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-   -   Cliffs of Dover, a Year Later (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=30683)

Sutts 03-26-2012 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6S.Tamat (Post 403071)
do you have an idea of how complex is to manage only the facial expressions of a so big amount of characters?

I provided more similar examples, but talking about complexity it is not true that a flight simulator is more complex; more physic calculations is not meaning more complex. IMHO.


If you were a programmer you'd know that the same routine would be used for all the characters in the game with different data plugged in. More facial expressions is not meaning more complex.

6S.Manu 03-26-2012 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Hayward (Post 403072)
Sometimes you can optimize code by making small changes. Sometimes it requires big changes. It's not always possible to know that you made bad choices early in the design process.

Of course but you recognize those BIG problems during the testing of the Alpha version... not at release!

Insuber 03-26-2012 05:00 PM

You can continue this discussion forever, because there is no common measure of the "complexity" of a game. As Tamat says, the complexity of a sim is a matter of faith. And a physical FM can be less complex than a parametric FM.

David Hayward 03-26-2012 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu (Post 403078)
Of course but you recognize those BIG problems during the testing of the Alpha version... not at release!

Not if you run out of time and money and have no choice but to release. Then you release anyways and hope that you can fix it after release.

Does that situation sound familiar?

6S.Manu 03-26-2012 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Hayward (Post 403080)
Not if you run out of time and money and have no choice but to release. Then you release anyways and hope that you can fix it after release.

Does that situation sound familiar?

I can't disagree with you here but you said:
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Hayward (Post 402841)
Complicated applications are never optimized at initial release. How long have you been programming?

So is every complicated application released because of these issues? :-|

I don't think so.

d.burnette 03-26-2012 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu (Post 403078)
Of course but you recognize those BIG problems during the testing of the Alpha version... not at release!

I tell you guys I always think of one thing in anything that might "bug" me, and I truly always try at least to live by it.

Never sweat the "small stuff", don't sweat the " stuff you cannot control", never look back because " you can't change a dang thing that has already occured".
The only thing I myself can do, from my perspective, is control " how I react" to these things as they occur - and I try to keep the above in mind when I do.

It is amazing when things happen to us, that are really big - like health issues, major surgeries, or worse,or to our loved ones - how are perceptions on the thing we once thought of how very important they were, all of a sudden - they really were not and meant very little.

Just sharing my newbie wisdom of the day...
:)

Have fun!

6S.Tamat 03-26-2012 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sutts (Post 403073)
If you were a programmer you'd know that the same routine would be used for all the characters in the game with different data plugged in. More facial expressions is not meaning more complex.

You need to program the behaviour of the facial expressions with all the different faces also of different races, I am not a professional programmer, but talking about CG effects what you explain to be simple or routine was one of the more complex problems that the movie avatar had. Gaming industry is different obviously, but again complexity is not only something that you can analyse on the final code only..

6S.Manu 03-26-2012 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insuber (Post 403079)
You can continue this discussion forever, because there is no common measure of the "complexity" of a game. As Tamat says, the complexity of a sim is a matter of faith. And a physical FM can be less complex than a parametric FM.

Infact after the release I was scared about the CloD stage of development since the quantity of evident bugs... just think about at the ones that you don't see (FM, DM ect).

IMO the developer should build SDKs just to test those engines, initially to debug the engine itself and of course finally to tweak the plane's data.

adonys 03-26-2012 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sutts (Post 403070)
Sorry, but neither of those are anywhere near as complex as CloD. Nice character animation, sure, but a far stretch from modelling land sea and air and all the complexity and physics of a whole bunch of WWII aircraft and weapons systems.

You'll be telling me they model the ballistics of their pistols next.

Really? and you know that from.. where?

Do you have ANY idea at all what it means to code a game like Skyrim, and a game like IL2CoD? What game systems are involved in those? How a game engine is working at all? And I am not talking about the graphics/render engine, but about the game engine..

Obviously, you don't, otherwise you would have not mentioned that.

Skyrim has a HUGE world. HUGE! And the Editor.. the TES Creator only in itself is more complex than the whole IL2CoD! Mafia II has physics and damage modelling of cars and weapons. And guess what? It also has collision, on all that HUGE world of it.

Want some other examples? Assassin's Creed games.. also with HUGE worlds, hundreds of buildings, lots of details, collision, hundreds of characters, and so on. Do you know how many animations had the system they've developed for AC1? ANY idea at all? I'll tell you: 10000 animations. Now come and tell me that Il2CoD is more complex than a game that has an animation system for the main character which manages and blends them as beautifully and seamlessly as AC does.. and I'll tell you you never worked on developing games and you don't have any idea what you're talking about!

Don't talk about thing you don't know.. just because you think, I assume from what you "see", that IL2CoD is more complex than those games, it doesn't make it so!

nearmiss 03-26-2012 05:32 PM

Air combat simulators are very complex.

Every bullet fired has plotted trajectory, every aircraft in the scenario is flying and shooting.

Everything moving has to be accounted for when you compare games.

As long as you see the movement that is all being plotted.

The graphics are doing their thing as well on every moving and non-moving object in the scenario.


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