PHYSICS REWRITE, COLLISION MODEL REWRITE and FLIGHT MODEL IMPROVEMENTS including the modeling of airflow over different sections of wing.

Now it's real difficult to show a lot of that stuff in picture or video form and Luthier probably wants to keep the graphics upgrade under wraps due to the colour whine fest we had last time.

BUT, the community demands something interesting to see every Friday. Mmmmm, what can we give them? Ahh, yes, we've got some tasty video of the player controlled ground models - let's show 'em that.

That is all that has happened. No change in priorities, no change in the direction of the product, no abandonment of the flight sim element. Just showing us a cool feature that MAY be introduced in some form one day and has actually been in the pipeline for years. Remember the old name "Storm of War"? The virtual battlefield was part of the Oleg vision from the start.

Now, please stop whining and start treating this as the cool extra feature it is, and a very impressive one at that. If we're not careful we'll go straight back to no updates on a Friday.

Train whistle
 

B6 : May I say that the whistle on the train sounds very American.
British train whistles tend to be a single tone and higher. None of this vulgar, colonial multitone showiness ;)

56RAF_phoenix

True, there is a lot of peoples doing great land / air battles already in CoD, such as the Operation Sealion missions by H which is British vs German forces in an invasion of Britain scenario. I have all these missions, and love all the tank busting, train busting, port smashing, bridge busting, sandbag busting >:)

I would love to drive around in these missions in a tank just for the fun of playing from a different angle...trying to get around an AT gun and maybe then jump into an Erpro 210 Zerstorers to take it out for me....then back into the tank so I can get through...sort of thing.

PS

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ml#Post3482704

September 26, S-tag +4, 1230 hrs GMT

Elements of the 10th Panzer and Liebstandarte SS Adolf Hitler have fought their way out of the Denton Pocket. Rather than retreating South toward the main German force at Folkestone, they have taken British forces by surprise and escaped north toward Canterbury. The 1st and 2nd Canadian Divisions were in the process of reinforcing their southern front, and German armour was able to drive through a gap in British lines at Gorsely Wood. Panzer IIs and IIIs of the 10th Panzer and Stugs of the Leibstandarte SSAH, backed by motorised troops of the XXXXI Army Corps, have radioed to Berlin that they have captured the Canterbury train station and are pushing on the center of the city. They are however, totally cut off from German supply lines. In an act of bluff and bravado, Adolf Hitler broadcasts to the British people, "Germany wants peace with Britain," he thunders, "But your leaders have brought war to the very streets of English villages and cities, and the German flag now flies from the spires of Canterbury Cathedral. London is next! The nations of Britain and Germany are not natural enemies. I call on Britain to surrender and avoid an inevitable and terrible fate!" After a conference with Churchill, Dowding orders all remaining 11 Group squadrons withdrawn north to preserve them for the defence of London. Churchill convenes an emergency session of the War Cabinet.

Erpro 210 over Canterbury
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/w...rbury00013.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/w...rbury00017.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/w...rbury00026.jpg

Chieftains and AT guns at the train station are overwhelmed
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/w...rbury00010.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/w...rbury00011.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/w...rbury00012.jpg

64 Squadron fights back
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/w...rbury00027.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/w...rbury00023.jpg

10th Panzer closes on the city center
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/w...rbury00004.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/w...rbury00008.jpg

Don't get your hopes up, but I'm sure your theory is very much correct.
On the other hand, most often only one opinion is allowed here.

That's very true Orville but I strongly believe that the ranks of the Royal Navy will be filled quite quickly once the SDK is released. I know it isn't ideal having to rely on community work to fill the gaps but in reality, there is a shed load of work required to model these ships in all their detail and the devs could never devote precious resources to that - imagine the outcry then.....I bought a flight sim and you give me the Atlantic Fleet!

In a way this would be better as in the long run it is the only way we're going to see some significant ships modeled due to the rights issues over in the US. Probably not a Royal Navy issue but an issue non the less.

