your words, but if the hat fits, you know.... 20 pages of this and its been explained to you about 20 times, not sure what you'd call that.

you mean you are so busy typing rude posts to people and not actually reading the posts in this thread ? the poster gave it as an example of using the soundmod online recently, you think he was a plant in ninja clothing dropped in by a black UN helicopter in the deep of night ? i'd say its a bit odd you didnt download it with all the arguing about the issue you are doing here in the last week, and now your asking me to help you and repost it again ? and if you are such a smartypants didnt you even notice there is still screenshots posted in this thread from that same track by another users ?

there you go again with your green oranges trying to pretend they are apples. you can call them whatever you will, for the rest of us adding features that aid flying in online servers without other users having access to them, or knowing about it, is cheating !

i find it odd you cant figure these simple things out by yourself. anybody can go out and get a bigger pc, larger monitor, track it etc, the sim is designed to use them and anybody can. in fact it isnt even that "the bigger the better", a user with a 20' crt set at 1024x768 is much better at spotting distant aircraft dots then a 30' lcd user with his screen at native res.

bollocks ! the illustration of the franken planes i gave to show the cutting and pasting of plane structures was well in progress which you were denying. and even for the apparently very innocent ones i posted there was already IMPROVED FEATURES (like cockpit visibility and more transparent glass), this therefore constitutes a form of cheating if used online. i also posted a clip from your little zoo friend indicating they seem to believe that type of bastardizing is entirely normal and will continue.

your convoluted sense of logic is flabbergasting, your now confessing you've known all along cheating is indeed possible, both in the past as well as right now ? why you keep wasting everybody's time here denying it then ?

no i didnt miss the point, but somehow you seem to think you'r going to be rude to people and then they are going to run around and help you just because you dont understand something, or cant find something. is that how it works in your household ? you'r going to have a bit of a rude awakening when you get out of your sheltered life you been leading.

poor loon, is it inconvenient for you there is other forum users whom have a different opinion to your own ? dont babble so much nonsense here and they'll probably leave you alone. just stick to the community back stabbing and childish talk in your own little forum.

Beating, horse, dead.

Zapatista, how about you take up a more noble cause with all the time that you are spending frothing at the mouth here? Like feeding the worlds hungry or something?

The 'children' at the other thread have decided that convincing Oleg would be an easier task than convincing you and your rabid cronies, so hopefully you will be wailing and knashing your teeth together to no one else but yourself very soon.. it's time for you to refocus on something you can control.

No matter the amount of self-indignant righteousness you display here, the genie is out of the bottle, and he ain't being stuffed back in. Get over it.

no it is inconvenient that despite all of this, nothing has come of it other than a 21 page bitchfest. i like different opinions, the world would be dreadfully stagnant and boring without them. the fact that you react in such a way does not give the impression that you value others opinions any more than a starving man values a lump of coal. the childishness is entirely your own, and you are attempting to project it onto anyone that disagrees with you. continue your rant, why not get sweary and stamp your little feet and shake your little fists some more. go on, it does make for cheap amusement.

So, a short summery:


Promodders still wont get the arguments made/know how to define cheating/find evidance of cheating, even if it was all loaded up on a semitruck and ran over them.


But they do find the time to learn how to illigaly hack and destroy a good game.


Its wonderfull world.

it just stroked me .... you are just jealous .... you'd like to know how its done ?

BTW did you apologize to Uther yet?

Come on now Zo, lets keep this Battle of the witts to one threadh.....run back to "Sound Mod" and state an oppinion, any oppinion would do at this point.


Thx.

U guys still want to wake me up when the carousel has stopped?

ground hog day again for inspector Dreyfus ?

twitching a little, drooling a little ? LoL

Did any one look at this..
 

I looked to see if any one used this to show how some of the mods are a problem. One is swapping fm/dm of fighters..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA2Bi...elated&search=


Here is has swapped the Lerche with a do###

If some one has posted this.... sorry for the repeat.

But this is what makes me sick.. Now I have to wonder did I just lose due to my error or a spit 25lb in spit vc cloths.:confused::shock::cry:

Yep, anything is possible now, nothing would surprise me anymore.....but I think that there are not many out there doing this type of thing....still enough to ruin the game though

from another thread in this same forum, where some people are asking to have modifiable sound files and "lock the rest", one person who obviously *knows* enough about what has been altered confirms exactly what is being argued about in this thread

of course he could have been dropped in by black UN helicopter overnight !

Dont know if anyone else have seen it, but yesterday i saw AAA with theire very own server at HL.

I don't ever see many, any, on there when I take a look,...

We all know what is "possible" with these mods, what we want cleared up is whether or not what is "possible" is being done as much as others claim. Anyone who denies that cheating is possible is as much to be ignored as the ones who say cheating is rampant. Mod users are not cheaters, cheaters are cheaters. there were cheaters before the mod, I'm sure there are those out there cheating right now that haven't used the mods. One is not a creator of the other. Those who knew how to cheat before the mod didn't neccessarily cheat either, just because knowing how to mod means it's possible to cheat doesn't mean one does.

Oh come on, Urufu_Shinjiru, you are using the wrong logic for this topic.. It should be:

But.. But... She's a (modder) Witch! BURN Her!

http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_pictur...lyGrail026.jpg

Sorry, I will refrain from using logic and reason from now on, or in other word "I got better..." :)

Ofcoarse, my appologies. I will be bringing you a shrubbery and a herring immidiatly. ;)

have you given up trying to talk sense now zap? well, i suppose it's better that you stop than continue making yourself look foolish.

the witch analogy, well ok, i take your point it could be a bit tasteless, but it does really get the hysterical "everyone is a cheater" note spot on. maybe mccarthyism would be a better one, and it's all "reds under the bed"?
anyway, have a good christmas folks

Puleeeaase.. enough with the PC crap and accusations of misrepresenting the plight of innocent crispy critter-witches some 500 odd years ago and offending your delicate sensibilities in the process, in relation to the Evil Empire modders.

