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-   -   Mustang accident (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=26260)

Sternjaeger II 09-22-2011 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumpp (Post 339444)
The races simply will go back to being private events closed to the public. I think they need too.

After this incident and our lawsuit happy public, I don't want them there.

The owners and pilots can enjoy their airplanes without them.

I think we should ban racing cars too. I mean 83 people died in one wreck at LeMans. Speed and power of cars has increased considerably since then yet the tracks are just the same.

Time bomb waiting to happen.....
yup, same goes with rally races.

I personally don't like what they do at Reno, but hey, it's their money and hobby, so let them be.
It's probably a matter of revenue anyway: F1 surely moves more money and sponsors, so "the show must go on" is an acceptable double standard.

But if every time we have an accident we have an accident we have to go through the "shall we ban it?", we're gonna end up in a state of control...

bongodriver 09-22-2011 11:08 AM
I blame the media, if a guy on the street just says 'hey, someoned died in x event', the response is 'oh dear thats sad......hey ho', but when the media get ahold of it and repeat it every 15 minutes with their classic 'spin' on things.......it's a wholr lot of a bigger deal.

winny 09-22-2011 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II (Post 339451)
But if every time we have an accident we have an accident we have to go through the "shall we ban it?", we're gonna end up in a state of control...
Are you sitting down? I agree with you :)

There are such things as freak accidents, you can't legislate for freak accidents or you end up with freak legislation. People die in accidents all the time. If it's a numbers thing then there's 55 people who died in farming accidents this year in the UK, let's ban farming. 650 peope were killed by falling down stairs or steps. Ban them quick!

It was a horrible accident. The truth is that if you attend Reno anually, you're more likley to die in a car crash in the same year than at the event.

mustang137 09-22-2011 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesehawk (Post 339384)
Ahhh, now I get it, I thought the trim tabs were like the little tabs adjusted on the ground to help the plane's trim in level flight, not the whole trim surface. Now I understand how such little damage did that.
Ahh, no. The tabs are small surfaces on the trailing edge of the elevators and are adjusted by the pilot using the elevator trim wheel in the cockpit.....At least that's how the standard Stang is setup. I have no idea if the trim system in racing A/C is different.

Adjusting the tab down causes the elevator to pitch the nose up etc.

mustang137 09-22-2011 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt (Post 338148)
According to a local news website the initial scenario goes something like this:

1) Trim tab gets separated while doing quite a bit of airspeed (some say as much as 450 knots). This alone means you get a sudden pitch-up motion due to the sudden absence of any nose down trim to keep the plane going straight at such a high speed.

2) On top of that, the connecting rod/wire between the two tabs is broken and the second trim tab on the other elevator is stuck in nose up trim.

3) As a result of the rapid pitch up, the pilot pulls about 9-10Gs and passes out.

4) Pilot can't regain control in time due to GLOC (G-induced loss of consciousness).

The short report then goes on to mention that a very similar event occurred in these races with another modified mustang back in 1998. In that case the pilot was also subjected to about 10Gs but was far luckier, he just woke up at an altitude of 9000ft and proceeded to recover and land normally.
If the standard P-51 trim system is still in use, then.....

Only one cable controls both left and right elevator trims (using cable drums). Therefore, if one trim tab fails, the other would not stick up or down but would more than likely move back inline with the trailing edge of the elevator. Max up deflection is 10deg with down being 25deg.

Also looks as if 1/3 of the L/H trim tab is still there?

Jabo2009 09-22-2011 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumpp (Post 339444)
The races simply will go back to being private events closed to the public. I think they need too.

After this incident and our lawsuit happy public, I don't want them there.

The owners and pilots can enjoy their airplanes without them.

I think we should ban racing cars too. I mean 83 people died in one wreck at LeMans. Speed and power of cars has increased considerably since then yet the tracks are just the same.

Time bomb waiting to happen.....

http://www.ewilkins.com/wilko/lemans.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBe_5HuKgjg
no offence meant, but your talking serious bullshit here...why should races be closed to public? everone goes there at his own risk...on every official FIA sancioned event you have signs with: "MOTORSPORT CAN BE DANGEROUS, ATTENDANCE AT YOUR OWN RISK" its even shown on your event ticket...same with airshows

safety measurements on todays airshows and motorsport events are at a very high level in the western world, but you cant avoid accidents by 100%... accidents happen and will happen, you only can reduce probabilty of people getting hurt or killed...

but saying these events should be banned generally is totally stupid...

let other have their hobby and passion...if u r afraid of getting hurt dont go there, as simple as that..

IamNotDavid 09-22-2011 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumpp (Post 339444)
I think we should ban racing cars too. I mean 83 people died in one wreck at LeMans. Speed and power of cars has increased considerably since then yet the tracks are just the same.

Time bomb waiting to happen.....
That LeMans crash was over 50 years ago. Many changes have been made to the cars and the tracks to make auto racing safer. However, it auto racing had the same safety record over the last 50 years as Reno, it would have been ended by now.

IamNotDavid 09-22-2011 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by winny (Post 339470)
It was a horrible accident. The truth is that if you attend Reno anually, you're more likley to die in a car crash in the same year than at the event.
How are you calculating those odds? There are 2 pilot deaths for every 5 Reno shows. It was inevitable that an aircraft would eventually hit the crowd.

IamNotDavid 09-22-2011 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bongodriver (Post 339455)
I blame the media, if a guy on the street just says 'hey, someoned died in x event', the response is 'oh dear thats sad......hey ho', but when the media get ahold of it and repeat it every 15 minutes with their classic 'spin' on things.......it's a wholr lot of a bigger deal.
It's not the media's fault that 2 pilots die for every 5 Reno events.

winny 09-22-2011 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamNotDavid (Post 339498)
How are you calculating those odds? There are 2 pilot deaths for every 5 Reno shows. It was inevitable that an aircraft would eventually hit the crowd.
If I went to Reno the odds of me dying there are less than they are for me dying in the same year from a car crash, statistically, as a spectator.

200,000 people attended reno over the week, 11 died.

That's 11 out of 200,000 or 1 death for every 18,200 people there, roughly. The fatalities for road accidents in the USA for 2009 was 11 for every 100,000 people in the population or 1 death for every 9,100 people. Nearly twice the odds.

That's how I calculated. You have to be at Reno to die at Reno, 199,989 people who were there didn't die there this year. You can't ignore them.


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