I really do think this thing will start snowballing once the stability and FPS issues are sorted out and the SDK released. The future looks very bright in my eyes.

Let's see where the patch takes us.

Player controllable tanks - will this mean we will get a "Panzer-Mädchen" campaign, please?

You save a cute blonde girl in your 38(t) Praga from the evil claws of the eengleesh cruiser tank hordes.

The possibilities are endless ...

There was more then enough talk of the "glass half empty" - "doom'n'gloom" party already.

Imo, of course.

I liked what I saw. Maybe the tank boys will will rolling along the ground the the fly boys will be fighting over head.

Very good story, I will recycle it ... thank you.

This feature probably won't be seen for some time, but it doesn't really matter when its released as even the COD map has areas on the map that had some considerable land battles. I'm sure after the SDK is released and people have modeled a number of ships, the developers and modders have added further aircraft, etc etc, someone will build a very complex land, sea, and air campaign set somewhere around Normandy maybe in June of 1944.

They showed countless screens of different tanks, trucks, cars, differant uniforms etc with high detail years ago. I remember them even showing a tank with its antenna swaying back and forth while on the move....years ago.


Now people whine because the finally got the answer as to why they are so detailed. Never mind that many figured that one out, wait for it....... years ago. (4-5 years actually)

Aye, fair point Sutts.....there are some talented modders out there who can get it done, and thats the hope, so all is not lost. It will happen eventually, be sure.

Cheers.

IMHO this seems way to important to many of you and that goes for both sides of the argument. Thanks for the update..............:shock:

Judging by many of the comments here I really think they do. Taking part in a tank battle once is awhile would be ok, but I would primarily enjoy taking out those tanks with my Jabo. Having controllable land assets is alot more realistic and immersive than not having them.

This was part of Oleg"s plan from the beginning, developing a game engine capable of providing Land, Sea, and Air combat, capable of CGI movies, future proofing the game engine by making it modular so it was easier to code in new tech. This will generate new sources of income allowing the developer it stay financially solvent to continue providing new and exciting air combat features for the foreseeable future. Yes its a tall order and one of the reasons the new game engine has taken so long to develop. If it succeeds every combat flight sim fan will benefit.

There u go again, explaining their plan in a way small children would understand.

To bad there isn't any small children here. :)

I seem to remember an exciting scenario that Feathered_IV once painted for us. It involved a recon flight that was radioing a position for a big gun to take out. I'm a bit surprised on his feelings of ground unit possibilities here.:(

Battle Of France!!

For some reason the most popular server online never has one going. Spit VS 109s does and I don't see why all of you chuckle heads don't migrate once and a while!!!

good job! 2 more weeks for sure

Again it sounds all amazing and fantastic, but before shooting for the stars then need to take the training wheels off the pushbike.

Get CLOD fixed and i will be as happy anyone around here with what ever they add in.

Somebody said something about WOT, i checked the numbers and they had 77,000 people playing at 7pm, and that was just the euro server.
So add in the Russian and US servers and it prob topped around 200,000 people playing WOT tonight...just sayin.

Very nice but you guys are losing the real focus. CloD is a flight sim and most of the features are not terminated. FM/DM is not good many things in ACs has no reason of being. Radiator closed/open makes any difference, hand pump is not usefull for nothing etc.. :mad:.. I payed for this game and want it fully usefull as a flight SIM. It was intended as a flight sim. Ok after you develop the ACs well no problem in adding new things. To me you just released to capitalize over an unfinished thing...

:)
Those are some impressive numbers! had no idea.

Yeah 200,000 idiots, sucked into playing a game for free and then paying for it every time they decide to play once past a certain level.... I luckily realized this when I got to a certain stage and realized JUST how much money would be required to continue playing....

Good game no, fun for a bit... but just a big cash cow for the developers.