The analogy is about as applicable as it can be. Monty Python, and this thread, are at equal planes of absurdity and parody as far as a 'serious discussion' can get, in reference to the real world.

Ho Ho Ho

Just to clarify some mis-information and incorrect statements and assumptions. I've received a lot of Dear Santa PM in the past week, so instead replying to them all, this should cover it. (I'm a little busy right now)

The ntrks that were posted by me earlier...
Were made in Dec 2007 in version 4.08m (Not a previous version and not 409)
They were not made by some trick of the conf.ini file or any other ntrk trick.
There may be ways to do something similar in some other way. This was done simply by using the Sound Hack and downloads available at the much argued about website. No extractor or special java knowledge or tools....just the files offered from the site and no outside link.
The Lerche was NOT a choice in the servers. The violent reaction of the players in chat as they described there feelings about cheating with mods is why several of the ntrks were not posted for all.

Several asked why the Lerche didn't fly in the CTR=2 rooms or why they never saw it...It did. You needed to override the ntrk view control and cycle through the many players in the room. Instead of teaching those who have difficulty in figuring this out, I am simply re-posting a short version of the track filmed in WOE from another angle so that you can simply see it.

About a dozen similar tracks where made on the same day in servers including.
Spits vs 109s
Skies~of~Warping
UK Dedicated
Zeke vs Wilcats
WingOverEurope
and more, several of which are CRT=1 and CRT=2 and the Lerche was not a choice.

Since the original tracks were posted, several have asked for me to prove it by meeting them on their servers... Which I've done.

For those that didn't see the original ntrks, plenty of people have them and are welcome to re-post them.

Some of the naughty PMs assumed that I am against mods.
I am not against mods as long as the mods are created in a legal manor and/or the developer has given consent. There must also be a working option for the host/server to block the mods (and mutants of them) from online servers IF they are not welcome.. (LOL new technical term... mutant mods)

This ntrk simply shows that online players are not guaranteed a level playing field in 4.08m because the checkruntime is easily beat. The ntrk shows a Sound Hack Lerche take off in an online server (WOE) where the Lerche was not a choice and was not welcome. Again..this can be done in any crt=2 room. A Lerche was used to make it obvious. Using the sound hack any FM, DM or many other types of cheats could be used.

Ho Ho Ho - Still hope the Elves are working on 409 and its near release.

http://rapidshare.com/files/78861110...t_WOE.zip.html

A witch?
 

I thought this appropriate? yes no?


http://youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU

are you paying attention now loon ?

focus 1 2 3......

did you spot the really hard to understand part there ? checksum 2 or 1 didnt block what he did

yes, using unauthorized planes in servers that limit plane sets is cheating, even if in your lala land you are going to give it a different name. emm how about using a less obvious plane like the 25lpd spit in a server that has only 1942 or 1943 spits ? make sure you set blabber mode to at least 3 to try and talk your way around that. same with adding mirrors, gyro's, removing cockpit visibility limitations etc.

ahh and now that yet again another person has shown that checksum 2 limitations does diddly squat for most people that want to get around it, make sure you instantly forget it was ever posted and just keep sprouting your nonsense, since wherever you come from you seem to believe that increasing the quantity of nonsenseincrease its relevance.
you say somehow like magic it will

and fear not tomorrow when you wake up your world will be exactly the same again, as if santa's post never happened, and you never read it.

sure, that sounds like a great idea, but it wasnt the purpose of this specific thread. in the initial soundmod thread a small number of people kept insisting cheating with the soundmod hack was completely impossible because checksum 2 prevented its use, so as a collective act of genius one of them started this thread.

since then multiple examples have been given of what type of cheats currently exist, and that many of them cant be detected by other people making tracks. several people in these same threads (and the AAA forum) then confirmed that checksum 2 doesnt work anymore.


it being rampant doesnt really matter, the fact that it is happening is a concern for most of the online il2 users. and what is beyond doubt is that the problem is much more of an issue then before the soundmod was first released. the genie cant be put back into the bottle either, unless a new anti hack lock is implemented in 4.09, which takes time and resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urufu_Shinjiro View Post
We all know what is "possible" with these mods, what we want cleared up is whether or not what is "possible" is being done as much as others claim.
sure, that sounds like a great idea, but it wasnt the purpose of this specific thread.

Yes it was.We all know that cheating is possible with il2.I started this thread for the people who said they had proof of cheating online to post their proof.So far Santa Claus (?) has posted tracks of himself going into servers and proving that it is possible to cheat if you want to.We all know this,that it is possible to cheat.I really just wanted to see the tracks that everyone had made showing all this cheating going on online.

With all respect Uther, but how can you see in a track that someone is using for example blank cockpit in his plane? Or cockpit with good visibility as Yak-3 substituded in FW-190? Or lead computing gunsight in La-5? Or someone has changed default skins so all enemy planes are pink? I think that no track will show this and such suspicions can have very bad effect...

Arrow, I don't know how you can see these things. The original idea for this thread was for people to post their proof of cheating that they said they had.
Really, we all know that cheating goes on in this game,as in others.It has been going on for years,in one form or another.Thats not news.All we can hope for is for 4.09 to close this particular issue.

Well I can't see what the hoo-haa is about. IL2 is getting four engine bombers and other planes that IMHO should have been in the sim long ago. The sound mod gave Allied planes a decent sound at last and some Axis planes as well. The ppl over at allaircraftarcade.com are not touching f/ms or d/ms. The idea is to enhance the sim not wreck it. There have been cheats in IL2 for years and there will be now and in the future but they are such a small number so who cares. The great majority of ppl downloading the mods are enjoying flying "new" planes and hearing "new" sounds - paranoia is getting the better of some ppl.....if you get shot down it is most likely because you made a mistake and not that the shooter is hacking.

