Originally Posted by Bearcat (Post 491330)

~ This place is a cesspool .. an asylum run by the inmates.. If UBI was a Zoo then this place is a jungle where the clowns with the biggest mouths rule the roost.

Originally Posted by Bearcat (Post 492278)

Please.. what knife.. Grow up.

First off the fact that I am a mod else where has absolutely NOTHING to do with my opinion of the way this place is run, which is based solely on the way that I have been treated here just by virtue of showing my face and the way that I have seen others treated with no response from the moderators at all that I could see. The fact that it has been brought up in just about every thread that I have posted in but only here on these boards says a lot about just who this is an issue for. It certainly has no bearing on me or my posts here.. but everyone here who insults me seems to have an issue with it.. as if I have been sent by the enemy to spy.. on this now dead product with a bunch of mean spirited, nasty, immature fans who have big internet cajones and little else .. certainly no common sense to listen to a logical debate.. as if my mere presence will cause some kind of chaos in the CoDforce.. Please.. Get over yourselves.. I came here because I paid my hard earned money for this sim and had to wait YEARS before I could even run it.. which was cool with me .. but having to deal with the likes of some of the folks who post here now that I can finally run it has been the biggest shock.. That was more of a disappointment to me than not being able to run the sim for over a year.. because in spite of all the warnings I got about this place I really was not expecting this. Perhaps if CoD was still active.. if the 1C777 merger had never happened it would be different.. but that was not my doing. I had nothing to do with it and I moderate on the 1C777 boards because of my passion for IL2 and simming.. I do not have and never had any designs on trashing Cod, gloating about Cod, or any such notion and the fact that I hold quite a few people on this board in utter and complete contempt has nothing to do with anything other than the way that the continually try to brow beta anyone and everyone who disagrees with them .. There is only one mod here that I have seen who is worth the name .. and that is all I will say about my opinion of the mods here.

I guess since you saw that I changed my avatar and sig pic that I was "back" so you'd drop in here and take another swipe but in truth I never left.. I just refuse to engage in a battle of wits with paranoid unarmed men who have nothing better to do with their time than try to bully and browbeat people who disagree with them about a piece of friggin software.

As I said I had heard stuff about this place but I never experienced it first hand, because the IL2 boards are not like the CoD boards, until I finally decided to spend more time over here because I wanted to try to give CoD a real go now that I can run it and where else to go to get the 411 on the sim than the official site right? I was not expecting what I did get. It is truly shameful the way this place has been allowed to become..... People who paid for CoD .. or IL2 for that matter have lifetime bans from here because of some nonsense that happened on this forum. That is why even at UBI when I was moderating there I was always dead set against lifetime bans unless it was an absolute clear cut case and I never found one that I felt warranted it. Over here some of these mods let their personal feelings for CoD get in the way too much. I have had my wife insulted.. my character insulted.. and not just me but so so many others, too many others as well and in many cases it was just because they were not happy with the product they bought.. and the truth of the matter is that CoD WAS a POS when it was released for most of the people who bought it..

I got all this flak simply because the new forum exists, and the facts that 1) I moderate there 2) CoD was canned and 3) BoS is coming.. I have very little if any history on the CoD boards .. I may have posted here a few times over the years because I am a forum hound.. but because I could not get CoD to run until this past September when I upgraded.. and mind you.. I got my DDL from UBI within the first two weeks of the sim's release.. I knew I couldn't run it but I wanted to support the sim.. so you do what you can, but I shied away from here because I couldn't run the sim so what could I do ? I just enjoyed IL2 till I could. Yet all I have gotten here from this place is BS.. insults and hassles from too many members of this board. One is too many as far as IO am concerned. Some of these same people would not tolerate a guest in their home being treated the way some folks here are on a daily basis with not even so much as "a knock it off guys" from the mods here. I have been told that I broke out my knee pads.. Now of course that statement can insinuate any number of things .. from getting on my knees to worship to more.. physical acts.. but none of the insinuations are flattering ... yet that is allowed here.. It is shameful. You forget that this is not YOUR forum .. this forum is here for customers of 1C.. Customers like you and I both ... and I have done nothing to warrant the treatment that I have received just by showing up. I have seen others treated in similar fashion.. called liars.. spys.. Jason's minions.. all kinds of condescending derogatory references... told to just go away.. as if the people here owned these boards and had the right to send 1C customers packing.. and the mods here do nothing.