Now imagine that only 1/100th of those tankers in there are looking for a tank sim that is a little more realistic.. As in having a real internal (cockpit) pov and gunsites to boot.. So many targets.. So many flight sim development dollars for sequals!

there is no need for snide remarks directed at those that welcome seeing these new elements

in the last 5 or 7 yrs extensive discussion took place in the main il2 forums, and between oleg and his supporters on what main elements the sim should expand into for broader gameplay in the next series, and integrated battlefield management is one of these (this will NOT include 1e person shooter role or infantry, but would include some limited vehicle and some ship control (other new elements wil be, 24/7 dynamic campaighn server, extensive ground AI routines of both civilian and military elements (oleg even showed london busses running on a timetable on preset circuits for ex), and several others

large parts of these elements have already been built into the sim in previous yrs and now some of these new elements need (relatively) little time to bring to completion, and work on them IS NOT DONE BY THE SAME PEOPLE that work on recoding the new gfx engine or are fixing flight models.

so why complain at great new features being added ? BoM being a land based conflict with extensive ground elements (rather then BoB being mainly aerial) is the logical next project to start adding them in, hence they are now broadening the content and will hopefullly attract a new fanbase rom the tank sim crowd. oleg always stipulated the SoW/il2 series would remain a flightsim primarely and that will be its main focus and orientation, the other elements will just complement it (and wont be modeled to the same degree of detail)

rejoice, for its all good !!

sorry, but i think that who talked about a "tank sim" is wrong: we are all sim fans and think if we drive or fly something it MUST be realistic, otherwise is boring.. 90% people out this forum doesn`t think so and enjoys arcades with consoles. So what about an iperrealistic flight sim completed by a dynamic, arcadish gameplay that makes great possibilities of fun for simmers and gamers at the same time? No one is moving by sim accuracy to arcade style game.. Just blending two things that can walks toghether in a great picture where you will be able to get airborne with full starting procedures and somone will be able to shot you down controlling his AAA whit his joypad.. More players=more money=more great sims. Good luck guys and keep up your great work!

I thought the flak guns on the trains was the coolest part of the video. That could be fun mounting a couple flak guns on a train with a few friends online while hauling precious cargo to another airfield or city...BUT there has to be a point to it all to make me interested. Is that train resupplying something that actually will help my side win?

Might aswell sell my joystick

A live ground battlefield :razz:, amazing video :)

Live and dynamic fronts ... real combat air support ... the possibilities in mission building have no limits :grin:

I can see missions like air support in A on a tank front-line while in B there a supply´s convoy attack/defend :grin:

Amazing possibilities :shock:

Now, release the patch in the next week and we´ll live a dream :mrgreen:

Good difficulty balance would be a must

Remember the beginning of the movie. Yes we've got a big chunk of France to squable over. This is where your tanks half tracks trucks and cars come into play big time. Lots of people tend to forget France. Maybe because us bad guys won it?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUv52...ature=youtu.be

good questions ! and i really hope luthier and black six can understand its importance

adding some specific small gameplay features to link several of those new elements together would significantly imcrease gameplay (and attract a whole new fan group who might not be primarely interested in air quake flying alone, but would be happy to take part in some tank battles or direct ground movement of frontlines for ex. some of the new features we need to have for this are for ex:
- appropriate AI control over groups of tanks to direct them to take a particular objective, and how to react when encountering an enemy (avoid, engage, retreat etc)
- being able to move (walk) from your crash landed aircraft (or parachute landing point) to a nearby road
- being able to "enter" a civilian or military vehicle you walk up to and take control of it (like you can do with different gunner positions in aircraft already)
- being able to drive a civilian vehicle (or as pasenger) on the road, and make it back to the nearby friendly airbase
- when landing at a friendly airbase, be able to walk to the operations hut for debriefing or briefing, and then walk (drive) to a replacement plane of your choosing

with some limitations, the basics for those features are already there, they just need to be linked from the player point of view :)

Seems like you might get more for it...by swapping it for a steering wheel.
On a serious note...I feel your pain. Salute Sir

This update is really disappointing and has nothing to do with the IL2 franchise. If you are going to be creating a new game at least make a new folder and don't try to connect it to Cliffs of Dover.