@jagdwaffe
most of us believe that the people at aaa have good intentions.
The bad thing is that those intentions make the abuse also possible.
That ist the fear around here. You can´t be shure anymore.

Then you have people changing WM which isn't any better.

robtek:: If we are concerned about cheating in the anonymous public servers, we should concern ourselves with those who are doing any cheating.

No there isnt... there is absolutly NO touching of FM/DM or WM's. At AAA - its strictly forbidden! I suggest you look into these things before you make wild accusations.

except of course that they openly provide the tools and method to access it, and it can then be done by any 12yo who is able to cut and paste in notepad.

whatever AAA's good intention, they are part of the problem.

Well what are you paranoid ppl going to do? Accept things the way they are? Quit flying IL2 online? Conduct a witch hunt to find the cheats? You should do something instead of making accusations and getting ppl arguing with each other. Be constructive.

you'r being a bit revisionist there and are failing to mention the main issue, which was that this thread was started because 3 or 4 of the pro hack kiddies kept insisting for 30 pages that online cheating with the soundmod hack was not possible, and that checksum 2 still prevents it.

all that nonsense was then used to claim that the hack kiddies were really a bunch of super cool uber programmers that were going to create a fantastic new version of il2 and everybody should be grateful for the tinkering.


so this thread was started stating:

as it turned out:
- many new forms of cheating can now happen since the soundmod hack was released, and most of this cant really easily be detected by other users making tracks (removing cockpits, replacing cockpits, adding bright fluro skins to enemy planes..)
- links to specific mods were given showing exactly that you can now add mirrors, remove cockpit parts that block visibility, add gun gyro's ....
- its been shown you can create your own franken monster plane by cutting and pasting bits and pieces from various planes
- checksum 2 doesnt work if you use the "right" version of of the soundmod hack
- you can use any plane you like in full real servers, even if it isnt on the list
etc... etc...

i'd say that proves pretty conclusively that "cheating using the soundmod hack" is indeed happening, and that cheating is much more of a problem then it was before.

Mr Zapatista, Im afraid you're incorrect in a couple of aspects here... First off, yes parts of the cockpit CAN be removed, but they arent being removed (at least @ the AAA forums). "Frankenstein" aircraft, are not a cheat, infact its no different than wearing your own skin on your own aircraft. All it does is change the look. Every 'frankenstein' aircraft, is built on an aircraft featuring a simular FM/WL/DM to the 'frankenplane' in concept - and there is NO alteration to any of the 'big three' no no's. This means that all that is different, is that the person flying the franken plane see's his tempest, as a tyhoon. Thus there is absolutly NO way that can be constituted a cheat.
Secondly, the 'using anyplane in any server' is something which is not a feature of the 'soundmod hack'. If it is infact being done, it is an additional mod, more than likely one that even out dates the more recent 'sound mod'.

I personally, however, am in agreement with you in regards to the possibility that the gyro sight and mirror additions, are perhaps rather unfair. AND the only thing I can think of that even vaguely justifies the use of these mods is that, yes, they are historically correct additions.

As for the changing of default skins, I believe that it was actually possible to do before the release of the sound mod - i remember seeing something around 6 odd months ago about it.

Now, perhaps instead of just pointing fingers, guys, how about we look into a way that we could, as a community, cap, or even direct, what happens from here...

Zapatista:: Sounds like a social behavioral problem on anonymous public servers that most of Oleg's customers don't face -- why do we choose to fly with people who would cheat us? That's why I said earlier that this thread serves no purpose. Proof of hack cheating on anonymous public servers would only demonstrate a social behavioral problem with some online play cheaters.

@lexx
as a few posts before was mentioned: where do the people with the "social behavioral problem" get the tools to do their misdeeds?

@all

again as mentioned before: The reason for this Thread was to get proof that cheating with the sound-hack on checksum 2 "protected" Servers was possible.

That was done!!!

Thread closed??

robtek:: Correct. The tool is not the misdeed.

This may be (?) a better explanation: The hacking itself can be seen as a misdeed if Oleg personally dis-likes it, which I assume. Using the hack/mod tools to cheat in anonymous public servers is a different misdeed which is not related to using the tools for non-cheating purposes.

The mod/hack tool can have no negative effect on any type of gameplay. Only the online players in anonymous public servers can cheat in anonymous public servers and so negatively effect only anonymous public server gameplay.

except that if you'd actually read the whole thread you'd already know that is not the case.

the few examples i already posted of some of the franken planes had improved visibility from the cockpit, so yes, even using those constitute cheating.

not correct either, but you can try and play with words if you want to spin it in one direction or the other. i'd say the way santa clause worded it avoids most confusion...

it doesnt matter if its historical or not, what matters is that people adding bits and pieces as they see fit, and it cant be detected online, nor can it be prevented.


its now a lot easier, and every dog and cat knows where to get the files

its a nice idea, but the horse has bolted, and nobody has control anymore of what happens with it from now on

Like I've said before, some of the folks at that other forum may have had the best of intentions, however they failed to take into account human nature. Once the seal to Pandora's Box was removed there was no stopping or controlling the outcome. The hacks are loose online, and there is nothing they can do about it. All the righteous words and intentions are meaningless.

You messed up.

You trusted people.

Big mistake.

Time to admit it to yourselves.

Surely its the regular Hyperlobby players that have the issue with trust, you expect...no, indeed demand to be able to play with random, anonymous people of all ages and all nationalities and for that to be in a friendly historically accurate cheat-free environment!
Long before the Sound Mod came along there were issues with anonymous online play...whether that was suspected cheating, known exploits...(Lag Manipulation, Prnt Scrn, Disconnecting), innappropriate behaviour (bad language, abuse of chat/teamspeak), bad gamesmanship (friendly shooting, vulching, shoulder shooting, kill stealing etc etc...Thats without even mentioning the typical plane choices of many online players...
The issue is not with the Mod, but the fact that amongst Online players there will always be people who will abuse the system..whether to gain an advantage for themselves in their narrow "stat driven" mentality or simply because they enjoy spoiling other peoples fun...
Get rid of that element, be that through stronger Server Admin, Password access or private servers and you will have the gameplay you desire...Sound Mod or no Sound Mod.

