to make the dots bigger ;)






most FPS's are user altered to run @ 90 deg FoV and in those games running a high FoV is considered a cheat... altering the Fov for zoom, is to "assume" a zoom bearing in mind the technical limitations of monitors.


Field of View is associated with magnification yes, I've never denied that, however, they are not same thing as you claimed earlier.

Ok tell me you're just being an ass now!

But seriously, the dots get harder to see at smaller fovs because of the way they work - they remain the same size in terms of pixels, except now they are further apart and harder to see. Try it!

The main reason you'd want to use a 1:1 view is not to make dots bigger, but to actually FOREGO (mostly) the need for dots!

By making the apparent size of distant aircraft as close to reality as possible, they disappear at the appropriate distance, meaning that dots are no longer necessary.

Remember, dots are artificial rendering modifications introduced by 1C to make spotting aircraft at long distances possible at larger fovs (70/90) - to simulate a real pilot's spotting ability.

Cheat is a relative term and I don't want to discuss that. Let's put it this way - if a modification provides an advantage to a small number of players (which wider fovs in FPS's do) in a competitive environment and it is not officially sanctioned for whatever reason, it is a cheat. It could STILL be realistic you know - but be considered a cheat.

In IL2 CLoD, the difference is that fov facilities are provided and officially sanctioned so its not a cheat.

When it comes to zoom in games though, FOV is what is used to zoom the view by developers, whether we are talking about binoculars, telescopes etc. Thats just a fact

I know its hard to admit, but what I said was true. Let's go back to what I said;
As you can see, what I said was true - the way 'FOV' in games is used to magnify and the way angle of view in binoculars is used to magnify works on the same principles.

What you've said, by contrast, is things like this;
Which is just completely wrong - FOV is USED to create 'binoculars' in games!


By the way, FOV is very dependent on how far you sit from your monitor and how big it is, and we are by no means helpless as players when it comes to improving our visual acuity. Remember this formula?

FOV = ((((screenwidth/viewer distance)/2)tan-1)2)

Depending on how large your monitor is and particularly how close you sit to your monitor, the 1:1 (or 'optically correct' according to valve) FOV changes a lot!

Lets use my own monitor as an example. My monitor is a 22" CRT that is 41 cm wide on its viewable area (thats screenwidth). So let's see what my 1:1 (ie, optically correct FOV where objects appear roughly as large in terms of apparent size/angular size as in reality) is for various viewing distances:

1 metre - 1:1 FOV = 23 degrees
90 cm - 1:1 FOV = 25 degrees
80 cm - 1:1 FOV = 28 degrees
70 cm - 1:1 FOV = 32 degrees
60 cm - 1:1 FOV = 37 degrees
50 cm - 1:1 FOV = 44 degrees
40 cm - 1:1 FOV = 54 degrees
30 cm - 1:1 FOV = 68 degrees
20 cm - 1:1 FOV = 91 degrees

Notice the fov's I have highlighted. These are the distances at which the relevant FOV appears as near to reality as possible given my existing monitor. If I sit 80cm away, then at 30 fov objects appear roughly as large (and thus easy to spot) as in reality. If I sit 30 cm away, then at 70 fov objects appear roughly as large as in reality. If I sit at an eye-crushing 20cm, then at 90 fov objects appear roughly as large as in reality. Note that 'dots' are more visible at 70/90 fov, and if I sit very close, spotting them will probably be too easy. Notice also how much the 1:1 FOV changes based on just viewing distance! A larger monitor would also have a big effect.

Now remember - 1:1 FOV is the FOV setting at which individual objects on the screen APPEAR ROUGHLY AS LARGE TO OUR EYE AS IN REALITY. Anytime I go BELOW the 1:1 FOV for any given setting - for example, if I am sitting 50 cm away from the monitor and switch to 30 FOV - I am actually MAGNIFYING objects compared to reality, and making more detail visible than a real pilot could see!

So yes, its very possible to gain a large advantage over other players just by moving closer to your monitor, let alone using a larger monitor! And this is not just about 30 FOV - its the same for ANY fov setting - just by moving closer, my 'dots' are indeed getting bigger ;) Are you going to stop moving closer to your monitor when you fly online? Would you like to prevent others from doing the same?

now you're just being plain rude (I'll bet you vote Labor too ;) )


not according to what you said here





with regard to the limits of current monitor technology and keeping in with the realism


go wider with FPS and narrower with combat flight sims... if its sounds like and walks like, a duck ~


because of the limitions of computer gaming/ monitors... notice how pupil exit size isn't taken into account




FoV is associated with magnification... it is not, however the same thing

Look down a tube with one eye, what happens?