If my feeling that way sounds arrogant and pompus to you then so be it.. but I stand by it. I also stand by everything I said in the post that prompted your response. If I were a paying customer who just bought CoD because I loved flight sims and decided what the he@ll I'll give it a shot even if the reviews are bad.. because it's IL2 and I heard that sim was great... I would show up here and wonder if I just threw my money away. You people act as if the critics of IL2 had the numbers or the power to destroy the sim. That is ridiculous.. Even if the most vocal and prolific critics numbered in the hundreds.. several hundreds.. they would have far less impact nationally that you assume. Look at te critics of IL2.. they numbered in the hundreds.. the high hundreds.. There were die hard CFS fans who acted just like you about CFS .. some of them are just now getting into IL2.. 7 years ago their numbers were even greater..if you consider the FA/Warbirds/AH/CFS crowds.. but that did not stop the sales of IL2.. It grew.. because it was a good product warts and all .. The notion that somehow CoD's critics killed it .. and that that justifies their abuse is a foolish and narrow indeed notion. At best all they did was ofend some folks on these boards but the death of CoD lay solely in the hands of the developers and marketers who built it and marketed it so some of you need to stop abusing newcomers to this board as if the did something to you personally .. like killed your dog or slapped your mother or copped a feel off of your wife..

I know of course that the usual clods will pop up here and trash everything I said with their usual brilliant insight and commentary.. and that's cool.. I expect it .. I always did find it interesting though that the the most ardent fans of this sim preferred the term CloD over CoD... I never understood that. until I came here.

Originally Posted by Bearcat (Post 492278)

. ..

.. I always did find it interesting though that the the most ardent fans of this sim preferred the term CloD over CoD... I never understood that. until I came here.

Originally Posted by MB_Avro_UK (Post 492652)

Same ol' Bearcat:rolleyes:

You've been used to being a protected species on the old il2 Forum. But here you're not. Get used to it. Every time you try to throw your digital weight around here, I will be here to respond.

That was a big post you made. Hurting?

Yawn......


Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Originally Posted by startrekmike (Post 492659)

I have a feeling that this thread will vanish, in fact, I hope it does.

I don't get it, we are all here for the same thing and yet there always seems to be a thread or two running on this board that continues the same circular arguments, posturing and finger pointing.

Well, lets hope that by the time I post this, the mods will have deleted this one also, it has gotten out of control, personal opinions about products are one thing, belittling and dividing the player base is another.

How long has this kind of stuff been going on here? How long can it continue?

Originally Posted by SlipBall (Post 492655)

I think most did to differentiate from Call of Duty

Originally Posted by wiki

Reeducation camp (Vietnamese: trại học tập cải tạo) is the official title given to the prison camps operated by the government of Vietnam following the end of the Vietnam War. In such "reeducation camps", the government imprisoned several hundred thousand former military officers and government workers from the former regime of South Vietnam. Reeducation as it was implemented in Vietnam was seen as both a means of revenge and a sophisticated technique of repression and indoctrination, which developed for several years in the North and was extended to the South following the 1975 North Vietnam takeover.[citation needed]

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV (Post 492678)

I'm just as dismayed by the demise of Cliffs' as anybody else, but one upshot of the entire debacle is that we might one day be able to put this place behind us.

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger (Post 492679)

You can do that any time you want? It's not as though your being held here against your will.

Originally Posted by MB_Avro_UK (Post 492652)

Same ol' Bearcat:rolleyes:
You've been used to being a protected species on the old il2 Forum. But here you're not. Get used to it. Every time you try to throw your digital weight around here, I will be here to respond.
That was a big post you made. Hurting?
Yawn......
Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV (Post 492678)

So far the new il-2 forum has been a pleasant place to visit. I hope the more rigorous moderation will continue and that it will help re-educate the community and teach them to conduct themselves better. I don't know why the moderation here has been so very poor for so many years. Whether it was laziness, personal agendas, or whether they just weren't sophisticated enough to make good decisions. Whatever the reason, there is ample evidence to show that they have failed in their duties. The degree of bullying, slander and relentless goading that goes on daily here is truly shameful. The forum seems to bring out the worst in every personality, and not a single one of us is free of blame for that. I'm just as dismayed by the demise of Cliffs' as anybody else, but one upshot of the entire debacle is that we might one day be able to put this place behind us.

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV (Post 492678)

'bullying, slander and relentless goading',

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV (Post 492678)

So far the new il-2 forum has been a pleasant place to visit. I hope the more rigorous moderation will continue and that it will help re-educate the community and teach them to conduct themselves better.

Originally Posted by kendo65 (Post 492838)

When logic doesn't work and when they won't stop trying to shove you around it is finally time to start pushing back in the same manner they use...
or walk away completely...something that may yet be the best idea.