@jasonbirder
The issue is insofar with the hack that the hack makes it possible that every tom, dick or harry can modify the game.
But that has been said many times before and i am afraid it will be ignored again.

it doesnt really work like that in practice, and having the program files open as they are now is very different from the odd cheater pressing printscr.

the great thing about the online community with il2 has always been that at almost anytime of the day you can find some online servers with other enthusiasts on it from around the world. you dont need to know them personally for this to work, but it does/did rely on a fair and level playing field.

given the previous track record with hacks in most other games, we'll rapidly descend to the lowest common denominator.

Surely if it was such a great community, you wouldn't have to worry about people cheating you, the moment the opportunity became available?

@jasonbirder

what is it that you have to talk bad about the online community?
just to have the last word in a lost argument?

jasonbirder:: robtek:: That wasn't bad talk, but an observation on a small minority of hostile behaving players who can negatively effect anonymous public server gameplay and the worries of the majority of anonymous public server players.

Indeed. Hostile or non-cooperative gamer behavior on anonymous public servers years before this mod/hack is why many Online players retreated to private servers, or in extreme desperate cases, ran back to Offline play.

Zapitista raises an interesting point however and we'll take it further. One of the popular features among many customers is instantly available -- on demand -- anonymous gameplay without facing the need to trust other players on the field. For the Newbies just entering the sim, or first going Online, they may not know a "private" squad/server to join, and so see the anonymous public servers first -- along with the potentially hostile behavior and now, potential mod/hack cheating and more important, actual and popular webboard accusations of mod cheating.

Oleg poasted at ubizoo that he would split BoB And Beyond into "moddable" and "unmoddable" versions -- moddable for Offline play and open mod friendly servers, and closed or no modding to no-modding servers.

To some extent, we hope that's what happens with "moddable" 4.08 and "unmoddable" 4.09. From FB 1.0 up to now, the sim has been at one extreme -- "unmoddable" but with the mod/hack became more or less the other extreme -- "moddable." Hopefully, 4.09 will allow "unmoddable" while those wishing "moddable" will still have 4.08.

i often find your sense of logic hard to follow. you make leaps and bounds between totally unrelated factors and blend them into a soup

yes, its great that you can find online servers with other enthusiasts on it from around the world, and having a level playing field.

how do you suddenly equate that with it not mattering that you can now join those same servers with hacks and other forms of cheating, and that the use of those hacks and cheats is unrestricted and remains undetected ? or that those same hack users not caring about the disruption caused to legitimate users ?

Think i by misstake claimed in an earlier post that the tracks where made in 4.09.

I meant to say, of course, that it was in 4.08.

Sry, typo.

Originally Posted by jasonbirder:: Jasonbirder has offered us a too brief although deep insight into how a small minority of cheating players might negatively effect the otherwise great anonymous public server community when a possibility arises. As we covered last page, hostile or non-cooperative gamer behavior on anonymous public servers -- along with older cheats and exploits -- long before this mod/hack appeared is why many Online players retreated to private servers or even escaped back to Offline play. This long history of social behavioral problems on the FB/PF anonymous public servers shows that cheaters may be waiting to jump upon any opportunity that may arise.

However, we cannot assume that anonymous public server gameplay is the only gameplay that Oleg's customers are interested in. I think we are confusing the desire felt by many of Oleg's customers to improve alternative forms of gameplay with the desire by a few to cheat in the anonymous public servers. The solution for all of Oleg's customers would be an effective version split, say...

(1) Unhacked 4.09 for those hoping for cheat-free anonymous public server gameplay and those wanting to use new 4.09 features for any form of gameplay, including Newbies to the online aspect of the sim who would see this version first and only later (a good reason for the ubizoo Mod censoring) learn about....

(2) Hacked or unofficially "moddable" 4.08 that allows Oleg's customers to customize their sim in new ways that allow deeper simulation immersion for those who desire it.

------

Santa:: Good one!

Well, I hope the server admin's institute some kind of I.P. ban on those offenders. As a member of the Winds of War, I have not seen any complaints thus far on our server.

WC does the same , WCWF we try too run a clean server , with no buts

Well there is a small flaw in this logic, and don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bust your balls here. You state that this proves conclusively that cheating is indeed happening, that is not correct, all that proves is that cheating is possible. You also stated earlier that is it beyond doubt that cheating has increased since the sound mod was released, I have to disagree. I do have doubt that cheating has increased, I fly 90% online and I have been flying regularly for four years or more, we all know that proof or no we can just "tell" when there's real cheating going on, well that has not increased for me. I have not seen any more occurences that make me say "that had to be a cheat" than I did before. And it is not the fact that I fly this server or that server, since some of my favorite servers I can no longer get into as I have vista and they have crt=2. Call me a softy but I don't beleive there are that many in the il2 community that would cheat, I just don't think it is as bad as it's being made out to be. You say that the fact that it is possible to cheat makes onliner worry, well yeah, but how much are you supposed to worry? There was cheating before and noone went nuts like is happening now. Why is this such a huge freaking deal, I just don't see it.

Because not every dick,tom or harry could do it as they can do it now with the soundhack.