*and an edit for the incessant edits...

by physically moving closer to the monitor, the dots are getting bigger?
Slightly bigger yes, but in reality all that is achieved is a clearer definition and perhaps eye damage.

and "let alone using a larger monitor"? well that is part of your problem right there ;) (which was taken care of by the developers regarding using real big monitors as a cheat; as in an unfair advantage online)

Well you were being an ass, weren't you? You know dots get smaller with lower fovs but you still insist on saying it. I'm not talking about your intellectual capacity (though I have my doubts given you still don't get it after 10 pages) and political choices, they are your own concern - I am simply describing how you are choosing to behave (like an ass).

Btw, I don't vote Labour. Stereotypes ey!

You do realise your Field of View does not change when you look down a tube with one eye right? Most of it is simply filled by the tube ;)

It's important to seperate what you see with what is happening.

Lol what you think they are magic? They are just a bunch of pixels that don't even account for FOV! They don't magically give you the most realistic spotting experience you can get.

Garbage. FOV is a rendering property and has nothing to do with the limitations of computer gaming and monitors. The CHOICE of FOV does - but not FOV itself.

If everybody suddenly had wraparound monitors, games could suddenly use much wider fovs. But they would still need to use FOV to zoom in.

Remember also that FOV doesnt have to be all or nothing. Modern games can have a general view with one fov and a display within that (like say a sniper scope) that actually renders part of the scene at a different FOV. But FOV is what is being used, period.

In case we ever doubted you are a grating, unpleasant personality that looks for people to blame, you make it clear once more. You must have a very bitter life.

Are you not doing well online? Feel the need to blame the game's sanctioning for fov changes? Well thats too bad. 1C officially sanctions it so its not a cheat. It also happens to make dots harder to spot although it is very useful in other ways, and widely used.

Anyway, I thought you were against whining? What makes you different?

You're a bit slow aren't you :)

Let me repeat once more. In practice and my testing, the dots are actually harder to spot in 30 fov. Try it. You'll see :)

Of course!

No, MUCH bigger! At least 4 times larger. That is also what 'clearer definition' means - each pixel on the monitor is much larger, and occupies more space on your retina, so it is much easier to tell them apart (and the details they represent).

I agree on the eye damage though. Never said it was practical - just possible.:grin:

Aren't you using a 22" CRT also?

A larger monitor can, in the strictest sense of the word, be an unfair advantage. If there were an IL2 professional tournament (in like a tournament hall or something), things like this would need be standardised.

But I am not against people using larger monitors of course! A larger monitor is nicer to look at and covers more of your field of view (while still sitting a decent distance from it) which is ultimately more realistic and comfortable.

As for the developers addressing this. I don't know what you are talking about - but I reckon the developers should have no business telling people what monitors to use online. If I had a wraparound, 360 degree view monitor handy, i'd want Cliffs of Dover to support it no matter what certain online knobs thought about it.

which translates as "make the dots bigger"

Boy, you really didn't do well in school, did you? I bet corporal punishment was banned when you were a kid. Too bad.

The dots ONLY means the high contrast pixels that appear instead of aircraft at long distances.

And those don't get any bigger. Go on. Try it and prove me wrong!

IF it looks like an ass, smells like an ass and talks like an ass..


Anyway, you've had your fair chance. You want to stay ignorant? Your choice.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=6909

wot?? and no three minute warning? spin it around all you want....





which translates as "make the dots bigger"

Clearly you just don't understand any of this topic. I expect you are intellectually challenged. Still, I'll post a clarification;

He is talking about rendering distances for LODs and objects. Mostly ground objects, as aircraft are already rendered very far out or as dots.

Again, talking about ground objects. Aircraft already have the system in place.

The decision on how far to render ground objects also depends on performance and FPS hit on middle range systems and how far these objects can be seen comes down to factors other than LOD (including screen resolution).

Given the last point, you can't have a LOD system that is switched off on medium systems and does not render objects at long distance, but does on high end systems because of fair gameplay. This is about FPS and performance hits, not spotting and dots.

Justifying the position above, medium system players should be able to have access to the same LOD rendering system for ground objects as power users and any ground object dot system should scale across resolutions to ensure fair gameplay and to prevent the community turning on players using powerful pc's. This is all meant to justify why the developers are taking their time developing a lod system for ground objects.

They like the way dots and other aspects of the graphics and gameplay systems are consistent across low spec and high spec PC's and intend to continue to develop in this way.

Note that they do not say anything about large monitors or aircraft dots.

How old are you?

keep up the denigrations, son...
and according to you, I would be 7. what's your next one, perhaps something about special needs?


was the question to which O.M. responded... "greater resolution" is in reference to larger monitors (you needed to be there at the time ;)









Which I suggested before, along with a penalty for in cockpit binocular use. Penalty being one hand off the stick or off the throttle (adding an exit pupil penalty as well) coded in.