Next you will be showing us drivable trains and how we can unload freight at a station:confused:

So many flight sim marketing and making experts in this forum ready to give 1C advice on what they are doing wrong..

Yet so few new flight sims on the shelf to choose from..

Strange aint it?

hey! Don't give them ideas . The might delay everything again to include this in the never ending patch.

Hehehe
 

Hehehe, as the matter of fact I got a steering wheel :p I play a lot of iRacing. Maybe they will turn this thing into a car simulator instead. We can have races during battle of britain instead? I can understand 1C is a bit tired of planes now and need something else to fiddle with for a while

that shows limited understanding of the multiple aspects that relate to ww2 combat flightsim aviation. there already is much more to this then your limited horizon perspective indicates. and it shows you have not been following the last 10 yrs of discussion with oleg on how this combat flightsim series can evolve and expand.

for ex we have already seen during devellopment how AA flak guns are integrated with:
- using different munition types, and munition boxed next to that specific flak gun being depleted one shell at a time ( of the exact type of munition used)
- when search lights near a AA unit are damaged or put out of action, the night time effectiveness of that flak unit decreases by 80% (untill over XYZ time the lights are repaired)
- AA units are controled by a local command unit which is integrated with radar/spotting functions, when that element is damaged/destroyed the whole AA unit becomes less effective.

you really going to complain about that type of realism ?

but wait there is more !

oleg already showed during devellopment how individual boxes/containers could be moved or damaged, for ex those loaded on the back of trucks, so yes the same would be theoretically possible with trains loaded with cargo :)

the hope is, as some other posters have already mentioned, that the cargo, munitions and fuel mainly, being moved on trucks and by rail are integrated in the dynamic campaign engine to result in specific supplies of munition and fuel being available at specific airfields (ex if the earlier flak gun runs out of a particular munition type, it cant use them. or if no fuell gets to an airbase that had its fuel supplies blown up then there is no fuel available there till new supplies arrive)

eg, if for ex the german element keeps heavely damaging the most forward allied airbases (taking each time a number of days/hrs to repair depending on extent of damage), and at the same time the germans target the supply lines, then in effect you could shut down these forward allied airbases, and requiring the allied planes to wast more time by having to fly longer to more rear located airbases. this was already present (in a limited way) in the 12 year old flightsim "mig alley", for oleg and luthier to expand the sim in that direction (in a more detailed and visual way) is a very logical progression.

see how a few of these elements (which you dont like it seems) are actually very important for an expanded combat flightsim SIMULATOR ?

:grin:
+1

I'm curious as to how many of you guys have ever played WWII online(now known as Battle Ground Europe)? If you have, then you would understand what its like to be in a "Living Battlefield" Sure these guys will get some WOT players over here, but that's not who they are going after.. Its the Battleground Europe players. The feeling of being in a large land and air battle is as good as it gets. The problem with Battle Ground Europe is the extremely out dated graphics engine, and the enormous view distance problem.Creating something similar to that game with the detail and physics model of CLOD will pull a lot of people from that game.
Now granted CLOD has a long way to go before its on the level of BGE... but when the pieces of the puzzle start falling into place it will pick up momentum, and will be amazing.
If you don't like the tanks... Hey.. Don't play them.. simple as that..Don't be fooled.. this game,when it was envisioned, was never planned to be just a "Flight Sim" Oleg wanted it to be something "Bigger".
I'm hoping the infantry element gets sorted out though, It really needs to be worked in somehow.
I'm really glad to hear that they added momentum to the damaged units..
Outstanding work DEV team! and thanks for the updates!8-)