I've bolded the important part, they CAN do it. Thats not in contention, I haven't seen any overwhelming evidence that it IS happening (and I don't mean to say "prove it", I'm just saying I don't see it actually happening). Yes, every tom dick and harry can do it now, but not every tom dick and harry is or will do it. Sure, I'm willing to concede that there may be a small increase in cheating over this, but why do mod users get abused over this? The only reason there is even a debate over this thing is that right off the bat someone said "mod users are automatically cheater" and all the honorable and good intentioned mod users said "hey, wtf? I'm no bloody cheater". The cheaters are pretty much guarenteed not to be even involved in this argument, as they don't care about their reputation being smeared over "mods", hell, cheaters probably don't even care about the mods, thier just glad to have an avenue to cheat. I didn't have a damn thing to do with cracking the il2 code, I haven't extracted any files, if I could I would put it all back in the box, but as it stands it has been broken and my not using the mods is not going to accomplish anything but to deny me the really nifty things AAA is doing. I don't use gunsight or mirror mods online, I don't use 6dof, and do not even offline touch some of the weapon mods out there, why, because I disagree with having that kind of advantage. Does that mean I should persecute people because they "might" be using a mirror or a gunsight? Hell no! I just do my best to outfly the other sonofabitch, can't shoot down what you can't get behind, same as it's always been, same as it always will be.

Agreed US. Well written!

"I just do my best to outfly the other sonofabitch, can't shoot down what you can't get behind, same as it's always been, same as it always will be." Urufu Shinjiro.

Has the online games shut down? Or are people still flying online as usual?

Well I flew online (Svs109 & AFW that is) a lot during Xmas and frankly speaking never noticed anything out of ordinary. But then I AM a bomber / ground attack jock and thus will NOT actively seek contact w/ enemy fighters, so what do I know? ;)

Ask Erkki, he's an excellent fighter pilot and AFAIK mostly flies online so he should know what's up I think...

...frankly how is anyone going to know if one has been "victimized" by a cheat online......unless its as blatant as saddling up on his six and having him hit the afterburners and "he's a dot".....what are we supposed to be looking for here.

If every time I go online I am going to have to worry about this mod and that mod and the CRT=whatever; then where is the fun. I guess its about trust; there will always be some people that want to push the limits....I guess that is fun for them. Meanwhile what do you do...find a nice group of folks to fly with in passworded servers, be a target tug, or just hang the old HyperLobby up for good!

Is it OK to have trim on a slider! Remember that fracas!:rolleyes:

It is always gonna be out there. Every time you play online, it doesn't matter what game. It always has been.

I would like to hear Erkki's opinion if he cares to post.

I received a bunch of ntrks today and thought I would share two with you.

These were sent from a disgruntled AAA member who said ‘What goes on in the forum vs. what goes on in the private message system are very different.”

Exchanged information includes…
Changing default maps from summer maps to winter maps for better visibility in closed cockpit servers. Changing default skins to bright colors and changing cockpits for better visibility, were just a few items mentioned with regards to cheating without touching the FM, DM or WM and passing 408 CRT=2...all through the use of the “sound mod”.

Via PM’s finding help and swapping FM, DM and WM information is common, even amongst the admin’s. Helping each other make difficult to detect mods such as giving aircraft a 10-20% boost in turning, climbing or firepower etc. A few are now collaborating and sharing extreme mods.

To be fair, I don’t believe all pro mod people are cheating crack heads as someone previously hinted. Some of the modders are upset about the path the mods are taking while many others are having fun with it.

I picked two tracks with regards to an extreme WM to share. Some of the other tracks weren’t as obvious or extreme but the mod easily could out maneuver and destroy the others.

The films speak for themselves, but for those that don’t want to bother downloading them, here is a brief description.

One film shows an aircraft use only its machine guns to destroy every object on and island in the very far distance (miles away) using only a few short burst. It then destroys 4 bombers with a few short burst. If you look closely, you can see that one bomber is hit so hard that it knocks several others out of the air.

The second film shows online action in Skies~of~Fire where a Mod vulches an enemy airbase with guns from a long ways off, destroying everyone near the base. (Watch the chat for kill confirmations.)

Without better protection, IL2 will become like CFS2 did in the end. The 409server needs a better checkruntime. Otherwise, onliners will be stuck in small private password protected rooms.

http://rapidshare.com/files/79753704...angle.zip.html

**Edit -Update: I talked with Skies~of~Fire RS admin and they confirmed the film is legit. They had another track and banned the player immediatley. This was done before I posted the track here. Congrats to RS for taking immediate action.

Your kidding right? The first one is in QMB, and the second is just a outside view from a Spit that shoots at the base. Yes, you see kill messages. Man I can show you a track of me strafing a field with the out side view from someone else. And I really , really don't think anyone would use the name "AAA_Badboy",and cheat if it was not a shill from the anti-mod crowd. Can someone say that they were on the server that night? Sorry man, but me, myself and I need more proof than that. With the ability to manipulate tracks for movies today.........I find that just a little too obvious.


DerAlte

Hmmm...

Skies~of~Fire stats page. http://www.skiesoffire.org/modules.php?name=RStats

AAA_BadBoy The stats look bad however.
Last mission... 9 enemy kills <- in one flight.
Last two missions 16 kills in two flights??
Hit bullets=29 and at the same time enemy aircraft Kills=18

29 kills with only 18 hits all in a matter of minutes online.

Killed 3 B25 bombers offline with a short burst.
Destroyed cars, tanks and AAA from miles away.
Online Destroys 9 enemy with 2 short burst from miles away.

Edit* I have viewed the online long range vulche from several angles and added a 3rd ntrk to the zip file. I don't see anyone firing near the base on the first burst. Spontaneous combustion? Then on the second burst you do see another vulcher, but you can see his name and he fires after the main explosion. At the same time you don't see AAA_Badboy anywhere near the base, but if you watch the chat, he gets credit for the kills. The callsigns destroyed also match the stats page.

I think what the tracks above show, is that it can be done offline and online. I dont know how someone can make a trick ntrk and then on the same day hack the Skies~of~Fire stats page. I'm sure there must be an easy explanation... can't wait to hear it.

