The RAE shows better turn radius in this chart. The Spitfire always has a better turn radius than the Bf-109.

Radius being just one parameter of turn performance and not the most important either.

Not specifically. It appears to be RAM power because the chart list's power in flight.

Exactly, once the parameters are input, the math does it's magic.

Clmax is also depend of engine power. Prop wash adds considerable lift due to the higher speed of airflow.

Looking RAE turn charts for 109 and Spitfire there is discribtion:
" Assumed values for Clmax at full throttle ".

So Clmax in RAE charts is not for landing configuration or stall speed ( engine idle) but assumed for full engine power which of course is needed in sustained turn rate.

I'm not Ivan but they are obviously power on clmax.

Edit: Kwiatek is right, it is stated on the chart in plain text.

Flaps... ;)

True, if the aircraft are BOTH at the same speed (according to that chart) , the spitfire will have less distance to travel, and thus will turn faster, in every case.

I think I can convert the figures to turn rate fairly easily... Then we can see, using that very ddata, the combinations of speeds at which the two have varying turn speeds right?
See here, http://s13.postimage.org/4fo4e806f/turns_comparison.jpg

According to that, Provided the sptfire remains between 200kph and 370kph TAS, the 109 can never out turn it.

Wow....maths really is magic........it made Crumpp dissapear.

"Normal" shld stand for standard atmospheric value. The HP being a function of the air density, the Power have to be converted to the reference to be absolutely rigorous.

Note that standards varies (and still does) from one country to another.

ISO being 0°C and 1013mbar - CFM around 15°C etc..

Note also that if this is the case, there might be some error in the the conversion.

They are not at the same speed or angle of bank!

They don't match CLmax power on for either type. In otherwords, a bad assumption.

http://kurfurst.org/Tactical_trials/...ls/Morgan.html

I think you are right.

Doesn't matter if they are not at the same angle of bank, it's almost entirely the point that the spitfire was able to maintain level and sustained turns at a higher angle of bank than the 109.....kinda the key to a tighter turn don't you think? and in any case the Spit is achieving the tighter turn at higher speed than the 109 too.


I'd still rather accept the professionals theory on it opposed to yours....no offence.


Not sure why you quoted a snippet from a 'stalling' Cl max trial.