Blue Skys!

only partially correct

your forgetting that these elements, like ground vehicle control, some tank train and ship control (torpedo boats were specifically mentioned by oleg before in this context) are already largely in the game, eg most programing and design for them is already done (and we have seen this documented and discussed during devellopment).

olegs projects since the original il2 were always produce in a modular fashion where diffent elements were worked on seperatly but in paralel, to now not put in the last 10% of effort to start including them in the game WOULD be a waste !

save your energy to make a specific and factual list of the main errors and omissions that need to be corrected for the flightsim part, and start waving that about once the new long awaited grafix engine patch is released, i'll come and join you when you do. but to argue to now remove some of these long awaited new elements in the belief it will accelerate the other bug fixing is mistaken

I'm sure the complainers are breaking open their piggy banks for start-up money in the morning.

Exactly what Biggs just wrote... I'm thinking SEOW on steroids.

I'm actually really excited by this development.

There's a lot of frustration with CloD out there, justified frustration, but if the new graphics engine re-work is solid, we know that the DM is excellent (and its complexity can be applied to all objects), and the FM is good too (the bones are good, debates center mostly on tweaking) so there's a good opportunity for 1C to create a unified combat WORLD.

This opens up Marketing opportunities to sell tank/ armored games that plug into this world.

I think some are missing the bigger picture by arguing that they don't want to drive tanks in a flight sim.

With respect to infantry, from what we've seen so far the main limit would appear to be the hardware requirements. The core engine seems capable of doing it. That's my read of B6's comments anyway.
If IL2 c

Well folks...all I know is that I spent my money on a Battle of Britain Air War Scenario....based upon history.

Respectfully, I'm not flying (until the next patch, hopefully) and I am not interested in driving.

All, I'm interested in is "realism" and "content" as it pertains to the "air war" at that time.

Anything else in this "IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Forum" is pollution to me.

BOM ought to have it's own area here at the 1C Company Forums...I believe that BOM deserves it.

No sarcasm meant or intended. None, whatsoever.

Well I spent my money on knowing what this sim will turn into based on all the WIP updates I've seen for years, fully aware that this stuff will all take time to get polished and working correctly, just as the decade old IL2 did. Thankfully, I actually know what WIP means.

Sorry if you can't be patient or have a little faith. Perhaps go back and check some of the updates of this game, then go back and look at the updates from old IL2 (bugfixes etc.) and see just how close they are to each other out of the gate. If you think IL2COD is over the instant BoM is released then I don't think you know much about this community or the prior history of the IL2 series.

WOW, WOW and WOW!!!!!
 

The WOW factor in this demo is huge!!

Been waiting for a total combat sim with this level of realism for years. Can't wait for the day when I have to make a forced, gear up landing two miles from the air field, egress from my cockpit and jump into a truck to be taken back to the airfield.....only to be checked for injuries by some pretty nurse at the dispensery!

It's all worth waiting for!! Even if there is no pretty nurse.

And the FPS increase with the upcoming patch is exciting news!!!

Thanks for the hard work B6 and rest of team.

Very cool. I was wondering when this aspect of the sim might show up... I know Oleg had talked about it years ago but I had wondered if it had fallen by the wayside. The tank thing isn't as exciting to me as the controllable AAA possibilities. We've always discouraged vulching online as it was unfair in some dogfight server environments.... perhaps this may change things as humans can take control and defend the airfield before flying the next sortie.

Interesting possibilities and I think this is an interesting direction to go in. I still want the focus to be on the air... but seeing as the IL-2 series has nearly always been tactically oriented I can only see good things from a better modeled ground war.

All of these ground vehicles etc always were going to be part of Storm Of War, now IL-2 Sturmovik Cliffs Of Dover. It's not some kind of sudden wim they're taking off on.