3 ntrks with the alternate view. http://rapidshare.com/files/79753704...angle.zip.html

*Edit -Update: I talked with Skies~of~Fire RS admin and they confirmed the film is legit. They had another track and banned the player immediatley. This was done before I posted the track here. Congrats to RS for taking immediate action.

HanzBlixz,

good post, and the priv msg'ing at AAA about FM/DM hacks is the same that i had heard about, so its good to see it confirmed by somebody else as well.

the AAA-badboy stats speak for themselves really, he's not even bright enough to pick a name that doesnt link him to AAA

and no sign of a new protection in 4.09 beta, this means its unlikely to be added to 4.09

and just so we keep the relevant information in one place,

....confirmation of weapons being altered at other il2 hack forums

and

In defense of AAA..

"he's not even bright enough to pick a name that doesnt link him to AAA"
The callsign may be bogus or it may be a former member who is upset with them.

"no sign of a new protection in 4.09 beta" This doesn't necessarily mean that the 409 server won't.

Also, its very important to point out..
Skies~of~Fire did a great job at catching this and not allowing it.
The admin on Skies~of~Fire had their own ntrk and immediately banned the person.

~S`Gentlemen

I am an admin at Skies~Of~Fire/Skies~Of~Valor - www.skiesoffire.org. Our admins have recorded this incident also. The perpetrator AAA_Badboy is not a member of the AAA team AllAircraftArcade. He is an imposter and has been banned from both of our servers. Here is his IP for all community server admins to document/ban:

AAA_Badboy - IP: 24.19.244.48

It appears the bullets of the Spitfire (Badboy) in the n-track are guided similar to the rockets for the Ta-152C. Possibly a hack for the guns to be similar.

We have also banned another flier in our server:

Daichidiki - IP: 76.22.62.154 (Daichidoku imposter)

This visitor to our server was observed flying an indestructible Lerch...when there was not even a Lerch in the planeset. I heard this also happened in a full real server in Hlobby. This pilot was banned from both of our servers also and has not resurfaced.

We do allow the sound mod on our servers as do the majority of Hyperlobby servers. Many allow it since runtime alterations are causing problems with various operating systems ie..Vista. Our servers are configured the way they were provided by UbiSoft in the latest patch. We do not promote the use of any mods, however we are aggressively monitoring the behavior of all the aircraft in game knowing many in the community have the sound mod. Many of us have flown IL2 since 2001 and are very familiar with most if not all of the flight characteristics in game. Any bizarre anomalies are met with removal/ban from our servers.

The guys at AAA have made a sound mod for the game to merely improve the quality of the sound. They have also made a couple of the bombers and a few other AI aircraft flyable. We have met these guys on our Teamspeak comms and know them very well. They have no bad intent for flight model alterations in IL21946. They are merely just making the game more attractive to potential new fliers within this community and kicking some life into this fantastic seven year old game. The AAA are very honest and welcome anyone to their website forums to see what they are up to.

I find it ironic that as soon as we recorded this incident (n-track above), banned the mod flyer and started discussing it, it shows up here in with an elaborate description of the stats, along with several people bringing this to HanzBlixz. This within a very short period of time....hhmmmm.....curious.

Thank you for reviewing my reply. We are doing the best we can right now to keep hackers with malicious intent away from our servers. Also to report them within the community so we can try and keep them away. Over the last few months we have had a strong presence in Hyperlobby not because of any game mods, but because of a dedicated hard working team of flight sim enthusiasts that just want the community to have a great experience. We have a wide range of great maps and various planesets to accommodate all levels of expertise. One server open pit and one closed. Please stop by some time and get to know some of the SOF community. See you in the Skies! ~S`alute

Built

Saddly, it isn't necessary to have the sound mod to perform this kind of cheat.... Qtim's available tools (available since long time) are enough...

Anyone can access java classes with Qtim's tools can very easily tweak weapons...... it is not so new.

AAA and Wasy are probably for nothing in this case.

Weapons or FM swapping are very saddly 2 of the most easier things to modify.

What is really hard is to make a good and accurate tweaking.... but the thing seen in your tracks is easy to done..... too much easy for everyone has bad intentions.

I effectively try to tweak some weapons for more accuracy (like Breda or 13.2 browning for IAR 81A) i don't agree at all with use of widly exagerated weapons.

Not my way. I never diffuse tools or method how to do that.

The fact that you "don't agree" "with use of widly exagerated weapons" is irrelevant to the discussion. Nobody care, either pro- or against "modders". Other "modders/hackers" use what they want to use, and will not ask authorisation to anybody, neither you, I or the official dev.... nobody can't do anything against that. The Pandora box is oppen, and nobody will close it, whatever is tried to limit the mess.
Before the tools, there was a central control (M:1C) to control the quality, accept and deliver (in official patches) the third-party modders work. Now this control is non-existent since everybody can freely bypass it with Qtim tools.... and nothing will ever replace it. Those who think the contrary and believe a "player community authority" (like I see some suggestions on some forums) or anything else can replace it.... are just dreamers.

It's a fact, and we have to live with. My only hope is that online integrity may be restored with a "CRT=3" check in the patch official release... there's no official promise about it, but I still hope...

It's good that you don't diffuse tools and method to do that.... for your own sake... In fact, everybody can find Qtim's tools with a 5mn search (took me 1mn When I tried... just to verify... I'm wont do anything with these tools).

I'm a bit puzzled that when some calls were done on some forums to help building objects for some official mods (maps), so few peoples answered... and that now on the same forums, everybody's happy to "mod" and to show their "modding".... but I shouldn't be... it's human nature.
Very few peoples wants to give a bit of freetime inside a constrainted project, with quality control.... and when there's no more constraints, no quality control and when freedom is total, much more peoples are interested.
Now I read there and there some "free modders" whining about the lack of "self-control" of other "free modders"..... Gives me a good laugh each time... :)
It sounds like "we want freedom... but only for serious guys like us"... do you really think this kind of speach has any chance to be heard seriously?