Originally Posted by Bearcat (Post 492685)

Actually.. and I don't want this to sound arrogant because I do not mean it that way at all.. but I am not used to being protected.. I am used to being respected in cyberspace and in the real world.... and that is not because I am special or anything at all like that but on most forums that I frequent and during the course of my day, for the most part I am treated with the same courtesy and respect that I try to give others... Here for some reason, it is different.. and that most likely solely because I happen to mod elsewhere and actually not just elsewhere .. but in the pit of flight sim Babylon itself!! LMAO.... If I were not a moderator on IL2 I am pretty certain I would not be getting some of this flak .. but since I am a mod there I must somehow be some kind of shady guy here to subvert this forum as a spy succumbing to the Jedi mindtricks of the Sith Lord Jason Williams.. ROFLMAO!!

What you fail to realizes is that from my perspective.. I have no "digital weight" to throw around ... here or elsewhere.

If there is one lesson I learned very well being a moderator at UBI for as long as I was it is that all this internet "weight" you speak of is an illusion. It is meaningless.. it comes and it goes.. and it has no bearing on who you are .. unless you "toss it around" as you say.. in a way that signifies that you have no respect for others and thereby no self respect.. I serve on the IL2 boards because as I said in another thread.. I was raised to kick in.. I was raised to contribute and serve where you can in the capacity that you can.. and I was raised to pay your way.. and if someone else pays your way .. then that means you have to pay someone else's way.. Paying it forward is a rule I try to live by.. So I am glad to be able to get in on the ground floor engaging in a hobby that I have a great deal of passion for and get a great deal of pleasure from and continue to be in a position to keep my ear to the ground and look forward to what's coming down the pike. I have wanted to get to the next level for a long time.. and so far nothing has manged to scratch that itch.. Hopefully that will change in 12-23 months .. give or take..

.. and as for you "being here to respond" ... LOL.. well OK Avro.. You go right on and respond however you like .. for what it is worth.. I was taken aback by my initial reception here .. but now that I know the rules.. I can play.. but I will not get into a battle of wits with unarmed men. You go right on and protect this place from me and my evil machinations.. As I said in another thread... I have a wife of 24 years going through menopause, I have 7 kids and 8 grandkids.. There is NOTHING that you or anyone else on this forum or anywhere else can say or do to shake me.. ESPECIALLY not here.. now that I know what I am dealing with... soo you go on and keep watch there Officer Dibble.. I'm going to go look for some pikinik baskets..

Oh and thank you for your compliment on my post.. I do aim to please.

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider (Post 492839)

There is this "re-educate" thing again...
I don't know what it is with people and their insistence that others must be re-educated (or made to see the one point of view), as the very worst countries on Earth all had re-education on their books. How, some say, the more we forget the past, the more we are doomed to repeat that past.

There was this country in central Europe which tried it pre and during WWII along with another small country to the south, there was another larger country, to the east, which tried it a few decades earlier whilst going through a revolution. Someone mentioned a S.E.Asian country bunging it on in the 70's... well there was another country to the west of that one which also did it, and opened up entire fields for the end result. To the north of those two is another large country trying it on again today.
A certain 'church' also tried it a couple of centuries ago, and man did they have the tools to do it with! As well, there is another "church" also trying it on today.

The mindset of "making" people see only the one point of view IS WRONG!

the aim of that tactic is to have "dissenters" walk away

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider (Post 492844)

define: "In a sensible manner" for us, if you would please Fjordmonkey, as you mean it to be

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider (Post 492844)

also, if you would, please define: "free speech"

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider (Post 492844)

yes, people are very much entitled to have their point of view, as much as they are also entitled to not have that (another) point of view rammed down their throats... they are also entitled not to be called names.

Originally Posted by SlipBall (Post 492840)

Do you have any game questions, you seem to be here just to let off some steam :lol:

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider (Post 492847)

okay.....

"A sensible manner = a manner where people that may have vastly different points of view can still manage to discuss the good and bad sides of the coin from both sides in an adult fashion, without letting emotion bleed into it, without namecalling, without being attacked for having a different point of view than the other side.

How that be, when you consider some people to be "small-minded, foul-mouthed and frothing trolls"? doesn't that very premise negate your position?

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider (Post 492847)

I already have several different interpretations of what "free speech" is, Fjordmonkey. I was asking you for yours... but to save a lot of grief, I'll just cut the chase and offer "calling people names", just inhibits their right to free speech through intimidation.