Being harassed by a aeroplane in a train..exciting :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GUzTJCumuE

Well, i've got a good track record so far. I only ever advocated two inter-connected features thus far (CEM and systems mamagement, along with clickpits as an interface to manage that for people without a HOTAS set) that met a lot of resistance early on and now almost everyone likes it.

My fiction sure beats other people's fiction i'd say :cool:

Also, this:

...ie, the things we all want as a priority are already well on the road to getting finally fixed.

Not to mention that the "WTH?! Tanks?!" outcries prevent many from noticing the obvious:

a) That the much-maligned graphics performance finally seems up to par. No slowdowns during explosions or display of particle effects at the (comparatively to air combat) extremely close ranges depicted during the ground combat demo

b) That the sounds seem to be getting better and better.

So, in others words

http://i.imgur.com/rwdxT.jpg
:-P

afaik oleg last statements on this was that he didnt aim to include a FPS element, because it would be to complex and to divergent from the other main elements of an integrated battlefield that involved planes/vehicles/tanks/ships

with the advanced articulated skeletal models they did devellop for human figures (remember the video of the pilot climbing in/out of the cockpit ?) there will be some significant improved detail in human figures moving, eg pilots and crew in aircraft, and drivers in tanks/vehicles, but no actual 1e person shooter elemnt

thats at least how i remember it

There you go :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPEbzwWk90I

some examples :]
- germans used mobile flack units on train wagons in france
- some tanks were stationed in various positions near the south coast, in order to repel a possible invasion force. currently no need to have them moving, but destroying them could create points for the attacker
- BoM will be land based with a major land battle component, this obviously is their main purpose of now working on this element
- landing your damaged spitfire in a field, walking to a nearby vehicle and taking control of it to drive back to the nearest airfield is now almost possible
- user created missions on the current BoB maps have already included scenarios where the germans succesfully landed troops on brittish soil, in that fictional scenario having control of ground vehicles is already usefull
- giving initial limited access to these new features before their main implementation in BoM, will allow bug reports and fine tuning of that elemnt and start generating interrest for it from a wider user base
- etc..


:)

Are people blind?
 

I can't speak for him or you, but at least this is the way I see it:
This game is called il2 Cliffs of dover:

- Il2 is the famous name everybody knows for creating an incredible realistic flight simulator. That name will draw flyboys.

- It is the Battle of britain; Won by spitfires and hurricanes. Bob is known for the air war.

- Who buys this game to sit on their ass in a anti-aircraft weapon waiting for 20 minutes for the enemy planes to arrive, or sit in a tank waiting their ass off until a plane arrives??!

- The graphics are not that good to have a FPS view on the ground or driving around. And by what I have seen now, the immersion and gameplay is NOOOOO WHERE Neeeaaar (!) what you can do and see in a cockpit of the planes they have created.

1C: Focus on what this game is all about. At least start on a real immersive dynamic campaign! Don't care if you can change the outcome of the war, that would be actually very cool to try. Every airfield has its own number of planes, the planes need to be repaired and so on.
Heck I rather want you to make it into an RTS / Flight sime: Base managment, ammo, fuel, ordering parts, fixing damaged spitfires...
Rather that than driving a tank waiting 20 minutes for the enemy to arrive.

when we get the patch and it fixes the CTDs, it adds historical FMs and a AI that makes single player worth playing then people(me included) will be much more welcoming to these "other things".
Even if Luthier told us the CTDs have been fixed(why havent they?) and the FMs fixed(again, why cant they?) and the AI improved it would of helped allay peoples worries.

They have had almost full year, we should have a working flight sim with historical FMs if nothing else right?



On a side note, did the tracers look better in that last vid, less lasers? <------------ positive

Tank battle are probably a feature for the next addons (ETO).

Somebody here says: where is the Royal Navy?

Sincerly these update are not related at all with the community expectation about the Battle of Britain.

Tank battle for the England invasion? May be, but before to disembarc in England we should defeat the Royal Navy and off course (first of all) the Royal Air Force: a flight sim called "Cliffs of Dover"......the Channel.