I feel maybe that some "Anti-modders" are just trying to discredit the AAA gang and what they are trying to do. It is a shame really. After reading some posts here, it seems that the "Anti-Mod" crowd knows more about DM/FM hacking than anyone.

Strange, really strange indeed.

DerAlte

I feel that your animosity against non-hackers disqualifies your opinion.
The non-hackers didn´t hurt or affect anyone until they were affected.

Actually the animosity displayed by the anti-modders should disqualify thier opinions.

Instead of showing tracks or any other media option out there to prove there is cheating going on we have gotten 28 pages of bashing each other about the head. So i want to see a track of cheating.

And i know all about the one posted here earlier and no its not cheating it could be done on the onset of the IL2 series. Its so the developers could test to see if the AI planes could fly of not.

@lw_lcarp

did you read this post?
What did you not understand?
sometimes i think a wall will give better replies.

Did you read his post Robtek? Thought not.

Remember, engage brain, THEN mouth........ :D

DerAlte

@deralte
There is this post where a actual cheating is proven , with tracks!
That is what he asked for.
Maybe you should look at yourself.

Well i did ask for links to the cheats not posts about them. Anyone can post oh hey i seen a P11 flying as fast as a 262 and had 40 108s blazing out of it. I want links to D/L something so I can look at it.

And also the head bashing mine bigger then yours bs is getting old. instead of these posts going the way of the dodo they actually get brought back to the top by a purist nut.

Icarp, please get your head out of the sand.

You are saying that if you personally don't see these things happening then they don't exist?

Come on man.

All I know is, if you shoot me down.......you must be cheating !!!!! :D


DerAlte

The AAA community is not the only mod community around. Just because a flyer has AAA in his handle does not mean that he is from AAA... Someone else insinuated that an anti mod person might have been impersonating a modder... Well that notion strikes me as two sheets beyond ridiculous.. the guy who was cheating was a modder.. whether or not he was from AAA no one but he knows. One thing that really really kills me about this whole issue though is that polls across multiple forums seem to indicate that over half the IL2 community is over 30.... which in light of some of the comments from both sides and some of the incidences reported... just amazes me. I always thought that the maturity of this community was one of it's strong suits and that should the day ever come when modding was a reality in this sim.. that that maturity would at least serve to maintain the competitive edge to a degree... limiting the willingness to cheat since... a win by a cheat is no win.. it only counts on the numbers and any man who feels good about any kind of victory gained unfairly except in the case of a life or death struggle where of course.. anything goes, is no man at all, and that person has no integrity whatsoever. Not to be sexist ... I know there are ladies here as well.

LW_lcrap

Based on your last two posts. I need to ask you a question.

Did you actually download and review the ntrks from the link provided???

By saying "I want links to D/L something so I can look at it." it sure doesnt sound like you actually downloaded and looked at them.

In general, if someone is going to post a comment (intelligent or otherwise) about an ntrk, they may want to actually download the ntrks from the link provided. Review them on their own and then comment on them if desired.

Personally I believe the AAA guys are just way tooo darn nice for my tastes. That's why I am a member of DTAOLNM...

"Death to all sissy-fied on-Line Non Modders" > "Death from Above , Below and right up your little panzy butts!" :)

um...pardon me, but I think the AAA forum has told of at least one (1) example of mod cheating on the AAA server which I assume is an anonymous public server, and mod friendly I think.

If that is the case, we have the ultimate proof, and we may lock this thread now, unless it can serve continuing use like maybe used by no-mod server admins to discuss anti-mod intercepts and strategies, or something like that. Would that be Correct Thinking?

Well you need to ask if I downloaded and watched the tracks and its in the 29th page of this topic then guess what I havent seen ANY links to any cheats.

Im just getting sick and tired of people like you that obviously cant read between the lines. The Ubizoo is full of people like that and a couple of them think they are almost godlike in their greatness.

LW_lcrap

I asked you if you downloaded and watched the tracks from this link that was posted several pages ago.

http://rapidshare.com/files/79753704...angle.zip.html

Since that link was posted you have made several comments including.

"I want links to D/L something so I can look at it."

There is the link again... Did you download the ntrks and look at them?

It was the very, very old "flying a plane that is not on the server list" trick. That so-called cheat has been around for years. Nothing really new about that one.

DerAlte

your showing paranoid delusions now, and are getting irrational

the simplest explanation in this case is probably the most likely one

somebody who got some files from AAA or a similar forum and did some hacking and chopping to change a few more things, et voila he had a magic superman gun. its not very hard to do.

lets keep this conversation really simple so you dont need to go looking in cloud cookoo land for explanations, if il2 hadnt been hacked and the information "how to" placed all over the web, none of this would be happening. simple aint it ?

and this will only get worse, the kiddie fun has only just started imo.

dont flatter yourself, the AAA forum is only a small part of the problem, there is many more like it.

the reason that some posters in this thread kept kicking AAA is because a few lost AAA sheep like yourself kept pretending in this thread that there was no way to cheat online with the soundmod hack, and that the hacking problem wasnt ruining the online full real community.

Oh my goodness, were is the ignore button. Zap, you really, really bore me now. As we say in Good Old Germany....... LMAA !!!!! :D

DerAlte

DerAlte:: Ah okay. Thanks.

Thank you for that I didnt see the link and was getting tired of being ragged on about it. Just like at the ubizoo.

