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I dont know where i read it , but it said that a single burst of cannon fire from a ME109 could down a B17

Quote:

Originally Posted by guiltyspark (Post 81592)

I dont know where i read it , but it said that a single burst of cannon fire from a ME109 could down a B17

Likely.
There is a statistics about WW2 planes available.
I don't remember exactly, but in average it took no more 2 bursts from less than 100 meters to get almost any plane (without heavy armour at least, such as IL-2) down.
The real problems were: accuracy of those bursts and get on a shooting distance without being shot.

As an illustration.
One day, someone (it was in Britain, afair) discovered, that most (almost all) planes were repaired from wins and (much less) fuselage damage.
Not pilot, wing control, or engine. Mostly - wings.
And they almost started a project of improving wings armour! Until someone, discovered, that all repaired planes were actually returned to base planes.

Good (short) burst from even machine guns from small distance to plane's engine or pilot - very likely will destroy plane.
If it is cannon - you can destroy even wing (not talking that distance increasing).

The Me109E relied heavily on its cannon armament, 2 x 20mm cannon in each wing, secondary armament was 2 x 7.92mm machine guns above the engine. The ammunition for the 109E's cannons was limited to only 60 rounds per gun - so the pilot needed to be accurate to make his rounds count, obviously a hit by a cannon shell was more devastating than the .303 browning bullet fired by the 8-gun spits and hurricanes, but the respective total armaments of the 109 and the Spit pretty much balanced each other at the time.

Anton, I don't want to labour this point for much longer as I very much respect the work you and your colleagues have put in bringing this sim to the console market , and believe you me I'll be spending many as many hours in the Fw-190 as the Spitfire variants, but is there any chance of the Spit Mk1 being added as a DLC in the future ? A Battle of Britain campaign really needs the right key aircraft ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton Yudintsev (Post 81623)

It is possible. :)

Good stuff, I'll take that as a glimmer of hope

thankyou ;)

Thanks, Anton. I can understand, from a gaming standpoint, the choices you have made. However, I agree with Skii. I would like the option of flying the correct period aircraft.

A Spitfire Mk I and Hurricane Mk I would be very welcome, either in an expansion pack or as DLC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skii (Post 81612)

The armaments themselves weren't exactly balanced, as you say, the cannons had very little ammunition. It might give the Bf 109 an advantage against the first fighter that it shoots at, but as soon as they run out of those 120 rounds, they'd be at a pretty big disadvantage against further aircraft with only 2 small machine guns.

If their positions had been reversed, imagine how long it would have taken Bf 109s with no cannon ammo left to shoot down even small bombers like the He 111, with only the two small machine guns.

Then again, they had some other advantages, like the fuel injecting and what not. My point is that not all of these factors can be represented accurately in a game.

yep gran turismo graphics

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton Yudintsev (Post 81565)

Thanks for support - and you are right in most of your suggestions, including the one about time machine.
It is literally impossible to reproduce some of a differences between planes.
For example, in Mig plane, if plane goes to nose-diving canopy blocked, and pilot wasn't able to bail out, leading to death. That's why they flew with canopy opened, so the speed was lower, but it was safer, so texhnical limit wasn't achieved.
La-5 has an awful exhausting, and the temperature was 55-60 degrees (celsium) - making maneuvering harder for pilot. How it can be reproduced in the game?
I am not planes specialist, neither historical consultant, not British, and not responsible for planes in any aspect. Actually, I am not even PM of a project. But we are working with historical consultants, and if team have chosen one or other modification (even if it was actually unpopular, rare, or has some obvious disadvantages which were omitted) - than they had reasons for doing that.
The game, even flight sim game, is NOT encyclopedia by any means. It has to provide fun. If one plane is obviously 100% worser than all other planes in all realism settings and all multiplayer mode, controlling by AI or even novice players - than probably this plane should be replaced with its better modification, especially if we need this plane for specific campaign.

Even educational and documentary(!) films, have some certain mistakes, and nobody complains about that.
Most famous 'Battle for Britain' or 'Attack on Pearl Harbour', which are feature films, have a lot of mistakes - and still are great movies.

Sorry for being so lengthy, but it was one of our main headache - how much close to reality should we stay.
Sales and ratings willl show were we right :)

I understand what you are saying Anton, and I am not trying to be negative, as I understand that both the spit and hurricane models in game came during the latter half of the BoB. However, having the correct models would really make this game that much more realistic; i mean, it is a simulation ;)
On the other hand, as you said, the historical consultants must have had a reason for including whatever models they did. In my opinion, they just used the existing models from il-2 1946 but correct me if I am wrong :grin:

At the end of the day, i know you will do a superb job, but I just wanted to bring this to your attention. Maybe you could include the earlier model spit and hurris in a seperate dowload pack...although this would be a lot of work.

Sorry if I sound negative, really I am not. I just find that when doing a simulation, everything needs to be as realistic as possible. I would like to add that if you included the correct BoB skins for these aircraft, then that in my opinion would make this game something special. The skins that I have seen have been from the later period after the battle of britain, and so aren't historically correct. Such a change could have a dramatic effect ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marchochias (Post 81651)

The 109's had a stupid amount of ammo in their machine guns. They had a minutes worth or so. In my opinion, they could just spray and pray a bomber like this or-if they were good shots-focus it all on the engines ;)