But talking about the Battle of Britain is probably a dead horse.

So again, thank you very much for your time, but these update sounds again like a bad joke.

What i would like to see?

A video about an Emil, with new CEM (debugged - improved), taxi, takeoff and fly in the new clouds, and why not.......over a more credible England (landscape).

Is it asking too much for a flight sim about BoB?

I don't talk about multiplayer, dots ecc. ecc........

Excelen update!
 

Hi!

To the dev.team,

I. The steam, the smoke, the dust, the clouds, must have thick shadow on to the other ojects and surfacess. I saw on the video, that the smoke from the locomotive DID NOT have any shadow on to the lawn! Please add such shadows!

II. Sometimes, I have seen that grass is popping out of the upper surfaces of the wings of belly landed aircrafts! Please fix this!

III. If some vehicle is burning, it should not become pitch black immediately...

IV. A lot of burning objects must create a black cloud covering the area, this way making low visibility or black mist covering the area. Please do it.

Regards!

<---BG-09---<<<

So for the last twelve months since release we have been waiting for fixes to ClOD, flight models, CTDs,frame rates,AI,Radio coms,etc etc.

Instead of concentrating on the core game faults we get drivable vehicles..........

It just looks to me like a lack of focus and direction.

It just seems the devs are more interested in showing the future possibilities of the game engine than actually fixing the actual game.

This is directed at our bunch of complainers.

I recently posted a thread on the Games forum of my football club to ask why the flight genre is so overlooked. There are loads of crappy FPS and other genres which are healthy yet CFS struggles. The answers were:

1. Too complex to learn (steep learning curve).
2. Boring (ie long flight times vs short action). Gamers want to fire up the XBox and be instantly into the action.
3. Not portable to console.

So, the market is limited, the income is small and the detail required is large. Therefore we have to ACCEPT that in order to keep this going it either has to be programmed for FREE by a community or it has to be extended into other income streams. That or nothing at all.

That is unless you can persuade the multitude of BF3 and CoD:MW players to buy a PC and flight controls. They won't, but we can move into areas that meet the demands of others.

Regarding tank "Simulator". Don't assume that just because you are nerdy enough to want every detail in a tank replicated that everybody else does too. If you take into account the above and couple it with the short attention span for entertainment today (movies need instant action, pop music is instant stardom for a year only) then it makes perfect sense to have an 'arcady' tank sim anyway. I re-iterate, the majority of gamers want instant action - that means something easy to learn. Just means players jump from unit to unit as they point and destroy - which means a bigger battle on the ground anyway!

Looking forward to it, bring on the Navy!

I cannot agree more! ...and surprised that your post has not been deleted by now as so many of mine did or have been moved about!;)

I like it and will enjoy taking over air bases with my tanks! :grin:

You mean this? :D Dark Blue World :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0stVlJXAsbQ

Mystic Puma's radar just went off! he will be along shortly...

Distributed AI vehicles?
 

I think the really interesting question raised by this much vehicle detail is whether Luthier et al have managed to distribute the AI control of many vehicles across many computers.

If they have managed this difficult job - hard because the AI actions have to appear to be the same on every flyers computer - then there's the possibility of very large (mostly AI) tank engagements with us flying ground attack - like Kursk.

I always felt that was one of the big limitations of il2 '46, the numbers of vehicles that could be handled was always too low.

Now, I suspect they haven't solved this problem, because it would mean huge amounts of data to be communicated. But if they have, and the "spheres of influence" effects that we see affecting ship positions may be a way of limiting communication load to nearby vehicles, then that really would be a huge step forward for the series.

56RAF_phoenix

F-A-N-T-A-S-T-I-C !!!

World of tanks meets BOB! pity you couldn't FOV45 (close in)

cannot wait.

Do i see a BOM with Kursk option? :-P

.