Seems like an aimbot. Point it in a dirrection shoot and things die. Cant even see anything at the distances they are at.

that is a nice principle to work under, but sadly what will ruine the online world is people using the exact same method but to make exagerated superman weapons, and there is no way to stop them or detect them.

btw how do you know you are making it more realistic and accurate ? for example with fixing the ".50 cal problem" (where many people for a long time have complained it isnt as effective as it should be), do you only look for errors in the il2 code, or use % increase in weapons damage rate ?

and one unwanted side effect, even if the hack is used to fix errors with the best intentions, the problem is still that people can use those "fixes" to fly online on full real servers with checksum 2 enabled, and they are not prevented from joining, and other users are using a less effective ammunition even if it is the same loadout

What I have found quite interesting from all these posts is the many many ways one can cheat without even using the "sound mod". Apparently they are all "approved cheats" because the Il-2 code wasn't hacked in developing them... :)

zapatista (to uf_josse):: Correct, those would be Online cheaters, but not uf_josse, infiltrating the anonymous public servers until Oleg fixes the hole -- or he moves beyond to BoB And Beyond.

there you go with your illogical thought patterns again.

yes, previously some cheats existed (some were obvious like the "print screen" lag trick, others less obvious like switching off an overheating engine to instantly cool it).

no, that isnt the same as now with the soundmod hack opening the whole FM and DM of aircraft with notepad and cutting and pasting new munitions to make uber planes.

is the difference really that hard to understand that you need strangers on the internet to point it out to you ?

Hummm, for answering and clarify my work, i work directly in java code of the game...

Weapons have allready really usefull and good choosen properties, like weight, speed, type of munition, type of power, ability to penetrate and so on..... game engin is really well done for weapons.

When i had a look, i compare many things to doc (books, net and so on).

For example..... did you know that IAR81A used same 303 as the spit and MG131 in game? :rolleyes:

Did you know that HS129 antitank guns had no APCR rounds ?

I manage to modify mg131 to have FN-browning 13.2 with accurate datas... no more (impossible at this stage to put FN-Browning in 7.92 instead 303 because it impact other planes, like spitfire and i don't modify in FM because i don't want to give more possibilities to cheat at those to download my mods..so, probably never put 7.92 on IAR-- sad).

Mg151/15 had no explosive shells... i gave it, but much less powerfull than mg151/20)

For the .50, i don't modify power of weapon or munition, just modify belting to have API and APIT.... no more.

Put APCR rounds for HS129 mk101 and BK37, change ROF to accurate values (160 rpm for BK37 and 230 for MK101)

Breda where dramaticaly too weak...... they were surely much less powerfull like .50, but..... not so that it was in game.... they are actually circa 40% weaker with my mod, seem to me not exagerated and corresponding to real datas.(power at muzzle was circa 10000 joules IRL and much less in game.... 0.50 had 0.97g of chemical charge, and HE breda 0.88g...

it was not the case in game for the breda. I made the rectification.

Had also the 1.17 g of chemical charge in MG131 HE, like in real life and so on...

I do no more, no less.... (BTW, i have patched my MG151/15 mod that was too strong).

SO, it isn't empirical method, just change game values when needed....

I surely don't touched anything if it was just matter on some details, but.... they are no details, just enormous differences, and strangely in wide majority of cases, for only one side.... so, i decided to make some rectifications.... i am perhaps little bit wrong for some weapons, but i sincerely think much less than original game....


Now, if you fire at short distance and with some angle, you can flamme a fw190, you can also in same conditions shoot down a spitfire with a folgore..... just as seen in guncam footages... it was often that the users of my mods said to me....

I work exactly as described in this post. and i don't want affect FM or DM, no ability to do that ..... and don't think it is a good idea.


Btw, i think a way can be find between modders and "pure-onliners"

It seems that many guys would (me too) that 4.09 final should be let clean and unmodded..... but it is sure that need polite and civilized dialog, not flamming as seen everywhere...... :rolleyes:

I am allready convinced, but, peoples need to speak and not to entranchend each side in his own bunker.....

actually my logic is impecable zap it's your's that needs a major tunup bud-dy. Cheating is cheating no matter what devices you use to accompolish it...

an anology. You are taking a test and you cheat by first writing the answers on a small paper and hide it in your shoe which you use during the test. Another person HACKS the schools computer and rewrites his test score to show an "a" What is the difference?

apparentky your the person that needs a stranger to point out your arguments logical fallacies..

One can cheat whatever way one wants and apparently there is a boatload of ways to cheat ALREADY.

Cheating is still cheating......

uf_josse,

thx for the explanation.

crazy-ivan a couple of weeks ago said something indicating that increasing/decreasing the weapons effect wasnt as simple as only editing the weapons files, but needed to be balanced with individual plane damage models (ivan, correct me if i am wrong)

is that something you take into account ?

and lastly, some weapons problems like .50 cal issues we have been waiting a long time to get fixed, and since oleg stated he isnt fixing problems in 1946 anymore, can you make those fixed weapons profiles available to oleg for inclusion in the final 4.09 update ?

oleg can then let his own people do some brief tests to confirm the "fix" is working realistically, which shouldnt take them much time if you have done all the hard work already.

Yes, it is a great prob and it is clear that much parameters must be taken in account, surely more as i am able to do.... so, i test much and more with a set of "natural ennemies"......

Clearly, no interest to test 0.50 on IL2....... but, i had two plane sets like pacific (zéro, ki61, betty, ki84 and so on) and one for western front (me109, fw, ju88....) and i try to compare my datas and values with ww2 guncams..... and...... result is not so far at them.......

For breda, i used spit, hurri, tomahawks and I16, IL2, lagg3......

I have not modified DM of the planes, because it is not simple and actually too complex for me..... and i know that we can see P51 chasing IL2 on HL but, no interest for me . :rolleyes:

My work is surely not perfect, far of that, but it is the best i can do.... i don't think that Oleg can be interested by my work..... :-P he has another things in sight, and don't care, IMHO on weaponry prob in IL2....


All my work is transparent for those that want to know what i do....

Fianlly, my best test is when testers give me an opinion of what they saw in game, comparated to what they saw in documents...... and when they find no great difference....

That's actually pretty interesting work and by far the best I've seen/read. I wish we could get stuff like that standardized so it wasn't coming from 200 different people and everyone could have the same thing.